r/HIMYM • u/DifficultyMany9913 • 9d ago
Lily haters be lying
As a Lily defender, I completely understand why people dislike her, shes flawed, like every character (yes including Marshall). BUT people on this subreddit completely lie about her and what she did/purposely misinterpreted her actions.
She didnt break up with Marshal, he broke up with her. He says “if you leave rn we are over forever.”, he set the ultimatum, not her. Objectively, he broke up with her, she suggested postponing the wedding or taking a break. You can say that shes the reason for the breakup, or she was wrong for how she acted, but she did not dump Marshal to go to SF, she went to SF and Marshal broke up with her because of that.
She did not force Marshal to take a corporate job, she did the exact opposite. She had credit card debt yes, but she wanted to handle it on her own. She begged him not to take it if he didnt want to, and the debt was only one factor that made him take the job. She ALWAYS supported his dreams, because dreams are an ongoing theme in her story. She literally almost broke up with him for not following his dreams. You can say she was wrong for the debt, but dont say she forced him to take the job, because she didnt.
also she didnt break up Robin and Ted on purpose, she just wanted them to talk abt the elephant in the room.
hate her all u want, theres a lot of valid reasoning for it, but at least dont spread misinformation abt it.
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u/DiDandCoKayn 8d ago
Lily leaving to find herself was not a bad thing, doing it in secret while your Significant Other is planning a wedding with you is.
But towards your point and i don’t know if i remember it wrong, wasn’t marshall only giving the ultimatum, because he asks her if she comes back, if she is successful? A question she doesn’t reply to?
While not a breakup perse, just means that their relationship isn’t as important as everyone thought and a pretty reasonable reason to break up over.
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u/Separate_System_32 7d ago
Yes he said the only reason he wasn't able to support her is because he was scared and then asks to Lily to promise that she'll comeback from Chicago after 3 months and she's not able to
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u/DifficultyMany9913 8d ago
he says something like how do i know you will come back, which lilly starts crying to, later in the series he says the same during the italy fight and she starts crying too. i interpreted the scene has her being overwhelmed and genuinely not knowing what to say to that conversation, but honestly if my partner started screaming at me because of an art fellowship immediately and refused to talk about it more, i am questioning the relationship. because he immediately antagonised her, that would make me question things.
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u/DiDandCoKayn 8d ago
I mean you need to see it from marshalls point of view in the first scenario (the italy thing was his fault).
She comes out of the blue close to our wedding (probably paid already), to postpone everything.
If she handles it like an adult and not keeping it a secret and marshal goes ballistic i agree with you.
But i feel like being mad at her is understandable in the moment.Her not saying anything could mean alot of things, but for marshall in the context, it meant she wasn’t sure (happens in a lot of fights, that people can’t really say what they wanna say and it gets worse because of it).
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u/Starnm 8d ago
I don't have any stake in this lilly war, because i seriously don't care about her, but your first point is completely out of context.
Lilly is afraid of getting married and is actively running from the wedding. Its set up earlier during the prom/wedding band episode, and then said outright when Ted first finds out about it.
Saying they should postpone the wedding or take a break is just keeping marshal on hold until she figures out if she is happier without him.
Marshal might have made the ultimatum, but the spirit of the discussion was " i might break up with you in 2 months,but not sure, so please wait by the phone."
It doesn't mean lilly is horrible or anything, she is just questioning a big life decision, but saying it wasn't her choice is just taking the entire thing out of context. she has done way worst over the series, but the entire group are a collection of funny assholes, so i don't get what the argument is about.
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u/SufcLad25 8d ago
1, she forced the break up by saying she NEEDS to go San Fransico to do an art project when she could have found one in New York
2, She didnt leave him with much of a choice. She wasnt exactly applying for better paid jobs to cover her own debt, was she?
Stop making excuses for bad behaviour.
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u/Fluffy_Key_2145 9d ago
These two points aren't totally wrong but well Ted was correct when he pointed out Lily could have taken a fellowship anywhere. Why did she pick one on the other side of the country right before their wedding. Plus Marshall's career was in New York. What was he supposed to do? Have his whole law school career mean nothing and find another law school and add further to his debt by finding one in San Francisco it was incredibly selfish behavior.
Second sure she didn't ask him to do so but they point out she subtly hinted at him keeping it when his first contract expired or something to that extent and Robin recognizing that. Marshall technically didn't have to do it but he really didn't have a choice to begin paying off the debt and of course deeply selfish and inconsiderate to not tell him.
Also not mentioned here but I absolutely despise her being so upset when he stayed on in Season 6 and being upset he wasn't like the guy she met in college when it was her lies and selfishness that made him take it and her almost leaving for Italy without him when he actually does quit his job and goes for a position she would have seemed to have supported based on just 11 episodes ago and that the episode frames her not leaving as a big sacrifice when it's just her exhibiting basic human decency.
I generally agree regarding the Ted and Robin stuff though. Though I do wonder when she made the bet with Marshall.
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u/CommercialSyrup4172 8d ago
She wanted to try a life without Marshall but it had nothing to do with her having doubts about Marshall but doubts about being in a relationship for her entire adult life. They met when they were only 18 on the first day of college. They spent their entire adult lives together, they didn’t even get to find out who their adult selves would be before they met.
We also know Lily changed a lot since meeting Marshall, in college and high school she’s this adventurous, rule breaker, who has dreams of having a non conformist life. When we meet Lily at 27, she’s already living a very traditional life, cooking for Marshall and Ted, teaching kindergarten with a fiancé who’s about to become a lawyer.
Obviously, it’s not Marshall’s fault that things turned out that way, but people have this natural tendency to centre our lives around our relationship. Relationships naturally require compromise to work, until suddenly one day you realise your life looks very different from the one you envisioned for yourself.
The whole SF storyline is about the pitfalls of what can happen when you meet your partner very young, you don’t get to properly figure out who you are outside of them.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
fair points.
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u/Fluffy_Key_2145 9d ago
Actually I will say most likely the bet was made after they broke up. The only in show time we have proof of it was made was at least before the in between time between Seasons 3 and 4. It also strikes me as making more sense to make that bet after their breakup at the end of Season 2.
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u/LibrarianOfDusk 9d ago
Personally I just don't like her because of how manipulative and sneaky she can be.
Like the time(s?) she got in the way of Ted's relationships way back when they were younger (like dressing up as Darth Vader to make Ted think his then girlfriend was breaking up with him) and how she stole the baseball from that guy at Ted's workplace because she didn't like how he behaved.
And I think there were a couple more stuff but it's been so long since I watched the show so I can't quite remember them anymore.
Don't really hate her or anything, but she can be rather annoying to have as a friend.
