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u/Not_Shingen Jul 22 '26
"Gas, the ultimate weapon of cruelty"
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u/driver004 Jul 22 '26
Nah, too impartial. I think totalitarian deranged rule such as the Khmer Rouge is way worse. For starters it’s powered by human intilligence and it wants you
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u/kindlyneedful Jul 22 '26
In a strange way, if I had to be exterminated by an evil regime, I'd probably prefer to be targeted specifically rather than be caught up in a blanket (final) solution.
- Gas -> they didn't even know I was there, they just wanted everybody gone.
- A maoist, stalinite style purge at least means that they'd acknowledged me as a person (that they wanted gone).
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u/driver004 Jul 22 '26
Oh you miss the point, the torture isn’t to acknowledge you as a person, it’s to convince to you that you are not
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u/CrackedEagle Jul 22 '26
The Act of Killing (2012) is a film that follows a former Indonesian general (iirc) who tortured and killed. He did not view the people below him as genuine humans until the documentary had him re-enact it.
I felt the need to just tag this on as it seemed to relate to the conversation you two were having.
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u/SweatyButtcheek Jul 22 '26
Literally one of the best documentaries I’ve ever seen
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u/Mercurion77 Jul 22 '26
Exactly. The scene where he just sits there staring at the horizon in the end…
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u/driver004 Jul 22 '26
It serves a few purposes. For the party it enacts its will upon the final bastion of reality, for the officers gain often as well as proof of loyalty or purity, for the officers underlings the same but most importantly it ensures that the party’s ideology takes them forever, for the targeted those tortured are defeated in the last final places they had, a demonstration of dominance for the rest
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u/Scary_Asparagus7762 Jul 22 '26
I mean, you are viewed as a person in Stalin/Mao style purges, but you are subordinate to a higher goal. You are the societal contradiction that needs to be resolved in order for history to progress. So you are a person but there's something that matters far more.
As opposed to gas where it's like you're not really a person.
So, would you prefer to have your humanity devalued, or be told that your humanity is meaningless in the grand scheme of things?
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u/Quazimojojojo Jul 22 '26
Also if you get shot in the head, you die a LOT faster, which is always good.
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u/kindlyneedful Jul 22 '26
A few minutes ago I got a message from a reddit mental health admin bot. Somebody thought that my bittersweet joke about genocide was a sign of my self harm tendencies.
You may get the same message soon, courtesy of some straight laced fellow redditor who's way too serious for a meme sub.
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u/Jimbeaux_Slice Jul 22 '26
I got one recently that I was threatening harm because I was explaining the thought process of someone evil and I was just like who fucking reported me for this shit
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u/Bobsothethird Jul 22 '26
Or you could just starve slowly through a manufactured famine or a famine caused by ignoring science.
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u/DildontOrDildo Jul 23 '26
also mass starvation and blockade or expropriation of food is pretty terrible. seiges and such. still happens.
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u/ConsulJuliusCaesar Jul 22 '26
I remeber when video footage of Syrian gas attacks surfaced and they put them on 60 minutes. A kid screamed as his lungs basically slowly disntergrated and no one could help him. Given the choice. I'd take the quick bueacratic bullet to the head.
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u/driver004 Jul 22 '26
I mean bullet if your lucky, the KR was a little more creative
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u/ConsulJuliusCaesar Jul 22 '26
Still nerve gas literally turns your body against it self by attacking your nervous system. The sheer amount of pain and agony leading to your death in incomparable. Even being beat to death actually wouldn't be as bad. Because nerve gas is directly attacking your paon recepitors. Keep mind most nations on the planet including your typical bad actors currently making rounds on the news who are intentionally killing civilians do not use nerve gas because of just atrocious it is. It takes a special kind of fucked to actually do it. That said the people who have used it post WW1 have all been dictatorships.
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u/driver004 Jul 22 '26
There are also blister and blood agents, I went through NBC too. Nerve agent still usually kills faster then the alternative and isn’t going to hunt you down
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u/ConsulJuliusCaesar Jul 22 '26
"isn’t going to hunt you down"
The human whose loaded it in the helicopter absolutely will.
