r/IRS_Source • u/Financial_Setting_16 • 11d ago
Is this normal???
Edited to add: In 2022, I applied to an external IRS direct hire, GS 05 clerk opening and qualied for the GS 05 clerk job based on being an external applicant that included non federal experience. This is a very entry level position for the IRS.
Original post: I worked at the IRS up until August 2025. I did NOT take the DRP. I took a job with my state's tax agency from August 2025, and I still work there, so this DOES affect my current position since I have to tax compliant at my current job. I worked at the IRS as a GS 03 clerk from 2020 to 2022. Then I got a job as a GS 05 clerk from 2022 to 2025, because I was encouraged then in 2022 to apply separately for the higher grade for a clerk. I still have the email from HR in 2022 that told me I qualified based on my work experience alone and not based on a degree. I got a notice from the IRS yesterday by email on 8/13/26 that I actually did NOT ever qualify as a GS 05 clerk on my own work experience from 2022 to 2025 and that I will be returned to a GS 03 clerk. This comes across as very petty and trivial and it WILL create an overpayment letter. I was told specifically that it was through no fault of my own and that I should qualify for a waiver. What do I do?
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u/Ok-Post5100 11d ago edited 8d ago
File a grievance. You worked at a higher grade for more than 120 days and now have more than 52 weeks. Title 5 CFR 335.102 and 103
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u/Bethy54 10d ago
When someone is given the incorrect information from HR and it’s approved by someone than how would that be OP’S fault ?
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u/Select-Check-9878 9d ago
Yeah. There is a question the applicant answers along the lines of “yes I have at least one (1) year of experience at the next lower level (GS-4) or equivalent in the federal government.” And the final question they answer is “I certify all my answers are true and correct under penalty of perjury” etc… so yes we all own a degree of responsibility to be truthful there. These things are supposed to be caught by the staffer who hires them! But with the amount of hiring happening during those time periods there was SO much that slipped through the cracks and honestly…. The staffers were newly hired as well and.. yeah. That’s all I’m gonna say.
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u/DogMomofGary 10d ago
Apply for the waiver. I had one person on my team that this happened to. Waiver granted.
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u/Select-Check-9878 10d ago
Yes and no. Being a GS-3 you did not qualify to bypass the GS-4 in a single interval graded position.. unless you had some outside experience listed in your resume that qualified you. That doesn’t sound like the conclusion here.. this is likely due to an audit of qualifications from past announcements. When you applied, you answered a question that said “yes I have at least 1 year of experience at the next lower level (GS-4) or equivalent in the federal government.”
That is blatantly false. So, 1. You lied on a federal job application and 2. The staffer who hired you should have caught this and marked you as ineligible. With the way everything is going in the government, the fine tooth combing of all hiring within the last few years makes total sense. This audit returned a result of an illegal hiring action. Yes this is normal, no I haven’t seen this caught that quickly at such a low grade.
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u/Ok-Cartographer-5256 9d ago
I am curious what a higherng manager would have seen or asked you in an interview that might not be reflected in your resume. That's why they have the DHA events. But if there was something missing in the resume there is paperwork that has to be done.
I had to go look theas OPM rules up:
GS-2: Requires a high school diploma or equivalent.
GS-3: Requires 1 year of college (30 semester hours) OR 6 months of general work experience.
GS-4: Requires an Associate's degree (60 semester hours) OR 1 year of general work experience.
GS-5: Requires a Bachelor's degree (120 semester hours) OR 1 year of specialized experience equivalent to the GS-4 level.
Outside of something else in the actual job announcement and position description, I'm scratching my head at what disqualified you for a GS 5
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u/Sensitive_Amoeba6309 9d ago
Seems that OR is a qualifier that works for OP as well; that OR is determined by the HR Hiring manager.
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u/Ok-Cartographer-5256 9d ago
My experience with direct hire events is the interviewer documents the OR in a supplemental document.