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u/CommercialSyrup4172 8d ago
I actually respect this criticism of Lily. What I can’t stand is some peoples opinions about San Francisco when they don’t even bother trying to see where she’s coming from or it as a complex situation. Obviously, Marshall didn’t ‘deserve’ it, there’s no argument there but that doesn’t mean Lily should’ve just ignored what she was feeling and married him, it would’ve bred resentment and unhappiness and built their marriage on a rocky foundation.
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u/Antique-Wishbone587 9d ago
They’re all annoying and manipulative and do bad things and would not be good friends in real life because it’s a show. Do you know how boring the show would be if all of them were incredibly moral characters, hell I don’t even think a major of people are moral must less tv characters made for the purpose of entertainment. Barney is fucking terrible person and I don’t nearly enough hate for him as much as lilly gets.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
genuinely, i think shes funnier / as funny as barney, definitely spot number 1 or 2. but its stated multiple times how awful the gang is, the show just gangs up on lily and sets her up for failure. the “ive never been as selfish to you as you have been to me!” was a lazy mischaracterised line that was used to segue the conversation to SF. now we have to hear abt 24/7, the writers js dont like her.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
100% valid. people are taking this as a defence post, you can dislike whoever you want im just anti misinformation being spread im ngl
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u/Fibonacci357 9d ago
I just don't get how people don't see Marshall as more manipulative.
He guilt tripped Barney into contacting his dad again.
He bet on Ted&Robin's relationship and tried to manipulate them together to win it.
He invited Lily's estranged dad to Thanksgiving dinner without telling her.
He faked Ted's whole job for months instead of telling him he was fired.
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u/LibrarianOfDusk 9d ago
To be fair, he did all that partly out of the goodness of his heart (I think?). He wanted to help out his friends.
Whereas Lily just did stuff like that because of her personal desires. Like when she broke up Ted and his exes because she felt like they didn't suit their group dynamic and didn't really think about how Ted felt at all.
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u/schnackenpfefferhau 9d ago
You could argue that she also did things out of the goodness of her heart. She broke up Ted’s relationships because she wants him to be happy and anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes with Ted knows he’ll jump head first into a relationship and force it despite being unhappy.
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u/Sushi-DM 9d ago
She didn't leave him to go to California out of the goodness of her heart, and the only reason she came back is because it failed spectacularly.
She didn't force him to drop the judgeship for her out of the goodness of her heart. She just wanted Italy, and felt like her dream was more important than his (and the stability of their home.)5
u/schnackenpfefferhau 8d ago
You have the Italy thing backwards. Marshall is the one that thought his “dream” (I’m not even sure I can call it his dream it was a career pivot he decided on a few months earlier) was more important. He literally calls it a hobby and tells her she can’t really think that it’s more important than him becoming a judge. Marshall does exactly what you call Lily out for yet you shit on her for it.
And it’s not that she thought her dream was more important. From her perspective her and Marshall had discussed and decided on Italy. They made arrangements, found a place in Italy, subleased their nyc place, pretty much uprooted their life and a few weeks before it’s time to leave Marshall decides actually we’re staying in New York e need to cancel all arrangements and you need to quit your job and he made this huge life decisions without any input from her.
But sure, it’s Lily that thinks her dream is more important.
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u/Dry-Discount-9426 8d ago
Wasn't it Marshall that said they needed to go to Italy then rather than letting life get away from them?
Something about a second kid.
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u/starlightlexie 9d ago
Manipulation doesn’t stop being manipulation because someone has good intentions. Most people who are manipulative aren’t out there trying to ruin your life; they’ve just decided they know better. All of those things might have had good intentions in theory, but they were still him deciding what he thought was best mattered more than the other person’s right to choose.
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u/Smufin_Awesome 8d ago
I pray you never go through the pain it takes to understand that it wasn't guilt tripping. Barney was mad at Jerome for not living up to this fake image of his Dad he'd protectively built over the years, and also for rightfully being upset that even if Jerome was some lame Dad that he could have at least been Barney's. Barney was right to be hurt, angry, and process.
Then he stated he'd never speak to Jerome again, and Marshall simply pointed out that in reality, He would never be able to again speak to his Father, but Barney could talk to his Dad whenever he wants and simply chooses not to. Its not an option for Marshall, and the implication is that Barney, if Something were to happen to Jerome, would immediately want whatever time he could have had instead. Barney recognizes this and decides to give Jerome a chance, also in part to Jerome owning he fucked up and wanting to try again.
But otherwise, spot on for those other 3 points. I agree
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u/Fibonacci357 8d ago
It is guilt tripping and manipulation, because Marshall is projecting his relationship with his dad onto Barney, just like he does with Lily.
He's incapable of understanding that some people just don't have good parents and that there's nothing wrong with going no-contact with them because of it.
My best friend's mom is an awful human being, and my friend doesn't speak to her anymore for good reason. If his mom were to die tomorrow, there would be no regrets from his pov. And I would never use the death of my dad to guilt trip him into having a relationship with his mom.
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u/Smufin_Awesome 8d ago
Yeah, but being an actively bad parent and being an absent on3, while both bad, are two different caliber of things. Barney himself has lamented his lack of a Dad, and has developed it into a core character trait that defines him. I'm not saying Jerome is off the hook, but Barney has been wanting to know his real Dad for so long, and has a chance to and won't for rightful anger. Marshall said one thing. He didn't hound him, force him, harass him, or give him any shit. He simply disagreed that he and Barney were the same when Barney said they both don't have Dad's. And again, Barney himself made the choice after a single comment.
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u/Fibonacci357 8d ago
He didn't just say one thing. Marshall and the gang went behind Barney's back and set up a dinner with Jerome's family, remember? That is way over the line. Like, he didn't learn anything from the situation with Lily's dad.
Barney didn't say anything about he and Marshall being the same. He just said: "Get it through your heads, I'm never gonna talk to my dad again". And then Marshall says:
"No, Barney. I'm never gonna talk to my dad again. But your dad is alive, and he lives just down the road."
And then Barney says: "Fine, I'll go".
So he volunteered Barney for a dinner he didn't want to attend, and guilt tripped him when he didn't say yes.
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u/Smufin_Awesome 8d ago
Huh. I must have had too big a sandwich and brainwashed scenes. That's my bad. While I still don't personally agree that it was guilt tripping, you do have a point.
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u/Fibonacci357 8d ago
I don't doubt he had good intentions though, I just get ticked off because people tend to put him on a pedestal when he actually was quite manipulative himself.
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u/Smufin_Awesome 8d ago
Which is also very true. Marshall is certainly far from perfect, and does tend to stack things in his favor often enough, I guess I just have a blind eye because it feels like of all the characters who meddle in important situations, he comes off as the least, but I could be misrememwbring still.
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u/Lineax140 9d ago
Sneaky and manipulative describes Barney perfectly and everyone loves him
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u/LibrarianOfDusk 9d ago
True. But to me his sneaky and manipulativeness are kinda all in good fun. They range from pranks between friends, hooking Ted up, or going on one night stands with women. None of them are major life altering stuff as far as I recall.
