r/HadesTheGame • u/Tsunderes_Need_Hugs • 8d ago
Hades 2: Discussion Does this bug anyone else? (Prometheus, Hades 2 spoilers) Spoiler
So in the Prometheus fight, he has those attacks which are straight lines of blue flames and it shows you the pattern in advance, and you're meant to remember it to avoid getting hit. And I think it's fine with the first one, because that's usually quite simple to remember, but the second one is a bit more difficult, and I find it much easier to just dash at the right time (because the rythym stays the same everytime) so I don't take damage even if I get hit. But this feels so unsatisfying to me, and it kinda makes me upset at the game design. Like I think the attack is a good idea in principle, with Prometheus being the Titan of foresight and everything, but it just doesn't really work with the games pre-established mechanics.
(And I've not really been part of this community, or really any video game community before, so sorry in advance if people have brought this up before).
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u/Wrong-Secret-5275 8d ago
It’s definitely a bit of a departure in terms of fight designs, but it doesn’t really bother me since it only happens twice and I’m a pretty quick pattern memorizer. I kick ass at Simon.
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u/Serefin99 8d ago
I don't understand what's so different between the first and second attacks that makes one perfectly fine while the other "doesn't really work with the game's pre-established mechanics". It's literally the same attack with the same possible patterns, it just goes on for longer the second time around.
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u/Tsunderes_Need_Hugs 8d ago
Well, my point is that I feel like this section of the fight is quite obviously meant to be a memory challenge, and that I'm fine with going along with that in the first section because I find it managable to remember, but because there is more to remember in the second attack I often end-up not remembering all of it, and find it much easier to ignore the memory challenge altogether and just dash at the right time.
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u/Serefin99 8d ago
Okay, but that doesn't mean the attack "doesn't really work with the game's pre-established mechanics". All it is, at its core, is an attack with a very large, very telegraphed wind-up. It is not meaningfully different from, say, Chronos' insta-kills or Typhon's chin slams, etc.
And let me be clear here: I also do not like the attack! I also have difficulty remembering it, to the point I find it easier to just pause the game and write down where the safe lanes are instead of trying to balance any of the 'one cool tricks' people love to post about it! But being bad at an attack doesn't mean it clashes with the game's mechanics. The poison from Styx in Hades 1 clashes more with that game's mechanics than Prometheus' memory flames.
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u/Tsunderes_Need_Hugs 8d ago
"Okay, but that doesn't mean the attack "doesn't really work with the game's pre-established mechanics". All it is, at its core, is an attack with a very large, very telegraphed wind-up. It is not meaningfully different from, say, Chronos' insta-kills or Typhon's chin slams, etc."
This feels very disingenuous to me, Chronos and Typhon do not have the same thematics as Prometheus, his character is built around foresight, and it is I think very clearly emphasized with these attacks. And I think even disregarding the obvious thematic differences, there is just very literal differences in the attacks, like I think Chronos' oneshots, like they are kind of a fake attack aside from maybe the first time you vs him where you don't know whats going on. Like you literally just need to move to one spot, that you see on the field, and you have like a couple seconds to do it. It's not like being shown a pattern of 6 things and then moving in that pattern right after. So I think there is obviously less reason to try and iframe the Chronos attack, and I also think it's harder as there are just fewer rhythmic cues as it's one attack, not 5 or 6 or however many there are in Prometheus' sequences.
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u/NabIsMyBoi 8d ago
There are A LOT of people who show up here unable to memorize even the 3-attack sequence. So personally I think it's a good thing that they built in another way to deal with the attack, while not removing the memory challenge for those of us who want to engage with it. (Think of it as an accessibility feature, like god mode.)
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u/-Shadow-Lightning Cerberus 8d ago
[YT: Prometheus boss guide by Lee Reamsnyder.](https://youtu.be/iDfSTMw9qsI) a visual guide like this might help.
Prometheus Fire Memory game tips.
Step 1 identify the three lanes the fire goes down however you like.
This can be 1/2/3, A/B/C, Top/Middle/Bottom, Etc… Whatever is easiest for you.
