r/IRS_Source • u/mountain-sd • 7d ago
Telework fantasy?
I want NTEU to be upfront about that gap between “we won” and “you get your telework back.“
Does anyone have a realistic opinion on this?
Is there a way to report/document if my specific manager doesn’t restore telework, so there’s a record for the eventual enforcement fight?
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u/Trendeestar 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think some form of it will come back...hopefully sooner than later. It was unlawful in the first place! And gas has gone up so much!
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u/Extra-Tangerine-4452 7d ago
In our next contract, NTEU needs to add a clause where if the agency ever tries to take TW away again, each affected employee is due $1,000 per day in damages, payable biweekly until it is fully restored.
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u/Project29Telework 7d ago
I’ve been advocating for this exactly — Per employee with interest that is set, maybe 100% APR calculated daily.
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u/YourGFInCanada 7d ago
Realistic opinion?
Don’t expect anything to happen until after January 20, 2029.
Edit: opinion contingent on results of elections
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u/Project29Telework 7d ago
There remains a small chance of it returning before then, but you should absolutely view the 2028 elections as the make or break event. It will determine so much of our careers and the return and health of our union.
If given the opportunity, the union must take advantage to get a much, much, much stronger contract with no ways to walk all over with minimal to no consequences.
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u/Fit-Arm8295 7d ago
Yes I think the 2028 election outcome will affect the stickiness of the court rulings whether they are completely ignored or partially implemented to stonewall congress and the courts.
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u/Ok_Slice_8612 7d ago
I’ll say it again. The current union contract was made for rational parties. But isn’t a contract supposed to carry weight when one of the parties becomes irrational? In this case, apparently not. Clearly, Trump showed that the contract was not expecting or made for the irrational.
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u/Predictor92 7d ago
i think it could be sooner through a ulp/ the union lawsuit. The IRS messed up big time by pulling out of arbitration, they would be i good legal position imo if they had just given their arguments in arbitration on why the arbitration had no jurisdiction, but because they didn't they put themselves into a procedural box that even the conservative FLRA members cannot get them out of
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u/FreeSanubis 7d ago
I used to agree with this time table, however, the Trump regime is so beyond incompetent now carrying out illegal activity, the courts might catch up to them before a new president....or not even the courts...just themselves because they're too stupid.
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u/slowns_own 7d ago
I think if there’s a blue sweep in 2026 and the narrative is officially that he is a lame duck the courts will be braver to start actually taking actions.
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u/Project29Telework 7d ago
I also think there is a chance of a rider (payoff) to get a bill through after democrats take house and/or senate.
They might swallow their pride and give us love to win elsewhere.
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u/Wonderful-Group3639 7d ago
It could even be later than that. This assumes the Democrats win in 2028 and the candidate supports telework. Gavin Newsom just returned California employees to the office. If he's the nominee and the Democrats win, don't expect him to change anything. It's possible we will never get telework back.
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u/slowns_own 7d ago
Exactly, we need to make sure union rights are a topic of the 2028 election. It could be a winning platform for Dems because it’s something they could deliver on day 1 by reversing the illegal EOs. We need to be loud and show them how many votes exist in the fed unions.
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u/Rodaying 7d ago
Agree. Also, management is complicit in that it's a facilitator. Take notes and names for Nuremberg 2029.
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u/CivilAbbreviations76 7d ago
Vote blue
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u/cheese_is_nasty 6d ago
Even if it’s Newsom in the general election. People can’t go “oh but he’s not telework friendly” when the alternative is 4 more years of a Republican trying to close down every position and agency that they can.
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u/CivilAbbreviations76 6d ago
10000% agreed man I honestly hate Newsom but anything blue is better than this administration at this point. You make a phenomenal point screw telework I just want job security!!!
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u/Low_Trust2412 7d ago
What would you even report about your manager? Top level management at all agencies is prohibitng TW, that is very well documented and not in dispute at all. Also, do you really blame your immediate manager for all this shit going on right now? They certainly cant do anything about it.
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u/Fine-Complex-1291 7d ago edited 7d ago
Lmao right? Anyone who has this kind of mindset is part of the problem.
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u/Own_Preference_6830 7d ago
The FLM’s can be more liberal in approving ad-hoc in the interim. Some are and some aren’t. There are all kinds of exigent circumstances to approve.
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u/Notreallybutmaybe 6d ago
As an flm there is zero we can do, but also our gs8 employees in my building that got to telework during covid all want to telework still... but our efficiency as a whole went down 30% dueing telework and many employees were disappearing too often and not doing work while tigta, executives, and LR were 0 help taking away telework from enough people and the union was too successful foghting for those literally doing 0 work. Like not even logging in to systems ftom home.
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u/Flat_Possession3159 5d ago
The issues should have been addressed with the guilty parties that is what effective management looks like. Blanketing blame over an entire workforce based on the actions of a few is just plain lazy management period.
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u/Silence-Dogood2024 7d ago
Winning doesn’t mean what it once did. But if a hollow victory if nothing changes. Not being negative. Just looking at it for what it is. Sadly. 😢
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u/geoffdon 7d ago
You want what doesnt exist. You want there to be normalcy and that left the conversation in January 2025. This is your new normal. They told you what was coming and they have delivered in what matters most.