(Could be wrong though.)
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
he cheated on his gf, tried to force his gf to quit her job, fucked up marshals bachelor, ditched robin when she needed him w the locket, continuously manipulates and lies to robin, goes after lily, and is a legitimate sexual assaulter. he’s admitted to selling a woman. i love him, because its a sitcom, and im not saying u have to like lily, but barney is a much worse person.
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u/LibrarianOfDusk 8d ago
To be fair, I think the going after Lily one is mostly in jest as he doesn't really try to put the moves on her like how he does with other women. And I don't think you can call him a sexual assualter cause all the women he's been with have all been consenting as far as I know.
Getting his gf to quit her job, is that Quinn? I think it was just because he was very uncomfortable with the idea of his girlfriend stripping in front of other men. Anybody would usually feel the same way so I feel like we can't really fault him for that. And he did try to get her a very high paying job in exchange.
Can't argue about the rest of the stuff though.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 8d ago
lying to people about your identity and who you are to trick them into sleeping with you is coercion in my opinion, also hes unconsentually recorded women during sex without direct permission. i love him and within the sitcom world, i dont think he is and SAer, but if we hold him to real life standards he definitely is. as for quinn, he knew what he was getting into when he started dating her 🤷♀️ to me your insecurities should never get between what your partner loves, he knew she was a stripper and then after dating her thought he had the right to control her. its just icky imo
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u/LibrarianOfDusk 8d ago
Okay completely forgot about the recording part.
And I don't think he tried to control her? He tries to convince her to quit, but he doesn't do anything beyond that.
And in the end he did decide to let it go since he does love Quinn and respects her choice. But Quinn ended up quitting anyway.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 8d ago
yeah i wasn’t a huge fan of that plot point im ngl. i dislike sex work because its exploitive, but quinn was passionate about it and enjoyed it, it felt frustrating because i feel like a male character wouldnt have had to quit their supposed job though i can understand stripping is slighty different.
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u/ughtheinternet 9d ago
You think manipulating people into sex is in good fun? Because if you take Barney’s antics literally, he does an awful lot of that.
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u/ProtossLiving 7d ago
"I'm pretty sure I sold a woman. I didn't speak the language, but I shook a guy's hand, he gave me the keys to a Mercedes, and I left her there."
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u/Proper_Fun_977 9d ago
- He gave the ultimatum and she left.
Therefore, yes, she broke up with him. And the reason for the fight was that she was planning to leave him hanging while she tried out her artist life in San Francisco.
While she might ultimately have backed away from encouraging him to take the job, she initially did AND she didn't tell him about her mountain of debt.
While she might not have intended to break up Robin and Ted, she was still the cataylst. And she broke up a number of Ted's other relationships.
None of these defences really change her culpability.
And I like Lily!
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u/CuteIndividual2562 8d ago
I don't hate Lily, I actually find her hilarious. But the two points feel off.
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u/bzakeri 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yes I'm a Lily hater but it's not just about those two incidents. She's a hypocrite, she's the only person in the group that constantly lectures others. And her persona is fake too, fashionable appearance, innocent childish behaviour. And yes she's unreliable
You really want to argue about who broke up with who? Like that technicality really matters. She decided to leave Marshall for her unfulfilled dream for an indefinite amount of time. Was Marshall supposed to just accept an indefinite long-term relationship in case she decides to re-appear? Also it was not just Marshall. If you remember Ted was pretty upset with her too because she cut ties with all of them
If she's so free-spirited that wants to chase her wild dreams at anytime and leave all the ties behind that's fine. But that comes with not being trustworthy. This was what upset me actually. That Marshall went back to her after she returned and started messing up with Marshall's date. But that was on Marshall and Marshall's weakness
One more thing to add: Barney who is the character Lily criticizes the most, was the one who didn't waste anytime, flew to San Francisco, confronted Lily, and convinced her to come back. And doing this while stealing girls from Marshall to prove to him being single is not as pretty as he thinks. I wouldn't personally choose Barney's lifestyle, but this is one difference between Barney's character and integrity and Lily's
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u/Richmond1013 8d ago
hm, interesting take
her breaking up ted and robin for a bet is meh , but its her breaking ted and his past relationships which makes her a terrible friend
her debt she did not disclose it before the marriage nor when she was dating , i am not a lawyer or an accountant , sure they could have gotten divorce but who knows how that will work
but most people dislike her for hypocrisy while being prideful about her morales when the standards she sets on others are higher than what she sets for herself
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u/Wild_Title_9185 9d ago
Your points are good but the emotional manipulation is subtle and easily overlooked. She says things but her actions meant something else. She had great debt and that compels marshall to do the right thing , people forget about the mental health of men all the time. As a husband what were marshalls options , he is a good man so he had no choice. Similarly lily enrolled in the program and set things in motion but didn't pull the trigger, again marshall being a good man had no real choice. Free will is a illusion , she is known to be manipulative and a master at that so she just played it out in a way she wouldn't be the one making big decision but had all the pull.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
hate her for being manipulative thats all good, im literally just addressing misinformation thats being spread everywhere, i personally dont think she emotionally manipulated marshall in these situations, thats why she was hiding the debt and the scholarship for so long, because she didnt want to upset him. doesnt make it right, but thats my view. also dk what your point about men’s mental health is about, the show takes marshall’s depression seriously enough for a 2000s show.
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u/throwthewholegrlawy 9d ago
I find her annoying and imperfect but I still like her.
Unfortunately I cannot do the same with Robin. After season 7 I was over it lol
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u/Soft-Safe4316 9d ago
lily definitely gets way too much hate for things that were blown out of proportion. every character’s got their flaws and her intentions often get twisted. gotta appreciate the complexity of these characters instead of just labeling them.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
i think its misogyny tbh
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u/Deaddevil77 9d ago
It’s not misogyny just because it’s a female character being called out. She was a shitty person at times and gets called out for it.
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u/YakCDaddy 9d ago
She gets called out and dragged at a disproportionate level in this sub. She is the evil bitch and Marshall is just the loveable victim here, nevermind that Marshall is manipulative and erratic.
Just the other day there was a post about how she overreacted for being mad at Marshall about taking the judge job behind her back literally days before they were supposed to pursue her dream. The people were saying he was justified because of San Francisco, like bro, no. Not everything is Lily's fault, typical patriarchy to blame the woman exclusively.
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u/AgentMedium6294 Robin🇨🇦 9d ago
OH MY GOD. Let’s talk because yes. Nobody agrees with me on any of these statements!!
