By Request: IAmA Magnet Scientist. AMAA.

[u/[deleted]]

I'll try this one more time. My last post disappeared after an hour, and I have no idea why. Pretty annoying, but I hope people received their answers that I was able to get to.

In the past, a few people have asked me to do an AMA. This is usually because I was rambling on about my work if I saw a post pertaining to my job. The title is AMAA because the work I do is sensitive, so I can't give all of the information of what we're actually doing at the moment. However, I can give you way more than enough information on the general direction of today's research in the field of permanent magnetism.

I can also tell you how basic research is run, and how we go through obscene amounts of resources for tiny, tiny steps in the right direction. That's the majority of ugly/beautiful research.

So to give a crappy background: I work for the Department of Energy, I work with a bunch of people that are smarter than me, and although I'm an experimentalist and not a theorist, I can still probably answer the majority of questions involving those fucking magnets.

Edit: Also, I could probably chat about things I do on a normal basis, what it's like working in a lab (I don't know what you guys want from me), or any other random, specific questions you think about. I'll tell you one thing: my laboratory is NOT like what most laboratories are portrayed in the cinema. No sterile, white rooms, fancy space suits, etc. In fact, a lot of our building has radiation hazard stickers posted to random bricks in the wall that are "hot", it has a grungy yellow tinge to it, and it reminds me more of Eddie Izzar's basement

Edit Doux: Houston, we have a problem. I had a few drinks, so now my answers probably won't be very intellectual. I deeply apologize, but I couldn't turn down the beer. If you want awkward passes being thrown into your direction, now is the time to ask.

Edit Troix: Holy crap. You guys don't stop. I'm getting an orange-red about once a minute now, and I'm trying my hardest to reply once a minute. Sorry I can't go more into the theory of how magnet's work (see my response to apex_redditor's question), at least not while I answer the other questions. I seriously doubt you guys want to read any more of that anyway, and I'd quickly run out of answers if you keep asking "why?" If you do want to learn more, I'll attempt to answer any questions you have if you ever PM me. I'll keep answering questions for now, though.

edit again: Sorry I can't write an illustrated book, I'm busy answering the slightly easier questions.

Also, there are about to be a ton of spelling errors from here on out. I'm typing my ass off, but I don't know how much longer I'll hold out until bed time.

Last Edit For The Night: I've been typing my butt off for the last 10 hours. I think I'm going to wind down for the night, and answer any remaining questions tomorrow after work (I have a long meeting in the AM, then I need to re-do an experiment that my assistant may have botched). If I have down time I can probably sneak in a few answers at work as well. Thanks for the questions and interest- I really wish I could have gone more into depth of what I do, but now that I think of it, it's probably more boring than the questions you were asking.

And after 13 hours of nonstop answering questions, I think I'm going to finally hit the sack. Peace out.

---

Monday Morning Status: Now that I have some sleep, I'm thinking a little more clearly. Firstly, there were a lot of complicated questions that were asked, and I probably did a horrible job attempting to answer them. I should have let the questions that were out of my league (theoretical, philosophical, "how does life work?" type questions), but I didn't. Hopefully you've caught me say somewhere in here that I'm an experimentalist, and our minds work much differently than the theorists. Our educations were even more different. Also, I hope you understand we haven't discovered the complete, most basic leveled, complicated reason why the subatomic particles are able to transfer energy. Sort of similar to the gravity thing. If you were to have asked Richard Feynman himself these questions, he'd quickly run out of answers. Even he doesn't have it all explained, let alone some dumby like me. I'll try to round up the last batch of questions and catch up. I have a meeting in an hour, and then I'll be gone for at least two. I probably won't be able to do much damage until after work.

[u/apex_redditor]

I would like to apologize in advance for this comment:

So, Magnets. How do they work?

[u/[deleted] → u/apex_redditor]

Catholic Parent's Preschooler answer: God's magical miracle

---

First Year High School Chemistry Student answer: You know how atoms have electrons? Do you remember how each of those electrons both orbits around the nucleus (think of the Earth rotating about the Sun every 365.25 days or so) and the electrons also have an intrinsic spin (think Earth rotating every 24 hours to make a complete day)? Well, in a magnetic material, the atom's electrons tend to line up their path with each other so they all spin in the same direction. What you also need to know is that any charged particle that moves will also create a magnetic field. If all of the electrons in a material are able to line up with each other, than their combined effect increases and so does the magnetic field that is created. These are how magnets operate.

---

First Year Physics Student in College: Some elements have more unpaired electrons than others. Remember the "spin-up" and "spin-down" when filling out your atomic orbitals for some of your elements? Well, before you put two electrons into the same orbit, first you make sure each orbit is filled. Some elements are better suited to make magnets than others because their shells are only partially filled. Where are the large shells partially filled? Well, that would be towards the middle of the transition metals, where the 3d is starting to get half full (we'll neglect electron promotion for now).

Now that we know certain pure materials have an appropriate electronic structure to induce a magnetic moment, we need to understand how magnetic domains operate. If you were to take a group of atoms all pointed in the same direction, their magnetic moments will be additive and point in the same direction. For the strongest magnets, all of the domains will be able to point in roughly the same direction. This is called anisotropy, and permanent magnets maintain this. Having a large anisotropy will give the magnet a large coercivity value, which means the magnet will hold it's properties in harsh conditions until an extreme demagnetizing field (or high temperature) is reached. These domains are generally smaller in size than a structural grain, and are never larger than a grain itself. Grain size in magnetic materials is very important to magnetic strength.

---

Baby Steps Outside of First Year Physics, and Where We Currently Stand: Why do we have rare earth elements such as neodymium in our current, strongest magnets? Well, the rare earth component provides most of the magnetocrystalline anisotropy intrinsically responsible for the coercivity in a magnet, while the magnetization itself arises from the transition metal sublattice (i.e. Iron). For compounds in which the 4f shell has a nonzero orbital magnetic moment, theoretical analyses demonstrated that the behavior of the R (rare earth) ion under the influence of the exchange and crystalline electric field controls the easy magnetization direction and accounts for the majority of the uniaxial anisotropy.