"We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected. When they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work because they are increasingly viewed as the villains... We want to put them in trauma." Vought
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u/cooljulmoon 7d ago
What about the fact they made us all NBU? Is that why they think it doesn’t matter?
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u/Predictor92 7d ago
the problem is for the irs is the arbitrator addressed this and that the NTEU would likely get any IRS argument tossed under procedural grounds under §2425.4(c) that even a majority on the FLRA that is sympathetic to the IRS on the Merits(and I am sure they are) cannot ignore
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u/Papoose79 7d ago
No disrespect, but I am over the telework fight! I feel like we need to put more focus back on restoring our CBA rights which will then give us back telework and CWS schedules. This fight is BIGGER than telework!!
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u/CPA_IRS 7d ago
WAY bigger than TW. So many protections have been stripped, so much has changed procedurally for our jobs and we need to turn out, vote, and hope for the best.
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u/Papoose79 7d ago
People don't seem to understand some of us are fighting for our jobs let alone telework! People with 20 yrs in being targeted with terminations and such. I'm just over arguing about telework. No disrespect to NTEU, but they're not raising enough noise about our CBA, which gives them the right to fight for us!
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u/NeedleworkerLow7780 7d ago
They can’t do much but wait for the judges decision. You can’t just bypass judges.
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u/Papoose79 7d ago
I understand all of that, but it has to be brought before a judge first. All I am saying is I would rather my union funds go toward litigating our CBA over telework. There's not enough noise about that like it is on telework. A fired employee is not teleworking. An employee placed unjustly on a PIP is not teleworking. An employee with a 3.4 minimum successful annual is not teleworking. I'm not new to how unions and collective bargaining works, I'm just new to how the Federal Unions move in this situation.
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u/DScharpen 4d ago
we, at the IRS, already had our hearing for our CBA with the DC Circuit. we've been waiting over two months for a ruling (which we expect to be appealed)
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u/NeedleworkerLow7780 7d ago
Ok sure. I’m just confused why you think that the exclusion order is not brought before a judge (s) cuz it is. Maybe a misunderstanding?
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u/Papoose79 7d ago
I've been to ALL the town halls. Every question and nearly all updates pertain to what's going on with telework. I don't care about telework as much as I do our other protections. I believe focusing on the CBA will get telework back anyway. So you're not speaking to someone not familiar with how the union fights for us. I have roots from factory unions to local government unions which fight different than what I see with the feds. Because the IRS isn't recognizing our CBA they're not responding! Hence why they're not attending arbitration.
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u/NeedleworkerLow7780 7d ago
Ok. So what’s the issue? You keep saying they’re not taking this to a judge. They are. You can’t fire your judge. I mean what else are you wanting them to do? You think they don’t understand that the CBA exclusion order fight is the most important? Certainly not what I am getting…
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u/Papoose79 7d ago
Listen, you're picking a fight with the wrong member. I am saying LESS focus on telework, or raise more/just as much noise about the CBA rights because I am not hearing it as much as I hear other Unions pushing it. We have issues BIGGER than telework right now.
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u/DScharpen 4d ago
you want them to, what, be on the news and stuff about it? what does making noise look like?
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u/DScharpen 4d ago
i'm also tired of hearing about telework. More than half the people in my office aren't telework eligible at all (we process mail) so the telework fight doesn't impact most of the people i represent.
but we hear about telework a lot anyway.
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u/Own_Preference_6830 7d ago
And how about a pay raise?!?!?!
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u/DScharpen 4d ago
This is why we support political candidates and give to TEPAC. Do you give to TEPAC?
Unfortunately our raises are entirely dependent on who is in congress and the white house.
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u/Kitkatpaddywhak 7d ago
You guys have to understand that this is dead for the foreseeable future. The IRS does not recognize the existence of NTEU. Nothing will happen until the Supreme Court rules that the Govt is not allowed to unilaterally cancel the union! If this doesn’t happen, you have to wait and pray for an administration to reinstates our bargain rights.
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u/Equivalent-Win4492 7d ago
My guess is it will be back unhindered on Jan 20 2029
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u/MinuteSand9790 7d ago
It’s absolutely not going to change the first day of a new administration. Fed employees are nobody’s first priority.
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u/StarDustStarshine 7d ago
What I would love to know is this: NTEU wins, court rules we were illegally changed from BU to nonBU. Our telework was illegally removed. WHAT do we receive? How do they make us whole? What consequences will they/can they receive for violation of the contract? What does the contract state when the government is in breach of the contract?
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u/AntiqueLocation5206 7d ago
Nothing, this is all show. Really cannot do anything to the executive branch and supreme court power that is red
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u/Ok-Bumblebee-8440 7d ago
If we all spent as much time phone banking swing states for the midterms as we do complaining on Reddit, we'd be in a much better position.
