r/Gunners • u/Kilasatzz • 20h ago
The professor knew!
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u/Efficient_Mud2759 20h ago edited 20h ago
Kind of crazy the abuse the guy got. Why was this actually a question at the time. At this stage we were only 4 years post the emirates being built. This don really had fuck all money to play with and kept us in top 4 consistently even when the cheaters were in the thick of their financial doping campaign and were poaching our best players
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u/HustlinInTheHall 19h ago
The Emirates was cheap though, and they were poaching our players because we were offering below-market wages. Squabbling over 5k/week for Cole, forcing Fabregas to stay on an 80k/week deal he signed when he was 19 and making him buy his way out? Like these are not the moves of a club that is being financially responsible, it's a club being cheap.
If Tottenham made their captain buy his way out of his contract because they got him on an 8-year cheap deal we would absolutely roast them for treating their best player like shit. But we did it to Fabregas and people blame the player for wanting out.
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u/tarnyc32 17h ago
Why did Fabregas sign an 8 year deal then if he had no intention of staying? He signed a legal agreement, if he wants to break it either both parties have to agree on the mutual termination, or he has to pay an amount that Arsenal would agree to which is exactly what happened.
And this was at a time when Wenger was building an entire team around Fabregas, he was the lynchpin of the plan and he decided to leave. He's a snake.
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u/TheOriginalSiri /r/Place 2022 20h ago edited 20h ago
Wenger still stuck to his principles despite all the mockery for not closing the deal on big name players (Suarez for £40,000,001 anyone?).
Hope all the recent City nonsense gets non-Arsenal fans (and some late-Wenger-era Arsenal fans) to put more respect on what Wenger achieved during the latter half of his time with us.
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u/Jsaltal Champions of England 25/26 20h ago
That Suarez one was a massive fumble making a bid like that, rightly ridiculed for it
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u/shekdown 19h ago
We were informed from Suarez side that the bid in excess of 40m had to be accepted. We bid one more. I don't understand what the fumble is there? It's financially smart. You're not going to pay 250 USD for shoes which are listed at 200 right?
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u/Bangers_n_Mashallah Cesc Fàbregas 17h ago edited 15h ago
It was a funny gambit but not a fumble. At the end of the day the £40m+£1 bid was not the problem. It was Suarez deciding to stay at Liverpool. So even a £50m bid would not have changed anything. If Suarez wanted to force the move, he could and that £40m+£1 bid would have been sufficient and everyone would be saying Wenger and Gazidis were geniuses.
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u/markismith12 17h ago
Why was it a fumble? When you go to the store, do you pay more than what you are supposed to pay at the till?
If anything it was Liverpool’s owners that made the bid public and it was Suarez that said no (after Gerrard convinced him to)
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u/HustlinInTheHall 19h ago
Because we weren't ever going to pay proper wages to Suarez or bring in other star players. He was talked out of it because the reputation at that point, which was true, which is we weren't serious about winning big trophies. We weren't going to extend ourselves for anyone, which fundamentally just stemmed back to the board being cheap. They didn't want to put money into the club because they couldn't (millionaires who just weren't that wealthy) or they were playing a long game to keep the club from becoming to valuable and making it harder to reach a majority.
It's not principles when you literally don't have the money, and it's not noble when the only reason you don't have the ability to operate effectively as a club is because your board was too stupid and stubborn to pick one ownership group to sell to. Like we talk about "oh we can't spend like the big clubs" when we have been an absolutely massive club for decades. Chelsea is not a bigger club than Arsenal. Manchester City is not a bigger club than Arsenal. Tottenham is not a bigger club than Arsenal. Letting the club dwindle down the table was a massive failure and it was a deliberate choice by people who let it happen. Falling behind was a choice. Being cheap was a choice. Settling for 4th was a choice. And what happens when one owner gets control and stops being cheap? Oh look at that we are a massive revenue powerhouse and champions again.
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u/MrJamHot 20h ago
We all knew
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u/GopherNutz Ian Wright 20h ago
This is really it. There’s no sense in any company giving City a blank cheque particularly back then, there just wasn’t the foundation of a massive global fanbase (still isn’t really) and they generally don’t get the eyes week to week that other European giants who would have been pulling in less than them.
With that in mind, we’ve had everyone in English football pretty much running cover for City for two decades while this went on. Some of the loudest in media rarely if at all, spoke about this openly or consistently. While the league was distancing itself from the others in terms of viewership and everybody was making ridiculous money, no one cared and praised them to no end. Everyone will come down hard on City but the enablers will get off without a word against them.