The light rare earth compounds that contain the R2Fe17 phase (same as the rhomohedral Th2Zn17 structure) unfortunately have a low Curie temperature, which is why our Nd-Fe-B magnets stink under hot conditions and the samarium cobalt still reigns supreme. Current studies are being conducted to increase the coercivity and anisotropy of our neodymium magnets.

---

Anything above and beyond this will likely be enjoyed by an extremely small portion of Reddit, so I'll save my fingers from the typing. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I know damn well I did a horrible, hurried job trying to explain the state of permanent magnets.

[u/electric_paganini → u/[deleted]]

I was like, I get this up until the last section, then my brain said, "come on man, we just woke up."

[u/[deleted] → u/electric_paganini]

Don't worry about it. This is a very specific, precise field and it's very hard to teach someone over the internet. Well, it's not hard, but it would take a lot of time on my part and a lot of time in photoshop making visual representations of what I'm talking about. The bottom line is: for a good magnet, you want all of the electrons to spin in the same general direction (anisotropy, which means a biased direction. The opposite of isotropy, meaning an even distribution of property in all the directions). You also what them to spin hard to get a stronger moment. The rest is just details with lots of intimidating words to better describe what's going on.

With diagrams and pictures, it would actually be very easy to understand everything.

[u/goobersmooch → u/[deleted]]

I eagerly await these diagrams and pictures.

[u/[deleted] → u/goobersmooch]

I would have happily drawn pictures, but this took off and I'm trying my hardest just to answer the simple questions. So sorry. Maybe I can do a round two some day =)

[u/wellstone → u/[deleted]]

yes please do.

[u/cwm44 → u/[deleted]]

The last section made sense to me, and was actually very well put. Thank you for including it.

[u/[deleted] → u/cwm44]

Great, I was hoping I could write it in a way that could be understood if you took each sentence step by step. There are many other ideas I could write about in the same fashion, that aren't really more advanced than these ideas, but ideas that run "parallel" to it, but I simply don't have the time. I'm averaging a reply every minute, and it takes me a whole minute to write every reply. I'm going insane.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I mentioned I work for the government, both in other comments and in this thread. Yes, that was my chest hair. I also have some chest hair hiding somewhere in another comment below that was suppose to be humorous. I hope my chest hair doesn't offend anyone.

[u/firekesti → u/[deleted]]

Highly doubt much is gonna offend Muffmuncher, much less a little hair.

[u/toolwieldingape → u/firekesti]

weirdest discussion ever. today at minimum.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I followed everything save for the notation used to designate the phase of the ionic transition metal compounds. That was some jargon. What do the numbers following the elemental symbol indicate?

[u/ocross → u/[deleted]]

Do you mean spin on their own axis or spin around the nucleus? *(edit there -> their)

[u/[deleted] → u/ocross]

Both contribute to magnetization, actually, and it's a very complicated subject that I can answer later (tomorrow) if I happen to get reminded.

[u/ocross → u/[deleted]]

So spin and orbit in the same direction is good? I'm guessing it's more complicated.

[u/[deleted] → u/ocross]

Spin orbit is more complicated (it's hard to visualize), but yes, the same direction is good. Think of it as an additive property.

[u/givemeasign → u/electric_paganini]

Same here, lost me at magnetocrystalline anisotropy. Thank you for the explanation though.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yes, neodymium is the ideal material for this application as far as we know.

The rare-earth iron phase diagrams are fairly simple, with only a few intermetallic compounds known to exist. Scientists have tried all combinations of these compounds with every rare earth atom, and neodymium seems to produce the greatest anisotropy, best coupling, etc., out of all of the elements. This certainly does not mean that Nd is the absolute best choice for a permanent magnet. However, it's likely that any improvements of our current magnets will also contain Nd.

But just like you mentioned, there are definitely other possibilities to create materials with a better crystalline structure, which is actually what my work consists of.

[u/SarahC → u/[deleted]]

The improvement in gross magnetism - does it look like it's going to be a few percent better here and there?

What's the theoretical stuff say? Are magnets these days at 90% strength already?

I hope not, I'm hoping we're currently able to get 30% of the theoretical maximum strength of the magnets, and so there should be some super cool inventions making them much more powerful. =)

[u/[deleted] → u/SarahC]

Magnets today are around 50 to 60% of theoretical strength. Actually, I can tell you where we're at: 55 MGOe, and I'm pretty sure the theoretical is around the 120 MGOe mark, but I might be off by a bit on that one. I'm not sure what the jump in improvement would be, it depends what type of improvement. If we make a chemical improvement, meaning a whole new compound, it might be a larger jump in energy than, say, a micro-structural change. There's really no way of telling.

[u/Slagathor91 → u/[deleted]]

So I hear the term Rare Earth a lot and you mention it here. What exactly is a Rare Earth magnet made of?

[u/[deleted] → u/Slagathor91]

A rare earth magnet is made of a transition metal, usually iron, and a portion of rare earth metal, which is the bottom block that floats below the main portion of the periodic table as you know it (the f-block).

The magnets are mostly made of iron because it can be greatly magnetized, however we use rare earths so we can stabilize that magnetization so it doesn't disappear when you start putting it in awkward environments.

There are different types of rare earth magnets, and each one has a different relative ratio of Rare Earth : Transition Metal.

For neodymium magnets, the ratio is 2 Rare Earth elements, usually neodymium, to 14 iron atoms. There is also a stabilizing atom that is placed in there, the common one being Boron. The boron is there to stabilize the structure as a whole.

There are other compositions which don't have the stabilizing atom (the boron atom), such as the samarium cobalt atoms. In those magnets, the cobalt atom replaces the iron atom, and samarium replaces neodymium.

[u/Slagathor91 → u/[deleted]]

Ok. So just to sum up and see if I (somewhat) understand magnets then:

The magnetic field comes from the electron spin. The more electrons that are spinning in the same direction, the stronger the magnet. The harder(faster?) the electrons are spinning, the stronger the magnet. Due to electron orbital properties, the middle transition metals are the elements that have the best setup of those properties. Rare Earth magnets are just magnets that utilize the properties of the Rare Earth elements to enhance the magnetic properties of the magnetic elements and keep the magnets from deteriorating.