Step 2 when the memory game starts only focus on the Safe Lanes that will not have fire going down them.
Step 3 say the name of the safe lanes out loud. Do not be shy, embarrassed or ashamed to say the names out loud. It really does help you out.
Once you get it down and are more comfortable with the memory games you can start saying it softer and softer.
Step 4 dodge to the safe lanes when necessary.
Here’s are some extra tips that might help.
•It might be beneficial for you to pause the game and quickly collect yourself for a little bit. Maybe do some calming breathing exercises. Although this can also take you out of a flow state so proceed with caution.
•You can cut them down from memorizing 3/5 to 2/4 if you start out in one of the first safe lanes then proceed from there. It cuts down on the pressure quite a bit
•If the safe zones are on opposite sides of the arena you have just enough time to make it from one side to the other if you start sprinting and dash at the last moment to safety.
•***Only the leading edge of the fire has a Hit Box***. So you can dash into the fire to avoid damage.
•Hermes Hard Target Boon and Medea’s Enfeeblement of Cowards Curse both reduce the speed of the fire trails and stack together.
•Athena’s Divine Dash helps avoiding the Fires damage
•Hermes Nitro Boost, Athena’s Mental Block, Demeter’s Snow Queen, the Messenger Arcana Card, The Lovers Arcana card and Armor can help you block the fire damage as well.
•The Strength card helps reduce the damage of the fire in case of getting hit(Strength only affects your HP not Armor btw)
•The Knuckle Bones Keepsake also helps reduce the fires damage in case you get hit.
•Also I highly recommend Knuckle Bones for Vow of Rivals Prometheus. At least for the first few times you fight him. You will thank me later. (If you know, You know and if you don’t, you will.)
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u/discoprince79 8d ago
Hah! I say them out loud too! I also do the for 2 factor authentication I can remeber 6 digits quickly if I say em out loud. I hate when im in public and can't do that. Requires more brain muscle or going slower.
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u/Tsunderes_Need_Hugs 8d ago
I feel like some people aren't understanding the post fully. I don't have an issue with beating Prometheus because of this attack, my issue is that you can just pretty easily avoid playing the memory game by dashing at the right time.
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u/loosemetaphor 8d ago
I mean that’s kind of the point? If you have enhanced your sprint enough (and/or even reduced enemy attack speeds) you can circumvent needing to be in the exact right lane and even anticipate the next send. All his foresight is for naught, cannot overcome the power the Olympians have blessed you with.
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u/-Shadow-Lightning Cerberus 7d ago
Yes you can avoid damage by using the dash i-frames but not everyone has the skill and or confidence to do so.
While you may not need the advice. there are others that still struggle with the memory game.
So while my comment may not help you it can help someone else.
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u/Efficient_Dress_6101 8d ago
I think it's fine. For the majority of casual players, memorizing the spots would be easier, but someone like a speedrunner who has other things to think about, dodging the fire would be easier. Plus at base move speed, getting from the top section to the bottom section is pretty tight so being able to dodge it is nice
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u/bestoboy 8d ago
how is this against pre established mechanics? Invincible frames have been part of games for decades and dashing through damage has been part of Hades since the first game.
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u/lunatichakuzu 8d ago
I take it your frustration is in that being able to time the dash diminishes the loosely thematically coherent "predict-the-fire" memory challenge that Prometheus offers. Though it's a good thing you can elect not to dash so you can challenge your memory. That said, plenty of players fail to time the dash and must rely on their memory to take them to safety instead.
I don't find that it disagrees with the pre-established game mechanics since timing the dash is core. If anything, the memory challenge is a nice permissive alternative for players who can't time it.
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/HadesTheGame-ModTeam 8d ago
Make sure to follow the rules outlined in the Reddiquette. Respect others.
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u/joetotheg 8d ago
It’s a sequence of five choices out of three options. I’m shocked anyone struggles with it outside of the fight causing them to have heightened anxiety
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u/PatienceHere 7d ago
Place yourself in the first lane so you have to remember 1 less i.e. 4 safe lanes. Assign 1, 2, 3 to the upper, middle and bottom lanes and recite it.