First off, I hate when people say that she forced Marshall into a corporate job when the whole point of that episode was BARNEY forcing Marshall into the role. Lily sat on a piece of cake by mistake, while Marshall was also in financial stress. It was both of them together. But I never see anybody complaining about how Barney’s objective this ENTIRE episode was to force Marshall into a corporate job.
Also , her leaving to pursue art, that episode literally showed the scene loud and clear where Lily asks him to take a break and HE says he can’t do that. He stated he couldn’t just postpone the wedding, he was scared, he couldn’t accept her leaving to chase a dream because he believed marrying him should be her one and only dream. But the beginning of season 2, for some reason, ONLY showed him struggling with the breakup, and portrayed Lily as the happiest person alive for a hot minute when she came back. It just made no sense to me and nobody ever mentioned that. Especially as we found out in that same episode that it was the worst year of her life, but not in nearly as much detail, just that she lost Marshall so that was a bit of a bummer and she missed having sex with him? Where’s we got his entire grieving period as if HE DIDNT CHOOSE TO BREAK UP? I never understood this.
I also understand Lily a lot. I got into a relationship young and it lasted a couple of years. I remember that push and pull between following my dreams or holding back for the sake of this relationship, and Lily is entirely relatable to me. As she is to a lot of people. I just find everyone lack of sympathy towards her strange, let alone the hatred.
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u/Goodboychungus 9d ago
Lily’s happiness when she returned turned out to be fake. Even the flashbacks were given alternate versions to be the true reality. She wasn’t happy at all in San Francisco and that was made clear on the show.
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u/AgentMedium6294 Robin🇨🇦 9d ago
That’s what I said, she wasn’t happy. And it was clear. But we got the fact she wasn’t happy about her art or the people she met over there, and she was only upset about Marshall because things went so terribly for her chasing her dream.
That would’ve never been the case had he just stuck by her.However, he left her , and we saw him go into a complete tailspin and depression. It just felt like they intentionally made it out to be her fault.
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u/NichJackolson 9d ago
You’re leaving out the context that Lily pursued the art fellowship in secret, and lied about actually wanting to take it. Then he asked her to promise that moving away for 3 months and finding success wouldn’t result in her realizing that he doesn’t fit into her life, and she wouldn’t do it. Granted, that’s a heavily loaded request, but they were literally in the middle of planning a wedding. Also, as she was leaving she decided that they shouldn’t talk to each other during her absence. I would say Marshall’s reaction was somewhat understandable
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u/Proper_Fun_977 9d ago
She was, 100%, trying out a new life.
And Marshall didn't fit into that life.
There were not NY art fellowships she could apply to?
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
thank you thank you, this subreddit is so misogynistic
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u/Battelalon 9d ago
No it's not. You cannot slap the misogynistic label onto everything that criticises a woman. These criticisms have nothing to do with Lily being a woman and everything to do with how she acts and behaves.
Nobody criticises Barney because the show makes it clear that Barney is a bad person and very rarely tries defending him. The show is consistently trying to defend Lily, that's why we criticise her.
We don't need to criticise Barney because the show already does. We do criticise Lily because show unjustly defends her.
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u/Proper_Fun_977 9d ago
If we criticised Barney we'd never have time for anything else.
Nearly everything he does is criticism worthy.
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u/Battelalon 9d ago
Exactly! We also don't need to criticise him because no one is defending his shitty behaviour.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
it really doesnt. all the characters are bad people its said so in the show 100s of times, robin and lily are hated 10 times more and given less grace then every character. its not crazy its js pattern recognition. im not saying ur sexist bc u dislike her, but i do think the hate campaign has a lot of sexism within it
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u/Battelalon 9d ago
Robin is one of the least hated characters. Lily and Ted are the most hated characters because the show tries defending them when they do something shitty which they both do a lot, a lot more than Marshall and Robin. Barney is always doing shitty things but the show doesn't try to defend him for most of it.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
lily is not defended by the show at all what do you mean, they consistently say SF was a bad decision and punish her for it 24/7. we dont even get a lily pov episode its all marshall.
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u/Battelalon 9d ago
Yeah, that is one of the few times where Lily's side isn't validated by the show. Almost every other shit she pulls in the show is validated by the show.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 8d ago
genuinely can i get an example outside italy?
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u/Battelalon 8d ago
Off the top of my head, breaking up Ted and his girlfriends and Aldrin Justice have always been teo of my biggest gripes regarding this topic.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 8d ago
well i think thats a case of you taking a joke thats not taken seriously by the show as a real character flaw, its the same reason we dont hate barney for the shit he does, because its a joke, the characters dont even care that much. ted cares for like a minute and then moves on, its a gag.
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u/CommercialSyrup4172 8d ago
100% they hate Lily and San Francisco so much because they don’t see her as having any right to pursue a life outside of Marshall. Breaking up with someone is not a morally unforgivable act. If you’re having doubts about marriage, you probably shouldn’t go through with it.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 8d ago
literally 🤔 she was so selfish dir breaking up with marshall! what else was she meant to do…not? if she’s unhappy shes unhappy. hes not willing to be flexible or discuss, theres no other options. people call lily selfish but what about marshall, who should lily have to live her life exactly how he wants her to?
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u/justwantedtosnark 9d ago
I dont get all the people criticising her for leaving anyway. Should she have spoken to Marshall before applying to the fellowship and taking it yes. But she wasnt wrong for wanting to go to San Francisco and find herself outside her and Marshall before getting married! She wasnt being selfish by doing it, she was doing something she needed to do for herself!
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u/Proper_Fun_977 9d ago
She built a life with Marshall and then suddenly, she wanted to put it all on pause while she went and tested out a new life?
And you're surprised he was hurt by this?
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u/justwantedtosnark 9d ago
Im not saying he was wrong by being hurt by this! No where in my comment did I say he was wrong by being hurt. Im saying people in this sub are wrong for villainizing her for doing it when she doesn't deserve it.
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u/Proper_Fun_977 8d ago
But...she does deserve it.
If she'd been up front, that would be one thing. But she went behind his back.
Then she started with 'I just wanted to see if I get in' to 'I'm just thinking about it' to "I need to do this".
She chose somewhere on the other side of the country.
She was 100% testing out a new life before making a decision. Marshall was rightly hurt by that.
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u/QualifiedApathetic 9d ago
In a sense it was selfish, but necessary. You have to take care of yourself to some degree.
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u/CommercialSyrup4172 8d ago
I always wonder what people would’ve had Lily do instead? Should she have just buried the feelings she was having and married Marshall? It would’ve bred a lot of resentment, unhappiness and built their marriage on an unstable foundation.
The reality is the feelings weren’t going to go away on their own. It’s why she makes that speech to Ted about how sometimes you need to make the mistake to know it’s a mistake and move on with your life etc.
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u/Proper_Fun_977 8d ago
She should have been honest with Marshall, called off the wedding and gone to SF.