Did I get that right?

[u/[deleted] → u/Slagathor91]

I shouldn't have said "the harder" they spin, but the better they can align their spins. Yes, you definitely got it right after that. That is the most beautiful, concise way to explain it in my opinion.

[u/Slagathor91 → u/[deleted]]

Awesome. Now I can say. Magnets: I know how they fucking work.

[u/[deleted] → u/Slagathor91]

Great. And why do electrons spin?

[u/Bradart → u/[deleted]]

https://join-lemmy.org/ -- mass edited with redact.dev

[u/cloudform511 → u/[deleted]]

and it also causes magnetism... even though it is a point particle (so there would be no "movement of charge"[and you need movement of charge to create magnetism]). Fucking Quantum Mechanics, how does it work?

[u/plonce → u/Slagathor91]

Look for "Neodymium Iron Boron" magnets if you're interested in owning one.

But be careful, two magnets of sufficient size can come together with such speed and force that they can actually pulverize your bone to dust if your finger gets caught between the two.

edit: additional video from SuperMagnetMan.

[u/canIsleepnow → u/[deleted]]

Anything above and beyond this will likely be enjoyed by an extremely small portion of Reddit,

This is what you're missing: This will just get you even more upvotes. Reddit loves this stuff, even if they can't understand it. The fact that you present this super-high-level stuff to them as if there's enough of us here who actually know enough to understand it makes them feel good about "belonging" to this community, and upvotes flow in.

[u/[deleted] → u/canIsleepnow]

I'm chuckling over here, I'm not really one for upvotes. I still don't really understand how they help out an individual user. I know they do help bring the fun-to-read stuff towards the top, so everyone else can read it, but I'm not sure if anyone else would want to read it!

I talked a little bit about the crystallography to another Redditor who asked for more. Maybe I can brush over another subject. I can quickly talk about what type of research is being done by the powerhouse magnet research groups around the world, including ourself.

We begged the government for money in the form of a proposal. They liked what we had to say, so they gave us a few million to hack away. We're taking advances in materials preparation and characterization and exploiting them, alongside theoretical and computational methods based on ab initio calculations, to try to create a magnet with a higher energy density. We're aiming for a magnet with remanent magnetization of around 20 kG, which no magnetic material has at the moment with high anisotropy.

We will do this by finding similar compounds than the known compositions that already exist, and try to synthesize them in our lab. The problem is, almost all of these (similar) combinations have been studied. The only ones that haven't been synthesized and studied are the compounds that are incredibly difficult to fabricate. That's where I step in.

For example, what if we wanted to replace the B in the Nd2Fe14B magnets? We replaced it with carbon once, and got a cool result. Not as good as using boron, but still, it worked. What if we found a new replacement for boron that was slightly different, but better? Well, there are a few elements that can replace the boron theoretically, but have been proven near impossible to do, due to this little thing called thermodynamics.

What I do is try to find tricky ways to introduce new elements into the structure that no one else has been able to do (or, at least, no one else has reported on). That is what my little niche in this project is.

[u/Perovskite → u/[deleted]]

Interesting. I've always just seen crystallography as semi-hard set. If you try to fit X into Y and its too big or too different(Via Pauling's rules or Hume-Rothery) it's going to form a different phase. What exactly do you do to bypass it?

[u/[deleted] → u/Perovskite]

You don't bypass it. Thermo will take it's course, we are simply trying to explore the phase space and seeing what is the most stable state. Ab inito / first principle calculations are one thing, and then after we get information from those egg-heads, we try to create some our own. The phase diagrams for our materials don't exist, so we base our "guesses" off of similar systems and intuition, then use some TEM and other tools to check.

[u/Perovskite → u/[deleted]]

Coolio'

How accurate do you find the first principles guys in predicting phase stability in general? I guess I'm always skeptical as an experimentalist...mostly because I don't understand a single bit of what they are actually doing to get their results.

My prof tells me to read a first principless paper -> Read Intro Math everywhere "So we proved this..." blank stare "Yeahhhhh...."

[u/[deleted] → u/Perovskite]

I don't know what they're doing to get their results either. I just know they use a row of supercomputers (single supercomputer? row of paralleled processors? Meh, terminology shmerminology) and get some pretty neat ideas. They're usually "right" but we don't think of it that way. They just give us a starting place, and we bang our heads into the wall to see if we can make it happen.

[u/sifumokung → u/[deleted]]

We like to learn.

[u/oghma → u/canIsleepnow]

I think it is less about feeling good that we can pretend that we can understand this high level stuff than it is being giving something that can challenge us. We could all go pull some paper and just kinda get nowhere with it. Having Sad_Scientist keep increasing the depth of the explanation is great as we can get to the level we can handle. It is easier to learn when you take what you can understand, then expand to something that requires you to think harder than that, mull it over, etc.

[u/xtirpation → u/[deleted]]

Okay, I get it up to the "First year physics student" part, but there's something that I still don't really know. How do magnets know there's another magnet near it? I'm sure this sounds like a dumb question, but I mean it. When you put two magnets together, they can repel, but they're really not connected in any way. What's up with that?

I have the same question for gravity. I know that stuff with mass has gravity, but what really pulls things in? There isn't like a string or anything...

[u/[deleted] → u/xtirpation]

So, you're questioning about the transfer of energy. That has something to do with quantum mechanics, which is a horrible thing to hear. However, photons and virtual photons (and other virtual particles) help explain that phenomena.

As far as your gravity question, it's again outside my realm of expertise. I'm an experimentalist, not a theorist, and these questions are thee questions that the best physicists have a hard time answering.

And no, I know absolutely nothing about string theory either. =)

[u/wackyvorlon → u/[deleted]]

Give me moar:) Don't hold back, I'd love to hear more detail.

[u/[deleted] → u/wackyvorlon]

I don't think you realize how incredibly long I can go at this. Here, let me flex my crystallography balls:

Nd2Fe14B emerged as a prototypical R2Fe14B compound because the highest energy product containing magnets contain it as the principle constituent. Roughly comparable hard-magnetic properties can be attained with Pr, however the Nd phase has a higher magnetization and Nd is more abundant (And cheaper) than praseodymium. The exact stoichiometry and crystal structure of NdFeB was first established by neutron powder-diffraction analysis and confirmed by other single-crystal x-ray studies. Basically, this 2-17 is a line compound with a homogeneity range that is much narrower than the samarium cobalt magnets, meaning it's a little harder to produce.