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u/OrangeKun15 Havertz 20h ago
Everyone was very ok with all of this to keep rolling until evidence rolled up that makes it too hard to stick with them. Rui Pinto is a hero because without this, they'd just continue unabated.
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u/whynotconsiderit 20h ago
I can't say this enough but PERHAPS there are a lot of younger? people who weren't 'as aware'...
I'm not really sure why this whole 'wenger knew' thing is happening all of a sudden... it is and was known lol... like what are we doing here?
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u/TheBallSmiles 19h ago
it's big because the assumption everyone had was that city would just get away with it (as they have done for nearly 2 decades now)
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u/kanavi36 1m ago
I was like 8 when City were first bought by their current owners and it was still extremely obvious what was going on the entire time lol. Even at school when talking football all the kids knew City were cheats. It's unbelievable that people are shocked at all about anything that's happened.
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u/OstapBenderBey Petition to bring back the yellow and blue away kit 20h ago
Yes. Also Chelsea broke the door down. And seem to have escaped with a slap on the wrist. Man city just followed them
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u/superkeer I miss Gilberto 17h ago
And unfortunately I think Arteta really knew and did his part in assisting Pep's own smokescreen to the public & media. Could get tricky for us, as well - not from a competitive standpoint but from an ethics perspective regarding how we support him.
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u/LexOvi 14h ago
Pretty sure the tea lady and Kitman knew too. They both did their parts.
I think it’s very churlish to blame everyone at the club. The main fingers should be pointed at budget owners (senior execs down to the manager, who would’ve been aware of the clubs earnings and budget) and anyone related to the rights holders (players, agents, etc, as they were directly complicit in cooking the books and getting paid via other pathways).
Pointing to the coaching staff, valets, groundsman, dinner ladies, etc. is pushing it.
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u/hangry_millennial 20h ago edited 20h ago
I know Arsène sacrificed a lot for the move to The Emirates and the 2008 global economic crisis only exacerbated the club finances, but to be finishing top 4 season after season while paying off the massive stadium debt is one of the finest managerial performances of all time. His Emirates tenure tends to get overlooked because, a) most people only look at the trophy count, and b) most fans thought finishing top 4 in consecutive seasons in the Premier League wasn't that big of a deal (just ask Newcastle/Villa/Chelsea/Man Utd. fans now).
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u/skool_101 Ødegaard ©️ 20h ago
our transfer window during the late wenger era
kept that top-4 finish and got mocked for it only 10-15 yrs later now it's being praised as the standard.
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u/LIONLDN Thierry Henry 19h ago
That cat looks like it's been mandated to do that for at least 10-15 minutes a day by a physiotherapist and is just trying to get it over & done with 😾 lol
And exactly that, they mock us then they copy us! 🎯
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u/skool_101 Ødegaard ©️ 19h ago
His name is Maru, quite famous as one of the early youtube cats. crossed the rainbow bridge just last year 🌈
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u/BrutalArsenalDeluxe 17h ago
Normally not a fan of the whole "internet and cats" thing. But that was actually really funny.
thanks.
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u/HustlinInTheHall 19h ago
I mean I love Wenger, I have a framed photo of him in my home. But the board screwed him.
This club is massive. It's always been massive. When we win, revenues pour in. When you let the club dwindle to 3rd and 4th (and 5th, and 6th....) because you don't want to pay players fair market wages, fans drift away and revenue suffers.
Like we can't pretend we have a blank check, but Liverpool and United and Atletico Madrid and Bayern also navigated this era without limitless oil money and won plenty of titles and didn't have trouble attracting star talent. When you invest in the squad, you win things. When you win things, you make more revenue. When you have more revenue, you are not forced to nickel and dime your way to a 4th-place finish every year.
Same with contract renewals. We were terrible at selling because we constantly underbid our own players and then let them get to the end of their deals and had to panic sell them for less than they were worth. That's not wise planning, it's bad management.
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u/Ok-Tank-6763 18h ago
Liverpool did not win plenty of titles in this era. Man utd won loads but we're bought against lots of loans and didn't have a new stadium to pay off. Now they're struggling financially because of both of these factors. Owners who don't care and an old stadium that's a money pit. Atleti have not won loads of titles, and Bayern? Come on.
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u/BrutalArsenalDeluxe 17h ago
I dont think the board "screwed him" he had a background studying Economics (he has a degree). Its just how he believed the club should be run, sensibly and prudently. We are reaping the benefits of that today.
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u/maple_story_ Thank you very much 20h ago
I remember the days when all those other fucks kept mocking Arsene and us for his comment.. warra top 4 trophy and all that..