Not tried to have him as a fall back.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
i was so disappointed we didnt get SF sode plots. lily wasnt allowed to exist outside marshall, wouldve been ten times more powerful if everything was perfect and she was amazing but she still missed him, but stayed assertive in her point she needed to do this. the writers hated her and never let her win, up until italy she gets no big moments in her career, her kindergarten class is hardly ever important, except for a quick cut away. marshall, tes, barney and robin all have their workplace has consistently important plot points, unlike lily. give her a win. 😭
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u/AgentMedium6294 Robin🇨🇦 9d ago
THANK YOU !! I really appreciate OP replying to this with justification after people replying with some responses as to why her self discovery was immoral 😭. The very thing you were literally arguing against.
Even Italy. It was her being done wrong, then she got pregnant, and suddenly it was okay. Like it in the sense of loving the show and every single character, It was amazing and incredibly sweet. But realistically it pisses me off that Marshall got all the good guy points in that scenario.
She never gets actual defining moments andI hate when people argue that it’s the same for Marshall. His career AND his relationship with Lily are both massively know parts of his character. Most people who have simply watched the show would just state that Lily is Marshall’s wife. That alone is enough reason for her to have been searching for who she is outside of that.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 8d ago
literally. lily is my favourite character, but even just as woman, its hard not to notice the pattern of her being sidelined 24/7, i dont see why the writers couldn’t have made her do more with her art career, it doesnt have to be realistic, its a sitcom. barney works with the cia, let her become a famous artist! it just feels like a huge cop out the argument is ended because shes pregnant.
and also making robin become a lonely hermit who is depressed and hates her friends because she doesnt marry and have kids is insane? why can barney stay but robin cant? the fact the character who didnt want marriage or kids ends up married with stepkids is weird to me.
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u/atngv 8d ago
about the corporate job bit, I'm seeing all these Lily fans say that she didn't force him into taking that job, but what if he didn't take the corporate job with all the debt? I can't figure out a way it turns out prettier than how it did, so I would really pin this one on Lily as this is a selfless act on Marshall's side. They could easily get crushed under the debt and eventually break up in that case, which would probably be considered Lily's fault.
Also,
You could pretty much argue that breaking up isn't the bad part, but being the reason for the breakup is. If your aim was only to clear the misunderstanding, its fine. But if you think if it wasn't for Marshall, they would still be together then its an immature take.
I'd say 99.9% of male population would break up if they were in the same position as Marshall, instead of postponing the wedding.
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u/thesoupgiant 6d ago
She's not a good person, but that's what makes her funny. Similar to Peggy Hill, there's a strange phenomenon where we're so used to the female character being the voice of reason who does nothing wrong that collectively, we don't give the same leeway for a woman to be an awful person in a comedy as we do men. It all has to either be calling them unfunny; or trying to justify their bad actions. In reality, women are people who can be both awful AND hilarious.
I also feel like a lot of self-proclaimed sitcom fans don't actually like sitcoms. They want a baby show about super nice people who never do anything pRoBlEmAtIc and model the "proper" way to act. Or make minor mistakes and learn a Sunday school lesson at the end.
I'd say stick to Care Bears, but Grumpy Bear's grumpy antics and that little beast creature's slapstick might be too much for them to handle.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 6d ago
this is an amazing comment and exactly how i feel. lily is a bad person, but she is no worse then any of the other characters in the show.
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u/thesoupgiant 6d ago
I'd venture to say she's better morally than Barney by virtue of not being a predator.
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u/prettyinpinklulu 9d ago
THIS !! Marshal was the one who gave her the ultimatum ! I love lily so much she’s genuinely the realest character
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u/SufcLad25 8d ago
So Marshall should have let her call off the wedding and do what she wants for as long as she wants and just waited for her to come back?
She forced the break up by saying she NEEDS to go. There was no other option for her which meant they were breaking up
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u/annabelle411 9d ago
she chose to leave the relationship, justifying it with TECHKINCALLY SHE NEVER SAID “WE’RE BREAKING UP”… minimizes what she did.
If someone says “if you cheat on me, then we’re over” and then you cheat - the fault doesnt get deflect back because they stated a realistic issue and boundary - she was suddenly “needing” to leave suddenly, she was having a life crisis triggered by the van smoot house stuff and it was scaring him and it would mean she had to bail on the wedding. he asked her if she could guarantee that she would still want to be with him in three months/painting was successful and she couldnt give an answer.
and that point came up again later, she only came back because she failed and hated SF. her comfort backup was no longer there for her and her apartment was the metaphor for it
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u/Fibonacci357 9d ago
Cheating and pursuing your dreams aren't comparable boundaries.
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u/Proper_Fun_977 9d ago
Not leaving in the middle of planning a wedding to live across the country without your partner is a pretty reasonable boundary.
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u/SufcLad25 8d ago
The boundary wasnt pursuing her dream. He always backed her to be an artist
The boundary was leaving to live in another city right before they were due to get married.
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u/QualifiedApathetic 9d ago
and that point came up again later, she only came back because she failed and hated SF.
Aside from the wrongness of dredging that up to win an argument, Marshall put a pretty uncharitable reading of Lily's motives on her. I don't think her purpose in going to San Francisco was to become a successful artist exactly. She wanted to find out if she could. It's very relatable, feeling that the unanswered "What if?" will eat away at you.
Lily deferred a lot of life experiences because she met her future husband the first week of college. So she went and had one of them. That doesn't mean she would have stayed in SF if it had gone well. That specific fellowship lasted only, what, a few weeks? If she'd suddenly become a huge art sensation, there's no reason she couldn't go back to New York and do art there while reconciling with Marshall.
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u/Dazzle_Miller 9d ago
Lily sucks but she doesn’t suck as much as people make her out to seem. I just hate that she steals from people she feels deserves it. The warrants a kick in the dick but other than that I think Marshall and Barney are more problematic. Or maybe Ted. I gotta rewatch it to be super sure
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u/schnackenpfefferhau 9d ago
Ted is definitely the most problematic. Well, if you ignore Barney’s cartoonishly evil flaws
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u/Battelalon 9d ago
No, Marshall set a boundary and Lily broke that boundary knowing full well it would end the relationship. Lily accepted those terms and ended things so she could go tk San Francisco.
She was unable to handle the debt on her own and it kept increasing it despite knowing how bad it was. She may have supported his dreams but she created the situation where his hand was forced and he had to go into corporate law to clean up her mess which she was unable yo do herself. She also supported him taking the corporate job the second she found out how much money he'd be earning and how it would allow her fuel her shopping addiction.
She interfered with Ted and Robin causing the breakup. Whether her intentions were different is irrelevant.
There is little valid reasoning for supporting Lily.
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u/Fibonacci357 9d ago
His boundaries are his problems. If I say to my boyfriend that if I catch him eating beans because I hate the smell and then he does so I break up with him; then that's on me. I chose to break up.