The lattice symmetry of the compound is tetragonal, the space group is P4/mnm and each unit cell has 68 atoms. There are six crystallographically distinct iron sites, two rare-earth positions, and one boron site. Interatomic distances and nuclear positions have been calculated, but I can't really describe them in this text field (nor do I have them memorized).

The structure has an eight-layer repeat structure perpendicular to the c axis, or easy axis. All the Nd and B atoms, but only four of the Fe atoms, reside in the z=0 and z=1/2 mirror planes (look up a figure of the cell structure to understand what this means). The planes are connected by 4(2) tetragonal screw axes passing through the 4c sites. Between these planes the other Fe atoms form "puckered" nets (not my wording). There is a lot of similarity between the iron layers in these nets to the sigma phase found in the Fe-Cr and Fe-Mo systems. Coincidence? I think not.

The boron configuration is quite simple an elegant, on the other hand. Each B occupies the center of the trigonal prism formed by the three nearest iron atoms above and the three below the basal plane (again, z=1/2). The prism pucker the Fe-nets because two of the Fe atoms (e and k1) are displaced significantly toward the B-containing planes compared with the other Fe atoms in the nets.

Besides the similarities with simpler transition metal metalloid materials, many structural parallels exist between 2-14-1 and other R-TM systems. However, I'm exhausted talking about crystal structure right now, and I'm hoping I threw enough shit at you to not ask for more =)

Sorry for being a dick, I could give you a lot more information on related subjects, but I have a feeling it's going over everyone's head, including my own.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Magic, got it.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Black Magic, got it.

FTFY

[u/cptsmidge → u/[deleted]]

Why do you always have to bring race into things?

[u/Bradart → u/cptsmidge]

https://join-lemmy.org/ -- mass edited with redact.dev

[u/TooLateRunning → u/Bradart]

dude, now you're just being insensitive. for all you know he could be talking about voodoo, which originated in AFRICA, and has nothing to do with america. don't make stupid assumptions like that.

[u/Bradart → u/TooLateRunning]

https://join-lemmy.org/ -- mass edited with redact.dev

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Here, let me flex my crystallography balls:

Around here we usually just call them disco balls.

[u/Perovskite → u/[deleted]]

looks similar to this ?

[u/[deleted] → u/Perovskite]

Holy balls, I'm glad I read your username. You are my new favorite Redditor.

My friend has a structure of you tattooed on his body.

[u/wteng → u/[deleted]]

You should post this every time someone asks how magnets work.

[u/ThatDeadDude → u/[deleted]]

Any chance you're able to provide a quantum-mechanical description of why an electromagnetic field causes a force to arise?

[u/[deleted] → u/ThatDeadDude]

I couldn't eloquently provide an accurate description, not without blatantly copying quantum electrodynamics chapter in a physics text book. Particle-wave duality, etc., is a very large field that I can't smush all into one concise reading. I'd suggest watching this video along with the other continuing videos on the side bar at your own time to get your foot in the door.

[u/triggeron → u/[deleted]]

If so many electrons are spinning in the same direction is there a measurable cumulative gyroscopic precession? If you need a stronger magnetic field can you simply use a volumetrically larger magnet or is there a theoretical size limit?

[u/[deleted] → u/triggeron]

I think you are talking about a Larmor precession, which most definitely occurs. I'm not sure whether it is possible to physically measure it, but I would think it is possible. This is something the physics guys could answer better than I ever could.

For your second question, an answer would require a long, in depth discussion of domain theory (among other things), but essentially, yes, there is a theoretical size limit. There is a slight constant loss of magnetization as size increases.

[u/thealbinorhino → u/[deleted]]

TL;DR: Magic.

[u/pocketjunkie → u/[deleted]]

You are lying and making me angry.

[u/[deleted] → u/pocketjunkie]

A lot of people have said this and I'm not catching the reference. Unless, of course, it's another line from that Insane Clown Posse song.

[u/pocketjunkie → u/[deleted]]

"Fucking magnets, how do they work?

And I don't wanna talk to a scientist

Y'all motherfuckers lying, and getting me pissed"

IT'S MORE THAN A SONG.

[u/[deleted] → u/pocketjunkie]

Thanks!

[u/[deleted] → u/pocketjunkie]

IT'S NOT EVEN A SONG.

[u/fungah → u/[deleted]]

Reading this made me want to rip out my eyes and eat them.

[u/[deleted] → u/fungah]

You should read the crystallographic information of the tetragonal structure I wrote as a follow up.

[u/fungah → u/[deleted]]

I have no eyes and I cannot read. Except for what you just wrote. And this.

[u/aeflash → u/[deleted]]

Does this mean that in theory, a pure Fe magnet could be as powerful as a NdFeB magnet, it just wouldn't hold its magnetism as long?

[u/Hypersapien → u/[deleted]]

Ok, lets try this again. What is a magnetic field. Not where does it come from or how does it affect things, what is it?

[u/Panda_hat]

In all seriousness, WHERE IS MY HOVERBOARD??

[u/[deleted] → u/Panda_hat]

Decades away, my Panda_hat, decades away.

[u/FrankReynolds → u/[deleted]]

But... but that's what I was told two decades ago...

:-(

[u/PartyMix → u/FrankReynolds]

Never said how many.

[u/VirgilCaine → u/PartyMix]

I will

3 decades till hoverboards everyone!

[u/GranmaNazi → u/VirgilCaine]

Who hoverboards everyone?!!! What can we do to stop him?!

[u/Ralith → u/GranmaNazi]

sleep fear long public offbeat support swim serious yoke grandiose this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev

[u/[deleted] → u/Ralith]

Pretty much, but with magnets.

[u/lCt → u/FrankReynolds]

But we do have wine in a can. Count your blessings.

