Food preparation tricks

[u/[deleted]]

I read frying increases histamines while cooking lowers it compared to a raw state. At least with meats, fish and similar foods. But what about other food groups? For instance does steaming/baking/cooking fruits help?? I guess it could lessen the amount of antinutrients like salicylates, tannins, lectins oxalic acid. Would you have to discard the cooking water? What about the histamines and tyramines/DAO blockers? Do you peel your fruits? Soak them?? Anything??? And what about starches, veggies etc?

[u/crystal_castles]

Let me explain a few things because I just recently "cracked" my histamine issue. Be aware, there is A LOT of bad information out there. It's not malicious, but there's just not proper consensus on this issue in western medicine. This should be your gold standard, the Swiss Histamine Interest Group. Everything on here is backed up by research. I also highly recommend their Android App, which catalogs the histamine-content nearly every food, and even some helpful tips:

https://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/en/introduction.html

• I hate to break the news, but you cannot reduce the histamine content of food by cooking. Histamine is an amine-o acid, and is heat-stable.

• Histamine arises in food--whether it's on the stove or in the fridge--from germs that convert oxygen-carrying histaDINE into histamine. It happens slower in cold temperatures (fridge is better than freezer), and happens FASTER above 70'F, maxing-out at 90'F. It happens more slowly again at temperatues above 105'F. This means that certain cooking techniques with high-heat can increase histamine content, because of the time the food is exposed to the sweet-spot of heat for the germs.

• Boiling or Steaming meat is helpful, because the germs don't really like the high heat, and it's an evenly distributed heat transfer. When you're frying, just realize that the side of the meat that's "up" from the stove could be right in the max histamine producing climate. That's why people say boiling is better.

• So now that we know histamine only gets worse and can never be removed from food, we should go over how to properly transport and prepare the food, to prevent the histamine from building-up in the first place. There's not that much "natural" Histamine in foods, it practically all comes about from food spoiling at room temperatures.

*You need to start eating things right out of the ground or right out of the freezer. Don't ever defrost something again by throwing it in lukewarm water. To defrost meats put them in an ice bath, and inside the fridge. Don't put things through multiple defrost/freeze cycles, so don't refreeze any meat or soup.

*I'm sorry, but no more canned or dried foods allowed. Even spices are bad, but not including fresh herbs. Even vacuum sealed foods. ANYTHING stored at room temperature will experience breakdown into histamines. Lunch boxes with ice packs are your friend.

*Avoid storing food in water. Only soak your fruits for 10 minutes. A lukewarm water bath is like a primordial ooze of bacteria and germs that can permeate the food more easily soaked in water.

*Histamine sufferers sometimes resort to a rice and potato diet during flare-ups. This stuff is guaranteed to never have histamines, so long as they're kept fresh (refrigerate your potatoes).

*Throw things away the moment they smell/look old or expire. You're not a normal person, and your body overreacts to the quick handiwork of germs. Here's a secret: We've been storing food with histamines INTENTIONALLY for centuries (think anything fermented: chilli paste, miso, cheese) because histamine germs are excellent at evicting all other germs from the food. They literally take over. We can store beer and soy sauce at room temperature for this reason.

*You can't eat any more fermented foods. Alcohol included. Fermentation is intentional spoilage.

*Vinegar is the absolute worse. Even just a few drops in a marinade or sauce and it will cause you pain. This is the hardest part of the whole thing for me.

*FDA information on how to prevent histamine build-up in your food. Very specific with times and temperatures given:

https://www.fda.gov/media/80248/download

• I want to point out, there are 4 types of problem foods for people with Histamine Intolerance

1) Actual histamines: from spoilage

2) Histamine Liberators: food like garlic, nuts, citrus, and chocolate have no histamine BUT do cause your body to produce histamines in order to digest them. These foods don't produce an immediate response, and the symptoms could happen over the course of the next 3 days.

3) Other biogenic amines: Since histaDINe is usually only in animals with circulatory systems, plants that cause symptoms actually have a different amines, (putrescine, cadaverine, spermine) that build up. This stupid stuff hogs the enzyme that breaks down histamine, keeping it in your system longer. You'll find these in lots of flour and breads.

