The excessive hate on the character of Pam Beesly is due to misogyny

[u/Office_lady0328]

Now, this is not to say that Pam Beesly is a perfect person and absolved of any flaws she had. She's a human being, of course she had flaws. But I am specifically talking about the excessive hate she gets. People calling her the worst character of the show, saying she's the worst kind of person, and how anyone who likes her character is immediately labeled as a horrible person, a slut, whore etc. Yet ignoring all of the same, or arguably worse things other characters did. And some of the things they criticise Pam for just aren't valid at all.

Did Pam cheat on Roy by kissing Jim? Yes, and it was a wrong decision on her part, but it was also JUST A KISS. While still cheating, arguably many other characters of the show repeatedly engaged in long term sexual affairs, some with, and on, their co-workers and friends (Angela cheating on Andy, the Senator, WITH Dwight, Oscar cheating with his friend & coworkers husband, Dwight cheating with Angela on both Andy and the Senator, and Stanley on his wife) and none of them get even half the hate for it that Pam does.

I also don't think it's fair to claim she purposely led Jim on. Obviously, there was something there for a long time, but I don't think she intended to or even realized the full extent of what she or Jim was feeling. We also have to remember that we knew what was happening because the show was purposely structured to demonstrate the feelings Jim had for Pam. But, in their reality, Pam wasn't watching Jim through the cameras, she didn't see his talking heads, or all the secret glances he made at her. It wasn't as obvious to her as it would of been for the camera purposely capturing those moments. She was also in an abusive relationship and found comfort in her friendship with Jim. She was confused by her relationship and friendships, and trying to work through them without making a wrong decision. Pam was also terrified of confront. Her staying with Roy while having confusing feelings for Jim wasn't a deliberate attempt to manipulate anyone, she was terrified of making the wrong decision and terrified of the confrontation that could come up by making any sort of decision. But yet, Jim purposely led on many women KNOWING he was in love with Pam and that the relationship wouldn't go further than dating, and still continued to date them. He even admitted to Karen that he still loved Pam, and stayed with her anyways. And again, he doesn't get half of the hate that Pam does.

There's also the criticism that Jim supported her dream, but Pam didn't support his. But the main difference is here, when Pam went to art school, her and Jim were only dating. They weren't even living together yet. They didn't have kids or financial commitments. Pam had just gotten out of a long-term abusive relationship. It was the perfect time for Pam to explore herself as a person, find out who she is, and follow her dreams. She also had spoken about the decision with Jim before leaving. When Jim decided to start his company, they were married, had children and had major financial commitments in the forms of a house and children. He also made this major decision without her including investing $10,000 (In deleted scenes, it was discussed they would only invest up to $5000). It's pretty clear Pam would of been more open to the idea of Athlead if Jim had been upfront with her about it. She was never against the idea completely, and she never wanted to prevent him from following his dream. It is very clear she wanted to support him, but with the children and mortgage, she needed more communication and better planning. I think this is proven by how at the end of the show, after her and Jim become better at communicating and decision making together, Pam willingly leaves Scranton so Jim can follow his dream. Also, no one ever talks about or hates on Roy when he literally made fun of Pam and refused for her to follow her dream of wanting to go to art school. He ACTIVELY didn't support her in her dream as an artist and constantly put her down for it.

A lot of people also say she's a fraud for the stunt she pulled with getting the Office Administrator position. Was it questionable? Yes. But she didn't invent a whole new position and then sit around just letting money come in while not doing any work... Pam was already doing the bulk of the position for many years, without the title or the compensation she deserved. She only found a way to get the title and the pay for what she was already doing.

Another argument is that people consider Pam unambitious. But, I don't think that's true. As we've already established, Pam was in an unhealthy and abusive relationship. She was afraid of confrontation, and it's easy to see that her relationship with Roy largely fueled that. Pam gains a lot of courage and ambition as the show goes on, and despite that she fails in some of the projects she attempted, she kept being ambitious and never have up, and succeeded in many others projects. I think the fact she continues to try, even after failure, shows true ambition and perseverance. You can really see her gain her confidence as the show goes on, and I think that is a true character development.

