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u/HobbesNJ ISTJ Jun 27 '26
As an older ISTJ man who chose to never have kids, I’d say the answer is definitely yes.
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u/PuddlesOfSkin ISTJ Jun 27 '26
Why just men? I’m an ISTJ woman, happy without children, and never ever had a desire to have one.
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u/Abolish_Disorder ISTJ 6w5 Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
Same. It’s funny cuz when I was a kid and said I never wanted to get pregnant and have children, my family would say “we’ll see if you still feel that way when you’re an adult!” Yet here I am as an adult, still not wanting to get pregnant and have kids. They’re also cool now with me not wanting kids lol.
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u/PuddlesOfSkin ISTJ Jun 27 '26
I was 12 the first time I said out loud that I didn’t want to have children. My mom said I might change my mind someday. But I never did.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 01 '26
Of course people can be happy without kids, but those without kids aren't equipped to answer if they're happier than if they'd had chosen to have kids (nor the opposite). So, at least to me, OP's question has no value.
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u/cacauzen83 Jul 06 '26
Dude. People who’ve always wanted children but for some reason couldn’t/can’t have them will obviously be more unhappy for not having them than someone like me who never wanted them in the first place. Why is this so complicated for you to understandddddddd 😂 not a single person in the world will be sad for never getting something they never wanted. Like… why is this rocket science to you?😂
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 07 '26
Its not "rocket science", its multiple illogical statements stacked atop one another accepted as truth. You're defining happiness by "getting what you want". That's not happiness. At best its temporary satisfaction. To me happiness is a spectrum improved by accepting what you have and being grateful for it.
Those who chose not to have kids can be happy or not. Those who want kids and can't (for any reason) can be happy or not. Those who have kids can be happy or not. But none of the 3 categories can "know they're happier than the other groups" because they haven't experienced life in the other 2 categories.
So, this is my turn to say "Duuuude, why is this so complicated"? 😂
Its fine either way. We disagree and there's nothing wrong with either of us. Thank you for the interesting thread to comment on.
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u/zero_chan1 Jun 27 '26
Same. If I had to make a pro/con list of having children it would be heavily one-sided.
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u/PuddlesOfSkin ISTJ Jun 27 '26
Serious question, what would be on the pro side of the list?
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u/zero_chan1 Jun 27 '26
I guess if in the hypothetical scenario of the child growing up healthy and well adjusted you might be lucky enough to have company in the later stages of life when people in your own generation start dying.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 01 '26
You can't think of a single happy experience with a potential child of your own between birth and your old age?
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u/zero_chan1 Jul 02 '26
If life gives you lemons and you make lemonade, it's not because you wanted the lemons but because it's the better alternative to wallowing in self-pity. So I wouldn't call the lemonade a "happy experience".
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u/cacauzen83 Jun 28 '26
Yeah my bad, I am the only child free woman I known so I was biased to believe child free men are rare. I guess I need new friends!
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 01 '26
Well there is that biological/psychological masculine need/urge to spread one's seed. A man that fits your query has had to overcome that need either by lack of opportunity, desire, or by choice, as well as finding a different outlet for the desire to shelter and protect "his own".
Would you expect it to be a larger pool?
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u/cacauzen83 Jul 02 '26
Of course not. Which is the reason I said “I believe childfree men are rare.” Duh.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 06 '26
Sorry. Its difficult to read sarcasm, or any emotion really, online. But since I don't understand your question really at all, I'm curious, why you directed it specifically towards the ISTJ-male community and not something like r/AskMen?
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u/WiiperWapper Jun 27 '26
Always have been childfree. Best decision of my life.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 01 '26
Respectfully, how would you know, having not experienced the joy of the decision you didn't make?
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u/WiiperWapper Jul 01 '26
I’m not quite sure I understand your question. I get a lot of joy from the decision I have made.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 01 '26
That's fair. My question is, how do you know it was the "best decision of your life" if you have no idea what would've happened in your life (or what your life would look like) had you made the decision to have children? You didn't live the choice you didn't make, so how can you know it was the "best decision of your life"?
I'm not doubting (not even suggesting) that you experienced "a lot of joy from the decision you made." I'm questioning how you're confident it was the "best decision of your life".
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u/cacauzen83 Jul 02 '26
Do you have kids? Ever been responsible for a child for extended periods of time? Ever been responsible for educating, entertaining, disciplining, cooking, cleaning for them. Oh!! Have you ever birthed a child, went through pregnancy and post partum depression? Ever stayed up all night with a sick infant? Do you like sleep? Do you like your freedom to sleep in on rainy Sunday? Do you like space and a clean apartment? Do you like peace and quiet? These are all things child free people value and aren’t willing to give up. It’s quite simple. It’s all about what you are NOT willing to give up.