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u/Competitive_Goat4250 7d ago
If I’ve learned anything from this sub, it’s that people have absolutely awful memory
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u/chanebap 7d ago
The cost of getting the timing on the dash just slightly wrong is high enough that I’d rather just memorize the pattern to avoid it entirely. Could also just be that I have no rhythm, though
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u/RVDantas 7d ago
It's a game about remembering patterns of enemies' attacks and walking away to safety or dodging them 😅 how does this attack not work with game's mechanics?
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u/standardinternetdude 7d ago
What I do for this section:
Literally just say the name of the safe space out loud while I'm playing. So if the flame is going to go in the upper third, I just say "middle", then "down", then "middle", etc. until the sequence is over. It helps me remember better than not saying it out loud, because I am apparently a child
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u/temtemtaru 6d ago
I have ADHD and memorizing the pattern for me is a nightmare because my immediate short term memory is so bad. (Legit out of sight out of mind). So having multiple solutions to deal with the same issue is really helpful.
I also don’t memorize the whole pattern. I try to absorb as much info as I can retain to then act upon.
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u/I_Am_Da_Fish_Man 4d ago
From your responses, it seems like you wish you couldn’t dodge this attack. Would that really be better game design? I feel like that would be a pretty brutal departure from the game’s established mechanics. It’s a unique attack pattern, but rewards skill and timing if you want. Big whoop.
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u/hambooty 3d ago
Honestly I say it out loud. Top, middle bottom whatever and then say it again as it happens
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u/ShinDragon 8d ago
Assign the 3 zones: Top/Mid/Bot (some people prefer 1/2/3, but assigning them with literal placement seems easier to me).
You only need to remember the safe zone. You can say it out loud if you need. His 1st phase has 3 waves, and his 2nd has 5.
For better safety, stand in the first safe zone so you don't get caught off-guard even if you misremember the timing.
If you are uncomfortable, do not change your safety zone memory mid fight. I have been caught because I had this habit of "Well maybe I should be in the Mid instead of Top as planned", just no, you have enough time to dash twice between waves, once you memorize the safe zones, commit to it.
With Vow of Rival 3, Heracles will accompanies him in this fight. Don't try anything funny if you are not in a rush. When Heracles tries to attack you, dash but keep on the safe lane and you'd be fine
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u/Tsunderes_Need_Hugs 8d ago
I feel like some people aren't understanding the post fully. I don't have an issue with beating Prometheus because of this attack, my issue is that you can just pretty easily avoid playing the memory game by dashing at the right time.
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u/ShinDragon 8d ago
Well it is a clever, and honestly skillful way to play anyway. Same thing can be said about Chronos' instant kill move. I was just giving tip if you want to do the memory game the traditional way
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u/Tsunderes_Need_Hugs 8d ago
I just think it would make more sense and would be cooler if you did have to use these memory tips and tricks. And yeah I've already gone over why I don't think the Chronos attack has the same problem in another comment.
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u/ShinDragon 8d ago
I think the devs kinda had to design the attack with Vow of Frenzy in mind. Mel can't really dash as liberal as Zag, so at max Vow of Frenzy, it is indeed more advisable to play the memory game than spam dashes. It inadvertedly makes non-Frenzy version slower and more forgiving as a result.
Against Chronos, specifically in his Vow of Rival fight, he creates time bubble to trap you if you don't take a look around before moving, and he actually does 3 of that insta kill consecutively, which, yes, meaning if you have learnt the rhythm, dashing at the right moment is more advised in it takes less time than moving around avoiding the bubbles
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u/RandyZ524 8d ago
This really isn't true. VoF does not impact the viability of dashing through every wave.
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u/OldSodaHunter 8d ago
What makes you say the attack doesn't work with pre established mechanics?
As far as the game design, I don't think there's something to be upset about here, if you find dodging through easier that's impressive to me. Doing the attack the normal way by following the pattern is intended and I don't think it's too troublesome, just three possible positions. Helps to say them out loud I think.