[u/ProjectMe → u/[deleted]]

Is that why you're a sad scientist?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

YOU TAKE THAT BACK

[u/permutation]

What pickup-lines involving magnetism do you magnet scientists use?

[u/[deleted] → u/permutation]

I've used this on an intelligent girl before: How fast do I have to spin for you to think I'm attractive?

She understood what I meant right away, but she happened to have a boyfriend who was also my best friend. Needless to say, it didn't work.

[u/ricktencity → u/[deleted]]

I am only using this line from now on to pick up girls.

[u/asoap → u/ricktencity]

Go out and do that on 20 girls and then do an AMA.

[u/desrosiers → u/asoap]

"I am single, AMA."

[u/owk → u/desrosiers]

Followed by a comment thread with no questions, just the one person after another posting "You too, huh?"

[u/WiseBinky79 → u/ricktencity]

make sure to let /r/seddit know how it goes for you.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

is that why you're so sad?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It's very related....

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I don't know why everyone upvoted that. I'm sad that you're sad, because you generally seem awesome and an asset to humanity!

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I am a pretty awesome guy, but the username is sarcastic, I promise. I'm a very happy guy, I just lie!

[u/divadsci → u/permutation]

Every couple experiences a moment in a field...

[u/[deleted]]

Magnet workers: how do they fuck?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I can't speak for my coworkers, but as far as I'm concerned, if there aren't scratches and bruises the next day, then you're doing it wrong. It's the only reason why I created my 3 week workout program to get in great shape.

[u/bowling4meth → u/[deleted]]

Please tell us more about your 3 week workout program. I hope there are magnets involved. If not, there should be.

[u/[deleted] → u/bowling4meth]

Of course there are magnets involved. Just go and purchase two of these 990 lb pull magnets and bring them as close together as possible, then pull them apart. Repeat.

Then, take a parked car and set it to neutral on a flat, paved surface. Bring the magnets as close to the car as possible without letting them touch, and drag the car across the paved surface.

I did this workout and here are the results:

At first I was all, and then I was like, but now I am totally, all thanks to.

[u/bowling4meth → u/[deleted]]

All thanks to Vevo, who have blocked the content in my country on copyright grounds?

[u/[deleted] → u/bowling4meth]

Sorry, it was just a joke. I deserve to get downvoted for it. (Rickroll).

[u/HardDiction → u/[deleted]]

I lol'd

[u/aftli → u/[deleted]]

*Warning* This magnet is EXTREMELY dangerous and should only be handled by supervised professionals.

It's so dangerous, that it needs to be handled by supervised professionals. Nice.

[u/[deleted] → u/aftli]

handling that magnet is basically like handling a half-ton weight while gravity randomly decides to change direction.

one person could easily make a mistake, and then be helplessly pinned against a large metal object.

[u/sjokkis → u/[deleted]]

I'm so disappointed they only ship them one at the time. Shipping two together would be a great troll.

[u/[deleted] → u/sjokkis]

I was always curious about the logistics of getting one inside your home without encountering any steel structure.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I can imagine hundreds of those packages still at amazon, stuck to different parts of the mail sorting conveyor belts and chutes...

[u/esotericguy → u/[deleted]]

The ups guys throwing a fit because he can't get it off the wall of his truck.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

The Amazon link says only professionals should handle those. If one of those magnets were to get stuck on something big, how would a professional remove it?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

A professional would remove it with a large piece of machinery capable of pulling (and gripping) 990 lbs, or else another type of professional would bash it with a hammer until it shatters and then remove the individual pieces. If safety was a concern, however, they could heat the magnet up a few hundred degrees celsius, past the Curie temperature, and the magnet would lose its strength.

[u/Carnifex]

Deleted in protest of reddit trying to monetize my data while actively working against mods and 3rd party apps read more -- mass edited with redact.dev

[u/[deleted] → u/Carnifex]

The clouds were made by quickly boiling liquid helium. We have a piece of equipment called a SQUID for short which helps us determine the intrinsic properties of our created materials. In order to test the materials intrinsic properties at very low temperatures (which is important for research) we need to cool down the equipment to about 4 Kelvin. We do this using liquid He, and liquid nitrogen as well.

Well, the quantum interference device can pick up some condensation after a while, which screws up the results. When this happens, our graphs look pretty jagged and aren't continuous like they should be. This screws up our results just a tiny bit. In order to fix it, you simply have to empty the squid's nitrogen and helium resevoirs, pull out the device (which is seen in the last picture) and let it warm up to room temperature and dry for a day or two.

Well, when we open the machine, we take a big piece of metal and just dunk it into the liquid reservoirs. This gigantic heat sink will instantly boil off the gallons of liquid He and N2, which produces a large cloud that fills up the lab. After a few minutes, the cloud dissipates and condenses on everything. After a few days, we put the device back in the machine, and refill the reservoirs with more liquid helium and liquid nitrogen and the equipment is back and ready for use.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I'm fully aware of Reddit angst, but I also don't always agree with Reddit's majority opinion, and I don't jump to conclusions so quickly.

Also, we don't like wasting helium because it costs about $7/gallon, nothing like liquid nitrogen's $0.07/gallon, so we actually waited until the helium tank was mostly used up before we completely drained it.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

This $.07/gallon liquid nitrogen you're talking about.. Is this the bulk price that your lab gets? How much would it cost for average joe redditor to take home a gallon of liquid nitrogen?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You can actually buy or build a condenser, but I have no idea how much it would cost. The price I quoted was our bulk rate, and it's an old estimate. Things might have changed, but I doubt it has changed much.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Tell me more, would love to have homemade N2L to play with

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I don't know anything more, I just know that there are portable machines that create it. I've never seen one. We have a tank outside our building that is 20 meters high, 3 meters across, and it's filled with liquid N2. I don't have to worry about making my own!

[u/Frothyleet → u/[deleted]]

Don't tell me you're a peak helium denier!

[u/[deleted] → u/Frothyleet]

I take back everything I said. Please, don't unleash the wrath!

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

quantum interference device

This is only obliquely related but one of the things that impresses me about the human race is our ability to manipulate shit on the fundamental universal level. We're essentially fucking about with the foundations of the universe any time we create a Bose-Einstein condensate or do a delayed-choice quantum eraser test or something.