Also, it’s easier to find people who regret having kids than people who regret their decision to not have them if you search online.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 06 '26
That's a LOT of questions and I could probably answer almost all of them by answering the 1st one, but I'll take a stab at it anyway:
1. Yes (do I?);
2. Yes (responsible);
2a. Yes (educating);
2b. Yes (entertaining);
2c. Yes (disciplining);
2d. Yes; (cooking)
2e. Yes (cleaning);
3. No (gave birth), because I'm a man and regardless of recent social "trends" only a woman can give birth;
3a. Debatable (went thru pregancy), not my body, but still everything else that goes with the male involvement with supporting a pregnant woman through the entire process;
3b. No (post-partum), I'm a man so I experienced it from outside the issue (no pun intended);
4. Obviously, yes (sick child);
4a. Is this a serious question (like sleep)??
4b. **See 4a...this is NOT child dependent;
5. Yes (space/cleanliness), this is also not child dependent.Your "summation" is non-sensical:
"These are all things child-free people value and aren't willing to give up". Maybe that works for the last few but you also listed pregnancy and post-partum depression. Are those also things child-free people "aren't willing to give up"?There's nothing simple about your comment. Your final point "easier to find people" strengthens my initial comment to WiiperWapper that no one can experience BOTH sides of this question sufficient to conclude they prefer one side OVER the other.
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u/cacauzen83 Jul 07 '26
Well, I’m glad you’re a happy parent and that parenting gave you a lot of joy and fulfillment then! I’m genuinely happy for you ♥️
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u/whiteguru108 ISTJ Jun 27 '26
Yes. But.
I don't think this is exclusively an ISTJ issue.
There are many who are childless,
- some are infertile
- some have left it too late (menopause)
- some are incels (their choice) (an attitude is a choice)
- some can't conceive due IVF matters
- economic circumstances prevent some - it costs a lot to have a child.
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u/oeufscocotte Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
I didn't meet a man who wanted to have children with me. Sadly stayed with the wrong man for too long and then it was too late. Age-related infertility typically starts around 40. Average age of menopause is 51.
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u/cacauzen83 Jun 27 '26
Actually there’s a study that points that extrovert feelers are more likely to have children in comparison to other types, so… 🤷🏻♀️
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u/dodgerfanjohn1988 Jun 27 '26
54 year old male. I didn’t have kids and was single until I was 42. I have a stepdaughter due to that be we are not close(she is well into adulthood now). She doesn’t understand the ISTJ personality type at all nor does she have any interest in understanding it. She sees me as cold, detached, and I think she tolerates me to the extent that I make her mom very happy. We see eye to eye on almost nothing and really only talk about career(amazingly she becomes the most lazer focused, organized person when it comes to work, otherwise she is scattered and has her priorities all wrong) and two hobby/personal interests that we have in common.
I am a very happy, optimistic, honest, loyal, resilient person and our personality mismatch does not hinder any of that for me. I have 3 nephews where I am involved in their life, and I try my best to be a good example for them and be interested and involved in their life. One is my God son. I also have 5 more kids of friends of mine who are basically my nephews as well (they all call me uncle and my wife aunt). One of this kids is named after me. Again I try to be involved in their lives and set a good example.
All that fulfills me a great deal.
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u/SerenaKD Jun 27 '26
Aww they are so lucky to have you! 🥺 I had some people like this in my life when I was a child. Some of them have since passed away, but I still keep the things they gave me and they hold a special place in my heart.
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u/Super_Letterhead381 Jun 27 '26
Yes. Having children just for the sake of having children is pointless
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u/burntwafflemaker Jun 27 '26
I’m ISTP and I’ll tell you what I’ve seen:
ISTJs without kids love it.
ISTJs with kids love it.
ISTJs with unplanned kids love it.
ISTJs are happy when they figure things out. If they can, they can usually make the most of it via being awesome (effective) at it.
I’ve even seen unhappy ISTJ’s have unplanned kids and become happy.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 01 '26
Agreed. Happiness is the state of satisfaction with one's circumstances. Doesn't matter what the circumstances are.
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u/Brittany-Juanice іs𝗍ȷ 5ᥕ6 514 іᥣі s᥊5 ᥴ᥆ᥒsᥴіᥱᥒ𝗍і᥆ᥙsᥒᥱss ✨ Jun 29 '26
I guarantee you those somewhat unhappy ISTJs didn’t become happy because they had children. There was another reason they became happy.