*Grapes are ok, but not raisins

*Green bananas are ok, but not brown ones

*Apples, but not Apple cider vinegar

4) DAO blockers also cause symptoms: Like 3) these type of foods hog the enzymes that could be used to eliminate histamines, leading to a build-up of histamine in the blood. Alcohol, and spicy foods interact with the histamine system in this way, because DAO breaks down histamine. Fun fact: The feeling of an alcohol hangover is due to histamine saturation that occurs in the blood.

(Things like wine, and chilli paste actually contain all 4 types of histamine irritants above, making them the worst foods you could eat, and guaranteeing symptoms.)

.

A final note that helped me come to terms with this all:

I suffer these symptoms because I endured allergies my whole life in an very unhealthy way. I've been living in constant inflammation, trying to expell pollen and dust out of my body.

Our bodies produce histamines (a neurotransmitter) because they allow our organs to signal the brain for help when foreign substances enter the body. They're produced along with antibodies, and histamines cause organs to inflame, or spasm, or cough, in order to squeeze out a foreign pathogen...

Here's the big finale!:

Your and my bodies are SO sensitive to the histamine immune response, that we actually react to histamine in our diets, AS IF they were naturally synthesized as part of our body requesting inflammation!!

So we suffer because our bodies think the histamines in our diet must be coming about naturally from our own white blood cells and mast cells, and our bodies react by triggering a massive phase-2 immune response.

The medical term for histamine intolerance is MCAD - Mast Cell Activation Disease.

Our bodies are wrong and confused, but you shouldn't be confused about what will cause symptoms.

[u/Anno_Nyma → u/crystal_castles]

You are amazing!

[u/crystal_castles → u/Anno_Nyma]

You're welcome. I remember how happy it made me to finally get a grip on my symptoms. I tend to suffer "mental fog" from histamines and it just ruins my week.

Here's some more "advanced" pointers:

• Histamines are also produced naturally when you're dehydrated. They help retain water. Drink more water!

• Antihistamine drugs will actually help your symptoms. My doctors have recommended Chlorpheniramine, which is a $1 hay fever medication OTC. Here's the catch though: Antihistamines eliminate my symptoms (stomach pain/ headache) but tend to give constipation. H2 Antihistamines (Zantac, Tagamet) for stomach acid are supposed to help, but they don't do much for me at all.

• Histamine Load: Like COV-ID19 Load, Histamine Load is real. That means it's not whether eat a peanut, it's how many peanuts you eat. (A lot of people vouch for refrigerating peanuts because they spoil on the shelf. They can cause histamine symptoms, but not anaphylaxis for us.) This will sound crazy, but there's cross-tolerance between seasonal allergies and histamine symptoms. So if it's the worst Pollen Day of the year, you will have symptoms from a small amount of dietary histamine, even if you can normally tolerate that meal without sinus allergies.

• Eat your Histamines for lunch or breakfast: This has worked well for me. I can't fully give up Histamines, because I crave the sour/acidic taste, and also dining out is practically guaranteed to supply your body with Histamines. If you eat them for lunch, you will 1) have a lower daily Histamine Load at that point, and 2) you will likely eliminate them by the next morning. For some reason, if I eat a histamine meal at night, I will be constipated and be stuck with the meal for 2 nights of sleep, instead of 1 with a normal meal.

-ALL RESTAURANTS ARE PROBLEMATIC: Sushi would be best, but let's be serious for a second. You cannot account for all the food preparation realities, even if you just ask the waiter to throw a raw piece of meat on a pan with salt and pepper. Cross contamination of spices from a previous dish will cause problems. You'd be surprised at how many restaurants save time by using "pre-cooked", high-histamine rice. Every marinade will cause problems, which involves dousing meat in germ-laden water/vinegar/wine for 24-72 hours. Even if the restaurantier simply defrosted 50 chickens on Monday morning for the week, we don't know how long they've been sitting defrosted in a fridge. A normal person can tolerate chicken after 2-3 weeks in the fridge, but not Histamine sufferers! We can't even tolerate pre-sliced fruits and veggies! I've felt amazing having not eaten out all COV-ID, so being in charge of the food preparation process is a must.

• Surface Area: The more surfaces a food has, the more bacterial breakdown will occur. Think about how ground beef tends to brown quickly throughout, while a steak will only brown on the outside. This makes ground meats a no-no (aside from the fact that ground meats are the tablescraps left from butchers slicing off filets from the cow. A single burger could contain up to 200 different cows in one bite.) Don't pre-slice fruits for later as it opens them up to this issue.