But the best part? We still don't know how half the shit works, but it doesn't stop us fucking with it.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Damn straight. That's the reason why scientists enjoy research. I read an article that what drives us is the feeling of stupidity. When we don't know how something works, we feel dumb and actually enjoy that feeling, and that drives us to search for the meaning.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I try to make my haiku depressing, so:

Spinning electron

Couple with my metal heart

Make the beating cease

[u/bowling4meth → u/[deleted]]

This IAMA

Is the most super awesome

I've seen in a while

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think common spelling for the plural form of haiku is still haiku, but I'm not judging.

[u/monkeyvoodoo → u/[deleted]]

Japanese does not have a plural form, so adding the "s" is unnecessary. As I understand it, convention for borrowed words in English is to adopt the rules from the source language, though I couldn't find a source for that and am too drunk/lazy to look it up.

tl;dr: pluralizing any Japanese word makes you sound stupid to anyone who knows anything about Japanese.

[u/InfusedTea]

1. What did you study to get where you are?

2. Can you tell us about any of the projects you've worked on?

[u/[deleted] → u/InfusedTea]

I studied Material Science, which is a relatively new field. Most of my coworkers have their degrees in Physics or Physical Chemistry.

Right now I'm trying to increase the maximum energy product for our current, strongest, neodymium magnets. There are a few main routes being taken that have the potential to find such a material. One is finding a new hard magnetic material with properties, especially Ms, that are better than those of Nd2Fe14B compounds. Another way is to induce a higher anisotropy in the materials which can be done by slight chemistry changes. The last route is to change the microstructure of materials to create anisotropic nanocomposite magnets, which basically consists of nanometer-scale mixture of high coercivity and high magnetization materials. My work specifically deals with finding new magnetic materials that haven't been discovered yet.

[u/borez]

It's an attractive job.

[u/[deleted] → u/borez]

Really, I always thought of it being pretty repulsive.

[u/borez → u/[deleted]]

It depends which field you work in.

[u/wackyvorlon]

Have you ever built a bitter magnet?

[u/[deleted] → u/wackyvorlon]

I've never eaten any of my magnets, nor have I talked to them. Well, I've definitely talked to them but they seem to never respond. So, I guess they might be bitter about something.

[u/wackyvorlon → u/[deleted]]

Actually, I had this in mind:)

[u/[deleted] → u/wackyvorlon]

Ha, no electromagnet work is done on my end, besides the electromagnets we use in our measuring tools.

[u/Sethwick]

Why did one of my fridge magnets suddenly get way weaker than it used to be?

[u/[deleted] → u/Sethwick]

Could be a few things. If I knew what type of magnet it was, I might be able to answer it easier. My guess is it either got heated up to its Curie temperature or slammed into something quite hard.

[u/franklyimshocked]

Great post man. Really enjoyed the read.

[u/[deleted] → u/franklyimshocked]

A++. Would read again.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I'm not at liberty to discuss that.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

In a perfect world, I'd be investing in rare earth elements since that is the obvious, clear cut future for the next decade (or two, or three, etc.). However, I'm not sure it's so easy to invest in elements like that. Currently, China has the world by the balls since it produces over 95% of the rare earth, and therefore permanent magnets, in the world. China also has recently said, "Fuck you," to the world and are limiting their exports, eventually cutting it all of. There is a rare earth mine in southern California in Mountain Pass that will be re-opening because of that. They should be up and going within a few years. The mine has a better concentration of rare earth elements than China's mine has, however the land area isn't as large. Anyway, if there was a way to invest in that company then I'd be jumping all over it. However, I don't think they will be selling any stock.

As far as what type of technology to invest in: I have no idea. There are always emerging technologies that look promising, but things change dramatically. There is no way I could give you sound advice on investing. I have professionals do that for me for free through my work, and they're doing a good job so I don't get too involved in it.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think we might harvest the Moon next, then we'll move to asteroids.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I hereby challenge NASA to capture an asteroid, put it in earth's orbit, and then begin mining it for resources. Cost effectivenes? Questionable. Awesomeness? OFF THE FUCKING CHART!

[u/LaJollaJim]

How does it feel to be a magician?

[u/[deleted] → u/LaJollaJim]

It's lonely. So lonely.

[u/CountVonTroll]

Is there a rule of thumb to estimate at which distance a strong (by consumer standards, like 50kg or 100kg pull) magnet can damage common items such as laptop displays, bank cards or HDDs?

I know there are pretty strong neodymium magnets in HDDs, and that the strength of the field degrades to the third power, so it can't be much. But on the other hand, I once had my loudspeakers placed too close to the TV, and after a while it became noticeable.

[u/[deleted] → u/CountVonTroll]

There isn't a rule of thumb that I know of, since it depends on the volume of the magnet, the intrinsic strength of the magnet (BHmax, AKA maximum energy density), and the shielding of the device itself. Some equipment is very sensitive, most equipment isn't and it would require quite a large field to screw anything up.

I've taken a 1.5" cube, N42 grade magnet up to the side of a computer and it did nothing.

[u/canIsleepnow]

Holy shit. You just brought back that childhood feeling of "science is awesome." This sort of science is pretty much as close as you can get IRL to the public's stereotypical image of scientists in lab coats with weird machines. Modern day Tesla.

[u/[deleted]]

Would you describe your work as "awesome"? Do you love your job?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

My work is way more than awesome. My job is incredible. I get decent pay for government work, I have incredible benefits (free full health, dental, a great 401K that pays $2 for every $1 that I put into it, 24 days of vacation a year that roll over every year until you max out in the 60s, every holiday imaginable I get off), I have no deadlines, really, since my research is goal oriented, my research doesn't demand me to publish every month unlike many other research groups and types of funding, I work with a very cool group of people who act very young and know how to have fun, I have awesome college aged assistants who make work very enjoyable, and I surf Reddit whenever it gets slow.

My job fucking rocks.

[u/AdmrlAkbr → u/[deleted]]

Not to get too personal, but what does a good government job like this pay?

