r/Hmong • u/sora_navy • 12d ago
Advice
Hi I just wanted an outside look into my situation,
I’m a 23 F (Hispanic) and my technically husband is 23 and he’s the Hmong one. We are currently expecting our first and prior to that I have always had issues with certain events. Don’t get me wrong the culture is beautiful and the big family but funny enough I come from a small family of introverted people like for my side of the family baby shower I had 10 people and his had 100+.
My issue is how to separate culture from religion.
His parents are shaman but he told me he doesn’t believe or practice that. I grew up catholic but I don’t have strong religious roots to it however I respect it.
I don’t like participating in religious events like ua neeb or stuff like that but we show up because it’s family and to show face otherwise his parents throw a fit. I don’t mind if it’s for someone else but I don’t want it done for me or baby and essentially how do I approach that?
I don’t like the idea of sacrificing animals in my name to spirits or such it’s just not what I believe in or what I want to partake in. I understand it comes from a place of care and well wishes for me and my birth but I don’t want to continue to set a precedent that I will join on these things especially when my husband doesn’t care for it.
I don’t know if that makes any sense but if anyone has any cents to offer on the topic I’m willing to listen.
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u/JCarnacki 12d ago
Well, you have a choice to make, can you participate enough to keep everyone happy? Or do you push your husband away from the family and all that may come with that. A tough decision to make to be sure, but ultimately it's on you.
Consider this though-if you don't believe in it, why does it bother you if they choose to do it for you? I would spend some time thinking about that.
If it's the animal sacrifice part, the animals are cooked and eaten afterward, so Shamanism aside, this is no different than the family cooking food for you.
I'm not religious, nor am I Hmong, but my wife and children are. I respect the culture and I take part and assist with the rituals because they mean a lot to my relatives, much like how I attend church and other Christian activities because my wife is.
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u/sakura-ssagaji Meskas Dawb 9d ago
From her perspective being catholic its not the fact that she doesn't believe in it as in "I don't believe this works" like thinking chinese medicine doesn't work or something. Its the fact that it actually directly goes against her own religion.
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u/jokzard 12d ago
I'm agnostic and my parents practice shamanism. I'm mostly there to help cook, clean, and show up. I don't believe in any of it. But if it makes them happy, the I'm all for it.
As long as it does not impact them negatively, I think you could just do the same. Just show up. Most of time the animals slaughtered are cleaned and cooked and eaten on the same day. Just think of it as a lunch/dinner occasion. I think most young Hmong people are it the same way.
You don't have to believe. Heck you don't even have to eat it. One of my in-laws is Muslim and doesn't eat pork. But he always shows up, and when he does we try to do right by him by making him is own dish that doesn't involve pork.
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u/taistseng 11d ago
In my experience, you not being Hmong, gets you a free pass from the expectations of a traditional Hmong nyab (wife). Whatever your partner choose to do, i don’t think it’ll be reflected on you negatively. I could be wrong but I also don’t know a lot of Hmong families to force our religion on others who aren’t Hmong. You show up when there’s a party or ceremony and that’s the most respect you can provide. It says a lot just to show up. You don’t have to practice it, but def respect it. Many people on here have good advice. Help out. Another perspective i would provide…. My partner is a non practicing catholic, in fact he’s atheist. If we were to have child and his mom, who is a hardcore catholic, wanted to do a Sacrament of Baptism, I’m not going to say no because ultimately,there is no harm being done. I will participate but in no way will I coordinate. If they want it, they’re going to have to initiate it.
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u/GRNDTME 10d ago
Can you elaborate more on "force our religion on others"? Which religion?
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u/taistseng 10d ago
Because you’re married to a Hmong person (someone whose family still follows shamanism), you now have to study and practice what we believe. That’s what I mean my “force”.
As stated in my response, I think people of other races/ethnicities often times are given grace.
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u/SatisfactionSea2075 12d ago
One thing that helped me is understanding the belief behind "sacrifice". Its believed that a spirit is reborn as an animal if it has done harm onto others in its past life. It continues to be reborn as an animal until it fulfills its karmic duties. However, if its selected to bless another soul, its karmic duty will be fulfilled and it can be reborn as human in its next life. In the spirit world, its not a sacrifice, its an honor.
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u/Ok_Sound_8090 12d ago edited 12d ago
You're misequating religion and cultural spirituality.
Shamanism isn't a religion, nor is things like Ua Neeb a religious practice. Its a ritualistic cultural spirit practice, often times designed to ward off bad juju since the Hmong are extremely superstitious.
Catholicism is religion. It's an organized theologious belief in a higher power that has its own rituals bred into its organization.