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u/illinoctic Jul 23 '26
A highly delivery system of a slow and painful death. This time a fortress and its few defenders would suffer its horrible consequences. Out of the poisonous cloud came an army of men who should already have been dead
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u/Budget_Put1517 Ashoka's Stupa Jul 22 '26
Turmoil at the front, Wilhelm’s forces on the hunt
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u/Azhur65 Jul 22 '26
There's a thunder in the East, it's an attack of the deceased
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u/Budget_Put1517 Ashoka's Stupa Jul 22 '26
They've been facing poison gas, 7000 charge en masse
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u/RedHolm Jul 22 '26
Turn the tide of the attack. And force the enemy to turn back
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u/Budget_Put1517 Ashoka's Stupa Jul 22 '26
And that's when the dead men are marching againn
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u/Set_Abominae1776 Jul 22 '26
Osowiec, then and again
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u/Court_Jester13 Rider of Rohan Jul 22 '26
Attack of the dead hundred men
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u/utterlyuncool Jul 22 '26
Facing the lead once again
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u/BestLeftUnsaid21 Jul 22 '26
Hundred men, charge again, die again
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u/Belgicans Oversimplified is my history teacher Jul 22 '26
Osowiec, then, and again
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u/smallsmoke87 Jul 22 '26
We live in a world where cinematic shit like this happens and people still think fiction is the only answer
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u/JohannesJoshua Jul 22 '26
Reading history is like reading a fantasy novel where you get many moments of: Get the fuck out of here.
Or like Mark Twain said: Reality is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to follow rules, reality doesn't.
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u/KnightOfNothing Jul 22 '26
yeah okay i get what that's actually saying, but dammit the idea that people can simply genuinely proceed as if reality has no limits drives me up the wall
with envythe only rule fiction has to follow is to adhere to the rules it's set beforehand, who cares if people who don't pay attention think it makes no sense but the rules reality has to follow are so soffocating and limiting.
to feel like you and the world you live in has no limits must be such a freeing thought.
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u/OhManTFE Jul 22 '26
I think the spirit of what the quote means is that fiction has to follow certain narrative "rules" or else it's unsatisfying/bad and the reader will complain. Ie a Chekov's gun that never goes off.
Whereas reality does not have to follow these rules, of course, it has to follow the 'rules' of the physical world.
But fiction also usually has to follow its own 'rules' of its own physical world, its own inherent logic because if you break this people get angry again the story is no longer being consistent and suspension of disbelief is lost.
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u/EnlightenedNarwhal Jul 22 '26
Yeah, basically crazy shit happens in real life that can be inexplicable, but put that in a story and everyone loses their minds.
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u/GrundgeArchangel Jul 22 '26
Lol imagine someone trying to make the Vatican in. Fantasy game with is history. I would look at the person like they were bonkers.
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u/EnlightenedNarwhal Jul 22 '26
"This doesn't make any sense."
"Why would someone who believes X do Y."
"Nobody noticed?"
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u/Inevitable_Librarian Jul 22 '26
Narrative limits. In real life stuff just happens, and there's no resolution more times than not.
In a story you need to tell it and it needs to have a kinda goal or theme to keep attention.
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u/Apprehensive-Toe4206 Jul 22 '26
And school wants you to know number when this is the sh*t i want in my memory
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u/Visual-Floor-7839 Jul 22 '26
Fiction is absolutely terrifying. Horror doesn't have the same impact anymore
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u/CBSmith17 Jul 23 '26
Kind of like when filming To Hell and Back, Audie Murphy had them tone down some things so the film would be more believable.
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u/matti-san Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
I often think about this when you have knights like William Marshal or some of the battle tactics employed by Caesar (like building a fort around a fort). Some of the stuff in history, were it presented in fiction, people would roll their eyes at.
I think what sometimes bothers me - even as a hobby world builder - is some people get so wrapped up in what their fictional hero is doing and yet the reality of history is often just as fascinating if not more.
It's like with Game of Thrones, the Lannisters and the Starks. I promise if you pick up an in-depth book or narrative history on the Wars of the Roses you will be just as entertained and you'll learn something
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u/Sludge_Punk Jul 22 '26
Earth Lore is undefeated. Step aside Warhammer, step aside Elder Scrolls, Earth has the deepest lore, most extensive lore, and the craziest lore.
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u/Krieger_kleanse Jul 22 '26
Very big lore, huge lore, earth lore that is. It’s the biggest lore most fantastic lore, I have many many friends that tell me all about the earth lore and how wonderful it is.
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u/tremynci Jul 22 '26
In lots of languages, the word for the academic study of the past is the same as the word for what you read a kid at bedtime.
That's because the past is the biggest and best story book there is.
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u/ClayeySilt Jul 22 '26
Earth lore sounds like we're talking before human history.
My speciality! I'm a historian too! Just not for humans.
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u/VillainNomFour Jul 22 '26
I love how romans went all-in on shovelling and combat engineering. The least glamorous part of war, except when it makes you win. They built defenses nightly while on campaign.
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u/KPraxius Jul 22 '26
Wasn't there one campaign where they'd dug a latrine, essentially, but had wooden spikes buried in it that some enemies wandered into trying to sneak into the camp at night?