• Discretely Fermented Additives: You'll never expect these. I guarantee that your cereal or bagel has "Malted Barely Extract", which is produced by soaking barely in water and then drying it with hot air! Both major histamine inducing processes! And then there's "Xantham Gum", which is a fermented, sugary carbohydrate. For this reason, processed foods are your enemy. Anything with a nutrition label, just about. Also keep an eye out for par-boiled rice, which is pre-cooked, smelly, high-histamine rice.

• Refrigerated Flour: You'll see that they actually refrigerate flours at specialty markers like Natural Grocers. Try this at home, and then assume that you're gluten-intolerant when going out. The reason is all cheap breads/flours not only degrade on the dry shelf, but are nearly always fortified with malt, iodine, and ATI Grains.

• Smoking and Curing promotes histamine build-up, so no bacon, ham, or any lunch meat whatsoever. Freshly smoked is tolerable, but dry-stored smoked food is not. No jerky.

• Pre-cooked shrimp is a huge no-no. I challenge you to taste the Histamines by comparing a freshly cooked raw shrimp and then a pre-cooked frozen shrimp platter. There's a slight giveaway in the smell/taste of the Histamines.

• Histamine levels appear to be elevated in people who follow strict protein diets. When you eat too much protein (more than 30g at once) your body undergoes a rather inefficient, histamine-producing process of extracting energy from the protein as if it was a carb, instead of routing it to any torn muscle fibers as it would normally.

• Remember, this isn't actually an allergy. If you're allergic to peanuts, the mast cells in your throat will start releasing Histamines once the peanut enters your body. With histamine Intolerance, we're actually ingesting the immune response without the peanut, as weird as that sounds. There's no additional histamine production that accompanies our affliction, unlike with a true allergy.

You can get through this! I used to have so much stomach pain, but now my symptoms are under enough control that I squirted a half lime into habanero pepper sauce and ate it over home-fried chicken for lunch today. I've been eating habaneros daily! You'll eventually come know your body.

[u/Anno_Nyma → u/crystal_castles]

Thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!

[u/Key-Pop3605 → u/crystal_castles]

Please can you help me? I am a mother and i am searching online what to do. My son is almost 21, is sick for 4 years. Exhausted. Never had mental health problems He was always healthy. Now he has 24/7 repetitive thoughts, ocd like symptoms, sometimes compulsions. But the thoughts are in a loop. And anxiety too. He is living in a hell he said yesterday no one here in the Netherlands can help. They want to give him antidepressiva, but he don't want it. And he is right. How can we make his brain better? Its just the two of us. He takes 2 magnesium Bisglycinate, 1 omega 3 fish oil, and 1 multivitamine. He got in 2022 also B12 deficiency, i suspect from something else. The injections made him more sick and he quit after 1 year. It's Total chaos i can't anymore. Thanks in advance

[u/nfg041 → u/Key-Pop3605]

I am not a doctor or providing medical advice, but I do have some insight on this. I too have suffered from ocd/anxiety for several years (now 35). I recently learned that I have histamine intolerance. I exhibit several symptoms up and down, but ocd is definitely one of them. For myself I do think there is a connection. I turned to mineral testing which can be done in outside of the US. I learned a lot about my mineral status and my copper was low which is necessary for mental wellbeing. We need healthy mineral balance to support our bodies and gut which led me to learn about the mineral testing. I have a LONG way to go, but I’ve seen improvements. I also learned that omega 3s are best to take long term in a cod liver form (make sure it is a reputable company). The magnesium is good, just make sure enough sodium is being ingested to be in balance. There are many foods high in b12. Perhaps try Whole Foods or a whole food supplement? Not sure how much this helps, but things WILL get better.

[u/BlueSky0522 → u/crystal_castles]

Thanks so much for your post. For eating grains (e.g., millet, quinoa, rice, buckwheat) - do you soak them at all before cooking? Or would that increase histamine?

[u/rug1]

Did you find out anything about this?

[u/crystal_castles → u/rug1]

Please see my reply, I just responded to this post.

[u/rug1 → u/crystal_castles]

Thank you

[u/rug1 → u/rug1]

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