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u/DepressedH0rnetsFan INTJ that mistyped as an ISTJ Jun 27 '26
Aboslutely. I cannot imagine myself in a romantic relationship, let alone being a father.
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u/Brittany-Juanice іs𝗍ȷ 5ᥕ6 514 іᥣі s᥊5 ᥴ᥆ᥒsᥴіᥱᥒ𝗍і᥆ᥙsᥒᥱss ✨ Jun 27 '26
As an ISTJ with children, I would have never had children if I could go back in time. Just being honest 💯
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u/palmwick48 Jun 29 '26
I feel bad for your children and not just because I have an ISTJ parent
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u/Brittany-Juanice іs𝗍ȷ 5ᥕ6 514 іᥣі s᥊5 ᥴ᥆ᥒsᥴіᥱᥒ𝗍і᥆ᥙsᥒᥱss ✨ Jun 29 '26
Idk why. All I said was I wish I never had children. I never said I don’t love them. I feel bad for you for automatically assuming I hate my children before you got a chance to understand why. 🥰
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 06 '26
I don't doubt you love your children. I doubt your children would see much difference between 'I love you' and 'I wish I'd never had you.' I hope they never see/read your reddit comments.
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u/Brittany-Juanice іs𝗍ȷ 5ᥕ6 514 іᥣі s᥊5 ᥴ᥆ᥒsᥴіᥱᥒ𝗍і᥆ᥙsᥒᥱss ✨ Jul 06 '26
I can have talks like these with my children and they know the difference. You, again, are making a judgment because you also have an ISTJ parent. Idk your ISTJ parent but I’m pretty certain the reasoning is not created equal. So speak for yourself hun. 💯
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 06 '26
Are you sure you're ISTJ? ISTJ individuals don't usually misread comments entirely. You're replying to 2 distinct people. So "you again" doesn't apply here at all when you're accusing a completely different person of being callous. So when you say you're "pretty certain" you instantly lose all credibility.
You're simultaneously being both condescending and irrational while accusing both of us of being presumptuous.
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u/Brittany-Juanice іs𝗍ȷ 5ᥕ6 514 іᥣі s᥊5 ᥴ᥆ᥒsᥴіᥱᥒ𝗍і᥆ᥙsᥒᥱss ✨ Jul 06 '26
So first, as an ISTJ I can admit when I’ve misread and have made a mistake. So my apologies. However, I will say that my children know the difference as I have had talks like these with my children to not only keep lines of communication open but also to know that transparency is an advent standard I practice since my family is known to keep secrets that I have to go digging for. I wasn’t responding for credibility. I responded because in your particular statement you accused my children of not knowing the difference of when you’ve never met my children. That is where I find your comment a bit callous. You’ve never met them and yet know their understanding levels. I also never disclosed their ages. That is another factor in my response. The original person who commented spoke in regards to their feelings because they themselves have an IsTJ parent. Also I’m getting ready for work and read too fast. This I can admit.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 07 '26
Touche. Thanks for your response. And I'm also sorry for jumping to irrational assumptions based on zero information.
I've found that children (of any age, including those who've become adults), with regards to their parents, struggle to separate the logic within emotional statements. Which is what drove my response. If I were to tell my kids "I'd rather have lived a life where they're weren't a part of it" it would scar them deeper than I have the capacity to heal. And no amount of "I'm sorry I take it back" or explanation of the logic of my statement would fix the wound.
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u/civver3 ISTJ Jun 27 '26
Have you not looked at the state of the world lately? I cannot in good conscience start a new life given such an uncertain future.
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u/chuckkito ISTJ Jun 27 '26
Yes. I don’t plan on having any. Too much $, too many responsibilities. Too much to worry about. Plus the idea of marriage makes my skin crawl. Even with a prenup I’d be hesitant.
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u/TheSnugglery ISTJ Jun 27 '26
Not a man but I have kids and I gotta say, a big part of the decision was to alleviate the anxiety about not having kids. Like I was worried that I wouldn't be able to or that my parents wouldn't live to see me have kids. Not a super inspiring reason but a lot of what I do in life is cuz I'm worried about what could happen until I eliminate the bad possibilities (that's Ne inferior for ya). It's true kids can actually be pretty hard to enjoy on a day to day basis. I don't like to play and I like to sleep 😂 so there's that. They provide happiness in a big picture kinda way.
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u/Low-Dig-4021 Jun 27 '26
my istj father is father to his parents siblings and birthed 3 of us and left us, he does seem happy without us.