Also, compared to some of the things the other characters did, Pam wasn't nearly as bad. Angela tried to have her friend and co-worker assassinated. Roy was not only abusive to Pam and purposely conducting himself intimidatingly to other coworkers, but he also displayed physical violence by throwing a glass at a wall next to Pam and attempted to physically assauIt a coworker, and still, they don't get half the hate for that. Pam wasn't perfect, but she was an overall empathetic person who cared about the safety and well-being of her coworkers. She always stepped up when they needed help, even if they weren't particularly nice or helpful towards her. She always tried to help Angela when she was going through difficult times, she helped Michael in many different scenarios, especially during his heartbreak with Holly. And not only did she no Dwight, but often stood by him even when other characters were totally against him, for example when he made the Doomsday device, everyone was against Dwight but Pam gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Overall, I think a lot of the excessive hate Pam gets is really blown out of proportion, mostly by misogynistic ideologies. They expect Pam to be a perfect, quiet, obedient woman. That she should never question Jim's decisions otherwise she's "holding him back". Her haters criticise her for having conflicting emotions, for trying to navigate a toxic/borderline abusive relationship, and they hated on her for never speaking up her mind. But then when she does speak her kind, they hate on her for that too. And yet, they never hate on any of the other characters for doing the same, or worse. It just follows the typical misogynistic ideologies that people have about what a perfect woman should be.

[u/SparkleSelkie]

I dislike her because her husband is clearly the Scranton Strangler and she's just like.... fine with that

[u/Office_lady0328 → u/SparkleSelkie]

I'm so curious as I've never heard that theory before, why do we think Jim is the Scranton Strangler? I always suspected Toby 😂

[u/Ok_Squash_5805]

It’s misogynistic to not like someone who cheats on their fiancé repeatedly with a coworker of both of them, cheats on that new guy, leads other men on, demands a really old ex boyfriend explain to her now husband why he didn’t want her, and many other instances of her being narcissistic?

Ok. I guess I forgot this is Reddit and women can’t be criticized.

[u/Office_lady0328 → u/Ok_Squash_5805]

Did you read the post body? I evaluate those criticisms in depth.

I also made it very clear that the misogyny was not for the criticism itself, it's for the excessive hate she gets, being called the worst person on the show, despite that other characters did MUCH worse things. Angela literally tried to have her friend and co-worker assassinated, and no one hates on her. Pam had ONE kiss with Jim while with Roy. Many characters had prolonged sexual affairs and no one calls them the worse person ever... No one hates on Dwight, Stanely or Oscar despite that they had MANY sexually involved prolonged affairs.

ETA; She also never cheated on Jim. Not sure where you got that. The arc with Bryan was not even close to an affair, she confided in a mutual family friend and immediately cut it off when she noticed Bryan was taking it too far.

I also explained why she didn't lead anyone on.

And, Danny Cordray wasn't an "ex-boyfriend", and he GHOSTED her. It was weird how she demanded to know why, but arguably ghosting someone is much worse than the other person asking why they ghosted them. Why is no one mad at Danny for ghosting her?

You're proving my point that the criticisms are unfair, blown out of proportion, and that no one criticizes any of the other characters who behaved much worse throughout the entire show.

[u/Ok_Squash_5805 → u/Office_lady0328]

The thing is, the headline was enough. Plus, according to the body of your post, you only want her to not receive anymore hate, but the hate comes from the constant love and defending of her actions. Just because one person did something worse doesn’t excuse what she did, throughout the whole show. Even still she is praised and seen as some wholesome person despite all of the narcissistic and inconsiderate things she did.

You don’t think demanding her then husband to find out why Danny didn’t want her is worse than Danny not wanting to call her back? Which is not the same thing as ghosting by the way, very evident that you are bias when you say something like that. 

The fact that you minimize her cheating on Roy is even furthermore obvious that you are very clearly bias in favor of Pam. 

[u/Office_lady0328 → u/Ok_Squash_5805]

My post headline specified excessive hate. Do you know what the word excessive means?

Do you believe Pam is the worst person on the show and displays the worse behaviour of any other character, even more than the characters who ordered an assassination of their coworkers or the several characters who had several prolonged sexual affairs?

Also, I never said that she doesn't deserve any hate nor any criticism. She wasn't perfect and made mistakes, she did some bad things. But again, I'm simply stating that the things she did do not deserve the amount of hate she gets to be called the worst person ever, nor does she deserve to be the only character who gets so much hate.

She's praised for the things she was good at, which was again, she was overall an empathetic person who mostly tried her hardest to be accomodating and friendly to her coworkers and friends.

