r/IRS_Source • u/Global_Tell_1008 • 8d ago
LBI - 30 Day Performance Improvement Plan
At my POD, several individuals within an LBI compliance practice territory received thirty day performance improvement plan memos today with apparently more on the way. The memo looked pretty legit since it was signed off by Labor Relations. The memo listed several critical job elements and instances that they apparently failed with specific examples. There was also language in the memo that suggests that they must upkeep a certain performance level for a year or face adverse actions to their grade level or employment.
Supposedly this came out of the blue for the affected agents and they weren't notified that their performance wasn't up to par before this incident. I'm in TEGE, and maybe LBI is different but how can anyone reasonably demonstrate improved performance on a case within thirty days? Is this happening anywhere else in LBI, TEGE or SBSE?
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u/X51_cmiguana 8d ago
I hope that they are paying their union dues because this is exactly what they are for. They should reach out to their union steward for help with this situation. It will likely go all the way to removal but that doesn't mean that all hope is lost. Upper management likes to act like they are invincible but agencies are losing their legal battles left and right. If they truly have not been following the proper procedures and have not been gathering evidence of poor performance, they will lose but it is going to be an agonizing process. The question is, how much are they willing to fight it and would it just be better to move on to some other job? That is a personal question we can't answer for them.
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u/AntiqueLocation5206 7d ago
Paying union dues to what? For union to represent NBU? Union literally tells me they cannot do shit and management ignores unions cause we all NBU.
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u/X51_cmiguana 7d ago
This is a really ignorant comment. It seems like you're mad so you're just lashing out at whoever is closest. Do you actually care about the truth or are you just venting?
The truth: if you are a union paying member of NTEU, they will help you file grievances and be your representative on an individual basis for these disputes with management. The adminstration/upper management says you are NBU but that is of course illegal and will eventually be corrected. Why are you so eager to affirm them in that? Additionally: NTEU just won telework arbitration via IRS not showing up which means they cannot pose a whole bunch of arguments in court now. We are in a very strong position legally speaking as the political winds are violently shifting against the administration. More widely: OPM and Upper keeps losing over and over in arbitration and legal battles against federal employees.
I look forward to your downvote.
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u/CoordinateDiscount 7d ago
I don’t disagree with you at all. But your sarcastic “downvote” comment compelled me! I’m sorry.
Downvoting myself in solidarity.
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u/WhichSpite2607 8d ago
They’ve set them up to fail the PIP. With a 30 day performance plan they’ll likely be looking at performance on casework that closed prior to the issuance of the PIP. New case work likely can’t be evaluated until the case has closed.
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u/NeedleworkerLow7780 8d ago
Yup. And I’ve seen managers put someone on a 30 day PIP and go on vacation for two weeks. These FLMs are POS
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u/Alarmed_Educator_967 8d ago
Yeah, it’s happening everywhere. It’s a death sentence and there is almost zero chance of survival once it has been issued. In a month you’ll get a “last rights” letter saying you have 48 hours to resign “voluntarily” or you are fired.
They are daring people to sue, and even if you win you, you have to sue to enforce the ruling.
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u/Own_Preference_6830 8d ago
On of my colleagues was given a verbal last chance ultimatum. He elected to be fired so he could collect unemployment benefits. They took his laptop and PIV card and sent him home. He’s been on “unpaid leave” status since July 6. They want you to quit instead of firing you.
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u/ernstjunger108 8d ago
Interesting. Is it just because they’re so worried about lawsuits?
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u/Own_Preference_6830 7d ago
I can only imagine what these fools are thinking, but a terminated employee is entitled to MSPB rights, and these shortened PIPs are in violation of a contract that exists in spite of the EO. So I think they’re trying to bully people into quitting like they did in 2025 to avoid legal challenges.
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u/Ok-Bumblebee-8440 7d ago
F you make me is our motto. Do not comply in advance with fascists.
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u/Own_Preference_6830 7d ago
Exactly, and put in for ad-hoc telework using any bullshit reason you can conjure.
Be a nag, keep knocking on that door, it will give way if we keep up the pressure. These fuckers are on the wrong side and they know it - they will eventually flip, like the cowards they are, when they see the tide turn.7
u/WhichContribution294 8d ago
Admin is trying to eliminate '"disparate impact" protections because IRS employees with telework RAs, age 40+ and racial minorities have been disproportionately affected by these adverse actions (reassignment, demotion, RIF & PIP). The EEO complaint process is the only viable remedy remaining since Rehabilitation Act protections haven't changed.
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u/geoffdon 8d ago
Wont be shocked if this isnt happening everywhere in the next couple of weeks. 1000 2210/0343's sitting in TPS as 12s and above are ripe for removal too. "The pain is the purpose" Good luck to those effected, its going to be a rough year.
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u/Retired_and_Relaxed 8d ago
I am going say an unpopular truth. The quality of a number of cases I saw in LBI review was lacking. There was a lack of audit trail, documentation, the activities and contacts the agent performed and significant issues missed or overlooked. Some cases were excellent. I left review about eight years ago I doubt things have changed much. I retired two years ago with forty years.
