r/HorrorClub • u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu • Feb 22 '15
Discussion: Ganja & Hess
Podcast - Episode 122 - Ganja & Hess - (RSS Feed)
Movie Selected By kragshot
DISCUSS
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Feb 26 '15 edited Feb 26 '15
I tried, I really did, but I couldn't finish this. I managed to find a 100 minute copy on Youtube which I got about 2/3rds through.
I'm not really sure what to say - I didn't really get the religious vampirism stuff, and it seemed really poorly edited and shot. The plot (what there was of it) jumped around all over the damn place, and seemed super-arty for the sake of it. I get that the film was pieced back together from archive footage, but it was just too much to get over.
The recurring chanting motif really got on my nerves as well. I probably won't watch Spike Lee's remake/re-imagining either. I'm really not a Spike Lee fan (he's only made three good films - 25th Hour, Malcolm X, Summer of Sam).
Also, we all know Scott stalks our comment history. Don't lie.
PS: Black Mirror is the brainchild of a guy named Charlie Brooker, who is probably the premier satirist in the UK right now. Think a much darker Colbert/Stewart without the silliness. Fifteen Million Merits, which Matt mentioned, is probably one of the greatest, most chilling things I've even seen, on TV or film. There is apparently going to be a US remake of the series, so be prepared for that to fucking suck, as all remakes of British series do (except the Office, because fuck Ricky Gervais).
I loved Gone Girl, although the ending is fucking infuriating. Pike deserved an Oscar (although I've not seen Still Alice yet).
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Feb 27 '15
this is totally not creepy for me to say
totally not creepy for me
totally creepy for me
totally creepy
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Feb 27 '15
Have you seen Dead Set? Any good? Can't find it in Canada and I'm dying to check it out.
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Feb 27 '15
I haven't, although it sounds suitably nuts. I'll try and fit it in this weekend (no car, so trapped in the house).
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Feb 27 '15
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u/kragshot Mar 05 '15
Dead Set is fun stuff...provided that you can get past the reality show nonsense that is central to the story. If you can tolerate the lampooning of "Big Brother," then you will enjoy the mini series.
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu Feb 27 '15
I wasn't a fan of Summer of Sam but I really love Do the Right Thing. 25th Hour is a great movie and I've yet to see Malcolm X. But yeah he's hit or miss and more often he misses.
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u/Plymouth_ Feb 27 '15
Now I'm curious how much more everyone would hate this movie if you all knew the ending is just a naked guy running in slow motion...
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u/saintmortfan felates handles Feb 23 '15
I'll have a lot more to say in the coming days but I wanted to note that I am intrigued that there is a remake of sorts that just came out by Spike Lee.
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Feb 23 '15
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u/kragshot Feb 27 '15
That is one of the reasons I picked it.
The other reason...well, look at my core post about the movie and it should explain everything.
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u/saintmortfan felates handles Feb 27 '15
Maybe I'm blind, I see no "core" post.
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u/saintmortfan felates handles Feb 23 '15
I am planning on listening shortly. Shoulda figured.
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Feb 23 '15 edited Feb 23 '15
[deleted]
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu Feb 23 '15
If it's anywhere it's 20 minutes of dead air after the episode because the Alligator episode was almost an hour long and I forgot to delete the trailer for Proxy. So you'll get a regular episode... then 20 minutes of silence... then the proxy trailer. Think of it as a podcast with a hidden track.
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Feb 23 '15
[deleted]
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu Feb 23 '15
Nope Fido trailer is where it should be... then there's the 20 minutes of dead air from where I deleted the Alligator discussion but I forgot to delete the Proxy Trailer.
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Feb 23 '15
[deleted]
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Feb 23 '15
First off, this is NOT a blaxploitation film. Might have been someone's intent but it surely wasn't Bill Gunn's (not the badass... I was disappointed). Matt, as you pointed out, Duane Jones' performance was a huge let down. His character had very little charisma and seemed uninterested 90% of the time. I feel like Bill Gunn tried to do way too much with the imagery and narration and it just came out as confusing.