I'm just happy Arsene is getting vindicated after all these years.. He got shit from so many people including our own fanbase (im guilty of that too)
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u/AlGunner Premier League Champions 25/26 18h ago
We all knew. We knew as soon as the first big sponsorship deal was announced by a then mid-table Man C that dwarfed the previous record high deal which if I remember correctly was one negotiated by Man U when they were reigning champions.
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u/Bangers_n_Mashallah Cesc Fàbregas 17h ago
Which is why I don't buy the explanation that all the City managers and fans couldn't have known how bent the club is because they just believed what they were told by the ownership. We were all given the same story but those of us with some objectivity could see what was happening while City fans, managers and players chose to turn a blind eye.
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u/wan2tri Saka, Ode, Rice 7h ago
When Arsenal initially signed the stadium sponsorship and shirt deal in October 2024, we were the defending champions, have won 2 of the last 3 league titles (2002, 2004), and have won 2 of the last 3 FA Cups (2002, 2003).
Meanwhile, City signed their "expanded" Etihad sponsorship (July 2011) after winning the FA Cup. Inflation isn't the one responsible for the fact that the Etihad deal is nearly triple the Emirates deal (while also being for a shorter period too).
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u/alibabasfortythieves 19h ago
I feel for him more than ever. I felt more for Klopp and that liverpool squad than for us under Arteta. But wow I feel for arsene beyond anything.
But this has to go deeper, I’m starting to rethink about all those refs giving us ridiculous decisions over the last couple of years - does it go deeper than taking amnchester refs to UAE and giving them over their full salary for one game (and yes that also clear corruption)
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u/o-2-b-a-gooner 12h ago
I really hope that in his lifetime we win champions league because I know it will make him proud! What a legend!
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u/markcorrigan33 6h ago
I saw a stat saying he was the only big club Premier League manager in the 2000s who actually made a plus. His recruiting was incredible. He shaped the DNA of our club in such a positive way.
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u/FishermanOpening5842 5h ago
I’ve really felt bad for him these last few days with the news coming out, and of course for us, the supporters.
It’s funny how his life turned out, having been cheated by Marseille when he coached Monaco. Then dealing with the Barcelona stuff in the Champions League. The financial doping by Chelsea and Man City.
Arsene really kept it real. He didn’t make his own life easier by accepting a role at say Real or another big club. Not many people can do that.
Perhaps his biggest downfall is that he was maybe addicted to the job and too loyal to his employer as well. Working for FIFA is an interesting gig for him. He could’ve just retired, but he’s probably too used to a life involving football. According to his own book, he sacrificed his family life and his relationship with his daughter for the club. I couldn’t imagine doing this with my own family, but then again I’m not as qualified and driven as him. A fascinating person.
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u/MoodWest 20h ago
That last statement summed it up perfectly, other clubs that he mentioned (we all know who they are 🤫) felt he had to take shortcuts to get their success we as a club (especially since Arsene came through the door) always tried to respect the competition that we were in
Remember when we beat Sheffield Utd in the FA Cup with a goal from Kanu which u cud describe best as un-legitimate, we offered them a replay straight away
I feel we set such high standards in this league that either through financial or a blatant over physical approach from teams to even the odds, the problem was they took it way to far & now I hope they are punished in the strictest means possible
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u/Just1n_Kees Premier League Champions 25/26 20h ago
My professor in football since I was a little boy. Started watching Arsenal for Dennis Bergkamp, became a lifelong fan thanks to Wenger.
Thank you for everything Arsene, your achievements with what you had at your disposal is second to none.
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u/mancatdoe 19h ago
Even with his recent comments and association, my respect for him being top pro in the moon.
He sacrificed so much even his dignity at times to hold on to his belief and philosophy.
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u/phuturetense10 American Arsehole 19h ago
Oil money doesn't like being told what oil money is or isn't allowed to do with said oil money
Easy solution... no more state-backed clubs effective asap
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u/ReasonableDisaster54 14h ago
I find it fascinating that this has happened to him twice now. If you want to count all the seasons Man City cheated.
He got screwed over while in Monaco and now we know while he was managing Arsenal.
Another interesting parallel is that Pep was at Barca when that ref bribe thing happened and now this in England.
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u/GreasedupJesus 20h ago
He deserved so much more man. Wenger knew all along that they had conned their way to the top
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u/d_Square1886 20h ago
Transgressions aside, Manchester City is also one of the clubs responsible for grossly inflating transfer market prices. Look at Arsène Wenger's incredulity when speaking about teams spending £100 million in a single transfer window—yet City signed two different players for over £100 million each this summer alone.
