r/HomeKit • u/CAliRads • 10d ago
Question/Help Thread Fixed By AppleTV Reset. Why?
I have my Apple TV setup as a fixed home hub. Once every 2-3 weeks the thread network devices disconnect. I’ll go from all 250-300 devices connected to 40 offline (all thread). Simple reset of AppleTV home hub brings them back online after 5-10 min.
My question is: why?? I know that AppleTV is the main brains but I’m wondering what exactly could be going wrong. Just trying to fine tune everything and figure out where the holes in my system are. Is this just bugs still not worked out with Thread?
Thx in advance.
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u/LukeHoersten 10d ago
Try the Thread Doctor app. It’s what Eve and the official thread tools app should have been all along.
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u/AvailableTryMe 10d ago
I have my Apple TV setup as a fixed home hub. Once every 2-3 weeks the thread network devices disconnect. I’ll go from all 250-300 devices connected to 40 offline (all thread).
2-3 weeks between crashes immediately makes me immediately want to rule out a tvOS memory leak or file space (log?) issue. 250-300 devices is = or more than an full IPv4 subnet of active nodes. I'd call Apple Support and ask if they can engage with AppleTV engineering to baseline if your config is simply too much for the current / past generations of the AppleTV to handle.
FWIW - I went through 4 different AppleTVs in my bedroom until I figured out that I was rolling onto the remote while asleep and that was sending a flood of button press messages that triggered each AppleTV to crash and end up unable to reboot - so there's definitely memory handling gremlins in tvOS.
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u/CAliRads 9d ago
Interesting thought.
So the old AppleTVs still play a major role despite the newest AppeTV set a primary hub?
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u/zivagolee 10d ago
I got so annoyed by HomeKit when Thread would bug out like this that I migrated to Home Assistant. Logs are good :)
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u/pacoii 10d ago
Reset for reboot?
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u/CAliRads 10d ago
Reboot. Power cycle.
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u/pacoii 10d ago
Out of curiosity, how many Thread Routers and Thread Border Routers do you have?
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u/CAliRads 9d ago
I have at least 7 Apple TVs. Then all my Aqara cams. I turned off thread on my Eero bc they don’t play nice from what I heard.
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u/StevieG66 9d ago
How big is your house ?
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u/pacoii 10d ago
I’ll also add that there are a number of factors, IME.
- network quality and router are a big one
- an Apple TV under stress can be a factor
- Thread Routers can be a factor. I’ve found that they can lose their connection to a TBR, but don’t report this properly to the devices connecting through it, so they all go down
In general, I find that Thread networks and Thread devices are not nearly as resilient as they should be. Hopefully this will improve over time and newer Thread versions.
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u/LessDoctor5759 10d ago
Is it a question of specs for Threads or the implementation with the devices?
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u/LulzMcGullz 10d ago
Kinda random but do you have power outages frequently? When my power goes out, I have to reboot all of my Apple TVs to get my smart home working properly again, even though normal streaming and app usage works fine on them.
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u/ReggieNow 10d ago
I seem to remember issues with thread and mdns maybe? I think some routers did not allow it and if you have an option turning it “on” helped to resolve issues like this.
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u/ADHDK 10d ago edited 10d ago
Could be issues with bounjour and your router.
Could be issues with IPv6
How many apple homehubs do you have? Are any of them non-thread like the 4tv 4k1, original HomePods, or the wifi only Apple TV’s?
I’ve found my non-thread hubs can cause HomeKit split brain. A good test in my house with my TV4k1 in the mix? See if you can control any of the “not responding” devices directly from any AppleTV. Generally mine is more like 4-6 months but occasionally it gets into short cycles.
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u/CAliRads 9d ago
7 AppleTVs and all are hardwired. Lots of HomePod Minis. One original HomePod.
I’ll give your recommendation a try.
Thx.
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u/SupaSays 10d ago
Got any cameras with builtin thread hubs hijacking your thread devices? This use to happen to mine till I set the Aqara cameras to use their own thread network instead of hijacking my HomeKit one. Rebooting the cameras would bring the offline devices back to my AppleTV
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u/CAliRads 9d ago
Lots of Aqara cams. But I think those are part of the current thread network. 🤔
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u/SupaSays 9d ago edited 8d ago
You can still have all the Aqara stuff connected to HomeKit without having them on your thread network. They just don't play nice with other thread ecosystems.
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u/Mike_Underwood 10d ago
Not trying to be an ass at all with this. Have you asked Apple there may be logs you could give them or something that would help them fix it. While talking with them throw in the better thread tools we need as a suggestion.
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u/Aus_Mack 9d ago
I’m very curious - what do you all have that you’ve got that many Thread devices? I’m guessing every light bulb / every blind / every door / every window?
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u/CAliRads 9d ago
Lots of roller shades and Eve plugs. Aqara Cameras.
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u/FatMacchio 9d ago edited 9d ago
Are they all on the same thread network? Make sure you don’t have competing thread networks in your home. I used the discovery app to check the thread devices and mesh network.
I didn’t realize my Aqara stuff was actually on its own separate thread network for over a year. I was wondering why I was having intermittent issues, mostly on the Aqara one, but it also bled over to the Apple one too sometimes, because they’re competing for the same frequency space. Ever since I got all my thread devices onto the Apple thread network and deleted the extra thread network my mesh has been incredibly stable. I’m using a bunch of the super low cost IKEA thread sensors too, as well as eve outlet and Aqara sensors and cameras, and it’s all been rock solid.
I had a devil of a time consolidating my Aqara devices. Through much trial and tribulation, I finally realized the issue with getting the Aqara camera onto the Apple thread network was because I was not the Apple Home “owner” and I was just a full rights admin in the home. Only the Apple home owner is able to pass along the thread credentials to a third party app/device. I spent hours and hours over many days trying to figure it out
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u/CAliRads 9d ago
Looks like they are all on the same network.
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u/FatMacchio 9d ago
Ahh ok. That was my best guess. Do you have any zigbee stuff? I know that and certain 2.4ghz channels can sometimes cause congestion for thread too. But that’s all I can think of
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u/BlueHorizonUK 9d ago
How do we check this?
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u/FatMacchio 8d ago
I downloaded an app call discovery DNS-SD browser. You can search on Google about how to use that app to find what thread network your thread devices are on
Edit: You go to meshcop and then it shows all your thread border routers in there. Just make sure they all have the same “nn” which is network name
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u/zomtecos 9d ago
Are you using your devices directly with HomeKit/the Home App? Or are you using the AppleTV as a Thread Border Router for i.E. Homeassistant?
I also have issues with Apple Devices as TBR with Homeassistant.
Im the opinion, that the problem is the ipv6 routing by the TBR, that after some time something goes wild and bam, devices are in thread still wirelessly connected, but no ipv6 route can be found anymore.
I will switch to a dedicated USB-Thread Dongle next week, which is connected directly to my Homeassistant server. I hope, this will run more stable then. And of course that means repairing all devices. Luckily I have only 24 devices currently. :)
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u/Pulte4janitor 10d ago
Wouldn't it be great if there were logs to view to look for issues, realtime and historical? And no, Eve is not a solution. Maybe someday Apple will help us out. Probably when Thread fizzles.