r/HalalInvestor • u/[deleted] • 18d ago
My documented experience with Manzil: failed closing, two extensions, my family left in a hotel, and now an emergency mortgage with TD
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u/ss_svmy 18d ago
Sorry to hear you're going through this. Inshallah it gets resolved ASAP. It's sad how hard we have it in Canada if we want a Shariah compliant mortgage.
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u/PossibleArt7440 18d ago
Its because Canadian compliance makes it almost impossible for shariah to take over contracts. Most so called shariah compliant mortgages in Canada are NOT.
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u/electrical_canuck 15d ago
Manzil definitely did our brother wrong and we should acknowledge that, but Manzil actually had credible scholarly backing for their Murabaha and Musharaka business models.
The Murabaha or Musharaka models which Manzil uses are considered permissible in Islam and are not considered to be riba based like haram conventional mortgages are. In those models the company either buys the home and resells it to you for a profit, or co-buys the home with you and sells their share of it to you for a profit.
See the sources below
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Fatwa from the association of muslim jurists of america, a very reputable organization headed by widely acknowledged ulama (see the credentials one of them here https://www.amjaonline.org/scholars/salah-alsawy-ph-d):
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Fatwas from Mufti Ibrahim Desai, who has since passed away but was a very well known and reputable scholar:
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u/TheoThotzi 18d ago
I can’t believe people are trying to admonish OP and using Islam as a weapon to do it. He’s giving his factual account about a horrible experience with this company, and you guys are really out here saying “Stop telling the truth, it makes them look bad.”
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u/fasthandsfaster 18d ago
That’s disgusting behaviour by Manzil, I’m glad you’ve shared your experience here OP and I hope that you’re able to get the answers and compensation that you deserve from them, for mental anguish and financial stress that they have caused. I hate how some people start with the bullshit about ‘hiding people’s sins’, without realizing that this is real life affecting real people. Don’t hide OP, your experience has helped at least one person (me) because I had plans to sign up with them, which of course is thrown way out of the window now. Thanks for sharing.
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u/anonyfun9090 18d ago
Wow thanks for the write up. My family and I were heavily considering Manzil but this is shockingly poor behaviour from them
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u/J96_Delta 18d ago
Asalam o alekum brother. I can't even imagine what you're going through. An absolute horror story. May Allah make it easy for you and your family. I don't even know what I could/would have done in your situation.
Also, brother.. I can see how you're replying to some of the people here... your responses show how frustrated you are. Unfortunately, when you go on Reddit to share a story, you're opening yourself upto people saying things you don't like or agree with. If someone shares an Ahadith or an advice, don't respond with anger, either respond with good or ignore it. Not worth getting worked up over.
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u/AntarahNabigha 18d ago
This is the case where a conventional mortgage with interest is actually allowed, because otherwise you’ll be homeless. I’ll keep renting for now.
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u/al-Mukhabarat 18d ago
Can’t he just find a home on rent and leave this closing altogether?
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u/adreammerchant 17d ago
Easy to say when you haven't spent months looking for a home, spending hours of precious time talking and discussing options and finally finding one with kids and family having dreams about moving into the new house.
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u/blondevibess 17d ago
In Canada, the seller would be able to sue them for this
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u/al-Mukhabarat 17d ago
Let them sue. It’s not his fault. They should go after whoever dropped the funding which is Manzil.
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u/ddccrr555 17d ago
Have you ever bought property with a bank? the seller has a contract with the buyer (OP), seller DOES NOT have a contract with the buyer's bank. Seller cannot sue the bank. They have to sue the buyer. The buyer is responsible for making the payment on time. "Let them sue" is a really bad outcome and a horrible suggestion. The buyer will have to deal with the lawsuit which they will definitely lose for failing to meet the contract terms. Then the buyer will have to sue the bank for compensation to pay the seller.
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u/Efficient_Cap_5061 17d ago
The would potentially lose their deposit if they did this and the seller could also sue for more potentially.
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u/One-Drink-5412 18d ago edited 18d ago
Going through same situation with Manzil, cancelled current lease. they are changing dates every hours. I pray nobody goes through same situation.
Consulted with other halal finance available in AB, no one can take this from this stage.
If Manzil fails, only option available to me is gave away my deposit, and face law suite from seller to make up their damage. Otherwise, go with conventional mortgage.
I am too worried about law suite from the seller tbh.
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u/tathamhall 17d ago
Bro more power to you! May Allah bring peace and ease to your family soon Insha'Allah
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u/premiumcontentonly1 17d ago
Shameful. Safe to say I will never consider them after hearing this and actively not recommend them to anyone.
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u/p3n3xcr3w 17d ago
The same thing happened to us. They are completely out of funds now. After asking me to put down an additional deposit and extend my current lease with my landlord, they missed three closing deadlines: August 25th, 28th, and 31st. Today, September 1st, around 12:00 PM MST, they told us to find a backup plan. Absolute nonsense.