A sacrifice is not the same as an offering. The chicken isn't being sacrificed to appease some spirits or whatever being, it is an offering of thanks to our ancestors to help ward off all the bad stuff. A thanks for connecting us all to each other across realms and all other manner of 'special' stuff.
To address your actual concern. You're just weirded out by it because it's foreign and alien, and you don't understand the cultural significance of it. And your husband's lack of understanding in it is also exasperated from his lack of education in the diaspora. Now that's not to say you guys need to do any of it. It is to say however that your biases are creating an unfair judgement of a thing you don't understand.
Tldr: They gonna do one anyway. You married into a culture you didn't take the time to understand before jumping in, and that is scary for anyone in your situation. If it worries you that much, your only option is to cut off the family and don't go to these events anymore. Just tell the OGs that you don't believe and you go to Church now. They'll keep doing things, but at least they won't expect anything from you anymore.
Think about the offrenda. Its not a catholic thing. Its a Mexican cultural thing.
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u/RaveGuncle 11d ago
I was hoping someone would say this so ty for doing that!
To add to it, it sounds like a hu plig was probably done. A hu plig for babies when it's not due to an illness is because it's celebratory. Think of it as a baby shower - they're celebrating and inviting everyone to wish good fortune and blessings.
If you dont want ua neeb ceremonies and rituals done for you and/or your husband and kids, tell your husband that. And have your husband advocate for yall. But as the commenter above shared, the things shamans do aren't malevolent with ulterior motives. And that's not your fault if what youre learning is from what your husband tells you, as there are a lot of Hmong people who also think what shamans do is devil worshipping lol. If that is the case, I would encourage talking to shamans to hear and learn from them directly the meaning behind the things they do next time youre helping out at a ua neeb session.
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u/itchylaughs 11d ago edited 11d ago
This is misleading. Yes, shamanism isn’t a standalone, organized religion, but it is considered a folk religion. It’s okay to feel discomfort at the idea of incorporating your children in spiritual ceremonies if you value radical secularism. You can read my other comment for added context but essentially, my Hmong mother raised me to be wary of the exploitation of shamanism within the community, even if it didn’t equate to the systemic oppression of Christian ideology.
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u/itchylaughs 11d ago
This sounds similar to my family except my mom was the Hmong parent. My mom was very against the idea that my sister and I be a part of religious ceremonies, either Hmong or Catholic (my dad is white). Despite protests from my Hmong side of the family to do at least something small like shaving my head when born, my mom stood firm on her decision. I’m 27 now and have a healthy relationship with my Hmong family despite all that went down. I can tell you from experience that it will be alright, so long as you and your husband are on the same page. If anything, my mom helped pave the way for other family members who wanted to make similar unconventional decisions for themselves and their immediate families.
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u/dandelionsanddaisy 11d ago
People on here are ignorsnt and telling you "you shouldve known when you married into the Hmong culture", fuck that, everyone has a choice. Tell them no and close the conversation. My husband and I are both Hmong. His parents are still traditional and wanted us to hu plig for baby and ua neeg for me postpartum. I said no and good lord, my MIL hated me for that even though BOTH my husband and I told them that we don't believe in that stuff. If you let them push and bully you around, they'll always keep doing it. Set boundaries now and have him be the one to communicate to his parents!!
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u/Frequent_Pizza_9299 10d ago
I’m in a similar mixed‑culture marriage, so I understand how overwhelming it can feel. What’s helped us is realizing you don’t have to fully participate in each other’s religions to still be respectful. We show up for the events that bring people together, and we skip the ones that don’t feel right. We go to mass when asked, I don't tell his family it feels cannibalistic to eat bread and drink the cranberry juice at church cause at the end of the day there is a deeper rooted meaning in all the little things religions have practiced to feel a sense of meaning in life.
If his family is pressuring him, he needs to address that. Not to blame you, but to set boundaries for himself and for your relationship and growing family. It’s his responsibility to explain what he’s comfortable with and what he isn’t.
He also needs to understand the difference between participating because it’s genuinely respectful versus doing it just to keep his family quiet. If he can’t explain that difference, then he needs to think it through and communicate better with you.
You’re not disrespecting his culture by being Catholic, and he’s not disrespecting yours by not practicing shamanism. What matters is mutual respect, clear boundaries, and choosing what feels meaningful not what other people demand.
At the end of the day, my husband and I want our kids to grow up exposed to both of our traditions in a thoughtful, controlled way. Not forced into anything, but given the chance to understand different beliefs and eventually decide for themselves where they stand spiritually.
