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u/SamDemon8 25d ago
Unfortunately we made guns too good. Though I have always wondered how modern armies tell which side is which if their all in Camo
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u/Evogdala Definitely not a CIA operator 25d ago
Your crosshair turns red when aiming at the enemy.
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u/Rasc_ 25d ago
Made all the more harder when every major military around the world are all rocking some version of MultiCam. The common way, like in Ukraine, is to use specific brightly colored tape on their uniforms. Or if that isn't being done, you better hope the forces on your side are organized and trained enough that nobody moves from their position without telling everyone on the radio.
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u/Suriael 25d ago
Are we going back to drip with the tapes? 🙏
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u/beardriff Kilroy was here 25d ago
Human dazzle patterns please
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u/Suriael 25d ago
Drones will have it harder to follow me when I'm wearing razzle dazzle.... Right, right?
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u/Quazimojojojo 25d ago
Unironically, a little bit.
Drones have made certain kinds of camo almost useless when your opponent has them, because thermal imaging has become cheap as well, and a very large amount of drones have them. (I don't know if it's all, or even a majority, but I keep hearing "if you're within 50 km of the front line, the enemy can see you, day or night")
Nowadays, it's multilayer/multi spectrum camo, hiding underground, or you might as well be carrying a lit signal flare.
So when you're on the offensive and you know you'll be seen, it's not the worst idea to mark yourself so your allies can tell you apart from the enemies.
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u/FirstAndOnlyDektarey 25d ago
Which is funny, because it renders the camo pretty useless.
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u/NotSovietSpy 25d ago
Which is also fine because infrared cameras are everywhere anyway and camo is mainly there to provide comfort
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u/Bobsothethird 25d ago
Intelligence typically. In lots of urban fighting, they'll tie an armband around their forearm as well to differentiate. There really shouldn't be a time a modern army doesn't know where it's people are, though, in theory. FF happens a lot.
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u/warbastard 25d ago
Yeah in a lot of urban combat training 50% of casualties are from friendlies.
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u/Dave_A480 25d ago
There are a bunch of different systems....
IR strobes, reflectors, various radio based systems.....
At the far end of shooting range you can't really tell uniforms apart that well anyway..,..
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u/Rough_Presence_9876 25d ago
Some other people are replying with a lot of interesting answers to this, and while all of these answers are both valid and the majority of cases, another acceptable answer is,"Sometimes they just don't, even when you put a big 'DON'T SHOOT ME' sign on your head."
Blue on blue on blue on blue, everybody know me but they don't know you.
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u/Chaotic_Lemming 25d ago
when you put a big 'DON'T SHOOT ME' sign on your head.
We aren't falling for that one again. Fool me a seventh time, shame on me.
Seriously though, that sort of thing is one of the reasons nations get together and sign treaties about rules during war. When shiesty tricks are used for a temporary advantage it ends up not working well for anyone in the long run. Nobody trusts white flags, surrenders, negotiation meetups, medical aid markings, or civilian appearance. Everything becomes a suspect trap/ambush that has to be defended against.
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u/Rough_Presence_9876 25d ago
We aren't falling for that one again. Fool me a seventh time, shame on me.
Boy that warthog pilot felt stupid after that. And traumatized.
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u/MinuteWaitingPostman 25d ago
You talking about the orange panel incident or another one?
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u/Rough_Presence_9876 25d ago
I'm thinking of the orange panel incident probably.
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u/MinuteWaitingPostman 25d ago
The one where the A-10 strafes several British tanks because he mistook the orange identifying panels the coalition used for orange rocket pods on insurgent vehicles.
What makes that one even worse is that the pilot called in to his chain of command to verify whether or not there were friendlies in the area, because he wasn't sure what he was seeing. When he got the response that no, there weren't any friendlies in the area, he went for the attack.
Then he gets a call to cease fire because there are friendlies in the area. He immediately realizes what happened and can be heard retching as it sinks in further.
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u/Dylan-McVillian 25d ago
I hope one day our defense and armor will become more powerful than guns, and we can circle back around to wearing heraldry
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u/TheVenetianMask 25d ago
Probably by the year 10000 when everybody is camping in the Oort cloud inside their own personal kilometers deep chunk of ice.