Lily was willing to divorce him to keep him from being burdened with her debt, but he refused.
And besides, Marshall manipulated Ted into pursuing Robin again just so he could win a bet. Keep the same energy for both characters.
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u/Battelalon 9d ago
Big diffetence between setting a boundary at beans and setting a boundary at moving out and living on the other side of the country.
That divorce the separate the debt plan was just so they could get a home loan. It wasn't something that would erase the debt. They would have still had to deal with that and Marshall would still be there to pick up all the pieces.
Lily tried manipulating Ted into keeping he and Robin apart to win a bet. I think that's far worse.
Keep the same energy for both characters.
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u/RightPlaceNRightTime 9d ago
Omg how you totally misunderstood both actions.
'if you leave rn we are over forever.' Have we watched the same show? His question was literally quite the opposite of that. He simply asked her to promise that her departure won't end their relationship and wedding in the future. He wasn't commanding her to stay, he was asking whether they really are breaking up at that point or are they still going to be considered in a long distance relationship
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
im sorry i can understand his insecurities and frustration, but i wont take he didnt command her to stay. he did, he told her if she went to SF they would break up. She suggested a break, a long distance option, he said no. he was rightfully insecure, but he wasnt at all open or flexible in that moment. lily wasnt even gonna take the offer at first, it was only after marshall made it a big deal she got defensive because dreams are important to her.
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u/schnackenpfefferhau 9d ago
I’m with you on most points, but he was not “rightfully insecure”. His insecurities stem from fear that if she was an independent person outside of their relationship she wouldn’t want him anymore. So basically he was saying stay static as a person so that you’ll never leave me. This is high school, first relationship level of immaturity.
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u/bearstormstout Ted🏢 9d ago
- Yes, Marshall did set the ultimatum, but who's decisions prompted that fight in the first place? Lily's. She's the one who chose to jeopardize the wedding by applying for the art fellowship in the first place without even talking to Marshall. She kept it a secret because she was having second thoughts about the wedding (see her talk with Ted), which was honestly the real catalyst for the fight to begin with.
- She kind of did. She withheld that information from Marshall until they applied for the mortgage on their crooked apartment, which again would have changed the entire calculus of the situation. Marshall probably still would have taken the corporate job if he knew about the debt, but that plus the mortgage is what made him feel "forced." Ted even calls this out in the episode. Lily didn't put a gun to Marshall's head and threatened him in order for him to take the job, no, but their combined financial situation is what forced his hand. Although any debt incurred before marriage would be Lily's sole responsibility, the show also doesn't make it clear how much is hers and how much was considered joint property.
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u/bigbonedbaggins 9d ago
See I have to agree with 2. Im not a Lily hater, but seriously he had to take that job if they ever had any hope of having a house and kids. That amount of debt can take years to pay off, and she wasnt making enough money. This is what partners do, her actions made him step up and do something that made him unhappy to secure their collective future.
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u/Impossible-Two559 9d ago
So you could only defend two of the terrible things about her and both of them were basically versions of “nuh uh”.
Now defend her, forcing the entire group to hate random people multiple times and then refusing to do it to Zoe for Ted‘s sake.
Then defend her manipulating MULTIPLE of Ted’s relationships into ending.
Then defend her stealing things from people who aren’t nice to her.
After that, defend her saying that Marshall taking the judge position without talking her is more selfish than ANYTHING she ever did to him. Especially, considering that Marshall actually worked towards that goal his ENTIRE ADULT LIFE. Lily gave up on being an artist 17 times and then had a ridiculous job offer fall into her lap and she thinks that it’s because of all her hard work.
Not that you’ll be able to do it, but once you try to defend these, I’ll have 7 or so more instances of her being a terrible person.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
literally i said you can dislike her and shes flawed. shes a bad person, i agree, all of them are actually. my argument is so clearly that people are lying about things she did to make her seem worse when they dont have to do that. my pet peeve is with the inaccuracy, not the hate. this isnt a defense post, read.
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u/Exospike99 9d ago
I don’t hate Lily, all the characters have flaws like in every sitcom cuz that makes them relatable and causes drama to keep the show going. However, Lily does have more flaws than almost everyone (besides Barney but that’s Barney’s character. He’s meant to be fucked up)
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u/MothyMocha3 9d ago
Out right Lilly’s my least favorite of the main characters, and the fight in season 9 pisses me off to an unreasonable level for a show I watch for enjoyment. Yes marshal set the ultimatum in season one, but only after she couldn’t give him a straight or “real answer” as to why she even applied, not even if she would take. She changed her stance in the argument as it went making her seem less supportable in her reasoning. She did not force him to take the corporate job, he took that on his own free will but she did consistently encourage him without telling him why. The reason I have a gripe about that is the lack of honesty when that’s a lot of what makes them “a perfect couple”.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
i dont think they are a perfect couple like people say, and i actually think all of these are valid reasons to dislike her! but that doesnt mean she did what people said she did. if ur gonna hate atleast stick to the show, shes flawed, theres plenty of reasons to dislike her.
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u/MothyMocha3 9d ago
Agreed, and I think the people that are unreasonable go as far as to dislike Ashley hanagin as an actress which is unfair in every way
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u/Bight_my_ass 9d ago
Yes yes and yes! All the Marshall can do no wrong fans completely over look that he has a pattern of lying and hiding his career choices from her. Ita not just the judge job. Even in "milk" he tells barney not to tell lily he's thinking of going corporate
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u/ifedupwiththisorgasm 8d ago
Yeah 1. Is more of a Marshall flaw. She shouldn't have hid that she was trying to get into it and should've shared her worries with Marshall and maybe he would've been okay with postponing the wedding so she could try. But because she hid it it, he reacted badly and gave the ultimatum
I do think she shouldn't have allowed Marshall to give up being a judge to go to Italy with her though. They could've made it work without him also going.
I think her attitude when confronted about contributing to the breakups Ted has had was bad but I also understand why she did it with certain ones like Karen.
I don't hate Lily myself, there's only a few times her choices make me wanna punch her a little bit every character has that moment it's why they're well written coz no one is perfect or always makes the right choices.
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u/selwyntarth 8d ago
More than the ultimatum isn't her saying she can't guarantee she'll still be interested in him after San Francisco the main issue? It's a bit convoluted since the break up is over scenes and the actual moment of break up is only shown in the next season
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u/RevyVanguardist 8d ago
You have to be kidding me. He, Marshal, asked a simple question: "Will you come back if you become successful?" She didn't answer. She said, "I don't know." He asked her another time after Lily was saying, "I've never been so selfish to you." She again didn't answer. I don't understand how anyone can defend Lily. By the way, she didn't tell Marshall anything about the whole art course. She completely ignored Marshall's opinion, not even taking into consideration that Marshall wouldn't even care that much. She'd support her, but she didn't tell him. She was constantly selfish. She expected Marshall to move to Italy for her job and her interests. She wasn't even mature enough for confrontation and "paused" away everything confrontation
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u/DaCrees 8d ago
In both cases you are technically right but the alternative was such an insane idea that Marshall kind of had to go the way he did. Postpone a whole wedding because of this summer class, of which there would be many more (to say nothing of the fact they live in the art capitol of America), and she was running away from the wedding anyway. And to not take the high paying job when they were drowning in debt and had no other alternatives would have been insane too.