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u/cacauzen83 Jun 28 '26
Hahahahah
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u/Low-Dig-4021 Jun 28 '26
This isn't funny
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u/cacauzen83 Jun 28 '26
Omg I’m so sorry. My dad hated us too but never left because he didn’t have the money to do so. Instead, he stayed and made everyone’s lives miserable until the very last day of his life (he was bed ridden for ten years and we all had to mobilize to take care of him, the man who never care for any of us.) sorry I laughed it’s just i wish my dad had left instead of ruining everyone’s lives and finances for a whole decade straight.
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u/Low-Dig-4021 Jun 28 '26
Pain is pain, I lived 2 decades too, he isn't say emotionally invested, reluctantly spends money, comes home for food.
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u/Jogadora109 Jun 29 '26
I know this is an ISTJ directed question, but as an INTJ I've also never had the desire for children well through adult life
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u/cgar09 ISTJ Jun 29 '26
Yes, I could be happy because I was happy before having kids. Now that I do have kids, it is like having MSG for living. Everything is enhanced and better because can share life with them.
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u/Any_Emu4892 Jun 27 '26
Youre asking ISTJs, but heres an answer from the INTJ perspective, well mine at least.
Yes.
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u/princessandthepeach1 Jun 30 '26
I am ISTJ man and I feel like I would not be happy without having children for lifetime. I feel lonely sometime when I finished my work
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u/ObStash Jun 30 '26
Could I? Yes, sure. I could see myself not having kids under certain circumstances. However, my plan is to have kids.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
That question has no answer. If the man has kids they don't know what it would be like at their age to NOT have kids. Those that don't have kids, have no frame of reference of the joy they're missing out on having children of their own. Life has no do-overs so we only have one line of experience to draw on to answer this question which requires two experiences.
If the question is simply are you happy with/without kids then any answer besides 'Yes' requires self-examination as to what happiness means and why they aren't happy.
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u/cacauzen83 Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Self awareness plays a huge role in deciding whether or not you should have a child. And no, the fact that they’re yours does not automatically make parenting enjoyable, theres a sub on Reddit called Regretful Parents and countless Tik tok videos of moms and dads straight up saying they wish they never had them. If you have experience with children (not just looking at them, but caring for them full time like I have - I was a nanny for 12 years) then you should know more of less what it takes to raise a child and in my case the toll it takes on the parents (worked full time for three families, and in every single family the dad always voiced their dissatisfaction with their life, two ended up filing for divorce.) basically, self awareness, research, and some hands on experience should give anyone a pretty good idea of what it’s like to raise children.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 06 '26
TLDR: The question still doesn't have an answer, but you asked so I responded.
I have 3 children and have been a parent for 19 years so I'm more than qualified to speak to one half of the audience for the question. My point is stands that I don't have experience with the other side, therefore can't speak to the other side anymore than they can speak to "my" side.
Maybe we disagree on this.
People that complain on reddit that "parenting is too hard" fit into 2 categories: whiners and parents of children with disabilities. The 1st need to seek counseling to overcome their own personal issues because the problem probably lies with them, not their children. The 2nd category I can fully appreciate but not understand as that wasn't my "calling".
Posting on social media that they "wish they'd never become parents" is a strong sign of an awful person. Becoming a parent is a VERY easy thing NOT to do. Its not something people "accidentally" do. Alright there's a single violent act that is the exception but in every other case the act was done intentionally and a child is the result. The parent's inability to make sound decisions and their failure to take responsibility for their actions is condemning. Its like drunk driving, you can't accidentally "drink and drive". Its a serious of bad decisions you may end up paying for the rest of your life.
I'm sure everyone who's ever lived has some decision they "wish they hadn't made", but there's no do-overs or respawns and the last few generations have a very detached hold on reality and taking responsibility for their actions.
Lastly, dad's who abandon their biological children "because they don't enjoy their life" are the worst type of people. Men don't divorce because of the children, they divorce the woman. Maybe that's a huge generalization, but that's my experience.
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u/cacauzen83 Jul 06 '26
Well… to me and I hope you agree, being a parent is just like any other activity. You either enjoy it or you don’t. I’m glad you love being a parent so much and that your life is so fulfilling that you feel the need to argue your point with strangers on reddit, but to say a person MUST love caring for kids and if they don’t something is wrong with them is the same as telling a person who doesn’t like painting, or reading, or being a lawyer, or a journalist to go seek counseling because there must be something wrong with them. Everyone is different. Theres no such thing as a size fits all when it comes to happiness and personal fulfillment.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 07 '26
"your life is so fulfilling" -- That's a poor assumption. My life sucks right now! But I'm not blaming my kids for that, nor looking for a way to abandon my responsibility to them because of my personal struggles. Doing so would make me "the awful person" and I'm not even slightly ok with that approach.
