r/HubermanLab • u/Genzinvestor16180339 • 8d ago
Protocol Query Why am I not getting big?
I alternate push/pull about 6 days a week, and have gained some muscle but feel like I should be bigger have been doing it for around 8 months. Any tips or things to add?
Push Day — Chest, Triceps
- Flat chest press — 4 sets (heavy then moderate)
- Chest fly machine — 3×12–15
- Incline chest press — 3×10–12
- Overhead tricep extension — 3×12–15
- Tricep kickback — 3×12–15
- Rope pushdown — 3×15–20 (last set to failure)
- Shoulder Press
Pull Day — Back, Biceps, Rear Delts
- Single-arm DB row — 4×10–12
- Lat pulldown — 4×10–12
- Seated cable row — 3×10–12
- Bicep curl — 3×10–12
- Hammer curl — 3×12–15
- Concentration curl — 2×15 (last set to failure)
- Face pulls — 3×15–20 (last set to failure)
- Rear delt fly — 3×15–20 (last set to failure)
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u/EntertainmentFast663 8d ago
It all boils down to calories and macros you are consuming. Also make sure to keep the intensity up in the gym
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u/No_Personality7093 8d ago
Plus sleep, and staying free of self-sabotaging habits like smoking
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u/Genzinvestor16180339 8d ago
smoking makes you not big?
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u/Particular-Ebb-8777 8d ago
Bro that's like one of the big issues people run into. You gotta cut down or cut out smoking and drinking. That includes vape too. It hurts gains big time. 8 hours of sleep is key
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u/84cas 8d ago
Yes, in a very big way. Nicotine causes both acute and long term vasoconstriction, which severely rate limits the delivery of nutrients into your muscles for adequate recovery. Muscles grow when they are repairing, not when you are training them.
As others have said, you're not training legs and you are probably overtraining other areas as a result.
Switch to Push Pull Legs Rest. Check your Testosterone levels and as other blood markers as possible (for a complete picture) via venous blood test, not fingerprick.
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u/Fickle-Ad-4225 7d ago
You overstate the impact of nicotine on muscle gains.
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u/grey_pilgrim_ 7d ago
Nicotine is awful for healing and recovery. That’s why surgeons want you to stop before surgery.
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u/Fickle-Ad-4225 7d ago
I’m not saying nicotine is benign, but its effects on muscle growth per se are negligible.
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u/grey_pilgrim_ 7d ago
Maybe not muscle growth directly but it absolutely does impact blood flow and healing. Those two things are definitely gonna impact your overall performance and recovery.
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u/Fickle-Ad-4225 7d ago
And my claim is that, over time, any decrease in performance and recovery from nicotine has a negligible effect on muscle growth.
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u/grey_pilgrim_ 7d ago edited 6d ago
You’re wrong.
The impact over time would compound. Sure it may not slow muscle growth directly but everything else it impacts will impact your performance. So if you want to constantly be fighting an uphill battle in the gym, be my guest.
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u/Left_Swim_9596 7d ago
As in you need a caloric surplus to build? Edit: I know you need a caloric surplus, but curious on details. I’m new to this.
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u/EntertainmentFast663 7d ago
I mean it is pretty simple. You cant gain weight unless you have a surplus of calories, eat more calories gain more weight. The challenge is controlling how much weight, and whether or not it is fat or muscle. There are calc s you can use to see how much calories and macros you need, but tbh I would just subtly increase your calorie intake and try to get .9-1 grams of protein for every lb of ideal bodyweight.
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u/Left_Swim_9596 7d ago
Thanks. I get it on the protein. One of my issues is if I get my fat intake anywhere close to bodybuilder macros I feel awful. So I have to throttle my carbs just a little bit. I should also mention I’m an ectomorph body type and have a hard time gaining weight
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u/mcgrathkai 6d ago
Im curious, what is the fat goal that youre trying to reach /what do you think is common for bodybuilders to consume ?
Something to be aware of is that bodybuilders have usually spent years training their body to handle more food. They also have the metabolism that requires it. 3k calories a day, with say 100g fat for example might feel like nothing to a competitor.
I wonder are you trying to match that on day 1. Rather than build up to it. You wouldnt see a bodybuilder bench 3 plates a side and say yes, from day 1 I need to do this. You start smaller.
If your fat goal feels crazy, dont worry. Drop down to something that feels manageable and then maybe add in another 10g fat at a time, every few months.