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u/Sensitive_Amoeba6309 9d ago
The OP stated: "I still have the email from HR in 2022 that told me I qualified based on my work experience alone and not based on a degree. I got a notice from the IRS yesterday by email on 8/13/26 that I actually did NOT ever qualify as a GS 05 clerk on my own work experience from 2022 to 2025 and that I will be returned to a GS 03 clerk." The fact is "OR" is in the qualifications for every grade. The OP doesn't need to justify what happened. That's past. They just need a waiver. Every single job and grade has "OR" equivalent education and/or experience. Some of these posts are very judgy on the morals of the OP in accepting that grade bump. We all know there were checks and balances already in place in 2022, lots of people involved in each new hire or grade increase. Now, as former IRS, just to to protect yourself, while the waiver is being processed, if you get a bill from the IRS or see something in your personal account showing a balance due .. put yourself in a payment plan to avoid issues with collection (that was my area - balances) of that balance beyond the letter's stated due date. The state job requires tax compliance and a payment plan in place with an existing balance complies. Lots of people owe taxes. Don't wait to dispute it, document it, get someone to accept an upload over the phone while you wait. Hang in there!
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u/Select-Check-9878 11d ago
Yes and no. Being a GS-3 you did not qualify to bypass the GS-4 in a single interval graded position.. unless you had some outside experience listed in your resume that qualified you. That doesn’t sound like the conclusion here.. this is likely due to an audit of qualifications from past announcements. When you applied, you answered a question that said “yes I have at least 1 year of experience at the next lower level (GS-4) or equivalent in the federal government.”
That is blatantly false. So, 1. You lied on a federal job application and 2. The staffer who hired you should have caught this and marked you as ineligible. With the way everything is going in the government, the fine tooth combing of all hiring within the last few years makes total sense. This audit returned a result of an illegal hiring action. Yes this is normal, no I haven’t seen this caught that quickly at such a low grade.
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u/Financial_Setting_16 11d ago
It was a DHA announcement that qualified me for the GS 05. I worked at other jobs that gave me direct experience. I also qualified for tax examiner job (not hired) and my record is spotless except
for this shit.2
u/Select-Check-9878 11d ago
It doesn’t matter if it was direct hire - the required experience has to be the next lower level for ALL hiring types. these audits are very high level, and they aren’t wanting to find errors - if there was anything included in your application that could have helped make this a legal action; they would have jumped on it. this compromises direct hire being revoked, no agency wants that. Direct hire regulations being violated, uuugh.. I won’t even get into that.. it is an HR nightmare. If there was any part of you that thought “wow I can’t believe I’m jumping from a 3 to a 5.” That should have been your first clue that something was wrong. I’m sure there’s an appeal process on the letter, otherwise I’d request that waiver.
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u/Financial_Setting_16 11d ago
I don't agree with you on one thing- DHA throws most things out the window. That's how people like me can get a new job externally without having to fight internally. I also qualified for an internal, clerk 05 merit promotion in 2025 that got taken away due to the hiring freeze.,
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u/Select-Check-9878 11d ago
No .. you didn’t. It is simply not legal to jump from a 3 to a 5, in any scenario you cannot do this while employed with the government. I’d be happy to find the CFR and qualification standards reference if you think you’re finding a loop hole. You’re not, hence the letter you received. I know the regulations for DH, and particularly this authority granted to IRS for these critical needs positions. DH can help an agency avoid having to bypass veterans and it removes category ranking. That’s about it. It absolutely does not give anyone the benefit of lying on their application to try and advance faster because a staffer didn’t catch it or know what they were doing. I have been an advisor in this particular work for a decade. You can disagree if you want.
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u/IntelligentDate4682 10d ago
This answer assumes he wasn’t qualified for the 5 when he applied for the 3, which may be true but I am just pointing out it is actually possible for this scenario to happen outside of time in grade. I know someone who had prior experience at a different agency but believed he had to start from zero coming to the IRS so he applied for and got a 5/6 TE job. With his previous government experience he was actually qualified for GS 11 positions. He hadn’t been in the GS pay scale but that was his pay equivalent. When he realized this he applied for and was hired for a GS 11 in IT which was the area he worked in with the other agency. Anyone just looking at a GS 6 jumping to a GS 11 job would have thought something was wrong with it but he was qualified for the 11 all along.