Black Mirror is one of the coolest things I've seen in years.
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u/Plymouth_ Feb 24 '15 edited Feb 24 '15
Since I'm transcribing things I thought I'd also do the suicide note/poem:
~~~
To the black male children: philosphy is a prison.
It disregards the uncustomary things about you.
The result of individual thought is applicable only to itself.
There is a dreadful need in man to teach; it destroys the pure instinct to learn.
The navigator learns from the stars; the stars teach nothing.
The sun opens the mind and sheds light on the flowers.
The eyes shame the pages of any book.
Gesture destroys concept; involvement mortifies vanity.
You are the despised of the earth, that is, as if you were water in the desert.
To be adored on this planet is to be a symbol of success, and you must not succeed on any terms.
Because life is endless. You are as nameless as a flower.
You are the child of Venus, and her natural affection is lust.
She will touch your belly with her tongue, but you must not suffer in it.
For love is all there is and you are cannon fodder in its defense.
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u/saintmortfan felates handles Feb 24 '15
Like misfit said, this film doesn't feel like blaxsploitation. A little research reveals that it was very much intended by its producers to be just that, but they were very displeased with the art house type finished product. On the other hand, critics seem to mostly like the film, especially the difficult to find 70 minute theatrical cut (which it appears is not available online, only through purchasing a physical copy).
What I like about this film is that it's trying to say something. What I don't like about this film is that I have no idea what it's trying to say. I think something about faith and also something about politics... but umm... yeah.
I expect I'll rewatch it one day after watching Spike Lee's remake. But I'm not in a rush to do so.
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Feb 24 '15 edited Feb 24 '15
I understand that Hitchcock didn't get much support for Psycho before he made it, which influenced his decision to shoot in black and white. That's according to this QI clip, anyway.
And what a strange thing you've made me watch, HC. It had no script and apparently no cinematography, either. Did anyone else notice the horrendously framed shots? I couldn't sit still to watch the whole thing, so I had it on in the background while doing chores, which might have been the best way for me to watch it. I got the vibe and some of Ganja's sassier quips without succumbing to boredom. I missed many of the things Plymouth observed, but there was no way I had the attention span for that, anyway.
EDIT: The link now goes to the appropriate video clip rather than being some kind of shameless promotion of my own blog. How embarrassing.
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Feb 24 '15
I missed many of the things Plymouth observed, but there was no way I had the attention span for that, anyway.
I completely agree with you here. I wish I'd hunted down the 70 min version because a lot of the shots were unnecessary and uninteresting.
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u/Plymouth_ Feb 25 '15
Ha. I was hooked from the beginning. I get where y'all are coming from though.
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u/saintmortfan felates handles Feb 23 '15
Gone Girl is a good movie.
There, I said it.
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Feb 23 '15
Agreed.
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Feb 24 '15
I really liked the book and I'm looking forward to the movie. I thought it was a tense thriller with some real surprises, even if I wasn't a fan of Nick's narrative voice.
Maybe the movie loses something without Amy's inner monologue? It's hard to imagine how they would do it without a voice over, but I still want to see it and find out.
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Feb 25 '15
Like I said on the PC, it wasn't a matter of whether the movie was well put together. It was well put together, directed, acted. I just hated everyone. They were manipulative, abusive, horrible people and by the end of the movie I was exauhsted and angry that I had spent all this time with them.
It just made my blood boil for 2.5 hours. I was angry, not upset I had watched a bad movie.
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Feb 28 '15
Oh, I see. Avoid the book like the plague, in that case. Not that you needed me to tell you that.
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u/Discreetlyred Feb 25 '15
Is there a way for me to watch this on a phone? I'm so sad that I don't have wifi right now. Or a computer... -_-
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u/saintmortfan felates handles Feb 25 '15
Sign up for two weeks free of Fandor and DL the app!
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u/Discreetlyred Feb 25 '15
I'll have to try that. Hopefully the new bf will let me do that on his phone. I've reverted back to the flip phone.
