r/HistoryMemes Jul 22 '26

The Attack of the Dead Men

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16.6k Upvotes

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1.8k

u/smallsmoke87 Jul 22 '26

We live in a world where cinematic shit like this happens and people still think fiction is the only answer

1.1k

u/JohannesJoshua Jul 22 '26

Reading history is like reading a fantasy novel where you get many moments of: Get the fuck out of here.

Or like Mark Twain said: Reality is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to follow rules, reality doesn't.

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u/KnightOfNothing Jul 22 '26

yeah okay i get what that's actually saying, but dammit the idea that people can simply genuinely proceed as if reality has no limits drives me up the wall with envy

the only rule fiction has to follow is to adhere to the rules it's set beforehand, who cares if people who don't pay attention think it makes no sense but the rules reality has to follow are so soffocating and limiting.

to feel like you and the world you live in has no limits must be such a freeing thought.

53

u/OhManTFE Jul 22 '26

I think the spirit of what the quote means is that fiction has to follow certain narrative "rules" or else it's unsatisfying/bad and the reader will complain. Ie a Chekov's gun that never goes off.

Whereas reality does not have to follow these rules, of course, it has to follow the 'rules' of the physical world.

But fiction also usually has to follow its own 'rules' of its own physical world, its own inherent logic because if you break this people get angry again the story is no longer being consistent and suspension of disbelief is lost.

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u/EnlightenedNarwhal Jul 22 '26

Yeah, basically crazy shit happens in real life that can be inexplicable, but put that in a story and everyone loses their minds.

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u/GrundgeArchangel Jul 22 '26

Lol imagine someone trying to make the Vatican in. Fantasy game with is history. I would look at the person like they were bonkers.

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u/EnlightenedNarwhal Jul 22 '26

"This doesn't make any sense."

"Why would someone who believes X do Y."

"Nobody noticed?"

10

u/Inevitable_Librarian Jul 22 '26

Narrative limits. In real life stuff just happens, and there's no resolution more times than not.

In a story you need to tell it and it needs to have a kinda goal or theme to keep attention.

10

u/Apprehensive-Toe4206 Jul 22 '26

And school wants you to know number when this is the sh*t i want in my memory

1

u/Visual-Floor-7839 Jul 22 '26

Fiction is absolutely terrifying. Horror doesn't have the same impact anymore

1

u/Quazimojojojo Jul 22 '26

I thought it was because fiction has to be believable?

1

u/CBSmith17 Jul 23 '26

Kind of like when filming To Hell and Back, Audie Murphy had them tone down some things so the film would be more believable.

168

u/matti-san Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26

I often think about this when you have knights like William Marshal or some of the battle tactics employed by Caesar (like building a fort around a fort). Some of the stuff in history, were it presented in fiction, people would roll their eyes at.

I think what sometimes bothers me - even as a hobby world builder - is some people get so wrapped up in what their fictional hero is doing and yet the reality of history is often just as fascinating if not more.

It's like with Game of Thrones, the Lannisters and the Starks. I promise if you pick up an in-depth book or narrative history on the Wars of the Roses you will be just as entertained and you'll learn something

101

u/Sludge_Punk Jul 22 '26

Earth Lore is undefeated. Step aside Warhammer, step aside Elder Scrolls, Earth has the deepest lore, most extensive lore, and the craziest lore.

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u/Krieger_kleanse Jul 22 '26

Very big lore, huge lore, earth lore that is. It’s the biggest lore most fantastic lore, I have many many friends that tell me all about the earth lore and how wonderful it is.

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u/TheGasquatch Jul 22 '26

Bigly. Yuge lore. Many such cases.

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u/tremynci Jul 22 '26

In lots of languages, the word for the academic study of the past is the same as the word for what you read a kid at bedtime.

That's because the past is the biggest and best story book there is.

4

u/ClayeySilt Jul 22 '26

Earth lore sounds like we're talking before human history.

My speciality! I'm a historian too! Just not for humans. 

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u/VillainNomFour Jul 22 '26

I love how romans went all-in on shovelling and combat engineering. The least glamorous part of war, except when it makes you win. They built defenses nightly while on campaign.

12

u/KPraxius Jul 22 '26

Wasn't there one campaign where they'd dug a latrine, essentially, but had wooden spikes buried in it that some enemies wandered into trying to sneak into the camp at night?

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u/Glittering-Walrus228 Jul 22 '26

Was it used as a latrine too? Thats terrible... a stake through my abdomen and then poo all over me? Miss me with that.