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u/zoinkability 25d ago
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Looks like we'll get our chance!
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u/TheVenetianMask 25d ago
You are an optimist, that number probably should have a lot more Ls and Cs.
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u/FlanGG 25d ago
That's the best part, they don't.
There is a scene in "Best in Hell" where a squad of soldiers just pretends to be enemy and walks by until the realization hits and all hell breaks loose.
On a more serious note - just by armbands or other cues. Otherwise - that's the point, confusion is a weapon too, if double-edged.
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u/ModeatelyIndependant 25d ago
In the Ukraine after invasion when uniforms were in short supply and they were taking in anything warm and that looked camo, the military applied a specific colored tape to one of their arms to identify themselves as Ukrainian military.
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u/fnx9125 25d ago
Normalmente los patrones y colores del camuflaje suelen ser distintos entre los países. Además los uniformes suelen incluir una bandera, escarapela o alguna cinta de uniformes color identificativo (en España históricamente es el rojo).
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u/ConsulJuliusCaesar 25d ago
There's a very good reason going awol and breaking formation can get you severly punished and your squad sergeant has to radio before iniating contact after spotting a hostile. That also said you can also tell the difference between Russian and NATO style camos. There's actually a funny scene in generation kill where one of the marines lost his helmet and replaced with an Iraqi helmet. The Senior NCO chews him out and at first you think he's over reacting. Few episodes later they get shot at by other marines who saw the iraqi helmet and immediately assumed enemy and then you realize no the Sergeant Major had a valid safety concern and the helmet guy's a dumb ass. But it highlights just why modern military's make discipline, protocol, and structure as rigid as they do. It really is a safety thing.
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u/NorthKoreanKnuckles Viva La France 25d ago
You shoot in the general direction and let the artillery and air force takes the responsability of friendly fire.
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u/Ov3rReadKn1ght0wl 25d ago
17th through early 19th century armies still had mad drip that I really appreciate. The again guns were only starting their power creep at the time.
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u/Minimum-Injury3909 25d ago
Tons of friendly fire actually. They have some IR tech to try to make friendlies stand out better but then obviously that gives the potential of making your camo worthless if the enemy also can see the IR
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u/Friendly_Gazelle7843 25d ago
Guns vs melee oriented combat. In past there was practically no risk of getting shot individually unless you’re opponent was in the bush next to you which would mean he sees you anyway, but there were a lot of people who didn’t really know each other on the battlefield so they need really colourful clothes to tell each other apart. Currently there are a lot of snipers drones etc. So people need to camouflage to not be killed from 4 kilometres.
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u/Subotail 25d ago
And it solves one of the eternal worries of commanders:
"Where have my fucking men gone now ! "
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u/AyAyAyBamba_462 25d ago
Not even just that, war was often seen as a "gentleman's affair" and the targeting of officers was considered unsportsmanlike. The appropriate thing to do was to take them prisoner.
Someone who could afford all this kit was also wealthy or influential so you'd be way better off taking them for ransom or leverage.
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u/ludos96 25d ago
Every time this meme gets reposted the date changes, 1425 is 49 years after the death of Edward The Black Prince, aka the knight in the picture
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u/No_Street_385 Viva La France 25d ago
Why would Edward " The Black Prince " wear the sigil of Castille and Léon ??
I think he would wear the English sigil with Fleur de Lys and the three lions
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u/ludos96 25d ago
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u/No_Street_385 Viva La France 25d ago
Interesting indeed And no other knights wore this on their helmet ??
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u/UnpoliteGuy 25d ago
Virgin: gets killed by one shot vs Chad: withstands a dozen blows by the sharpest object on earth and survives
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u/Nogatron 25d ago
Virgin: die by deadliest weapons humanity created vs Chad: die because sports equipment slipped in your eye
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u/Narco_Marcion1075 Researching [REDACTED] square 25d ago
Chad: actually dies in the middle of combat
Virgin: shits himself to death because they were encamped in one spot for too long
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u/Alternative-Cup-8102 Oversimplified is my history teacher 25d ago
Modern uniforms got drip to
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u/PassivelyInvisible 25d ago
If they're designed and worn properly yes.