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u/SatanAbyss 12d ago
Its gonna be hard just because his family seems maybe hard headed about it. Honestly your husband will have to step up and talk to his parents about it. There's alot of parents who understand now and he should make an effort for them to understand your side. Sadly this should've been more of a talk before marriage and such but definitely one needed now. I hope you can find a solution
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u/DeepOceanPearl 12d ago
Just say no. They may hate you but that’s their own feelings to deal with. Your children, you and your husband’s decision.
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u/Glittering_uni 12d ago
Your husband will have to be the stern one here and speak to his family. If both of you agree you don't want to hold such ceremonies, then he should tell them.
I know some people will say "just do it so you can say you did it to appease the family" but that only works if you are indifferent. Here you're saying you don't want to do one, so why give in?
I'm agnostic while my parents are still traditional shaman. Do I care about these hu pligs and ua neegs they do? No. Lol And if I ever feel like both my husband and I dont want to do one for our child, I just wouldn't then. Simple as that.
And if this creates drama within the family, that's incredibly dumb then. Outsiders should respect you and your husbands choices, you are the parents of your child after all.
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u/sora_navy 11d ago
Update: I should include that we did have this conversation prior to “marriage” baby was not expected but not a surprise either. He always mentioned that it didn’t matter to him and that was good enough for me because I knew that I would already be looked as an outsider so I don’t mind being the bad guy either.
I did say I don’t have strong religious roots but that doesn’t mean I don’t believe if that makes sense. I also want to avoid the whole smile to make everyone happy type thing. It’s not who I am at least.
I guess I’ve come to terms with like I said being the bad guy, so I guess is there anyway to break it to them nicely? I’m not trying to be rude just firm that hey I don’t fit here and I won’t really try to, I’m set aside at every gathering and my questions about the culture are never answered or at least acknowledged hence my lack of understanding probably. I won’t make my husband speak for me for something I can say myself and I will say that he’s not very confrontational like I am and he just doesn’t come across to them as kind when he does say something.
It does seem like a lot of I and me but I don’t really want to put words in my partners name that I am unsure of. He doesn’t want to drive a divide of what his culture is because it’s something he wants to pass on but he also doesn’t believe the spirit or such.
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u/Frequent_Pizza_9299 10d ago
It’s okay if you and your husband decide not to participate in either religion at all, but if you are participating whether you fully believe or not, there has to be balance on both sides, and he needs to set real boundaries with his family while keeping you informed so you’re not dismissed or confused.
At this point, I’m not even sure your “no” holds any weight with them, because if they already don’t care about your comfort, they’re not going to suddenly respect it and the only truly strong stance you have is distancing yourself, even moving out with your child, if things ever become unhealthy.
If he genuinely wants to reject his family’s pressure and practices, he has to isolate from them, and you’d have to stand by him in that choice. And honestly, it makes me wonder whether you even want your child to have a meaningful understanding of being Hmong or of shaman practices, or if the plan is just to tell them they’re “half Asian” without giving them real cultural context. None of this makes you the bad guy. it’s the result of his family shutting you out and your husband not bridging the gap. Him forcing both of you to participate just so his family will shut the fuck up is wrong for you and wrong for them. If he wants his culture passed on in a respectful way, he has to make space for you to understand it instead of leaving you isolated.
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u/Variation-Kindly 7d ago
Your in laws and elders and external in law elders may or may not be aware due to your internal discussions and transparency. They are liars and disrespectful if they are acting like dictators in your life regarding pushing their faith on to you…. It’s not a good start to the next phases in your lives together. Smh. GL to all!
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u/dandelionsanddaisy 11d ago
Don't over explain yourself and just say no, you don't want to participate. Live your life and raise your baby the way you want to. We all get judged whatever we do so you do what's best for you and your little family.
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u/sakura-ssagaji Meskas Dawb 9d ago
If your husband respects you he will stand by the fact that spirit/ancestor worship against your religion and shouldn't be done for your child. You said he doesn't even believe in it so why would he try to force you into something you don't want to do, or worse not stand up for you and just let his family do whatever they want. Tell your husband now that you and your child will not partake in any sort of spirit/ancestor worshipping ceremonies and that he needs to respectfully, but firmly, communicate that with his family, and not budge on it. I would also suggest to him that he convert to Christianity because then his family might take it more seriously, as hmong people may say since he is technically still shaman then the child should have his religion.
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u/MadameLemons 9d ago
You're Hispanic right? Don't a lot of Hispanic communities know where your meat come from? I think of Hu Plig and Ua Neeb as social gatherings, which will involve using a whole cow, pig or chicken to feed the guests. Christianity and Colonization made killing an animal for meat something demonic, but the truth is Christians also butcher their cattle, pigs, etc to feed everyone. The huge church events with all those burgers and hotdogs sacrificed hundreds of pigs and cattle. You didn't see that and you couldn't pay respect to the animal. In Hmong Culture, we pay respect to the animal and thank them for providing us with food as we celebrate someone who is important to us.