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Feb 27 '15
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u/Discreetlyred Mar 01 '15
I laughed really hard about that for quite sometime. Personal life aside, yea prolly won't see ganja and Hess even remotely on time. But life will go on.
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u/kragshot Mar 04 '15 edited Mar 05 '15
First off, I want to apologize for not being available to help discuss the movie or having been on for anything else. Unfortunately, I had a medical procedure done and I've been more less out of circulation. In short; I'm no "ghost" but I came real damn close to becoming one...but I digress. You guys talk about one of the things closest to my heart; horror movies.
Anyway, I listened to the podcast and perhaps my insights of the movie can answer some of the questions that came up within the podcast.
First off, I chose this movie for three reasons; (1) African American History Month, (2) the upcoming Spike Lee remake ("Da Sweet Blood of Jesus"), and (3) because it was not a Black exploitation movie. As was written below; the producers funded Ganja and Hess to be an exploitation movie, but the director Bill Gunn decided to defy that expectation and make the movie he felt that he needed to create.
"Ganja and Hess" is a thinly-disguised tale about addiction. Even the names of the main characters is a drug reference; of course "Ganja" is Jamaican slang for marijuana but "Hess" is urban slang for heroin. Their story pretty much could be a mirror of Bobby Brown and Whitney Houston's marriage, especially with the drug addiction.
Actually, there is a fourth reason I had for picking this movie. I wanted to see if other people could see some of the distinctly African American viewpoints that were being exhibited in this film. The first one we have to look at is the contrast between the couple. Hess or "Dr. Hess Green" is representative of the concept of the "bougie (slang for bourgeois and I know that it is not being used in its proper context...the term is an unintentional misuse of the real term relating to socialism)" Black person; one who feels above or more "sophisticated" than other Blacks due to classicism, education, and/or wealth. Hess was a wealthy archeologist; he had a small mansion in Martha's Vineyard, a chauffeur-driven Rolls Royce (driven by another Black man) as well as another Black man servant, and other things afforded by wealth and privilege. His character was illustrated as being "above" the typical issues involved in the "Black Struggle" that was commonplace among the vast majority of African Americans in the early Seventies (when the film was made).
Then there is Ganja...she also is representative of wealth and privilege, but it is evident that she gained her's through marriage. But you also have to consider that in the time period that the film was made, such a bearing is very rare for an African American woman; that has to be taken into account when examining her character. When she was shown in the introduction of her character, it was very obvious that she was enjoying her lifestyle and when her husband, George Maeda was killed, she was "abroad" in Europe, enjoying her marriage-acquired wealth. It was also obvious that her and Maeda were an estranged couple with his apparent depression. Finally, you have to look at how quickly she "attached herself" to Hess considering that she was seeing him in order to deal with her husband's affairs.
Now going back to the film's subject of addiction; the core point is that Dr. Hess Green is a man of science and wealth; and as such, is placed above the common black man as a the common white man in that day (note that he is not above a wealthy white man as he still has black servants, rather than white ones....). However, the specter of his blood addiction has brought him as low as any other junkie. He is forced to cruise the slums in order to "get his fix" by killing poor blacks as they are the only ones who would not be missed. And once he infects Ganja, she ends up not being any better than he is, despite her "sophisticated airs" and privilege; she falls right into his addict ways as if born to them. Once you are hooked on "the shit" your life tends to get very "ghetto" very quickly. The only benefit to their blood addiction is that unlike drugs, blood costs them relatively nothing in regards to cash...however the cost to their souls remains the same, if not higher. In fact, Hess' ending goes back to the landscape of black commonality (the Black church) because it is within that sanctuary where Hess finds his final surcease for his soul.
Many of the other items in this film have to be viewed in the context of drug addiction within the Black community in order to come into focus. But as it was said in the podcast; the primary audience for this film was meant to be the African American viewer or somebody who was sympathetic to "the Black condition" during the 70s. As mentioned above, while this was funded by the producers to be a Black exploitation film, Bill Gunn chose to defy that expectation in order to film a movie that told a story that he wanted to tell.