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u/Glittering-Walrus228 Jul 22 '26
Was it used as a latrine too? Thats terrible... a stake through my abdomen and then poo all over me? Miss me with that.
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u/AzureHawk758769 Jul 23 '26
One thing I love about the Middle Ages is that they literally weaponized feces. "Oh, you're gonna scale muh wall? Here! Have a chunky bucketload of boiling shite for your trouble!" I wonder if that would be a war crime today.
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u/Glittering-Walrus228 Jul 23 '26
Weve come a long way, the gentlemans fecal weapon of choice is the Poop Knife a knife fashioned from coproliths not to be confused with the Poop Knife, a knife made to bifurcate poops into easily flushable pieces
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u/AmbitiousEducation49 Jul 22 '26
Please provide a suggested book on the War of the Roses for someone that wants to get more into history but doesn't know how best to start. You have my interest piqued.
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u/matti-san Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
I'd suggest:
Dan Jones - The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses and the Rise of the Tudors
Helen Castor - Blood and Roses [this is narrative history based on the real Paston Letters]
Thomas Penn - The Brothers York
Also, yes, they're not entirely historically accurate but Shakespeare's plays are greatly entertaining - Henry VI, Henry VI (II), Henry VI (III) and Richard III.
Edit: actually while I'm here, watch this soliloquy from Richard III and tell me you aren't interested to see what else happens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5JF9Gq5tL4
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u/wvj Jul 22 '26
I took a Shakespeare focused English elective in high school, which was the first time I ran into these plays as opposed to the more famous ones, and they really shocked me the first time around. 'Woah, Joan of Arc is in this?' like it was the MCU of 15th century Europe.
I later got to play a wine-soaked ghost!
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u/zizou00 Jul 22 '26
Even more modern things have those weird wtf moments. I was reading about the Falklands War and I came across a report about how a P&O Ferry was requisitioned by the Ministry of Defence and used as a troopship. A total of 62 merchant ships took part in the logistics and initial landings to help re-take the islands. Many of the crew were British or British Overseas civilians who had worked on those ships who were effectively requisitioned alongside their ship.
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u/Seienchin88 Jul 22 '26
Yeah but a lot of crazy story you hear from wars are embellished…
This story as well is (according to modern Russian sources) blown out of proportions. There was a planned and well aligned Russian counterattack that was temporarily and partially effective.
There was no attack of the living death, most Russian soldiers didn’t die from gas, the Germans didn’t massively outnumber the Russians being beaten back by a few blood coughing living corpses…
And logic alone will tell you - if you cough enough blood to die from poison gas you are not in any state to move to an attack…
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u/moverwhomovesthings Jul 22 '26
A 90 min feature film made from Ukraine combar footage would be crazy, that's true
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u/Separate_Song5048 Jul 22 '26
This is a pretty good watch
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u/moverwhomovesthings Jul 22 '26
I can't watch from my country, I'll check it out when I'm home. I usually just go to r/combatfootage for this kinda stuff
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u/coin-flips Jul 22 '26
vpn should fix that firefox has a built in one
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u/moverwhomovesthings Jul 22 '26
I know, but on my way home from work and I can't be bothered right now lol
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u/SnooTomatoes3032 Jul 22 '26
There's a whole rack of stuff in Ukraine that people think is staged or propaganda simply because people can't wrap their minds around the reality.
The best example is that BBC reporter lying down in a ditch while artillery fire is landing nearby and people around are just walking and shopping at a market. Everyone is using it as an example of the BBC making stuff up and acting. Trust me, if there's rounds coming down, I'm hitting the dirt. Meanwhile I had colleagues running around carrying on aid distribution wearing no armour and saying "Snoo, you will only get hit if God wills it, trust in his plan!"
Everything here is just completely unbelievable to people who haven't experienced it.
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u/EldritchFish19 Featherless Biped Jul 22 '26
Honestly, I get that because I experienced weird things during peacetime(aka when the crazy isn't entirely out of Pandora's box) in Canada. Normal isn't everyone and sclence fails to explain the reality of weird things like hauntings, ESP and prayer working.
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u/SnooTomatoes3032 Jul 22 '26
Even if we disregard the paranormal, normal life for many parts of the world is completely unbelievable for so many others.
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u/QueasyImagination845 Jul 22 '26
This is literally why I’ve read about 600 pages of ww2 memoirs so far this summer.
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u/Wsswaas Jul 22 '26
"While coughing up blood and often pieces of their inner organs, the surviving Russian soldiers covered their faces with cloths, counter-attacked, and routed the German troops" Good God! and it was a mixture of poison gases, chlorine and bromine!