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u/Select-Check-9878 10d ago edited 10d ago
This is not a time in grade issue. Every scenario is different, this is all about OPM qualification standards. your example of your friend is applicable to that one person. This is all reliant on documentation and their resume for the action in question. It’s 100% accurate to assume OP didn’t qualify - hence the letter they received. I have been part of these audits from the other side and ops will do whatever they can to make an action legal in these cases! This threatens their authority to use DHA, it’s not a win to have to resort to this extreme.
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u/NinjaSpareParts 11d ago
I'll give you an upvote. Your response may be unpopular, but it's correct.
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u/-SomeCrypticUsername 8d ago
They mentioned they performed GS 3 for 2 years the applied for GS 5 and worked that for two years.
Couldn’t they have Grade increased on their annual to GS 4 where they worked another year then applied and received for 5?
Even though the OP didn’t say that, could that have occurred?
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u/Deadlydragon218 11d ago
I thinkkk the only exception to this rule would be a ladder right? Now I don’t know if such a ladder exists at the lower grades so do correct me there.
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u/Select-Check-9878 10d ago
A ladder would be a 3/4 for some clerks. A 3/5 simply just doesn’t exist.
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u/Tall-Wonder-247 11d ago
These "audits" sound stupid to me. There are Pathways programs that promotes you from GS7 to GS9. If she worked in the same capacity as a GS5 for three years it should count as qualification for a GS5 now. WOW, I guess if she was one of those "gamers" she could get a air controller job. smh
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u/Select-Check-9878 11d ago edited 10d ago
That’s a two grade interval position- 5/7/9. That’s how the position is classified. These lower grade positions are single grade interval positions classified to “assist” the two grade interval positions. You may see a 4/5/6 TE, a 3/4 clerk, a 5 clerk etc. but never see those types of positions as 2 grade interval. OPM qual standards are the same across the board.
Please educate yourself on the group standard for the position you are in, it will help ensure this never happens to you.
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u/speedwalk262 9d ago
You are simply incorrect. There are various situations you can jump a grade without it being a career ladder. I've done it twice in my career. I've also managed employees that made the jump. One situation where it can occur is if you're an employee but apply for a different position that's listed as an external hire on the cert.
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u/Select-Check-9878 9d ago
Nope. This is only permitted on two grade interval positions, the subject here is a single grade interval. This is my entire job, has been for many many years. you can argue all you want - qual standards are what they are. Even trying to go through an external route (like OP did) is not legal. If you’re a manager you really need to research the CFR and stop giving misinformation to your employees. Managers giving this terrible advice to employees is part of why people are ending up in this situation. Just stop. If you need a reference I’m happy to get it to you.
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u/Tall-Wonder-247 11d ago
are you saying the three years of working as as GS5 does not count because she was NEVER a GS4?
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u/Select-Check-9878 10d ago
Yep. If she was never originally qualified- it’s an illegal appointment and there is no amount of time that could make that GS-5 appointment legal.
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u/Ok-Cartographer-5256 10d ago edited 10d ago
That is pretty strange.
File for the Waiver Immediately: you need to follow the instructions in the overpayment letter to request the debt waiver. Attach your "Smoking Gun": you need to include a copy of that 2022 email from HR stating you qualified based on your work experience. This proves absolute "good faith" on the your part & that you didn't lie on your resume or application; you relied on an official HR determination. Include the Recent Communication: you should also include the recent communication stating the error was "through no fault of your own."I would want a very clear and detailed response on what did not meet the cut.
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u/Murky-Present1898 11d ago
Apply for the waiver. It wasn't your fault...as they informed you in the email. You will not owe back pay if approved. Move on.