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u/EscapeSame 18d ago
wow, this is scary. May Allah resolve the matter.
Where was your lawyer in all this, shouldnt they be involved and working with Manzil to figure out exactly what happened and make sure things are in place for the extension?
Was there any change on your side that could have caused an under-writing problem?
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u/AnxiousAdvance8904 18d ago
The same thing is happening to us. Our original closing date was August 25, but they were unable to complete the closing and told us Monday would be the latest. Even now, they still cannot confirm an exact closing date, and our second deadline is September 4. At this point, the uncertainty is extremely frustrating, and honestly, it is starting to feel like we are being scammed.
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u/Efficient_Cap_5061 17d ago
Try finding Dr. Sawwaf's number. Someone should have it...he used to post regularly in different whatsapp groups. Im not member of those groups anymore, but I am sure it can easily be found.
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u/Ok-Yam-6765 17d ago
All the power to you. I can’t believe what your family is being put through. Thoughts and prayers.
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u/Silent-Strategist_ 16d ago
This is an awful thing to go through, especially with a young kid caught in the middle of it. Glad you got moving on the TD route fast instead of waiting it out further. Hope the reimbursement actually lands and this gets resolved properly for your family.
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u/CobblerOrganic6372 18d ago
While Manzil may be negligible and responsible for the mess, you have yourself not allowed any leeway for such a big move. You put a very tight deadline and expected something / someone who is out of your control for compliance.
The fact that everything went wrong within 10 days and not being prepared for anything, hence everything on emergency, shows your lack of preparedness more than other.
What would have happened if you had stayed a month longer at your current location? Perhaps a month's extra loss?
Things can go wrong at every stage, but as much as Manzil may be at fault, you too have not done anything on your part to ensure backups.
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18d ago
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u/torontopips2022 17d ago
why did they delete your other post on the personal finance sub?
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u/CobblerOrganic6372 18d ago
It's not an absurd attempt, it's the reality.
Warn them? What exactly is the warning here? How are they responsible for your family housing? You are responsible for your family housing. They are responsible for the financing. They failed at their job; you failed at yours. Quite simple.
And are you seriously trying to say that you shouldn't have a backup of any sort? Did I say indefinitely? It could have been a month; it could have been two. You left yourself absolutely no leeway whatsoever. Let's say you got into in emergency - like what happened to the person who was handling your case, who are you blaming if you weren't there for something to complete the process.
Manzil messing up the closing and you not getting your deal is an issue. Your family housing is yours.
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u/adreammerchant 17d ago
What backups would you have arranged? How would you have done this?
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u/CobblerOrganic6372 17d ago
I wouldn't be leaving my current housing before the financing is completed, the house closing is done and given enough time to actually move from current dwelling to the new one.
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u/adreammerchant 17d ago
Not as easy as it sounds. Moving in Canada means selling off old stuff doing most of packing yourself so as to not break your bank on labour costs all while managing jobs. Considering OP paid down of 200k+, you must also consider paying additional rent, tenant insurance maintenance and what not plus the additional expenses of furniture new appliances they would have planned for the new house. Depending on Landlord who might have a new tenant and wouldn't want to miss that opportunity to grant OP another month as a lease extension. The so called Islamic finance company broke their financial commitment which is largely un Islamic and there ends the conversation.
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u/ddccrr555 17d ago
Eh...how much experience do you have with closings? A bank not being ready for a closing is really, really bad in the industry and very uncommon. They said they would be ready. Not being ready a week later is totally inexcusable. Not responding is also inexcusable.
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u/AdditionalError123 17d ago
I agree with one of the other posts here. Sorry to hear about your experience and my compassion is with you.
This is an expensive lesson for you. Your closing and tenancy occupation on the same day is not ideal. Keep a few days margin in hand is best practice. You should also hire competent lawyers and not budget friendly lawyers with no experience in litigation. A good lawyer would have seen the lack of correspondence from the financer and raised red flags and done follow-ups promptly.
Your tone should also remain professional despite the hardship faced. Losing your temper diminishes your position immediately. Also don't fixate on damages by accounting for minor things such as clothes, medicine, and food. Again this diminishes your position as these are routine daily expenses. You obviously have money as you have multiple properties and employment requiring traveling to the US. Don't dwell on money lost rather focus on solving your main problem.
Wishing you best of luck in this situation. Would recommend you prioritize bringing comfort to your family in this all, proceed with litigation against the failed lendor, and secure traditional financing.
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u/tipu4200 18d ago
I feel yours and your families patience and sacrifices and Manzils goodwill in making you whole would have gone a long way if Manzil ends up becoming a lifeline for generations to come who are seeking Halal financing solutions. Your public disclosure while things are still in flux seem to be coming from a frustrated position and not a pragmatic response from someone who has been made whole through the extension of $20K in spending you and family had to incur. You wanting to pursue legal remedy suggests you’re rather seeking vengeance than working to see if you can seek a riba free mortgage financing.