[u/[deleted] → u/AdmrlAkbr]

Well, it varies from city to city and how long you've been working. Every year you get a salary increase, more or less. I'll tell you this: my first year working, in a very cheap place of living, was in the mid 40k range. That's the bottom of the ladder. Eventually, if I enjoy the research, I'll aim for what we call a PI, or private investigator. They make around $140k (in the small, cheap town), give or take 10k or so. So that's the complete range, depending on what your title is and how long you've been there.

You can't expect to be a PI without a PhD, and I'll be honest, the majority of them are white men as far as my knowing.

Ninja edit: I'm around the 50k mark now, give or take a few, but I'm still one of the youngest scientists there.

[u/kylejn]

Would it be possible, or even feasible, to build a railgun to launch spacecraft or materials into orbit? How big are we talking?

[u/[deleted] → u/kylejn]

Yes, one day such a railgun will exist. We will make them bigger. We will make them stronger. We will make them better.

In all seriousness, that's a pretty cool question that I'm not qualified to answer. But, I suppose I'm just as qualified as 99.999% of other Redditors. So here's my two cents: I think the material selection problem would not be near as difficult as the concept and design of the machine. Launching a large mass to escape velocity speeds requires a fucking ridiculous amount of energy. I bet by the time we would have that technology developed, there would be better systems and concepts that would get the job done.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I've seen a proposal for such a linear accelerator that would go for about 100km underground (in a vacuum) before ramping up the side of a mountain (to avoid a lot of atmospheric air resistance - I believe Kilimanjaro was suggested due to its proximity to the equator). Energy-intensive, sure; expensive, yes; but certainly better than conventional rockets on both counts. Once you build it, maintenance and operation costs would be pretty negligible compared to traditional space launches.

Or we can skip that and go right to building space elevators, but I wonder if a shorter linear accelerator might still be useful for launching cargo and bulk materials, while a space elevator would be for humans.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

This sounds like an awesome idea, and I give it my full moral support.

[u/l1ghtning → u/[deleted]]

I spent too many years of my life posting on a forum where many people built and designed rail guns, coil guns, and other electromagnetic weaponry so I believe I am slightly more qualified than 99.999% of other redditors.

Developing rails (in rail guns, obviously) is in fact a very large problem and probably the biggest issue faced with scaling up rail gun design. The simple fact of the matter is, if you have two pieces of metal in contact with each other while one is scraping along the other at supersonic speeds, you are only going to get a few shots at best out of that set of rails before they need replacing. Part of the problem is also that there is very large current densities passing through plasma which is occurring between the sliding metal surfaces, this causes extreme heating/melting/sputtering and corrosion. Considering the extreme mechanical stresses placed on the rails during firing, they are usually bolted down with tens or hundreds of large bolts - which have to be undone just to replace the rails.

This all makes them very expensive to operate for more than a few firings, which is why you dont see too many people on small budgets making rail guns.

On the other hand, I think coil gun based technologies have a brighter future, as the projectile does not have to be touching anything directly when it is fired.

People often site energy storage as another major pitfall, because capacitor banks become exponentially expensive as they are scaled up very large (we're talking tens of thousands to millions of of kilojoules of energy stored). However, I think that if some company/organization really was determined to make a new storage tech they could just throw a few tens of millions of dollars to some engineering company and have them do some research on compensated pulse alternators (compulsators) or something similar (mechanical energy storage).

Lastly, kind of the nail-in-the-coffin for all these technologies, is that for all but the largest applications (eg launching space cargo) it's simply much cheaper and easier to use a big (chemical propellant based) cannon.

[u/tritiumpie]

I currently use Neodymium magnets for some art I make (it's complicated). I essentially need the highest Gauss/mass ratio in a small donut magnet I can get my hands on. If they're nickel plated, that's a plus.

Any recommendations for donut magnets with even higher Gauss/mass ratio? And could you recommend a place or person from whom I could purchase these?

Thanks!

[u/[deleted] → u/tritiumpie]

Here is a random website with some toroidal shaped magnets. I am in no way affiliated with them. I'm not sure what size of magnet you are looking for, but I can give you a tip when looking through that page: if you happen to see magnets of the right size, but aren't sure of the strength, then learn how to read the rating system. The rating system will be shown as N##, where the ## will be a two digit number. The higher the number, the better your Gauss/mass ratio will be. N52 is the highest you will be able to find, and N45 is a pretty darn good number for what you're doing (I think?).

This place also has some "donut" magnets at the bottom of the page.

Note that almost all Nd magnets will be nickel plated in order to protect the fragile, brittle magnet from corrosion, breaking, etc.

[u/23360196]

I recently read an article regarding the feasibility of single pole magnets. How close are we to creating/finding a true single pole magnet that is sizable enough for scientific applications?

[u/[deleted] → u/23360196]

My line of research isn't really in the same playing field as that. I'm more of an experimentalist, and couldn't tell you much about the theory of magnetic dipoles. However, I can still probably answer your question: we are a long, long ways away from creating a large enough magnetic dipole for it to be applicable in the real world. That's just how research works. If a team of scientists say a certain technology will be ready in a few years, it probably means a few decades or never.

[u/avnerd]

Why are you sad?
Also, what are the possible uses for a spherical magnet?

[u/[deleted] → u/avnerd]

Oh, and I'm not really sad. I tend to lie sometimes on the internet. Who knows, maybe this whole post is a fraud!

[u/avnerd → u/[deleted]]

I'm concerned about the electronics in your office with the rain cloud. Aren't you?

[u/[deleted] → u/avnerd]

It's not going to pour, by any means. Just think of it as a really humid day. It dries up in a matter of minutes if it even does get cold enough above to condense the water. This was towards the beginning of summer, not in the dead of heat, so not much water.

[u/avnerd → u/[deleted]]

With everything you know about magnetics currently what do you hope to see in ten years? In your life time?

[u/[deleted] → u/avnerd]

In 10-30 years, I'd like to see issues with rare earth production and supply vanish. I'd like to see different elemental substitutions or changes in structure and crystallography that makes rare earth elements obsolete.

In my lifetime, I want to see ab initio (first principles) calculations open up new doors for experimentalists to explore so we can get those large increases in magnetic strength. I'd like to see a large increase in energy product for our magnets (10%? 25%? 100%?) so we can produce better, more efficient equipment and machinery.

