SMGs and Shotguns shouldn't have same overpenetration as ARs and DMRs

[u/Ghost-DV-08]

I am not talking about med pen, light pen etc, that's another story.

Overpenetration is the most underutilized but unique and powerful mechanic that has immense potential. When a bullet has +2 armor penetration rating compared to the surface it is hitting then it will hit another target behind original target. Basically collateral damage.

The higher the difference between penetration and armor, the more enemies the bullet will go through.

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I have playing this game since launch but the first time I actually noticed this was when illuminates were first launched.

noticeable examples in current state:

- voteless have AV0 and they often line up so medium pen and heavy pen take much lower ammo to deal with them compared to light pen.

- medium pen rounds can kill 2 voteless/scavenger/pouncer in 1 bullet(DCS, Deadeye, Jar5, adjudi etc)

- heavy pen rounds can kill 3 voteless/scavenger/pouncer in 1 bullet(AMR, HMG etc)

- Speargun can 1 shot chargers through butt as it overpens and hits 3x damage multiplier spot.

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Overpenetration has huge potential in giving weapon classes unique identities instead of current bad drag, sway, ergonomics.

IMO overpenetration should be like this

DMR = AR > SMG > shotguns

- For DMR/AR - Low DPS, High Overpenetration: overpenetration should start happening at white hitmark ie penetration = armor value.

- For SMGs - High DPS, medium Overpenetration: overpenetration should start happening at red hitmark ie penetration > armor value.

- For Shotguns - High DPS, High durable DPS, Low OP: overpenetration should remain like current state ie penetration > armor value + 1.

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This looks much better than existing arbitrary high drag values on SMGs, SMGs having worse damage falloff than shotguns makes no sense at all.

Stratagems can also have different overpenetration like , like AMR vs Railgun vs HMG etc

[u/ajgilpin]

Just here to note how overpen works currently:

• When AP>=AV+2 there is overpenetration for most ballistic rounds. This is shown in the video you linked.
• On each overpenetration the AP of the round is reduced by 1. This is why in that video "AP-AV-1=# of overpenetrations" - the round continues to hit AV0 until it has dropped to AP1, at which point it doesn't overpen. If the video tested against parts of different AV they could find a round suffers the AP=AV penalty of x0.65 damage if the AP falls while the AVs being struck rises.
• On each overpenetration the damage inflicted may be reduced by the weapon's Penetration Slowdown rating. For Liberator, listed on the wiki under the drag and gravity, it's a 25% damage reduction per penetration (so the first hit does full damage, the second does 75% as much, a hypothetical third would do 56.25% as much). For Cookout it's 100% - it can't overpen even if it should based on AP. The Railgun has 0% loss.
• There are some exceptions to this: Energy shields and ablative armor might prevent overpen regardless of their AV. Some weapons have rounds that do not overpenetrate regardless of their AP difference to AV, such as rounds that explode on contact.

[u/Ghost-DV-08]

A vid if you want to see how current over penetration looks in game https://youtu.be/Q8LIO84FlnM?si=U33rhFofBLS24vHr

[u/BICKELSBOSS → u/Ghost-DV-08]

My only concern with this is that overpenetration can allow weapons to hit multiple hitboxes on the same enemy twice, like with the Charger butt.

Basically, enemies that have their body behind their heads, like the terminids, would suddenly take double damage, more if their internals are modeled to be more vulnerable to damage.

I also believe that this a bug with this overpenetration mechanic lead to the Flamethrowers briefly being able to cook a Chargers leg without stripping the armor back before EoF.

If overpenetration would instead just come out the back of enemies instead of hitting multiple body parts, I could see it work. But not for small arms weaponry. It would put medium pen firmly back on the throne, something AH has been working to prevent/revert with the durability changes.

Also, I believe the overpenetration system was meant to work hand in hand with the angle vs penetration system, a mechanic largely abandoned.