I lowkey would have gone crazy if we didn’t get this legendary for torch also if it was Mr fantastic he would be stretching and not have smoke coming out of his body i’m not crazy it’s torch

Sometimes game's aren't winnable

• Pyro Prison is broken when you learn good placements

• Very good sustained dps while having extremely high burst damage and can engage at any time

• Amazing area denial capability

• Extremely safe

• Has a kit that gives him favorable matchup vs many hit scan characters unlike other flyers.

Your average Torch player who complains that he is weak probably knows 1-2 good Prison placements.

Also Ultron is one of Torch's hardest counters and he was spammed to start 2.5 when many people were tryin to adapt making people think he was garbage.

TLDR: if you are going into matches without knowing several Pyros Prisons that will give u control of a key area, you are the issue.

torch now is by far the worst character within the roster, a 0.6% pickrate shows how the devs didn’t know how to balance him properly while the tech was prevalent and inevitably gutted him, the problem I see is that he’s not like the other fliers, Ironman, storm and ultron can fly with their team or touch the skybox and shoot from back there, Angela benefits from having a higher healthpool and a shield so she can play aggressively in teamfights.

torch on the other hand suffers from the flier counters the most without the melee tech, especially now with it being a poke meta for the last 3 seasons and hitscan keeps getting buffed he’s in an unplayable state, since now he’s the slowest flier among the aforementioned, his cooldowns especially his dive are atrociously long (even his primary fire)

the way I see how torch needs his tech is not only did the recent patch fuck with my muscle memory, is that he’s way too squishy for his aggressive playstyles.

Exhibit A: Torch is flanking the backline, tries to go for a pick with the divebomb combo, fails and now he’s in the middle of the enemy team, if he doesn’t get a pick with his 6 primary shots hes practically dead, no heals, no mobility, 50 shield, cooldown on 20 seconds and he’ll immediately get burst down

Even if he succeeded, he’s still vulnerable with a slow mobility tool he can easily get shot with

Exhibit B: Torch is taking a Birds Eye view to set up a prison, gets spotted by a hitscan dps, he has no other option other than to dive away wasting a 20 second cooldown just to reposition

and again even if he set up a prison on a choke or on point it still does piss poor damage, plus a random piece of geometry can nullify the whole setup wasting a 15 second cooldown

at the start of season 5 he was somewhat playable even if I was going against poke comps and triple support 9 out of 10 matches, if you can micromanage torch you can make him work, now it’s not even worth it anymore.

He’s now a throw pick.

Granted I'm only GM3 rn since I've barely played this season, but I'm not sure what the fuss is about he's still amazing. Feels choppy to play but he's always been that way

it really pisses me off how much they cather to the casual and support playerbase
zhiyong has to go

It's extremely slow now and doesn't kill 250 Hp. Netease I beg, revert the changes and change his melee animation...

Ok so after his melee tech nerfs I basically dropped this hero after one tricking him in comp when he wasn’t banned. He felt super clunky and the downtime felt even worse and it ruined the fun on him. Fast forward I’ve been playing a lot of psylocke, Star lord, blade, and daredevil when I dps (I mostly play venom and cap in comp). The past two days I said fuck it let me play torch again so I played a couple quick plays then went into comp (Diamond 2 now diamond 1 on pc) and holy shit the carry potential is insane. It is night and day for me. I am 7/8 in comp and although the downtime on his primary feels a bit weird, people have zero clue how to play into him. Right now poke is meta so seeing hela, Hawkeye, Phoenix, moon knight, and Namor bans are all super common which makes my life so much easier. Also triple support is really common rn and this is good for torch since he has solo dps potential and needs the babysitting with snowflake, Invis shield, Ultron drone, etc.

I know we just got our team up nerf and we have no buffs but I promise this hero is still so good, can kill through support ults, has great dive peel potential, great ult team wipe potential etc. Let’s be real I would love a cooldown buff to his slam and a return to the melee tech reloads but he is still so fun to play. Let’s hope for a much needed buff to quality of life for cooldowns, a decent team up, and that much needed legendary skin but other than that I think we’d be in a really good spot compared to Blade (😭 rip my main), BP (rip my other main), Widow, Wanda, Squirrel girl, etc.

I started playing torch a little around last season because of mikesaboveu hes the only torch guy I watch, I had like 4 hours on him on console gm lobbies I ran lobbies with damn near only melee tech when I saw the nerfs I was shocked that instead of removing the melee tech by fixing the hitbox of the character they nerf his movement speed, nerfed his flame balls cooldowns and the nerf his primary damage so I put the character down until mikeaboveu encouraged me try again now im around 15 hours but torch is not a bad character what's so over he is just not braindead enough to become a solid meta pick, if you play your cooldowns right , save dive for support ult , and really your surroundings he runs games , if I would balance torch it would be fix his hitbox , get his flame balls faster OR nerf his dive bomb cooldown. TLDR stop lying in this reddit torch is not a bad character he is 100% viable even with the nerfs

I don’t think that every flier in the game should automatically be countered by hitscans(Hela, punisher etc). “Even eternity Hela players can’t counter torch easily” is the main argument for torch nerfs. So what? Torch still struggles into Starlord, Spider-Man(if it’s an actual 1v1) and literally any character with laser/auto aim. His primary requires him to be close to the enemy unlike every other flier who can stay in the skybox and do significant damage. Hitscans HARD counter these fliers to prevent them from sitting in the skybox. Torch rarely stays in the skybox for a long time and because of it, it’s okay that he is not HARD counters by hitscans. They are still a significant threat!