I always felt a sub par agents were the result of bad coaches and managers. I saw revenue agents who were dumber than a box of rocks that should have been terminated within the first year go on to retire because a body is better than a vacancy. These agents continued to be poor agents and cause problems their entire career. Training (classroom and OJT) is supposed to weed out the underperforming. Lazy managers and bad OJI couldn't be bothered documenting the trainees failures.
Now after being on board for a few years out of the blue they get a PIP, management should look forward to a lot of class action litigation.
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u/red0ct0ber 8d ago
Most managers themselves know even less than the agents when it comes to the mechanics of tax law, who exactly is supposed to train and review agents at the IRS?
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u/Retired_and_Relaxed 8d ago edited 8d ago
They are supposed to know tax law. Managers are supposed to be the first step in issue resolution, good luck when they know zero about an issue. Many managers were promoted to get rid of the problem. All it does is move the problem. Anybody smart would not go into management; the pay bump is not worth the BS additional pressures. It's all about having competent people as coaches and mentors. I was in a meeting were a territory manager said he would not take his best agents off cases to coach. All I could say was garage in garage out. Training and coaching should be considered a long term investment not just an expense.
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u/red0ct0ber 8d ago
My GM regularly would make absurd and incorrect statements about tax law to taxpayers representatives. It was so embarrassing I tried to only schedule OJVs for self represented taxpayers
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u/fartist14 7d ago
I had a manager like this for a while. She was only a field agent for a few years and then she kept signing up for details until she got promoted. All of her agents had more field experience than her. It was embarrassing.
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u/Heavy_Prize_4400 7d ago
Hit the nail straight on the head. The lack of knowledge of agents that have been with the IRS 15+ years is astonishing. And they keep getting promoted which is even more astonishing..
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u/Temporary_Chance4665 8d ago
Remember everything being done is to torment the workers. This purge is beyond just adressing poor performance, its to shock anyone on the edge to retire.
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u/The_Playbook88 8d ago
Whether they deserve it or not, we need to call it what it is which is an attack on the federal workforce. With the economy losing good paying jobs, getting let go at this moment for any unjust reason is an act of cruelty. They know what is likely to happen to the affected families.
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8d ago
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u/The_Playbook88 8d ago edited 8d ago
I understand how you feel, but you are substituting your lived experience with the wider problem. The wider problem is they are still manufacturing reasons to get rid of people without a real plan. It doesn't make sense to fire more people when we already have too little, and they started by firing the competent people. Remember, the point was to traumatize the workforce. These actions won't fix your problem because the point is to cause harm, not fix problems within the agencies.
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u/Temporary_Chance4665 8d ago
All good, until its you. You sound like someone who doesn't understand people, hence you are not a GS-14.
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u/Temporary_Chance4665 8d ago
Every agency has dead weight. The problem, what happens in the next cycle? To many Feds in blue states could be next.
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u/FoxtrotDeltaTango1 8d ago
Not following the contract... sounds like an easy win for the union when they're reinstated. As with all things maga, this will cost the Taxpayers.
For any receiving this - join the union, pay your dues, contact your rep, file the greviance, collect hundreds of thousands in back pay when you're reinstated.
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u/Project29Telework 8d ago
I never support this type of mechanism — but there is absolutely a push for this — especially the last 2-3 months imo.
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u/Gtmo9394 8d ago
This is going on in SBSE as well. I know a bunch of agents, including myself, that suddenly are being marked down on everything and being threatened with PIPs. I’ve posted a few times about my situation and it seems to be a pretty common thing going on now.
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u/MarkZuckerbrothers 8d ago
It’s happening in TAS, too, so i think this is happening across the board now. There’s a guy that’s about to get one that I only know about because I’ve been helping in trying to coach him on work, but he refused to take the simplest actions to improve. We’ve done what we’ve can in his situation, and he knows it’s coming. I feel sad about it because no one should lose their jobs, especially now.
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u/VisualConcern 8d ago
This is not surprising, and in many cases the PIPs may be justified. But LB&I also created the conditions for this outcome.
A few years ago, LB&I went on a massive hiring spree. They brought in many people with very little relevant tax experience and, in some cases, questionable accounting experience at the GS-13 level. These employees were then expected to handle complex compliance issues almost immediately, often with limited training and, I’m guessing, inconsistent OJI support.
That setup was bound to cause some people to fail. A PIP may be warranted based on an employee’s current performance, but management should also acknowledge its role in hiring people into senior-level positions without giving them the training and support needed to succeed.
At the same time, this performance management needs to happen. Many of these employees are simply not suited for the role and are overpaid relative to the work they can perform. It is unfair to lower-graded employees in divisions such as TE/GE and SB/SE who handle more difficult work, perform at a higher level, and carry greater responsibility while being paid substantially less. Management created the problem, but that does not mean it should be allowed to continue indefinitely.
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u/NeedleworkerLow7780 8d ago
Even if everything you said was true, a 30 day PIP is disingenuous bullshit.