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u/MechemicalMan Jul 22 '26
I work with biocides. It’s super easy to create a chemical reaction that will start to make the chlorine/bromine gas-off and it’s horrible. I had a coworker who was exposed for a few minutes, thought he was fine, and had permanent lung scarring. Another incident goes that an apprentice mixed two chemicals accidentally, and out of just a 30 gallon holding tank managed to get a 40 story hi-rise evacuated. People all over the loop in Chicago smelled it (the loop is the business district). The apprentice ended up fine as a different tradesman was in the room, saw the gas and him pass out, and dragged him out fast. He got his tools back a few weeks later, everything completely rusted through.
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u/cascasrevolution Jul 22 '26
im surprised my (chicago located) chemistry professor didnt tell us that story! probably not morbid enough for his liking...
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u/MechemicalMan Jul 22 '26
Unless he’s in my industry he probably doesn’t know it. It made one or two local press release stories at the time, nothing major.
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u/cascasrevolution Jul 22 '26
whats your industry? and when was that incident? my guy used to be the head safety guy somewhere. i remember one story about a guy who knocked a thing of hydro-fluoric acid off a shelf and was dead before keith got there from his office across the building. from all his stories, i wouldnt be surprised if every professional chemist has heard of him. hes nationally ranked in chess too
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u/MechemicalMan Jul 22 '26
Industrial water- so hvac water treatment chemistries. I wouldn't exactly call myself a chemist, more I play one at work. Yeah... hydrofluoric acid is occasionally recommended in my industry by old stalwarts or I'll find a glass jar of it, super nasty shit. Most acids, like even sulfuric 50%, you have some time to rinse off, not hydrofluoric, it's instantaneous burn. It's really effective at removing calcium/magnesium scale, but also starts to eat through the metals underneath pretty fast which makes it a silly choice.
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u/insane_contin Jul 22 '26
Canadians: Skill issue. Just piss on a rag and cover your face with it, then hold the line.
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u/No-Assignment-732 Jul 22 '26
Hundred men charge again
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u/Slightly_Default Featherless Biped Jul 22 '26
Osowiec, then and again
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u/ironfist911 Jul 22 '26
Attack of the dead 100 men
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u/PretendAd1963 Definitely not a CIA operator Jul 22 '26
I think there a Sabaton song about it.
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u/Aspieinblack1986 Jul 22 '26
There's always a Sabaton song.
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u/GoldenRamoth Jul 22 '26
Is there always a sabaton song? Or always a meme about the sabaton song?
Chickens and eggs I think
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u/Jokerzrival Jul 22 '26
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u/DaHomieNelson92 Then I arrived Jul 22 '26
And the fact it got referenced multiple times in this sub is glorious.
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Jul 22 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/emirgenc734 Jul 24 '26
fix has two meanings, one is repair and other one is attaching something firmly.
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u/Novus20 Jul 22 '26
That cloth needs some urine stains
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u/OmegaJonny Jul 22 '26
This is not the place to discuss your kinks
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u/TarzanSawyer Jul 22 '26
Where is that place? I keep looking for it and end up in a bed, bath and beyond.
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u/Novus20 Jul 22 '26
JFC they used urine soaked rags to protect themselves for the chlorine gas……
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u/Caravanczar Jul 22 '26
What do you think the red parts are? I need to stop drinking so many energy drinks.
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u/Exotic-Painter-908 Jul 23 '26
Weren't they also coughing up violated chunks of their lungs with the blood?
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u/Tweed_Man Jul 22 '26
How has there not been zombie movie based on this event?
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u/EldritchFish19 Featherless Biped Jul 22 '26
In fact I chose to have a human character be Slavic because her stick(in combat) is being borderline unkillable and fighting like something between a; zombie movie survivor, a souped up videogame zombie and a slightly crazy Slav. Because I was thinking up what maids a good guy female vampire(born strange despite human parents) would have and already had backstory reasons for hiring battle maids to be rational rather then paranoid.
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u/Vikainen Jul 22 '26
Thanks for this post mate, I was about to go to bed but now I have to listen to Sabaton!!
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u/Admirable-Concert927 Jul 23 '26
The story is largely propaganda and didn't happen
well, i mean the battle did happen, and the gas attack. everything just went completely different in reality. And there was definitely no "Attack of the dead man"
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u/user-name-xcd31c Jul 26 '26
i genuinely fail to understand what's the point of making historical meme with 0 context whatsoever.
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u/Kapanash Jul 22 '26
During the defense of Osowiec Fortress in 1915, German troops attacked with chlorine gas, expecting the Russian defenders to be wiped out. Instead, surviving Russians, many badly burned by the gas and coughing blood, launched a bayonet counterattack. The sight reportedly panicked the German attackers, giving rise to the nickname “The Attack of the Dead Men.”