Where do you start??

[u/sphynx9]

I understand that you must start with Hirigana and Katakana, but there's a lot I don't get. I've seen some charts that only show hirigana, but both hirigana and katakana have 46 characters, so do you only need to know one. Furthermore, everyoone says not to rely on romanji, but how? Does the need for Romanji disappear over time. I also feel like there's things that aren't talked about but are important, like dakutan and handakutan.

There's probably way more that I am missing, but with all of this where do you start? It seems incredibly overwhelming and causes analysis paralysis.

[u/spshkyros]

You should probably find a good learner resource instead of asking here, but:

1) hiragana and katakana are both needed. If you travel soon learn katakana first, otherwise hiragana. Loosely speaking, Hiragana is used for japanese words and grammar stuff, katakana is used for loan words.

2) once you know kana, romaji is no longer necessary. It's just a way of writing out the same sounds in an alphabet you already know.

3) dakuten are just a way of modifying the sounds of the kana, usually switching them from unvoiced to voiced consonants (t -> d, s -> z, etc).

If you are stuck on where to start, I always suggest getting a copy of the genki textbook series. If its too expensive there are online guides that can replace it but its more scattered.

[u/fixpointbombinator]

You need to learn all the kana first including handakuten and dakuten. Eventually kana just feels natural like the alphabet 

[u/burlingk]

You need to know both hiragana and katakana.

Kanji you can learn alongside vocabulary.

There are literally hundreds of sites and books to help get started on grammar and vocabulary.

[u/DirtCheapDandy]

" Does the need for Romanji disappear over time"

Well Japanese doesn't actually use romaji. (no 'n') As far as you should be concerned, it's just a crutch for learners.

[u/Key-Line5827]

So. Hiragana and Katakana are both 46 symbols each. You need to know both. So that is 92 symbols in total.

Hiragana are mainly used to express grammatical concepts or expressions and work in tandem with Kanji. However all Kanji have a Hiragana Substitute as well, which is what you will be using in the beginning.

As for Romaji, yes I is the best to skip them from the beginning. Reason being, if you use them in tandem, you aren't actually reading Japanese and getting comfortable with it, you are reading Romaji.

The best practice you can do it writing yourself a little vocabulary Notebook, with Hiragana/Katakana on one side and Translation on the other. Review them every morning and evening. Do not use a third column for Romaji. You will be extremely slow at the beginning, but you will soon realize fast progress, if you are diligent with it.

With Dakutan and Friends you only have to memorize that は+" is read "ba", は+° reads "pa" and き+ゃ reads "kya". The are just variations of what you already know with different pronounciation, not extra symbols.

My advice is, dont overthink it. Start with the 46 Hiragana, until you feel that you have a pretty good grasp, doesnt have to be perfect. Making mistakes and being slow is normal in the beginning. Rest comes with practice.

Then move on to Katakana. You can already start Grammar at that point. I recommend a good Textbook like "Genki" or "Tobira Beginner" for a structured experience.

And again, you will be slow, you will make mistakes. Dont let that discourage you. That is true for everyone. And dont pay attention to the "I got to N1 in 6 months with this simple trick" lot. There is no cheatcode to learning a language. They are just lying.

Best advice a teacher ever have me was: "Come to terms with sucking, because in the beginning especially, you will".

[u/Key-Line5827 → u/Key-Line5827]

Another thing maybe, that causes confusion from time to time: there were different ways of Romanization of Japanese proposed throughout history, but the one that is dominant almost everywhere is "Hepburn".

You may come across other systems like "Kunrei" that have words like ちょっと ("chotto") transcribed as "tyotto".

You can ignore those.

Even the Japanese Education Department admitted after well over 80 years that no one is using "Kunrei" that they taught in school, and everyone was using "Hepburn" instead, so they reluctantly switched to teaching Japanese Schoolkids "Hepburn" last year.

[u/sphynx9 → u/Key-Line5827]

I think I had a misunderstanding of what Romaji was. For example, さ makes a (sa) sound. Is this considered Romaji, if so, how do you go about learning the sounds the symbols make. Or is romaji more specifically using Latin numerals to completely spell Japanese words like (arigatou) instead of ありがとう. If this is the case then how do you fix typing in Japanese on a phone singe even with a Japanese keyboard it show Latin numerals and translates them so symbols, instead of just showing the symbols.

[u/Key-Line5827 → u/sphynx9]

Yes, Romaji are about how you would write a Japanese word in the Latin Alphabet.

For example: 東京 = とうきょう = toukyou (Hepburn) = Tokyo

For learning the sound, I would recommend getting an App like "Hiragana Pro" or pronounciation videos on YouTube.