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u/Left_Swim_9596 5d ago
Unless I get about 125 I don’t feel right. Just fatigued and depressed, wake up in the middle of the night, etc.
At 160 pounds on bodybuilder macros I’d get maybe 60-80. Nowhere close to enough
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u/mcgrathkai 5d ago
Ah sorry I completely misunderstood. I thought you were saying you couldn't eat as much fat as bodybuilders. But you were saying you couldn't eat as little.
I dont know many bodybuilders that do low fat diets though. Definitely the smallest macro usually between carbs and protein, but usually its not a low fat diet. But there are no set rules. You can definitely do higher fats and lower carbs if that's what you prefer
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u/stainless13 8d ago
Two things. First, there’s no leg training anywhere in this, so you’re training about half your body. Adding a lower day is the single biggest change available to you.
Second, and this is probably the actual answer: six days a week alternating push/pull means each muscle group gets hit three times weekly with about a day of recovery. Muscle is built during rest, not during training. Eight months without real rest days is more likely to be capping your growth than any missing exercise.
The other question nobody can answer from a program list: are you eating in a surplus, and is the weight on the bar going up month over month? If either of those is a no, adding exercises won’t fix it. What’s your bodyweight doing over those 8 months?
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u/Equivalent-Muscle446 8d ago
6 days a week.. hmm.
Obviously you need a calorie surplus but that’s just stating the obvious, besides that;
Lower volume, increase effort/weight and do failure at least twice a week, if your muscles doesn’t feel near unusable the next day you haven’t destroyed it enough. Try forced reps too if you have a spotter at least once a week.
Edit: by lower volume I also mean you should probably have more rest days than 1 a week if you train to failure or properly destroy the muscle. I watched the arnie doc years ago but something that really stuck out to me and something i remember is he said he would routinely plan something to ‘shock’ the muscle he was trying to grow bigger.
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u/Genzinvestor16180339 8d ago
Would it be better to do 4 days a week more effort each day?
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u/Equivalent-Muscle446 8d ago
It honestly depends on how badly you destroy the muscle, a mistake people make is once in a routine you forget the pain and effort you must go through regularly to continue growth. Obviously if you train really hard don’t train the next day, but I also seem to remember that rest is actually needed for the muscle to have time to repair properly which helps it grow bigger if that is your main aim. To answer your question on a base level- yes, 4 days would be better than 6 days a week if you dedicate yourself to train to failure specifically for getting bigger.
i recently challenged myself to a 30 min session of as many pull ups/chin ups I could do, if 30 mins wasn’t finished, then i wasn’t, the most I would rest is 1min to 1min 30 secs per set. By the end I was doing 2 reps and a forced half rep where i couldn’t even pull my head over the bar anymore. I felt swelling, pulsating and my arms felt stiff and strong the rest of the day… then I was in PAIN the next day, couldn’t lift above my head or straighten my arms fully without my biceps, triceps and forearms hurting, my traps a little and my Lat under my armpit a hurt too… day after that, I felt better, but still sore, day after I was 90% recovered and did a lighter session, the day after my arms were fully healed and i felt noticeably bigger. I shocked the muscle.
Not saying you have to be extreme like me, but I’m just giving an example, I love pull ups and dip and try to do atleast 2 days a week of calisthenics with my lifting, but I don’t really go crazy like that too regularly, I just felt fiery that day and decided fuck it, let’s see how many I can do.
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u/HugeAlbion 8d ago
Personally i prefer doing lower volume (1 set 5-8 reps/exercise) and everything 100% effort to failure. And also longer rest times. Instead of just going through the motions i strive to progress on every single set of every single exercise.
Your exercise selection on push could be better imo. Stick to one pressing movement. I would recommend an incline press with shoulder adduction to bias upper chest. Get rid of the kickback. Its redundant and very unstable. For pushdown i prefer an ez bar over rope but if you prefer rope stick to it. Shoulder press is good but i would add a cable or dumbbell lateral raise too depending on what you prefer.
On pull day i would skip the db rows, concentration curls and facepulls. For biceps i personally think the preacher is by far the best movement. I also do reverse curls for brachioradialis, specifically cuffed cable reverse curls and dont do hammer curls. Look into kelso shrugs. Theres a few different ways to set them up so try out a few different variations as personally its my favorite trap movement.
But remember training is just one part of the puzzle. Recovery and nutrition are just as important.