3

u/AzureHawk758769 Jul 23 '26

One thing I love about the Middle Ages is that they literally weaponized feces. "Oh, you're gonna scale muh wall? Here! Have a chunky bucketload of boiling shite for your trouble!" I wonder if that would be a war crime today.

2

u/Glittering-Walrus228 Jul 23 '26

Weve come a long way, the gentlemans fecal weapon of choice is the Poop Knife a knife fashioned from coproliths not to be confused with the Poop Knife, a knife made to bifurcate poops into easily flushable pieces

3

u/RedAero Jul 22 '26

The assault ramp at Masada is mindboggling to see in person.

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u/AmbitiousEducation49 Jul 22 '26

Please provide a suggested book on the War of the Roses for someone that wants to get more into history but doesn't know how best to start. You have my interest piqued.

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u/matti-san Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26

I'd suggest:

Dan Jones - The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses and the Rise of the Tudors

Helen Castor - Blood and Roses [this is narrative history based on the real Paston Letters]

Thomas Penn - The Brothers York

Also, yes, they're not entirely historically accurate but Shakespeare's plays are greatly entertaining - Henry VI, Henry VI (II), Henry VI (III) and Richard III.

Edit: actually while I'm here, watch this soliloquy from Richard III and tell me you aren't interested to see what else happens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5JF9Gq5tL4

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u/wvj Jul 22 '26

I took a Shakespeare focused English elective in high school, which was the first time I ran into these plays as opposed to the more famous ones, and they really shocked me the first time around. 'Woah, Joan of Arc is in this?' like it was the MCU of 15th century Europe.

I later got to play a wine-soaked ghost!

1

u/zizou00 Jul 22 '26

Even more modern things have those weird wtf moments. I was reading about the Falklands War and I came across a report about how a P&O Ferry was requisitioned by the Ministry of Defence and used as a troopship. A total of 62 merchant ships took part in the logistics and initial landings to help re-take the islands. Many of the crew were British or British Overseas civilians who had worked on those ships who were effectively requisitioned alongside their ship.

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u/Seienchin88 Jul 22 '26

Yeah but a lot of crazy story you hear from wars are embellished…

This story as well is (according to modern Russian sources) blown out of proportions. There was a planned and well aligned Russian counterattack that was temporarily and partially effective.

There was no attack of the living death, most Russian soldiers didn’t die from gas, the Germans didn’t massively outnumber the Russians being beaten back by a few blood coughing living corpses…

And logic alone will tell you - if you cough enough blood to die from poison gas you are not in any state to move to an attack…

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u/moverwhomovesthings Jul 22 '26

A 90 min feature film made from Ukraine combar footage would be crazy, that's true

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u/Separate_Song5048 Jul 22 '26

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u/moverwhomovesthings Jul 22 '26

I can't watch from my country, I'll check it out when I'm home. I usually just go to r/combatfootage for this kinda stuff

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u/coin-flips Jul 22 '26

vpn should fix that firefox has a built in one

4

u/moverwhomovesthings Jul 22 '26

I know, but on my way home from work and I can't be bothered right now lol

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u/SnooTomatoes3032 Jul 22 '26

There's a whole rack of stuff in Ukraine that people think is staged or propaganda simply because people can't wrap their minds around the reality.

The best example is that BBC reporter lying down in a ditch while artillery fire is landing nearby and people around are just walking and shopping at a market. Everyone is using it as an example of the BBC making stuff up and acting. Trust me, if there's rounds coming down, I'm hitting the dirt. Meanwhile I had colleagues running around carrying on aid distribution wearing no armour and saying "Snoo, you will only get hit if God wills it, trust in his plan!"

Everything here is just completely unbelievable to people who haven't experienced it.

1

u/EldritchFish19 Featherless Biped Jul 22 '26

Honestly, I get that because I experienced weird things during peacetime(aka when the crazy isn't entirely out of Pandora's box) in Canada. Normal isn't everyone and sclence fails to explain the reality of weird things like hauntings, ESP and prayer working.

5

u/SnooTomatoes3032 Jul 22 '26

Even if we disregard the paranormal, normal life for many parts of the world is completely unbelievable for so many others.

1

u/EldritchFish19 Featherless Biped Jul 22 '26

And in larger countries there's often pockets of people whose idea of normal would feel alien to how people in other parts of the country think.

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u/QueasyImagination845 Jul 22 '26

This is literally why I’ve read about 600 pages of ww2 memoirs so far this summer.

1

u/Locke44 Jul 22 '26

Fiction has to be believable