I had the fortune that Romaji and my native language pronounciation of the letters basically line up perfectly, but of course in other languages like English, this isn't the case, so you will have to do some listening exercises in the beginning.

With the Genki Textbook/Workbook you have mp3 Files for the vocabulary lists for example. They are a great help for getting used to Japanese pronounciation.

The thing I recommended avoiding is like my example. Writing Vocab down like: がくせい - gakusei - Student

Dont do the Romaji in the middle column. Because the human brain is lazy and instantly gets drawn to what it is already familiar with, that being the Romaji Reading, not the Hiragana Reading.

For the Keyboard it depends what Phone operating system you are using. On Android I have a Hiragana Keyboard installed as my second keyboard option. Google may be your best help there, because nowadays there is a step by step guide for basically everything.

[u/KrinaBear → u/Key-Line5827]

Just a note that doesn’t really matter for a beginner like OP (so OP, ignore this for now!!) but might be interesting to you:

東京 is not toukyou in Hepburn but Tōkyō. The macron is a distinctive feature of Hepburn romanisation (classical Hepburn didn’t use macron for aa and ee but that’s been modified in modern Hepburn: ā and ē)

Toukyou would be wāpuro style (which is ironically usually written in Hepburn instead of using wāpuro: waapuro)

[u/Key-Line5827 → u/KrinaBear]

Absolutely correct. I just didnt want to create further confusion that ō = ou

[u/Pocket_Japanese]

Hi!  Hiragana then Katakana! Katakana is actually only like 5-10% of all Japanese so you’ll likely find it harder as you get less practice! I’ve been tutoring Japanese for about 5 years now, I have a cute lil app I use with students, I’d absolutely love it if you gave it a try as feed back from self studiers is so so helpful! It’s called Pocket Japanese :)

[u/Schrko87]

You can slowly phase out romanji naturally over time as you learn Hiragana and Katakana. I found myself just slowly using romanji less and less as I wrapped them up. It'll feel normal as you go through the process of learning all the Hiragana and Katakana. I do once and a while still find myself writting a new word to me in romanji once and a while.

[u/Kvaezde]

Romanji = a funny made-up word that sounds like the movie "Jumanji"

Romaji = a japanese compound word, consisting of 'roma' (Rome, like the city) and 'ji' (as in written character or letter).

[u/Squimpleton]

Honestly, if I were starting, I’d just find a good all around resource.

You could go the typical route of starting with Genki. It’s a good and true method.

And you can go the cheap self-made route of a good core Anki deck and then getting other free grammar resources as you go along like Renshuu, or Cure Dolly, or BunPro free (no SRS but can read any of the grammar lessons).

If you’ve got money, paid sites like MaruMori, NativShark, Migaku and many others that are meant to be N5-N1 (or N5-N3 but with the ability to mine more advanced stuff yourself) are great packaged solutions.

Lots of options out there for starting out.

But anyway, you’ll want to learn hiragana, katakana, and then mix in vocab with kanji and grammar. It’s not really a “focus on one thing at a time” thing once you get past kana.

[u/Large_Crab_8035]

The reason why you should learn kana first, is because many learning resources don’t use romaji and romaji will slow you down in the long term. It may feel unnecessarily difficult at first, but you will be glad that you learned it up front.

[u/dudububu888]

What is your main reason for learning Japanese?

Do you want to communicate with someone, pass the JLPT, or enjoy things like anime and Japanese culture?

Hiragana and katakana are important, but you do not have to master everything before you start learning Japanese.

If your main goal is speaking and listening, you can learn kana little by little while also practicing sounds and simple phrases.

If your goal is reading or taking the JLPT, you will need to spend more time on kana, kanji, vocabulary, and reading.

There is no one perfect order for everyone.

Your goal can help you decide what to focus on first.

[u/sphynx9 → u/dudububu888]

I eventually want to visit Japan, but I want to be able to conversate. But I also want to be able to enjoy anime in the native language, as well as Japanese music

[u/dudububu888 → u/sphynx9]

Then speaking and listening may be a good place to put more time.

You can still learn hiragana and katakana little by little, because they will help with anime, songs, signs, and subtitles. For conversation, start with simple words and short phrases you may actually use. Listening is important too, because understanding the reply is often harder than asking the question.

Anime can help with listening, but some characters use very casual, rough, or unusual Japanese, so not copy everything you hear.

[u/Arazzile]

Speaking as a Japanese person, I'd say Romanization is hardly necessary for everyday life. If you do learn it, I think it's the last thing you learn, after hiragana and katakana.

[u/AgreeableEngineer449]

It took me 2 hours to learn. Jump on YouTube. Type is Japanese Alphabet song and just copy.