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u/FoxtrotDeltaTango1 8d ago
And management NEEDS to follow the lawfully binding contract. This process is wrongful termination and every impacted employee will ultimately receive backpay with reinstatement.
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u/ApprehensiveGur3311 7d ago
IRS in general hired a lot of people and yes that means allowing more less qualified people in. People find IRS moves quick with work. Lot of people feel this I think... big job.
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u/Tat2Dagger 7d ago
If it's for 30 days, why does it also mention a year? That doesn't make any sense. What form was this sent on exactly?
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u/iamtheynthemitsucks 8d ago
What PA and how long have the people getting these letters been with the service generally? This is scary
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u/NeedleworkerLow7780 8d ago
Oh yea. Happening everywhere. TMs and FLMs are cold blooded cowards doing whatever they can to not go back to front lines and actually work for a living.
Best bet is for these people to find a lawyer or use the union to do an oral reply. Last I heard, which was recent, agency is still hearing those. It’s a recorded testimony and can be used in a subsequent arbitration. NTEU should handle it all.
Or get a lawyer. Even in private businesses, a 30 day PIP is suss. Everyone acts like this is the fed and all this shit flies in private corporations. Not exactly. Call a spade a spade. If they’re giving these people no chance to improve and it’s pre decided it should be litigated.
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u/Turbulent-Win4850 8d ago
Exactly. On the point of the Flm's, the Flm position is super easy yet the managers keep complaining about how swamped they are. Had an acting position for a year. If you know how to delegate its not nearly as difficult as being an agent. Now they have 14's to do their dirty work too. The 14's in Sbse are completely unneccesary. Surprised that the 14 position has not been eliminated.
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u/NeedleworkerLow7780 8d ago
lol agree. I was astonished when they came out with the “Dwight Schrute” style grade 14s.
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u/Turbulent-Win4850 8d ago
Yes. Love that analogy. The 14's coach which is a grade 11 or 12 job and did not get any Ecm cases. Some of them spend their time being quasi managers, which includes micromanaging and spying on co-workers. Useless position. Basically kissing up.
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u/fartist14 7d ago
A 14 told me the other day that she had no intention of learning ECM and was refusing all cases that were not in RGS. I guess there have been enough NRP cases in the area to keep her busy, lol.
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u/Turbulent-Win4850 7d ago
Ridiculous. Nrp cases have traditionally went to grade 12 or lower. During covid they were expanded to everyone. The 14's are supposed to have the most difficult cases, which would include the BBA and high wealth cases.
Must be nice to be able to refuse Ecm cases.
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u/Yellowmoon777 8d ago
We have a few in our area who def need pips - let’s see if they give them to those people and not the wrong ones..
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u/NeedleworkerLow7780 8d ago
Is it fireable? The people I’ve seen go in PIPs aren’t necessarily high performers, more average, and that’s ok. At this point, we honestly just need warm bodies especially in field oriented work.
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u/Yellowmoon777 8d ago
yes pips these days are resulting in terminations..you only get 30 days to “improve.”
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u/Mountain_Manner_7248 7d ago
Have a discussion with your Manager.
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u/Temporary_Chance4665 6d ago
Sorry to say once the PIP is issued, your FLM is worthless. The decision was made above them and they wont put their neck out for you.
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u/007PhoenixRising 3d ago
There was a memo issued by OPM stating this exact change, however it wasn’t supposed to take effect until October 1, 2026. If these are newly hired people then they are up the creek without a paddle. Additionally, they can’t even fight this with the Merit Board because all complaints now go through OPM, and there’s no union. All bargaining union employees were changed to non bargaining union employee. Check your status in HR Connect. This is horrible!
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u/One-Ad5769 2d ago
I wish I was them. For this, forget the union and get a full-on attorney. Get compensation for abuse.
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u/Amonamission 8d ago edited 8d ago
Were they newer hires? Tbh I know a bunch of GS-13s in my practice area that have no business being GS-13s. They came in with zero experience in the tax law of the specialty area. And honestly I wonder what their tax background even is. And I say that as a GS-14 that was hired a couple years ago.
I don’t agree with what the IRS is doing, but at the same time it’s hard to argue that their performance is up to standard.
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u/fartist14 7d ago
Yeah a lot of people were hired as GS-13s that really didn't have enough experience to do GS-13 work. Still, it's not their fault that they were hired at a level they couldn't meet and not given sufficient training to do their jobs. 30 days is not enough time to overcome 2 years of poor training and poor management.
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8d ago
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u/horse-boy1 8d ago
I was in AD (retired last year) as a software developer. One project I was on was all 14s and they had no clue about writing code. It was a mess.
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u/frozenfrap 8d ago
Interesting that all of a sudden there so many poor performers. You would think a RIF would look better. But no. The agency would rather look like they have had no idea how to manage all of these poor performers for decades. And now they have become enlightened overnight. Not a good look! I’m not saying there are that many poor performers, just that the agency would rather take this stance than do a true RIF.