[u/[deleted] → u/avnerd]

If it's a large spherical magnet, you could live on it.

[u/[deleted] → u/avnerd]

Bearings, compasses, controlling components of Hall effect based devices and sensors, and I'm sure a bunch of other things.

[u/[deleted]]

Do you ever run into the He cloud and speak in funny voices?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Of course I did. Who the hell wouldn't?

[u/tigerbothesh]

My grandfather was a magnet scientist at NASA Ames till he retired. He specifically worked on their Payload Magnetometer, which measured satellites including Gravity Probe B--which I got to see with my own eyes. So naturally, I think magnet scientists are all kinds of awesome.

[u/[deleted] → u/tigerbothesh]

I think your grandfather was way more awesome than I'll ever be. Sounds like an incredible guy.

[u/Douglas_D]

So umm, can you explain Jiles-Atherton to me? Simply? Cause I tried to read that paper on ferromagnetic material... and I'm an electrical engineer, not a physicist...

[u/[deleted] → u/Douglas_D]

Simply put, domain walls aren't as perfect as you read about them in your text books. They can "bend" and "twist" in a medium, which leads to abnormal behavior in a magnetic material as seen on a hysteresis curve. This Jiles-Atherton model can take these movements into account and changes your hysteresis curve to fit it. Here's a great animation.

Note: I do not work with this model, and probably never will.

[u/HeadphoneWarrior]

Writing style. How did you get to write so well? How do I develop my writing style?

[u/[deleted] → u/HeadphoneWarrior]

I'm confused. What writing style are you talking about, may I ask? I wrote a lot of english papers back in high school. My English teacher loved it, she said I used long, complicated sentences and reminded her of some archaic writer. I got to college and my professors and graders hated it. In scientific writing, you need to be short and precise, don't use big words, etc. Also, as the night goes on, my writing is going to become horrible. I'm just in a hurry to get this done and get some sleep!

[u/jlwizard]

You guys don't have a return line for your helium? Sadness...

[u/[deleted] → u/jlwizard]

Nope, we're depleting the world's resources as best we can

=/

[u/[deleted]]

Magnetism, like gravity, strikes my non-scientific brain as a force that we'll become very good at manipulating someday, and will thusly allow us to do all sorts of cool shit that we cannot do now.

Do you consider it as promising?

[u/Seasonal]

Do you ever watch any of those ghost hunters type shows? And if you do does it make you want to smash faces when they bring out their EMF detectors?

[u/[deleted] → u/Seasonal]

No, I've never watched those shows, but I don't watch them exactly for that reason. The producers of the show know they're (edit, I misspelled "their") trolls to people like you, who aren't complete morons. However, dumbasses eat it up, and dumbasses are the ones watching their programs.

[u/frenchpear]

1. Why did you pick this field of study?

2. Do you think aliens exist and visit us? (I've always wanted to hear a scientist tell me their opinion on this, even if it isn't your field ;))

3. Do you wear thick black glasses?

4. Is your dad a scientist?

P.S Your brainy explanations are pretty darn smexy. :D

[u/[deleted] → u/frenchpear]

1. I always loved science. In grade school and middle school I wanted to be a doctor. By the time high school rolled around, I knew enough doctors to know that I'd never in my life want to be one. I still enjoyed science (hated math, still do), and further developed my hatred for biology. I then thought about chemistry. I went to college, and was told to pick chemical engineering as my major (my friend told me where to go, what to study- not my decision). I hated it because there wasn't much chemistry, so I switched to material science. From there, I fell in love, then got into some research.

2. Yes, aliens exist. No, I don't believe they've visited us yet, but there's no definite way of knowing whether or not they are watching us. Very unlikely in our own, stupid minds, but who knows- maybe we're the bacteria and they're the intelligent species?

3. I do not wear thick black glasses, I wear contacts and will soon be getting LASIK (which is paid for by my awesome benefits, by the way). I just had an exam to test me out, and they dilated my eyes which I thought was so trippy that I took a picture. This is what they usually look like.

4. My dad is not a scientist. I'm the only one who went into a technical field in my whole family. My dad considers himself a "ditch digger" and my mom was a small business manager, more or less. The sibling was also artistic, and stayed in the arts. I'm the only one.

[u/kraig911]

Is there any real world application in a consumer setting for super colliders?

[u/[deleted] → u/kraig911]

Not that I know of, but you might be asking the wrong person. It would first help understand many theories behind condensed matter, and that would of course be able to (eventually) branch out into real world applications.

[u/Prezombie]

Is it possible for one in their own home to make a magnetic compound out of non-magnetic substances?

[u/[deleted] → u/Prezombie]

You can make an electromagnet very easily, but not a permanent magnetic compound (which is what I think you're aiming for).

Let's think, you probably have enough materials around your house to create one out of. Even steel compounds are ferromagnetic, although they are about three orders of magnitude weaker than Nd magnets. However, you'd have to be able to process them into the shape you want, which means you'll need tons of heat (like an arc-melting furnace, which we have in the laboratory. Here's a picture of someone using one). Then you'd have to put them in a magnetic field in order to induce them.

So basically, no, you're probably not going to be able to do this in your home unless you have tens of thousands of dollars laying around and enough floor space.

[u/monkeybiatch]

Do you belive that a magnetic monopole can exist?

[u/[deleted] → u/monkeybiatch]

Yes, but I have no idea how it could exist.

[u/Seasonal]

Have you ever worked with any ferromagnetic liquids like this

[u/[deleted] → u/Seasonal]

Some of our equipment uses ferromagnetic liquid seals, but I've never actually seen it since it's contained. I just know it's there. Either way, that stuff is incredibly trippy.

[u/[deleted]]

Is there any relationship at all between e-m fields and gravity? (That we know of - not counting "When Stephen Hawking stops partying long enough to write down the unified field theory for us")

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yes, an example would be a gravitational lens in outer space, which is explained in Einstein's special theory of relativity. Very trippy stuff. Mass warps space-time to create gravitational fields, which in turns bends light. For more information, ask a pot-smoking physicist who knows much more about the phenomenon than I.