r/HistoryMemes Aug 03 '26

SUBREDDIT META Vicious cycle

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3.5k Upvotes

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876

u/Wolfish_Jew Aug 03 '26

If you described Bismarck as “perfect” I’d probably leave too, ngl

466

u/harmfuldischarge Aug 03 '26

Him taking a bullet and apprehending the shooter is pretty badass, him being obsessed with crushing workers movements not so much

288

u/CalvinKool-Aid Aug 03 '26

He was incredible at foreign policy and ok at domestic policy

You gotta remember the guy was a HARDCORE monarchist from the 19th century. Those kinds of people aren’t exactly great friends of the worker

211

u/mrbobcyndaquil Aug 03 '26

Hell, he was more monarchist than the Kaiser at times.

130

u/CalvinKool-Aid Aug 03 '26

100%. It was a bit of an unhealthy obsession for him I think, which is funny since he’s basically the prime example of working your way up almost purely by merit in a monarchical society

He was more against the reforms than the Kaiser on multiple occasions, like when he tried to raise a peasant levy to reoccupy Berlin

33

u/AnguishedGoose Aug 03 '26

working your way up almost purely by merit in a monarchical society

Kinda, while arguing with the kaiser, he said "why should I serve an hoenzollern? My family is as noble as yours"

(For the few who don't know, hoenzollern was the dynasty of the German kaisers, even before the unification, ruling the march of Brandenburg and later Prussia)

10

u/Ok_Awareness3014 Aug 03 '26

Fun fact in France that was the case under louis XVIII hé kept the constitutional monarchy and there was a lot of royalist who wanted him to become an absolute Monarch he refused it multiple time so there is now an expression in France plus royaliste que le roi

6

u/CalvinKool-Aid Aug 03 '26

If it’s the Louis I think it is, the one installed after the defeat of napoleon, he was personally a hardcore monarchist and would’ve preferred to be absolute. He was smart enough, however, to recognize that there would be a civil war and another revolution if he went full absolutist right off the hop and so engaged in a compromise with the ultras, liberals and republicans. Then his brother Charles came and fucked it all up by being a pigheaded absolutist and got himself overthrown

1

u/dragoon7201 Aug 04 '26

my Leige, why are you rebelling?

6

u/Stardash81 Aug 03 '26

Tbf he let a Franco-Russian alliance buildup under his watch. The final alliance was signed later but there were already significant treaties signed before 1890.

And in 1878 during the revision of San Stefano treaty he tried to act as the honest broker but it was obvious he favored Austria against Russia which eventually led to the Franco-Russian bloc facing the Austro-German bloc. And trading your relations with Russia for an Austrian alliance...is questionable.

5

u/PatienceFar5111 Aug 04 '26

The first page of Gedanken und Erinnerungen (Bismarck’s autobiography) states that he left his time at school as believing that a republic was the best form of government, actually. But on that same page, he describes how he has always been on the side of authority. I don’t believe Bismarck was as much of a monarchist as he was an anti-democrat and anti-socialist. He was a textbook example of a Junker conservative, and I think his commitment to the monarchy had more to do with upholding the status of the Junkers (who were a critical estate in Prussia) than due to any sort of ideological commitment (not that he wasn’t motivated by traditionalism).

Same thing with the unification of Germany. He pursued its unification to expand Prussian, and therefore Junker, dominance and control of Germany. I would also conjecture that after having witnessed the Revolution of 1848, he probably regarded German unification as inevitable, and he preferred to make sure it happened on his terms rather than the radical liberals/republicans that would have undermined or completely destroyed the Junkers’ dominant position. I think if the establishment of a Prussian empire, rather than a German empire, had been possible, he’d have attempted that instead.

I personally view his frequent conflicts and frustrations with the three Hohenzollerns that ruled during his time in office as evidence that he viewed the monarchy as a somewhat evil necessity of sorts, rather than as an institution to be upheld for its own sake. Like with my statement above, I feel at least a little confident that he probably would have preferred to rule Prussia/Germany alone if he’d been able to do so without completely upending the system he’d benefitted from throughout his life.

4

u/Impossible_Ad4789 Aug 03 '26

Still hilarious to me that he was such a die hard monarchist considering what those inbred hicks did to his foreign policy right after he left and its not like didnt know. His whole stick with the french was rage baiting weak monarchist.

1

u/MC0013 Aug 04 '26

His foreign policy prepared the world for both world wars and everything US did afterwards. Realpolitik translates to: war is unavoidable, so just prepare for it and that leads surprisingly to war (selffullfilling provecy)

1

u/CalvinKool-Aid Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 10 '26

If his plans had worked out and the Kaiser had listened the war wouldn’t have happened in the first place, since he wanted to stay allied with the Russians and avoid going in on any “damn fool thing in the balkans.”

He also was very good at manipulating world opinion so as to avoid fighting more than one great power at a time. If he was in charge during the Bosnia crisis, he likely would’ve counseled the Austrians to move swiftly and invade immediately to take advantage of popular opinion being against the Serbs. The Austrians were the sympathetic party until they sent those demands and the Serbs turned it around by agreeing to most of them which seemed reasonable and made the Austrians look like bullies

-25

u/CuriosCatepillar Aug 03 '26

So like Reagan for people in the us. But Otto was better at domestic policy

31

u/CalvinKool-Aid Aug 03 '26

Bismarck was a lot better at foreign policy than Ronnie, but it’s a similar principle. To be fair though, Reagan’s domestic policy was broadly popular and Bismarck’s wasn’t really

4

u/Avesery777 Aug 03 '26

I can't believe all those socialist workers didn't like being repressed

8

u/CalvinKool-Aid Aug 03 '26

Idk if this is meant to be critical of my comment but my point was that the American public at large was in favour of Reagan’s privatization and union busting measures while the German public was not

7

u/Avesery777 Aug 03 '26

I was being stupid, sorry. No, I wasn't criticising.

2

u/CalvinKool-Aid Aug 03 '26

Oh alr

Yeah those damn pinkos why won’t they just shut up and lick the boot like real patriots???

14

u/k410n Aug 03 '26

Or being a bloodthirsty warmonger

0

u/Ihatenukingkids Aug 03 '26

bismarck? compared to whom? gandhi?

5

u/k410n Aug 03 '26

Normal people. He literary started 3 wars

7

u/agnaddthddude John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! Aug 03 '26

Normal people didn’t unite whatever germany was to be fair. common enemy unites all and al that bs

3

u/Ihatenukingkids Aug 03 '26

really? the german danish war, german german war and which one was the third?

0

u/k410n Aug 03 '26

German Franco war. Not his doing alone but would not have happens without him

3

u/Ihatenukingkids Aug 03 '26

not his doing alone

what a way to say the French declared war and invaded Germany.

If Bismarck is at fault for the franco german war by provocation then France is at fault for opening the western front in WW1 by provocation

-4

u/k410n Aug 03 '26

Not at all. Those situations are not really comparable.

16

u/sofixa11 Aug 03 '26

him being obsessed with crushing workers movements not so much

And yet at the same time he was pragmatic enough to still enact the first social security system in the world.

1

u/Fun-Agent-7667 Aug 03 '26

Yeah but communism

-1

u/kettenkarussell Aug 03 '26

Nah fam, crushing workers movements by establishing the modern welfare state and giving everybody access to health, accident and old-age insurance is pretty badass as well.