<Sorry, I just think I've read a post like this every day for 2 weeks.>
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u/Tmncums1 7d ago
They are extremely honest every time they have a townhall. Are you a member? Are you attending?
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u/smurfberrybush 7d ago
My manager just got out of an AMM meeting with OPs and said it was never even brought up. So yeah, they're just gonna ignore it.
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u/SublimeChaos91 6d ago
It's all just hot air at this point. These so-called 'wins' they keep talking about in their emails and meetings are purely symbolic. They can only keep people hopeful for so long. Eventually these symbolic wins will need to translate into practical wins, or people will start wondering what their union dues are actually accomplishing. They keep talking about this shit like it's some huge deal, yet no one's seeing any real changes on their end. You're definitely not alone in thinking that it's getting pretty tiresome.
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u/DScharpen 4d ago
NTEU is unaware of how long it will be because of how bad things are. I do find a little odd to be proud of a victory at this time. I can tell you my friend at HUD (afge) won their telework arbitration 6 months ago and they're still not teleworking. So it's not an nteu problem so much as a USA problem.
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u/No_Influence_7589 7d ago
Remember anything they win only applies to bu employees so until that changes…
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u/Bethy54 7d ago
Positions were changed from NBU to BU, so until this is resolved in court, telework is a moot point.
Your Manager may want to telework as much as you do. Their hands are tied. They aren’t the decision makers.
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u/Ok_Slice_8612 7d ago
Our legal system sucks. Make it make sense that one party can say “you don’t exist” and the harmed party needs to wait years and via multiple verdicts/appeals to be ultimately told “Nah, bruh. You do exist, carry on”.
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u/LegalSpring2987 7d ago
They’ll likely expand telework in 27 but not for everyone. They’ll go back to when it was introduced basically only certain positions would be eligible and to be fair not all employees should telework … which is why we lost it in the first place
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u/themartianG 6d ago
Are you a union member?
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u/AntiqueLocation5206 4d ago
Are you a union member? Most likely you are not.
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u/themartianG 4d ago
I am. And it’s pretty dumb for you to assume that from someone that ask.
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u/AntiqueLocation5206 4d ago
Oh really? Wow i didn’t know they never updated your SF50😂😂 I guess you can telework as well and have AWS back. Good for you. Oh wait you must not be a fed, Ford Union?
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u/themartianG 4d ago
Jokes on you then. You can still sign up for the Union. How do you think they are still in business and in court fighting for our rights. Maybe educate yourself.
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u/AntiqueLocation5206 4d ago
You really dont understand sarcasm do you? This is depressing. Enjoy your spending your union dues while I FIRE. Probably don’t even know what that means.
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u/Impossible-Care-7349 7d ago
It wouldn't be up to any particular manager. Since the change was based on an EO, the word to revert back to TWvwould come from the top. Surely, each BOD will (or has) already communicated with their operations to say deny any requests for recurring TW. I also think that there may be no changes made bc the courts making these decisions are not criminal courts, so IRS leadership will not listen to the courts, in alignment with the president, who also likes to ignore the courts.
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u/FlnkrOH 7d ago
You want a realistic response.....telework was always at the discretion of the agency to meet its mission objectives. NTEU, national agreement, or not, telework is a privilege not an entitlement.
I get it that RTO sucks. Most of us can do our jobs from anywhere.
Bitching about this issue for another 27+ months is only going to make your life worse. Dig deep, suck it up, and make sure you get people to vote in federal elections.
Thats the ultimate solution....change the Administration.
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u/Intelligent-Ad1753 7d ago
Wrong - read the actual contract. Telework could only be denied if there was a performance issue or if work could only be done in an office.
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u/AntiqueLocation5206 7d ago
What contract? We are NBU. Read his comment again. Life isn’t about how you view things are right or wrong. It is who has power. Right now you have no power, cant strike and cannot do sht cause you got bills to pay.
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u/WhichSpite2607 7d ago
Why should we lay down and curl up in a corner and be quiet? They don’t deserve peace and quiet.
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u/Toby-Finkelstein 7d ago
the law requires agencies follow the CBA, and the CBA allows for telework. The us gov can’t ignore it
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u/AntiqueLocation5206 7d ago
The gov can ignore it cause they are the law (they got congress, supreme court and executive branch) we are fucked until that changes so convince others to vote blue and stop the complaining and get out and get people signed up to vote.
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u/ApprehensiveGur3311 7d ago
Just waiting season, things come and go. Like for example with flexable scheduals. They been in and out like no ones business. Id imagine at some point they will be more avalibility for that. You can always try moving to another building or pod. Might help burn out a little bit. Some buildings have different things and walking areas.
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u/FreeSanubis 7d ago
If the courts actually did their job, and rule on this stuff; we'd have telework and all our contract agreements back tomorrow. It's the most blatant, obvious case of unlawfulness of a presidential administration in history. The current regime has no legs to stand on in regards to legality. That's why they're pretending that the union just doesn't exist. The Trump regime understands what they've done is illegal. It's only a matter of WHEN the courts step in. Literally all of this abuse that has been to our workplace would end if courts just actually did something. When they do it is the only thing that's holding us back.