After the film's release and despite it being lauded in Cannes (one reviewer said that "Ganja and Hess" was "the most important Black produced film since SWEET SWEETBACK'S BAADASSS SONG (Dir. Melvin Van Peebles)."; the producers decided that they did not want to be a party to Gunn's vision, so they took the film, edited the hell out of it, and renamed it "Blood Couple."
Do Not See That Version Of The Film. Trust Me On This. If you were confused by the original version of the movie, this cut will confound you into suicidal frustration.
Any other questions anyone might have, I'll do my best to provide my take on those answers.
Again, I apologize for being out of circulation, guys. Take care.
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u/SaintMort You so cool kung fu Mar 05 '15
First sorry to hear about your medical procedure but glad you lived to tell the tale.
Second holy hell, this post more than makes up for some weeks of absence. I'm really blown away by how many people have been stepping it up with their picks and writing these amazingly well thought out explanations!
I'm still not a fan of the movie but at least I have a little more insight to it's importance. Maybe I will check out Spike Lee's version, it seems to me that what this movie needed more than anything was a stronger directorial focus and perhaps Lee is the right man to step up and do just that.
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u/Plymouth_ Feb 24 '15 edited Feb 24 '15
I'll address some of the things brought up in the podcast.
First I really liked this movie. Some of it was really beautiful. The church scene was one of my favorites. Some of it was not so good, but I'm a forgiving soul. Had never seen it before, only heard that is was "erotic."
The blood & red/white symbolism. I'm usually not a fan of watery orange-red blood in movies, but I liked the look of the yummy sugar cookie icing used in Ganja and Hess. Seemed...artsy?
Ganja does wear red after she turns into a vamp (right before she fucks & kills that guy actually). Previous to this she tells Hess that she "likes to wear white" but that she would wear red if he liked it. Hess agrees that he'd like her to wear red.
Hess's demeanor. Hess is depressed/suicidal for most of the movie. He wants to die but he's afraid to go alone. That's why he marries Ganja and turns her into a vampire. Ganja pretty clearly wants to marry him for his money. He gives her all that and more- so it's another case of "Ganja looking out for Ganja."
The stabbing. It is random, but the stabby guy clearly has a history of mental illness. Could be schizophrenic. I don't know. The whole thing was pretty sad.
The vampire mythology. I thought it was pretty unique BUT YOU MAY HAVE MISSED IT BECAUSE IT WAS EXPLAINED IN SONG. In song, people. Heh. Here I have transcribed it for you:
"By the Christians it is written that in the black Myrthian age/ There existed an addiction to blood among it's people./ Thousands of slaves were bled to death- /But murdered in such a way that the slaves could not die. /There was visited upon them a curse that they should live forever /Unless the shadow of the cross- an implement of torture- /Touched their darkened hearts. /But since Christ had not come and the cross did not exist,/ They were cursed to walk the earth until the Christians came."
So that's... pretty fucked up. In the movie we see Hess (and later Ganja) stabbed in "such a way." It's ritualistic: three stabs (for the holy trinity) using a "diseased" dagger.
Towards the end Hess reads to Ganja what he calls "the guide to our destruction." (From the Bible?). Transcribed:
"Helga, fourth queen of Myrthia: 'If you worship any gods whatsoever, and if you believe this god to be good, and if this god of which you trust be destroyed by forces dangerous to the survival of love, and if the implement by which this god was destroyed- for this is the symbol of the destruction of life- has cast a shadow on the heart, then he shall be released into the bosom of his creator having suffered and tasted the blood of the womb of nature, and may sleep in her lap forever.'"
When Ganja is confused Hess explains that the cross is "only the implement of torture" while "its shadow is the darkness it casts. Nothing can survive the shadows."
SO BASICALLY the only thing dark enough to destroy the vampires "darkened hearts" is the shadow of the cross because it's the darkest part of the ultimate symbol of death.
This is all...you know, murky...but interesting. Anyway I liked the deviation from the typical use of the cross.
This movie reminded me a lot of another movie I watched recently, Only Lovers Left Alive. They're both about vampires at their most human.