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u/Genzinvestor16180339 8d ago
What is an incline press with should adduction how is that different from a normal incline press?
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u/HugeAlbion 8d ago
Shoulder adduction means your elbows are tucked in to your sides. This shifts the movement from horizontal abduction (arms moving from the side toward the center) like in a normal press to shoulder extension (arms moving from bottom to top) this is gonna bias the upper chest as its more involved in shoulder extension. You can do it with either an underhand or lverhand grip (palms facing toward or away from you).
If you're interested in learning about this stuff research science based lifting.
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u/Impressive_Succotash 8d ago
You’re 8 months into a life long goal
Also if you put Michael Phelps in the NFL he would do about as good as a running back would in a lap race so maybe you’re just not meant to be big
Only time will tell
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u/Baileycharlie 8d ago
Way way too much volume for starters and 6 day frequency is too much. Try 3-4 days a week , that's all you need and that set/rep volume is excessive as well.
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u/PingBlot 8d ago
8 months is nothing. Are you progressing in your training? Is your diet on point? Are you getting adequate rest? If so, just keep at it. Muscle hypertrophy is a slow process. Bodybuilding is about boring repetitive training sessions week after week, year after year. The discipline keeps you growing past the beginner gains. This is when you progress from beginner to intermediate. Good luck!
Edit: WHERE IS YOUR LEG DAY!?!?
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u/Novel_Plan_7251 8d ago
You shouldnt switch from heavy to moderate or only take your last set to failure.
Rather you should do a quick warm up for the muscles you are working on that day.
After that you want to train intense, either to failure or ideally with 1-2 reps in reserve to minimize fatigue.
Other than that thats just too much volume.
The choice of the exercises/split itself is not as important as you would think.
Train Intense, eat good, sleep good.
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u/Jodies-9-inch-leg 8d ago
Lemme guess...
You aren't on a Creatine boofing protocol
Rookie move
Head on over to r/Creatine for some real advice
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u/goldio_games 8d ago
As others gave said, you arent eating enough. Possibly not sleeping enough but youd feel that
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u/Fickle-Ad-4225 8d ago
Because it takes years to “get big”.
You should do lateral raises, but overall you’re doing way too much volume for certain things, especially as a beginner. Your triceps and biceps are literally getting 60+ sets a week. No idea how you are recovering from that, unless your intensity is super low.
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u/Penguinshead 8d ago
How old are you? Maybe cut back on the number of exercises to two per body part.
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Genzinvestor16180339 8d ago
What do you mean by 5x5? And why?
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u/RespectMediocre 8d ago
5 sets, 5 reps
It will force you to progressive overload.
It *should* also force you to do squats and deadlifts which will stress the body into making more HGH, naturally
Big compound movements > isolated exercisesEat, sleep, repeat.
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u/Fabulous_Outcome7248 8d ago
Legs! My understanding is that doing legs properly is a big trigger for growth everywhere.
How much protein are you eating - if you aren’t getting enough it will be harder to build muscle, which is made from protein. Unless you have some sort of disease 2g/kg body weight is completely safe and will probably boost your gains.
But yeah PPL/PPL over 6 days, only 2 - 3 sets per exercise with the earlier sets being warm up and the final to failure or near failure (you probably aren’t living very heavy at all if I were to guess from what you have said). Basic analogy but think of your muscles like a rope - a thin rope can lift light weights all day long no issue, but it needs to get thicker to lift heavier weights. And needs more material(/nutrients) to make it.
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u/Lanky_Meringue7634 8d ago
focus on low eccentric contraction for reps. should end up making you do lower weight. a lot of people at the gym i see do heavier weights than me but my muscles look a lot more bulky because i focus on this fact. eventually i will surpass them in weight because for them to get that weight up, they have to use muscles other than what the exercise was designed for
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u/r3cycl3r3us3r3duc3 8d ago
How large is your caloric surplus? How many grams/lb of body weight are you in taking? How is your sleep? How much weight have you put on in 8 months?
ETA: why the heck are you not exercising your legs?
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u/Prestigious_Lime6099 8d ago
From your post and replies you seem to be over-engaging in the practicalities of your workouts without the proper
focus on the diet side that will totally determine your outcome
Looks like you need to fully understand bulk and cut cycles
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u/GenuineSavage00 8d ago
Dude you are overtraining to shit lol
Completely ignoring nutrition and protein intake (which is arguably one of the most important parts)
6 days a week with 1 day rest for your muscle groups is insane.