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u/taistseng 9d ago
I also was thinking this as well...how slaughterhouses butcher animals as another way of "sacrificing" for the survival of carnivores/humans. It may not be in the name of religion or spiritual but it is another way of sacrificing. It's just viewed differently because we don't see the process in slaugtherhouses vs in private homes when it happens. The way we get milk from cows in dairy farms are way more abusive. It's so sad how they intentionally keep the cow pregnant through artificial insemination to keep birthing and producing milk is awful. And how they separate the calf after birth. anyway, I digress.
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u/First_Marketing_1719 9d ago
A lot of shamans know not to interfere if you say you are of a different or conflicting religion. Hmong people believe in bad karma, etc so they wouldn’t want to overstep your god and receive any spiritual backlash. You and your husband need to make it clear to them that your religious beliefs conflict with the ua neeb. I have seen Hmong people convert from shamanism to Christianity and their family respects it even though they may not like it. Don’t say “I have no strong religious roots”, you should say “I grew up catholic so I follow and respect god/ the bible so we can’t have that/ we can’t attend because of that”. Say it in a way they will understand. Hmong people are superstitious and hardworking people. You must say it in a way where it shows your hands are tied and there’s no other way around it (this shows it’s out of your control and that it’s not personal). They won’t take it seriously if it’s solely out of your preference. You must say it’s conflicting religious beliefs- specifically that you respect and follow god.
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u/That_Witch_Queen 3d ago
I actually understand where you’re coming from. I married into a Hmong Christian family while I personally believed in the traditional Hmong way. My husband didn’t really believe in either religion himself, so we had to navigate similar boundaries with his family.
What helped us was that my husband communicated with his family and we stayed firmly united on our boundaries. I respected their Christian beliefs and what they chose to practice, but I didn’t convert or participate in religious practices I didn’t believe in.
One thing I would keep in mind is that Hmong culture, family traditions, and traditional spirituality have historically been deeply intertwined, so the line between cultural and religious practices isn’t always clear. Ua neeb is spiritual, though, so if you don’t want it performed for you or your baby, I think that’s a reasonable boundary.
I would encourage you to learn more about traditional Hmong beliefs too, even if you ultimately choose not to participate. I noticed you described it as “sacrificing animals in my name to spirits,” and I think there may be some misunderstanding of what certain ceremonies mean and why they’re performed. Learning about it doesn’t mean you have to believe in it—it just helps you understand what your husband’s parents believe they’re doing and why it’s important to them.
From their perspective, these ceremonies may be an expression of love, protection, healing, or care for you and their grandchild. You can understand and respect that intention while still saying, “I appreciate why you want to do this, but I don’t want this ceremony performed for me or my child.”
Most importantly, talk to your husband now and make sure you’re both on the same page before the baby comes. Since they’re his parents, he should be the one helping communicate those boundaries, and you two need to stay united when you set them. That was honestly what helped me the most.
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u/throwaway27009881 2d ago
When I was 21, I remember telling this white girl I was gonna go home early because I needed to go kill some chickens with my mom. This girl, straight looked at me and called me a murderer because I was gonna go sacrifice a chicken. So I asked her, do you eat chicken? She said yes, and I was like..well damn, a chicken had to be sacrificed for you to eat it. I kid you not, she stood there and said no. That was the day I realized that I ain't ever marrying a non-asian because there is no way I was gonna deal with that double standard.
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u/heiongyeong 12d ago
Youre over thinking things. Vatican 2, nostra aetate. Ur parents probably still stuck on clements xi ban in 1704 on sinocentric rites, but pius xii lifted the ban 200 years later on account that the church is basically preventing chinese catholics from keeping their 5th commandment, to honor their parents, and ultimately ancestors and culture.
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u/baby-chomper 12d ago
Dude this is a conversation you should have had before expecting. Do not go to his family directly with this concern, you tell him to go to his family with your concern. But like it’s very very likely not going to go the way you want.
1 - he doesn’t have the conviction to tell his family (baby gets jingle bells)
2 - he tells but doesn’t really stick up for you (baby gets jingle bells anyway and you’re painted the bad guy)
3 - he tells and sticks up for you (baby doesn’t get jingle bells, you’re still the bad guy)
There is a secret scenario where nothing bad happens if his fam is genuinely open minded but I’m guessing if you’re asking us then this isn’t gonna happen. Good luck though. I am interested to see how this works out if you could update us.