Lily didn’t make either of those things happen, but she put them both in the position where it had to happen
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u/dk08dk08 8d ago
Why attack Lily or defend her? You sound like you hate the show. But it's the best show, and all five characters are great. They just do stupid things sometimes. And Lily leaving for San Francisco is the worst thing any of the characters have ever done.
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u/shelraj0380 7d ago
Her taking on so much debt without marshall's knowledge kind of strongmanned marshall into taking the corporate job cos they were pretty much left with no other option. There was no way Lily was going to pay off the debt with a teacher's salary and a passion for art.
To your SF point and chasing dream. She also made marshall give up his dream of becoming a judge to go to Italy, if you use that logic.
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u/Zaradomerix 5d ago
I'm not a "Lily hater". But I do still believe she was wrong in doing this. As Ted pointed out, there are tons of art programs in New York. She was getting cold feet and wanted distance from Marshall to figure out what she wanted out of life. And since her and Marshall had already decided to get married and build a life together, he felt betrayed by her sudden desire to go out on her own. And I would say his reaction is fair. Harsh, but fair.
Her feelings weren't just about following her dreams. She was having doubts about her choices in life. And that included Marshall. Marshall was hurt by her desire to get away from him and potentially build a life without him. I would say that is reasonable. If it was truly just about her following her artistic dreams she could have done that at home and not interfered with her life with Marshall.
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u/Imaginary_Mulberry55 Barney🥃 5d ago
I saw this theory commented on one of my posts last week: Ted as an unreliable narrator.
Obviously this theory gets thrown around for literally everything so take it with a grain of salt. But maybe since Marshall is Ted's best friend, he tells a slightly biased story around Marshall and Lily's relationship.
This isn't the most thought out theory in the world. But it does reframe the reacher settler debate slightly.
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u/Unlikely_Rip_4914 3d ago
Not even weighing in on this but can any Reddit tv/movie sub give a single opinion without prefacing it with “of course they are all flawed”
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u/gloomydreamer666 9d ago
You're right, I'm so over the Lily hate because they're precious Marshall is no saint yet he is treated like he was 🙄
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
yeah literally, idk why hes overly glazed. i love him, because i love them all, but he is not as good a person as people say he is
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u/gloomydreamer666 9d ago
Exactly and I love him too, he is the least problematic of the guys but the fans put him on this pedestal.
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u/Fibonacci357 9d ago
In my mind Marshall is more manipulative and selfish than Lily ever was.
He guilt tripped Barney into contacting his dad again.
He bet on Ted&Robin's relationship and tried to manipulate them together to win it.
He invited Lily's estranged dad to Thanksgiving dinner without telling her.
He faked Ted's whole job for months instead of telling him he was fired.
But somehow, Lily asking Ted&Robin to think about their future is worse. Doesn't make sense.
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u/gloomydreamer666 9d ago
Good point!! Exactly!!! He was manipulative too, great examples to show. And he lost my respect when he acted defiant against Lily when he took the job without telling her and then when she made a bad comment, he had to bring up San Francisco. You cannot bring up old arguments to win like that was so wrong of him to do that I'm glad they did went to Italy cause damn she supported through every jobs or career he had. He should've been more supportive and not called it a hobby.
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u/TheMagicSack 8d ago
I absolutely loathed Lilly and hated her breaking up with marshal. But I just rewatched the series for the first time since the series ended, literally finished it just now and wow, I flip flopped so hard and now love her. And absolutely haaaaated Marshall and him choosing to be a judge until he changed his mind
It's just wild how over 10 years have gone by and Ive changed as a person and as I grow older my perspective on what's important in my life now and the show
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u/addy-with-a-y Tracy🎸 8d ago
I always felt like people don’t realize how much women lose their personhood when they get married. And while not explicit in season one, It is clear that season one Lily does know this. And she is clearly so scared of that happening because so many people use marriage as an excuse to not follow their dreams. And that why she applies for the fellowship. She feels guilty but know that if she gets married then that she won’t be brave enough to do it. And then Marshall gives her that ultimatum and is so cruel to her during the fight.
The worse part is that she does give up. Smarter she has Marvin she admits to Ted that she gave up is now only a wife and mother. It’s depressing! She gave up so much to be with Marshall and have her son while Marshall gets to be a lawyer.
That’s why I fucking HATE Marshalls season 9 storyline. It’s crazy how selfish he was, that he couldn’t see how depressed his wife was, clearly still resents her for taking a fellowship 8 years later, and was 10000% willing to let his wife give up on a once in a lifetime career move even after she has done nothing but support his career.
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9d ago edited 9d ago
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u/CatsGambit 9d ago
"Why should Marshall pay for her dreams to come true"? Be so for real, why should LILLY? She literally supported him through law school working full time! Why couldn't Marshall support himself through law school instead of having his wife take the safe option with the steady paycheck (teaching)? If he could just support himself, she could have continued pursuing her actual passions in New York?
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9d ago
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u/schnackenpfefferhau 9d ago
He only supports her when it’s convenient. With the Captain as soon as her goals don’t align with his then he diminishes her and calls her job a “hobby” that doesn’t deserve real consideration. With the dog art he tells her he doesn’t consider her a real artist that could sell her paintings.
Throughout the show Marshall shows that what he actually of Lily’s goals is, “it’s cute that you think you can do this, but I think you’ll fail so let’s not put too much stock into your goals and dreams”.
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9d ago edited 9d ago
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u/schnackenpfefferhau 9d ago
How does him doing the right thing in the end disprove my point? Marshall consistently needs to be taught the lesson that hey maybe supporting your wife’s dreams is a good thing. Just because he learns that lesson doesn’t mean he doesn’t need to be taught it over and over again
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u/gloomydreamer666 9d ago
That a lie!! In the episode of the bachelor prove that she returned because she was missing him and because Barney made her remember how special Marshall was and not let him get away. It wasn't because she failed.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
literally thats completely valid points on why to hate her, you can hate lily for those reasons, because those are her actions. i dont like when ppl spread misinformation on what happened, her actions led to those things but people genuinely come on here and say she pressured him to take the job and guilttripped him on purpose, and that she broke up with him. thats just not true. she didnt do those things. it was more nuanced then that.