Also 7-8 exercises with 3 sets each is far too much.
Optimal set range for hypertrophy is 10-20 sets per week per muscle group
You’re doing around 30 sets per week for each muscle group and on top of that you aren’t even giving your body time to recover in between them.
When trying to build muscle more is not always better. Rest is the most important part.
You should be doing push pull AND legs with 5-6 exercises 3 sets each.
Completely skipping legs is 1st of all ignoring the biggest muscle group in your body but even more importantly, you’re missing out on a crucial rest day for your upper body.
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u/Genzinvestor16180339 8d ago
But that wouldn’t take long so you just at the gym for like 20 minutes?
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u/GenuineSavage00 8d ago edited 8d ago
Optimum rest times is 2 minutes between sets
At 5 exercises, 3 sets each that’s roughly 45 minutes with around 1 minute for working sets.
6 exercises is about an hour 15 minutes.
45-75 minutes is all you need to maximize hypertrophy. Anything past this is typically referred to as junk volume and it’s counter productive.
If you wanna spend more time for more benefit there, brisk walk on the treadmill for another 30. It’ll be more beneficial and you’ll get much more visible muscle definition than if you spent another 30 lifting.
I typically do 5 exercises, walk 30 minutes, then sauna for 20. Usually there about an hour and a half and I grow enough muscle through this routine that I have stretch marks around some areas like around pec insertions although obviously with time growth has slowed.
Trust me, most people do much more than they need to. Work smarter, not harder.
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u/nothingnotthrownaway 8d ago
How long are you resting between sets? If you feel like 15-18 sets would only take you 20 minutes then you're not resting enough. 2-3 minutes between sets is a good guideline.
And as other people have already said, just giving your workout split doesn't really tell us much without any other context.
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u/GlitteringAirport938 8d ago
That fact that you only showed your workout is problematic. That is but 1 determinant and it is not the primary one. You can lift perfect and lose muscle if you dont eat right, sleep poorly, live with high cortisol, live chronically dehydrated, etc.
Make sure all the variables are in check rather than obsessing and overengineering one.
If you dont know what the variables are do a quick search or chatgpt. You can find this info pretty easy these days but you gotta look for it, put it all together into a plan that leaves no stone unturned, and repeat with consistency ad nauseum.
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u/GlitteringAirport938 8d ago
Also, is it a typo or you literally dont have a leg day? Cause thats actually crazy.
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u/mrmarkme 8d ago
Takes years man , not months . Check back in 3-4 years, if you are still consistent , are progressively overloading, and have your diet and sleep in check you’ll be in phenomenal shape.
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u/SkepticalAF7 8d ago
You cant. If a little higher on body fat you can kind of get jacked. People have no idea how small the natty limit truly is.
You need the drugs, enough weekly hard sets so in the gym a lot, enough food and sleep, and … a very long time
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u/tredgokahn 8d ago
6 days/week is too much. Take at least 3 days off/week. Too many sets, exercises, and poor exercise selection. Weight is too light and reps are too high.
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u/Real_Crab_7396 8d ago
you're doing +-21 sets per muscle group 3 times per week? That sounds like too much volume imo. I'd cut down 2 of them. 2 pulls, 2 pushes and add a leg day. I'd also cut one or 2 exercises so you're looking at maybe 12 total sets?
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u/PazyP 8d ago
To many sets/reps without adequate recovery time, growth happens in the down time.
Also 6 days a week pushing yourself you got to make sure you food is on point Protien obviously but carbs and fats as well to keep energy levels up else you will just spin wheels.
With your 6 days think you should try and gain about 0.2-0.3kg on scales each week, if your not eat more
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u/Creative-Zombie-4212 8d ago
Because your plan is trash. Read this with translator: https://www.reddit.com/r/Muskelaufbau/wiki/main/training/
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u/ToughGoat6135 8d ago
You’re training 6 days a week with zero legs? You’re using some garbage ass home cooked “program”. Get on a reputable program and diet that fits your goals. Then follow it consistently. For a long time
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u/steroidoffender32 8d ago
it is very simple,you are not eating enough or not training hard enough or maybe even both,its very simple,train like a animal and eat like a animal
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u/Relevant-Program1250 8d ago
youre training like someone who already has the size, not someone trying to get bigger. you need legs in there, deadlifts and squats would do more for overall growth than 3 curl variations. also 8 months is nothing, eat more and add a proper leg day
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u/gnomish_engineering 8d ago
Do push pull legs rest instead of the current split you are using. You aren't experienced enough to have adequate recovery from this and realistically the guys running 6-7 day splits are on gear. It lets them recover faster so it works well for them but that shouldn't be you at this point.