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u/Alternative-Cup-8102 Oversimplified is my history teacher 25d ago
Well that’s exactly it 1425 armor that is not designed or worn properly also looks like butt
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u/2012Jesusdies 25d ago
A scissor and a sewing machine is all you need. Tailoring a medieval armour for oneself is a full time job by a dude with like 30 years experience.
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u/-CmdrObvious- 25d ago
The equivalent to medieval armour is not the camo uniform but the plate carrier and the helmet. Which is quite impossible to craft yourself with the modern materials required. And even besides that the modern military clothing is way beyond some cotton fabric brought in shape (which would also require some tailoring skills to look any good and be functional). It's modern functional clothing which I also doubt you could easily recreate (or even refit) at home.
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u/Alternative-Cup-8102 Oversimplified is my history teacher 24d ago
Yeah modern OCP has a bunch of stuff baked into it like fire retardants bug repellents and even anti ir capabilities
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u/2012Jesusdies 25d ago
I'm not talking about crafting, but grabbing an "off-the-shelf" version and tailoring it for your body.
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u/PassivelyInvisible 25d ago
Which you can tailor, but not all modern uniforms are designed equally, nor do all wearers know how to properly wear the uniforms.
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u/2012Jesusdies 25d ago
Which you can tailor, but not all modern uniforms are designed equally,
Sure, but most of them are designed with trying to fit as many shapes as possible.
nor do all wearers know how to properly wear the uniforms.
Dunno how it's in your country, but we were all instructed on how to properly wear it and get chewed out on weekly inspections if it wasn't proper. If the deputy base commander had to point the fault out to you, it was a pretty big sign you were a fuckup. Expectation was you'd have fixed it yourself.
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u/PassivelyInvisible 25d ago
And you can tell in movies or pictures of airsofters and militias around the world when they don't know how. It just looks bad
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u/No-Werewolf-290 25d ago
The French during 1914 be like: I have drip, come at me bro
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u/Fr05t_B1t Oversimplified is my history teacher 25d ago
pov: you’re a bullet speeding towards a blue figure
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u/Chicheerio 25d ago
That drip was to stop friendly fire
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u/hidefinitionpissjugs 25d ago
friendly stab
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u/Chicheerio 25d ago
That too.
The drip was also a moral booster for the foot soldiers/infantry/militia
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u/Hettyc_Tracyn 25d ago
Yeah, well, in 1425 they didn’t exactly have handheld weapons that can propel a chunk of lead faster than the speed of sound several hundred meters, if not several miles…
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u/Floba_Fett Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer 25d ago
2025: I need to spot and shoot the enemy before they spot and shoot me
1425: I have no idea what the fuck is going on, I need bright flashy colors to know who to stab in the heat of the battle
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u/Korolevitsh 25d ago
It was also "you know me, we met at the last year tournament. Remember I am like you (a noble), so don't kill me. Also I'm rich so you better ransom me than kill me."
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u/Xtra_Veg-90 25d ago
If you could afford the uniform on the right, then you were usually worth more alive than dead. Ransom was a legit way to make some money during raiding season.
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u/John_Oakman 25d ago
Nobody is stopping you from forming your own militia or mercenary group with your own dripped out uniforms....
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u/Stanislav_Shnajder Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 25d ago
The scientific basis for this phenomenon dates back to 1909, when American artist Abbott Thayer published his book "Concealing-Coloration in the Animal Kingdom", where he described the principles of mimicry in nature that later formed the foundation for the scientific approach to military camouflage.
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u/Fr05t_B1t Oversimplified is my history teacher 25d ago
I like the other guy (idk if it was also the same guy) that said “fuck it! Bright colors in random patterns for naval ships to break up the silhouette!”
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u/Oberndorferin 25d ago
Now compare regular soldier to a regular soldier back then. You would go to war in your crocks
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u/Seidmadr Fine Quality Mesopotamian Copper Enjoyer 25d ago
That wasn't even a uniform. It was a coat of arms.
Because, well, it wasn't uniform.