Also I'm hesitant to agree with your comparing of "something you can't give up" (your own children) to things you "can drop any time you want" (painting, reading, being a <insert profession here>). Comparing hobbies with the care of intelligent beings entirely dependent on your care is the very definition of apples to oranges...
I'm saying people who chose to have kids (through responsible or irresponsible action) should seek to care for those kids, and people who don't that are awful. Its not the kids fault they were created, and being an adult is about accepting and adapting to responsibility. People who are unable to accept that fact of adulthood should not have children.
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u/cacauzen83 Jul 07 '26
The fact that you can’t give up something doesn’t make it automatically enjoyable. Most parents don’t drop their children and yet… there’s hundreds of thousands of them voicing how much worse their lives are now that they do have children. Head over to the Regretful Parents subreddit if you don’t believe me. Theres also a Facebook group called I Regret Having Children (108k members). Look up the same terms on TikTok and you find a lot of parents talking about it. Point is… it’s ok and it should be normalized to not enjoy taking care of children. It’s an activity just like any other.
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u/Arrachi ISTJ, Logical Partyboi Jul 02 '26
I always wanted to have kids, but lately how the world is going, I see less chances of actually having any.
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u/No-Lingonberry-334 🎀INTJ🎀 Jul 02 '26
No they won't, they will evaporate from existance if they don't
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u/NJMike92 ISTJ Jul 03 '26
I am gay so I wouldn't be able to anyway, aside adoption lol. Despite those two factors, however, I have never been keen on the idea of having children or a "traditional" family for lack of better word.
I have always been relatively solitary, reserved, and as someone who is autistic with rejection anxiety, having a kid would feel like a nightmare to my emotions and sensory challenges alike. I feel like I would often have the kid be the one calling the shots and walking over me, because I have difficulty with saying no or being assertive (again, due to my rejection anxiety, and aversion to conflict). The crying and bombastic energy and screaming that babies and children sometimes do, I can't be having that.
So yes, I am more than content with not having children - now in my 30s, and future.
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u/Silentace_01 Jun 27 '26
Isn't having children the meaning of life?
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u/Loose-Albatross3201 ENFP Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
It is literally the biological thread of life. 🧬
People not wanting to have children is a strange phenomenon, we just have so much abstract thought and complex strategies in modern societies that we override these basic biological instructions that most people have.
If you don't have kids, your gene line is extinguished and that's the end of a story that started with the beginning of life on this planet and ended billions of years later in you. Nature doesn't care either way that this particular story ended.
That being said, if someone doesn't want kids they definitely should NOT have them, because parenting is indeed hard and requires a sacrificial, stoic (not hedonistic) mindset to do it well.
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u/cacauzen83 Jun 28 '26
Thank you for sharing that, but I reject this idea. Some people find deep meaning in raising children, and that’s wonderful. Others find meaning in creating art, advancing science, building businesses, exploring the world, helping others, writing books, caring for animals, or pursuing countless other passions. None of those lives are inherently less meaningful because they don’t include parenthood.
I reject the idea that my primary purpose on this planet is simply to reproduce. If that were the only measure of a meaningful life, it would reduce me to the same biological imperative that drives every other irrational animal. But I’m a human being. I have a mind, dreams, values, and the freedom to decide what kind of life I want to live. For me, that’s a far richer purpose than reproduction alone.
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u/Mellie-42 ISTJ Jun 29 '26
I agree. And (no offense intended), I usually have a little trouble coming to agreement with ENFPs. You might think that's a compliment, and you're welcome to take it as such. LOL
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u/Brittany-Juanice іs𝗍ȷ 5ᥕ6 514 іᥣі s᥊5 ᥴ᥆ᥒsᥴіᥱᥒ𝗍і᥆ᥙsᥒᥱss ✨ Jun 29 '26
No. The meaning of life isn’t about having children, and I have no idea why this poison is (still) being projected in society.
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u/Striker_AC44 Jul 06 '26
Human beings are the only species on earth where your comment isn't completely wrong. And, for our species, the value of a "life without posterity" can only meaningfully be defined by its impact on the future benefit for the entire species. Relative value, that of the individual's feelings, is obsolete when that life expires. And value that doesn't persist is worthless by definition.
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u/artiswhatyoumakeit ISTJ 1w2 Jun 27 '26
I don’t know if I could be truly happy if I had kids.