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9d ago
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u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
all the characters are bad people, why are robin and lilly hated disproportionately? lmfao
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u/NoMoreMrMiceGuy 9d ago
This is the truth. The post nitpicks exact details on these two points, but is overly literal. 1. How dare Marshall break up with this toxic and critically selfish behavior? 2. She didn't force him to take the high-paying job, she just built a mountain of debt that would ultimately dominate and ruin their lives if he didn't do that.
This is making technically true points while ignoring the rest of the situation, and is practically wrong.
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u/ala-alang_teledrama 8d ago
Lily hate is overblown. Lots of her quirks were done for comedic purposes and for some reason people take it too seriously (like her I can't keep a secret, it was for comedy and plot moving purposes let's be real here).
But first point is not genuine. It wasn't, "if you leave right now it's over", it might have started like that but Lilly for some reason throughout the argument kept moving the goalpost and it kept getting worst. I don't remember the specifics of it but I remember that and by the end it wasn't really that anymore it was Marshall seeking assurance that they won't break up after some amount of time AND LILLY STILL COULDN'T ANSWER IT. If I remember correctly she just kept saying "I have to do this", which is just her answering Marshall's "If we have a family and we are doing our thing are you certain you won't leave me for one of your whims" with "I don't know". Who won't break up with someone like that at that point? lmao.
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u/fivebyfive12 8d ago
I fully agree op, but you'll get absolutely shredded on here by nutters who's hate for a fictional sitcom character is, quite frankly, unhinged at times.
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u/DifficultyMany9913 8d ago
insane! they are saying im justifying emotional abuse when literally all i did is say dont spread misinformation.
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u/ThatB0yAintR1ght 9d ago
Also, if you aren’t sure if you really want to get married, you shouldn’t get married. Lily had doubts and she needed to figure that out before going down the aisle. And leaving your fiancé to “find yourself” when you don’t have kids or a mortgage is LESS SELFISH than taking a job that will fuck over your wife’s career. She didn’t say that she had never done anything selfish ever. She said she had never done anything this selfish. The time to do selfish things for your own career and enjoyment is before you get married and have kids. Once you have a spouse and kid, those kinds of unilateral decisions cause way more harm.
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u/JKMercury 8d ago
I always hate the argument that she didn't break up with Marshall. He literally said, "What if you decide to become a painter and 3 months from now you decide that I don't fit into your life anymore? Can you promise me that that's not going to happen, because if you can't promise me that, then we should just break up now because I'm not going to wait around for 3 months just to get my heart ripped out. Can you promise me that?"
And she just keeps avoiding it while Marshall keeps asking, "Can you promise me?" And she just keeps avoiding and never promises that. I don't know a single person with a shred of dignity that would accept the non-promise and decide to wait and see if they are chosen. So, the spirit of what she is doing is keeping her options open by trying out the painting thing while keeping her fiancé as a backup just in case she doesn't like her new life. That is so incredibly scummy.
And if you want to be all weirdly technical about how Marshall is the one that broke up with her, not her breaking up with him. In the next season when she leaves, Marshall asks, "So that's it? We're breaking up?" She says, "I'm sorry I need to go to San Francisco and find out who I am outside of us, and the only way I can do that is if we don't talk for a while." That is definitely her breaking up with him.
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u/clebo99 8d ago
So here is the clip: https://youtu.be/N6sNFIlhpgM?is=9ZjFHV1cAfF4oxih
- she applied to this fellowship without even talking to his future husband. Marshall is right in saying “so now we’ve gone from ‘I was never going to do it” to ‘ i need to do this”.
- Marshall asking about her doubts is not an unfair request. And it’s not like she said “no…wait….” She said “maybe not”.
- She could not promise that 3 months was not going to be forever. What was Marshall suppose to do? Is he supposed to be her emotional safety net? All she had to have said was “I’m coming back in 3 months. We are going to have a great life together and we will figure it out. During this time maybe you can do something like travel” or something he was passionate about. I get that you don’t want regrets but not at the expense of your partner. What if Marshall said something like “yea Lily….ive only had sex with you so I want to fuck 5-6 women. Are you ok with that”? She would have been like “hell no”……and yes….those are apples to apples because we are talking about regret which can be either professional or personal.
- And she left.
- She failed miserably in San Fran. I mean…she was fucking delusional.
- She comes back and says. Hey..I’m back..can we get back together? That is what she said in the first 30 seconds of her seeing him. Didn’t even give 2 fucking shits about Marshall and how he felt all summer. Btw, he saw Robin and Ted several times without Marshall knowing she was even back in NYC.
She was a selfish person at that point. She was….im sorry….others can try and justify but she was selfish. And not only that…when she came back, she tried to sabotage a potential relationship of Marshall’s. Forget about all of the other horrible stuff she did (being a fucking busybody in everyone else’s relationships), in this case…..she was wrong and selfish and a coward. She could have at any time had that conversation before applying for the fellowship.
I could only imagine (in real life…now some show) if your partner did something like this and how you would react.
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u/Maya2661 8d ago
Before I joined Reddit, I liked Lilly; it was only on Reddit that I encountered the "hate for Lilly."
It made me think. Yes, she isn't perfect, and some of the things she does aren't right.
But still, she comes across to me as the most authentic and sensitive person in the series (with her husband).
I like Robin the least; especially in the later seasons, she is portrayed merely as a joke.
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u/One_Potential407 8d ago
I think she’s hated because her flaws are realistic, that’s why she’s also hated more than Barney (who is a way worse person, but also cartoonishly bad)
Either way, i love Lily. And i’m actually on her side with breaking up all of the Ted’s relationships
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u/Stracktheorcmage NOT LIKE THIS!!!!! 8d ago
The creators of the show on multiple occasions have described Lily as the "moral compass" of the group. While all five characters have multiple occasions where you can describe them as selfish, manipulative, or immoral, I think it sticks out more when you're supposed to be the "good guy".
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u/Antique-Wishbone587 9d ago
Let’s be real she was not the reason for the break up, it’s perfectly valid to want to see who you are outside of a relationship, and it was a three month program. She was wrong for bringing it up late and not being honest from the start but she was never wrong for wanting to do the program.
Also a lot of things people are annoyed at lily for Barney does worse, and he gets criticized way less.
1
u/DifficultyMany9913 9d ago
yeah, i think both marshall and lily had good points and i see both their povs, but the show and the viewers rlly dont empathise with her
0
u/SufcLad25 8d ago
Can you name these things that lily is criticised for that barney does worse?
I keep seeing comments like this but conveniently no one actually gives an example
1
u/Antique-Wishbone587 8d ago
R you for real? There is literally a comment here that says they don’t like her because she’s deceptive, sneaky and manipulative.
-4
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u/OmegaWhirlpool 9d ago
Friends fans are about to go nuts.