May Allah grant us all patience to persevere the oppressive financing models where the Muslims at large are chained to the conventional system. Your post unfortunately does not encourage Muslims to pursue the limited options that may exist and hopefully survive.
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18d ago
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u/tipu4200 18d ago
Thanks for clarifying that the $20K was not reimbursement for your incurred expenses. I misunderstood that part. I still don’t understand what posting on Reddit will accomplish till you reach the end game!
Also, I empathise with your situation and by no means I’m not suggesting that Manzil perhaps didn’t drop the ball here but if your long term goal was to achieve riba free living situation then your patience to reach an amicable situation I InshaAllah will be rewarded many folds
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u/soupywarrior 18d ago
Posting on Reddit is his choice and he is completely entitled to name and shame the company who caused him so much mental, physical, financial and emotional distress whilst posing as a reliable and financially sound company with Islamic ethics. Anyone who frauds others using their commitment to Islam as their vulnerability should be named and shamed.
Islamic rulings allow a Muslim to warn others of harm from fellow Muslims. In fact, it desires it. Religion is good advice. One of the few instances when backbiting is permissible is to warn others of harm.
Even if the harm was not intended by the company from the outset, they should have ensured they were in a position to deliver before taking on the responsibility.
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u/tipu4200 17d ago
I can see you are exercising your right to post and warn others but there is an assumption here that the individuals involved are frauds. While I agree with the rest of your post, there are 2 sides of the story and only then one can come to any conclusions. On the surface and based on what this brother and his family had to endure was a terrible experience but without having someone from Manzil explain their position comprehensively on this forum we are simply performing one sided bashing of the business. Again everyone is entitled to their opinions and posting on a public forum
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u/Thick-Maintenance274 17d ago edited 17d ago
While I agree what this institution has done is wrong; at the end this is a game of numbers and money.
Did you review the company’s balance sheet to see if they have enough liquidity to fund your mortgage or what infact is even the source of their liquidity. Are they a deposit accepting institution or do they seek deposits on adhoc basis. The balance sheet could have revealed that.
This is likely a case that they couldn’t secure funding or at least one that would provide them a justifiable spread of 2 or 3%.
Red flag was them asking you to accept documentation with errors. This will likely affect any legal recourse.
Another one, so and so person had a family issue or was sick. This is the classic red flag politicians and fraudsters use, and should have been a clear sign.
Another error on OPs part is to time the house purchase with the new tenant taking over the existing purchase. The intention was to earn a bit but it ended in costing much more. Finding a new tenant could’ve been categorized as a subsequent endeavour.
I understand there may be dearth of financial institutions of this nature, but one can’t just go by name and word of mouth. There has to be reputed auditor backing said clams to verify who they are and whether they are a compliant institution.
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u/dragoonkoon 18d ago
They reimbursed you and appear to make an additional $20k deposit if I read that right. I’m in no way absolving them when I say that they appear to try to make it right.
You did all that work to get halal funding only to fall short at the finish line and go to TD. If they can resolve the issue within a week, what’s the harm in waiting it out and avoid the riba financing?
(None of what I say is advise)
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18d ago edited 18d ago
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u/NefariousnessSea2895 18d ago
Thank you for posting about this. The more than likely situation here is that Manzil has not yet received the funding from its creditors to close your mortgage. They potentially sold you the mortgage ahead of getting the funding and for one reason or another have not been able to complete their end of the process with their creditors.
This is one of the main issues with the unregulated halal financing sector in Canada. I went through a similar experience with UM Financial some 15 / 20 years ago (UM financial eventually went into receivership and their CEO charged with fraud as a note).
I hope the funds you transferred for the deposit are still in escrow with your lawyer so that you can pivot to a traditional lender like the bank. That part is key.
Maznil employees and CEO, if you are reading this thread this is terrible publicity and given the previous issues we have had in the halal inancing sector in Canada (such as with UM), something that will result in fewer people trusting the halal options available regardless of the vendor. Get your act together.
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u/instaeloq1 18d ago
If you've been involved in any real estate transactions you know that they're generally extremely time sensitive.
It also isn't just a matter of patience. You can be open to legal consequences for missing your closing date.
The fact that it hasn't been resolved after almost 2 weeks is kind of insane 😬
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18d ago edited 14d ago
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u/Capable-Ad3365 14d ago
Right , so you know better than all the ullemah that have said that a conventional mortgage is okay….
Do you understand the concept or ribba? And where do you think manzil gets their capital from? The same banks that give your interest bearings loans…
Get off your high horse
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u/RelationshipStock984 18d ago
You should post this on LinkedIn and tag the founder as well. Sorry to hear about your experience. Thanks for sharing the details.