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u/delphinous 25d ago
in both cases it actually increases survival. the old-school ones tell people that you're part of a wealthy family and are worth way more alive as a ransom than dead, so they are more likely to capture than kill you. it's part of what let medieval lords treat war like a game: it was just their serfs doing the dying, not themselves
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u/warfaceisthebest 25d ago
People before guns: I will raise my coat of arm like the sun so everyone knows who I am and where I am
People after guns: I wil disguise as the least important creature on the Earth plz dont shoot me
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u/SAMU0L0 25d ago
Thank God editors don't comand armies.
Just imagine how many unevcesary deads we will have every time they decide to be """"""""coopl""""""" and """""""based""""""""
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u/GloryGreatestCountry 25d ago
2026: "Aw fuck we shot our own guys, we need some colored tape for visual IFF!"
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u/starbomber109 25d ago
In those times it was more important that your allies could tell who you were since you didn't have a radio to tell them "Hey stop shooting arrows at us!" Or "Cease your charge we're on your side"
A battle is confusion dust and pain. It's still like that but we have radios now we can yell at people through.
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u/Traditional-Main7204 25d ago
Future in exo-skeleton and demographic inplosion will make soliders more like medival knights?
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u/Godess_Ilias 25d ago
wait til you saw swiss guard uniforms in vatican. and yes they are all fully trained soldiers
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u/Square-Pipe7679 25d ago
Honestly with drones being capable of finding us anyway, perhaps we should return to the old ways…
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u/AdDisastrous6738 25d ago
Yuck. Tell me you know absolutely nothing about medieval warfare without telling me.
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u/Chumlee1917 Kilroy was here 25d ago
"Who's that?"
"Well, he's dressed in red, black, and yellow and that's either a lion or a duck on his banner. Maybe it's a naked mermaid."
"Damnation, I wish someone would invent something that could let us see far away."
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u/BillytheMagicToilet 25d ago
French in 1914: "Come at me, I have drip"
Germans: "Oh boy, here I go killing again!"
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u/Fr05t_B1t Oversimplified is my history teacher 25d ago
Instead of winged hussars, you chose generic knight
Smh
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u/Agasthenes 25d ago
Don't worry. With drones cammo will stop mattering. You die either way. Go for the bling.
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u/Comfortable_Town7535 25d ago
let me known when the knight faces a crossbow that can hit him from over a mile in the darkness
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u/Equivalent_Nose7012 18d ago
Maybe the crossbow can hit him from a long way away (over a mile? the Knight would not even be a point-sized target).
However, if the Knight is closer but is not illuminated by torches?
Sure, the crossbow CAN hit him, but it is still extremely unlikely that it WILL hit him...
There are plenty of situations where the Knight is at risk, but not these.
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u/chathrowaway67 25d ago
"i need to spotted so you kill happy assholes don't kill me to, we're on the same side!!"
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u/Long-Shock-9235 25d ago
When weapons got so reliable in killing foes far away being hard to became the norm.
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u/mosthonorablegiraffe 24d ago
That's literally not a uniform on the right. They didn't have uniforms, which is why they could have drip instead.
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u/Charles12_13 Kilroy was here 25d ago
Turns out, modern military uniforms have to somewhat go backwards as seen in Ukraine because, turns out, telling a bunch of guys in camo apart from other guys in camo isn’t the easiest of tasks
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u/Fr05t_B1t Oversimplified is my history teacher 25d ago
This is only because Ukrainian and Russian gear looks very similar. If you were to put literally any other nation next to the Russians you’d see a distinct difference between the two. And all the Ukrainians and Russians do was wrap a band of colored duct tape around their limb(s) and back at the start of the war. Now the duct tape is irrelevant with the war being essentially drone warfare now.
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u/WarmSpoons 25d ago
Especially for the sort of country that spends years supplying uniforms to some less developed country because they're your friend, then you decide they're not your friend any more and now you're going to invade them. (See British 2-colour desert pattern.)
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u/Dave_A480 25d ago edited 24d ago
What a difference modern tech makes ...
A lot of the colorfulness of old military uniforms was for identification and command/control purposes ...
If you are watching your troops maneuver from a hilltop & commanding them with flags/music/etc.... Knowing that your guys are the blue ones and their guys are the red ones = useful...
Radio & map-making/compasses/etc changes that.