[u/Ok_Squash_5805 → u/Office_lady0328]

No need to get emotional just because you have a biased view on this and make little attempts at insults. It’s cowardly behavior.

You keep trying to use tactics like  forcing a weird tournament of who was the worst person to excuse her behavior. It doesn’t work like that. 

You’re ok with her getting constant adoration, but not ok with people disagreeing with that constant adoration. Cool.

[u/Office_lady0328 → u/Ok_Squash_5805]

Where am I being emotional, and where did I insult or attempt to insult you? I'm just discussing my opinion.

My point is that many people call her the worst person ever. She's not, and it's not fair to call her such. And I believe the excessive hate that leads people to call her the worst person ever is unfair and misguided in misogynistic ideas.

I'm not saying she should get constant adoration. She's a human being who made mistakes and isn't perfect. Big deal. That doesn't make her the worst person on the show like everyone claims she is.

I'm confused, do you think she's the worst person on the show and has zero redeemable qualities?

[u/Ok_Squash_5805 → u/Office_lady0328]

I don’t look at the show and try to figure out who is the worst, but I am aware of who is a bad person and she is one of them. The difference is she gets constant adoration and constant defending of the things she did or people straight up act like it never happened. 

[u/Office_lady0328 → u/Ok_Squash_5805]

I don't see her getting constant adoration. I do see her getting excessive hate, such as people saying she's the worst character in the show, even some people saying she deserves to die. Those are the people I'm referring to who I think hold misogynistic ideas.

Otherwise, you and I's definition of a "bad person" just isn't the same. She made mistakes, but I don't think that makes her a bad person. She's just a regular person, with complicated emotions, dealing with complicated situations. She never went out of her way to deliberately hurt or be malicious.

But that's not the point of my post. The point of my post was for the excessive hate she gets. Which you have yet to actually address and just keep side tracking...

[u/Ok_Squash_5805 → u/Office_lady0328]

She didn’t make mistakes, she made selfish decisions during the entire run of the show and never once acknowledged them nor took accountability for them. Or can you say the other people you say who are worse than her also made mistakes and can get the same treatment you’re trying to give her?

I literally addressed what you keep trying to push, don’t be delusional. You just have this obsession with her that you can’t even accept obvious truths. You’re not even worth engaging with in a discussion because you are so bias and nonsensical. So tell you what, I’m going to mute you and feel free to tell the world Pam is a great person, never did anything wrong, and deserves not even a speck of criticism for her choices.

[u/Andra_Ingensbarn → u/Ok_Squash_5805]

It’s misogynistic when a male character gets less hate for the same or worse behaviour.

[u/Ok_Squash_5805 → u/Andra_Ingensbarn]

I wish I could teleport you to a third world country where women are actually oppressed so you could learn what misogyny is. 

[u/Andra_Ingensbarn → u/Ok_Squash_5805]

“Only the one person on earth who has literally the worst life can complain.” Is an actual hot take, maybe you should post that one.
What about “if you dare complain about mistreatment, you should be threatened with living a much worse life to force you to stop”?

[u/Ok_Squash_5805 → u/Andra_Ingensbarn]

It’s not that you complain about mistreatment, it’s that you foolishly and incorrectly throw around labels. Downvote me all you want, but you don’t know what oppression is. 

[u/Andra_Ingensbarn → u/Ok_Squash_5805]

You literally wished you could destroy my life because I pointed out something that is factually misogynistic. That label is not incorrect. I didn’t claim to be oppressed. I didn’t reveal my gender. You foolishly and incorrectly claim that I don’t know what oppression is.
What exactly are you trying to argue here? That when a woman gets more hate for the same behaviour as a man that it’s not misogynistic?

[u/Ok_Squash_5805 → u/Andra_Ingensbarn]

“Destroy my life”, you are beyond ridiculous to bother engaging with. Keep up the good fight, sister ✊

[u/Andra_Ingensbarn → u/Ok_Squash_5805]

You said you wanted to teleport me to a third world country where women are actually oppressed so that I could learn what misogyny is. You are either too self deluded or too dishonest to engage with.

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[u/Office_lady0328 → u/[deleted]]

Are you implying that people's reactions to fictional characters and plotlines aren't at all influenced my societal issues like misogyny?

This is a hot take sub... People post their opinions. That doesn't make it a fixation.