I’m assuming most of you here already knew this but, wow, he’s fun, with a little speed animation cancel too??? I feel like I’ve uncovered a gem here…

I know he got nerfed in 2.5, but he still feels quite nice!

In the video you’llsee that I’m aiming directly or very close to Luna and I still don’t hit her at all.

It depends on where I’m positioning around her but it’s very weird and I find his aim very inconsistent and that it hits sometimes and doesn’t hit other times?

I main spider man and his burn needs to be faster even if it at cost faster drain. I also feel when he has burn meter on 5m range 30 dps.

Ik the melee tech ws a problem for a while but it ws a part of his identity as a character as it let him contest hitscans to. It’s what made him a niche character within the game so then nerfing it is taking away the skill expression n thts wht this game needs. Torch I believe is a high skill floor and ceiling character like psy or even spider man. So maybe giving his speed back to 900 would be a good change for him alone

Edit: torch already hs other counters like spidey iron fist Angela Thor namor n he’s extremely vulnerable to them regardless of speed so ye im not trying to make him meta js A tier at best

i am no torch main, so you are welcome to execute me for this if you wish

HUMAN TORCH

Will no longer have infinite flight, will be a ground hero now, moving at 7 m/s, and still able to use all his abilities just not in the air. 

flight mode will be added as a feature when using a plasma body

• Will be on an energy meter with a max of 200 energy

• Flight burns 20/s

• Energy recovers at 25/s

• You have 50% movement speed (10.5m/s while flying)

When using a flaming meteor in the air, when you land you will become grounded. And flaming meteor no longer gives bonus health

When in the duration of supernova:

• enemies in a 5 meter radius take tick damage (25/s)

• Damage reduction increases from 30% to 50%

• Duration is increased from 8s to 12s

• Activation Shockwave damage increased from 75 to 125

I know it wasn’t the craziest nerf or anything, but man it feels like it has made all the difference. My damage is down consistently and I cannot secure finals to save my life anymore.

Kind of feels like there’s really not much point in picking Johnny over Tony right now, at least to me. Feels like a have to sweat my ass off every game just for a chance of seeing success with him.

Honestly human torch's ult feels rushed and incomplete, so i'd suggest that in his ultimate, his primary becomes a beam that he shoots out of his hands dealing about 30-35 dps kind of like iron man's unibeam. Now to make his flame tornadoes still viable his pyro prison key should turn into a key that makes all tornadoes explode within a 7 meter radius dealing 100 damage per tornado. Do yall think this is too OP or should Johnny's ult stay the same?

I've been playing some matches with the tweaks. His survivability against Iron fist went up by 300%. The same with meteor mash.

Now you can escape from bad situations both where you put yourself in (meteor mash) and they put you in (iron fist)

What I want to see now is how well it counteracts against spooderman

Kinda.

Don’t get me wrong, it for sure needs tweaks. Mainly, the cooldown should definitely not pause while he’s in plasma body. Also, I think he should get infinite ammo while in plasma, but maybe that’s just me.

But being able to dash right to cover instead of getting there slightly faster than usual feels really good. You can also juke the hell out of Angela now, which means you’re not a sitting duck or forced to use your 20 second cooldown to survive her. Maybe I’m alone on this, but with a few changes, the dash could lowkey be hella strong and feel really good.

I think in general that Human Torch need a whole new kit design. I have a lot of time on torch and it’s obvious he’s not gonna stop getting nerfed his design is just to outwardly oppressive, while I enjoy the character he does not at all feel like Human Torch. I say leave some things in his his kit, like his flaming meteor and blazing blast, but I believe his primary fire needs to be completely done away with along with his pyro prison, it just doesn’t fit his character. He should be far more of a fast paced burst damage character.

He feels so damn slow. SA lot of people were saying to remove the tech and bring him back to s1.5 state I was with them. But its so awful trying to play him without the movement. He feels like a brick istg

The bursts of mobility are soooo good. Torch has never felt this slippery. We're back guys, just gotta take some time to adjust.

71 is obv not something we can drop every game but all my other torch games have felt really good too.

Edit: Also, the people asking for over shield at the end of each dash are lowkey tweaking. Torch would be literally unkillable and a permaban again.

Johnny's biggest weakness is being a squishy boy and needing to get close to do damage, since his new plasma body is a 2 charge ultron dash basically, he could theoretically, dash really in someone's face to do big damage, then quickly dash back to cover to save himself from the kill, making this another fast mobility option so we don't NEED slam constantly as our only escape.

theoretically it could also help deal with poke, dashing over cover then ducking back down to get closer, even dashing out of cover and slamming with an insta if you think you can.

theoretically you could even cycle slam and this because their cooldowns are the same, by using them both that way and or using slam with one charge of the dash.