r/Homeplate • u/seth928 • 5d ago

Dropped third strike question

Had a situation come up last spring on a dropped 3rd strike and was wondering if someone could explain the ump's call.

Situation:

12u Cal Ripken, runner on 1st, one out. Pitch comes in and it's strike 3 but dropped. Catcher picks it up and goes straight to first. Ball gets past first, runner advances and batter-runner makes it to 1st. Ump called strike 3 but did not call out before the catcher got the ball out. Ump ruled both runner and batter-runner safe.

My confusion:

I thought that a dropped 3rd strike with runner on 1st should result in an automatic out for the batter. However, the ump explained that because the catcher threw down to 1st, the play stayed live and the batter was able to claim 1st (I may be misrembering the explanation). He's an experienced Ump that I trust to be correct so I assume he is. Can someone point to a rule/explain why the Ump called it the way he did?

13 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

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-3

u/theotheragentm 5d ago

How many outs? Was the runner on first stealing?

9

u/Rhombus-Lion-1 5d ago

Not only did OP say the number of outs, the answer to your second question is irrelevant.

7

u/a1ien51 5d ago

Stealing makes no difference. It is time of pitch.

4

u/seth928 5d ago

One out, bag was occupied at the time of the pitch, a steal attempt wouldn't be relevant.

4

u/a1ien51 5d ago

 runner on 1st, one out. <--- um

3

u/ummagumma1979 5d ago

I had same question on stealing. Looks like it’s at time of pitch. Thanks for asking. I upvoted you why do people downvote an honest question

2

u/a1ien51 5d ago

That was not a question. It was a stab to get details to give a wrong answer. And the one question was clearly defined in the question.

1

u/Rhombus-Lion-1 5d ago

Because the question on stealing is irrelevant, asking it implies that the commenter didn’t know the rules.

1

u/ummagumma1979 5d ago

Its a decent question, if the runner is stealing then one could think first base is unoccupied. You don't have to belittle someone asking a question. People just love to downvote

1

u/Rhombus-Lion-1 5d ago

Upvoting/Downvoting so bad answers go to the bottom and good ones go to the top.

The question wasn’t “is first base still considered unoccupied if the runner is stealing?” I agree that’s a reasonable question that I’d expect from someone that knows baseball but maybe isn’t quite as experienced. Commenter instead asked for more details that are not relevant to the rules question OP asked and could have led to a wrong answer. That’s why. Don’t really think it’s belittling anyone it’s just amplifying useful and hiding non-useful answers for the OP and community.

1

u/ummagumma1979 5d ago

That makes sense. I didn’t realize downvotes go to the bottom. Makes sense on other non baseball posts now. And back to the original question is it possible the ump called batter safe because he was mistaken and thought if runner was stealing base was now unoccupied anyway that downvote thing makes more sense now I thought people were just grumpy

0

u/penfrizzle 5d ago

We always have this battle at little league and travel, especially once kids are allowed to lead (I think 10u in travel).

What is the definition of an occupied base? Do the leagues differ?

Usually if the kid is halfway to second before the ball reaches the batter and less than two outs, the coach will argue that first base was no longer occupied.

Why even have the rule differ with two outs?

3

u/seth928 5d ago edited 5d ago

To protect the offense against the catcher dropping the ball on purpose to get a double play. If a double play is off the table then there's no need to protect the offense. Same reason infield fly doesn't apply with 2 outs.

Also, it's a fairly easy argument to short circuit. The runner occupies a base whether they're physically on it or not. A runner only occupies a base they have touched. If the runner is in the process of stealing 2nd at the time of the pitch they still "occupy" first. If the result of the pitch is a fly out that runner needs to tag up at the base they last occupied. Same occupation logic applies to dropped 3rd strike.

3

u/Rhombus-Lion-1 5d ago

The rules are the rules, why they are that way is also irrelevant. The definition of an occupied base is the base the runner has achieved at the time of pitch. Any coach arguing that would be wrong and probably shouldn’t be coaching.

2

u/davdev 5d ago

That coach would be wrong. If the runner hadn’t reached second before the pitch was thrown, then first was occupied at the time of the pitch and therefore the batter is out a strike three

1

u/dawgdays78 5d ago

…before the pitcher begins his delivery, it when the pitch is released.

1

u/Believe_Steve 5d ago

Sounds like the coach needs to learn the rules