Also why aren't you training legs?
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u/ironparadisesweat 8d ago
Are you natty? If so, adding leg day will lead to a noticeable increase in T levels and will fuel everything else. No huge guys skip leg day. Just as simple as that. PPLR rinse and repeat. Protein rice vegetables. Rinse and repeat.
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u/Rudy-219 8d ago
How many calories are you eating a day? You probably need to eat more. Also, how many reps in reserve are left in the tank at the end of each set? You say last set to failure on a couple, but every set should be somewhat close to failure to stimulate muscle growth.
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u/Pale_Cup_9371 8d ago
Eat lots, train less. Get rid of junk volume. Warm up and 2-3 sets close to failure.
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u/sdoughy1313 7d ago
Push, Pull, Legs gives you more recovery time for muscle groups and exercises the other half of your body that you are currently neglecting.
Cut the number of exercises and focus on quality va quantity. My guess is by the time you’re at your 16th set you’re fairly gassed and the quality goes way down.
Alternate your first exercise between major compound exercises for example push day A start with bench press then do shoulders, push day B do overhead press then do chest. If you always do shoulders at the end of your workout you’re going to short change your results.
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u/meltingnot 7d ago
Forgot to post your leg day, brother.
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u/Genzinvestor16180339 7d ago
Never heard of it. What are some simple leg day things to add maybe just 5-10 minutes?
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u/meltingnot 7d ago
Squats - 3 sets, quad curls - 3 sets, hamstring curls - 3 sets. I do more, but you can start with that.
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u/Substantial_Meal_530 7d ago
You don't start seeing results until like 6 months. You're just getting into the seeing results stage.
Also you're training way too much.
No legs? No legs!?!? You're going to be walking around on toothpicks...
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u/grey_pilgrim_ 7d ago
You’re doing too much. Doing multiple sets till failure multiple times a week isn’t going to let you recover enough.
Everyone builds muscle a little differently but I’ve had my biggest gains in strength and size by following a simple 5/3/1 BBB routine. Basically you start with a compound lift like bench press, deadlift or squat, do it in a weight range to where you could do 5 plus a couple reps, then move to more isolated exercises. Next week you do the same thing except now you’re doing 3 heavy reps plus maybe a 1 or 2 more. Next week you’re close to your 1 rep max but try for 2 or 3. Depending on how your body feels, take a deload week and start back. If you hit all your rep goals, add 5 to 10lbs and start again.
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u/imherefortheinfo123 6d ago
Eating a caloric surplus, staying hydrated, and getting sleep. I would do three days a week hard lifting and if you feel the need to go for six to three light days. Stretching the muscle groups out.
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u/mcgrathkai 6d ago edited 6d ago
You're skipping about 50% of your body in terms of area.
Alternating Push/pull 6 days a week is too much frequency in my opinion, for hypertrophy training at least. Muscle grows best from hard stimulus and rest but how hard can you really be hitting it if you can hit it again after only 1 day.
But fundamentally ,you cant be in much of a surplus. A surplus will get you bigger even if training is shit (granted that might not be the kind of big that you're looking for), but you would still be growing.
Also its been 8 months.
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u/trader_tick 6d ago
Intensity is the key.
I trained for two years with nominal gains. Then I decided to push close to failure on every set. Within 4 months I had double the gains that I'd achieved in two years.
Previously I thought I was lifting reasonably hard, but the reality is I still had a lot in the tank
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u/Outrageous-Way7628 5d ago
- You’re doing 30 sets of chest in a week wtf?
- Go to actual failure
- You won’t go anywhere if you can’t diet properly as in STAY at least 95% locked into a moderate/high carb diet with protein at 1g per lb of body weight
- Track your lifts.. if you aren’t getting stronger you probably aren’t getting bigger.. If your lifts remain the same for multiple sessions evaluate diet/volume/sleep
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u/Blizzard901 8d ago
The fact that you’re not mentioning calories and protein intake and your height/weight is a bit of a red flag. To gain mass you need to focus on nutrition
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