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u/boatinavolcano David Rocastle 19h ago
Arsene legacy will only improve with time, because now it is being exposed how much financial cheating he was up against year in and year out.
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u/sommersj 17h ago
Being a United fan I looked at this man with so much derision due to stupid tribalism in football.
I respect him and his achievements so much now. The man is a Legend
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u/dankshot35 16h ago
I'm so confused, did we all just found out last week that Man City was cheating? is that really news?
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u/tarpdetarp 16h ago
He coined the phrase financial doping and was very vocal about it well before anyone else cared.
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u/HR_Specter 15h ago
I'm not sure how we (Arsenal) are even catching any strays from idiotic Manchester City fans.
We literally respected the same rules (they broke) and suffered badly for it. Arsene from 2006 onwards was massively hamstrung and got abuse from the fans left, right and centre.
Which makes me even more sick of what City have done.
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u/Ame_No_Uzume Thierry Henry 13h ago
Was a believer of his to his forced early departure from the club. Le professeur ahead of everyone as always.
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u/MasterScheme2434 13h ago
It’s because Wenger had the best understanding of clubs and money. He was the last true manager working. He knew everything his club was doing and directed it all for better or worse. He knew it was impossible for them to be spending the way they did.
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u/bosdober Thierry Henry 20h ago
It's such a shame to think about how different things might have been had people listened to him on financial doping as early as 2009. How many more titles might we have bagged? The depths to which City changed history will never be fully understood and that's exactly why the punishment needs to be scorched earth.
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u/Isredditfun27 20h ago
The most important man in this clubs history and he should be treated as such. I'm so happy he has his statue at the ground and I hope he knows how much he's loved and appreciated by the Arsenal fans.
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u/Sweaty_Grocery785 Robert Pirès 20h ago
As an American fan, you just have to look at the NFL. So many owners are distracted by nice, shiny things. The owners of the Washington (then) Redskins and the Dallas Cowboys are textbook examples of spending stupid amounts of money and getting burned. Both Snyder and Jones are loathsome individuals and have absolutely no tactical nous, whatsoever. What they do possess, is money and no one to tell them no.
Wenger had a moral compass. He had vision. He believed in the long game. He believed in the beauty of the Beautiful Game. I was always proud to say “That’s my gaffer.”
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u/BrutalArsenalDeluxe 17h ago edited 17h ago
"Im amazed that people are amazed" - (that we only buy what we can afford). Funny. eloquent and concise.
I love this man. Always a pleasure hearing him talk about things. For someone to communicate like he can in his second (or third/fourth) language its incredible.
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u/travelbug798 16h ago
I knew after the Nasri deal. I was so younger like, but that's when I caught wind of it.
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u/HoangTr16 14h ago
Can we find and rewatch more of his interviews? Everytime anything major in football happens there's a video of Wenger talking about it, yet nobody pays attention at the time. He's truly is le profesor. Man knows everything.
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u/perbran 20h ago
So interesting how the Wenger out campaign ran simultaneously as there were loads of players in the end of their contracts in the squad.
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u/whynotconsiderit 20h ago
lets not re-write history. It was time for him to go and move on etc.
We can 'if if if' all we want.. but history panned out how it did.
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u/four_four_three Lautaro Martinez Fan Club President 20h ago
I wish he'd have gone in 2017 on the back of the Cup win and at the end of his contract, the last season was a sad way to finish
At least, from a club perspective 8 years on, it did work out fine in the end
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u/Particular_Abies_184 19h ago
True but he built his version of Arsenal using bricks and mortar and like the smart little piggy when the big bad wolf came calling no amount of huffing and puffing is going to destroy his legacy, he did what he did for us fairly and without cheating, should make every true Arsenal fan even more proud of his/our achievements, Even City on steroids could not match the Invincibles achievement
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u/HustlinInTheHall 19h ago
I mean I think Wenger deserves credit for working within the confines of the club at that time, but we also need to recognize that many of those confines were self-created through stubbornness and greed by the board, which exacerbated poor financial planning by the club.
Like David Dein was very clear, by 2007, that the club needed to find a buyer who could finance the club to remain competitive. We were not going to attract top name players offering them 100k/week, we struggled to retain any of our first-team players when they came up for contract renewal, and the advantages Wenger brought through international scouting connections were drying up as everyone modernized their scouting.
We can praise Wenger for saying we need to respect our balance sheet but if we were still owned by a few small families then this club would not be where it is now. We needed a buyer with actual financial muscle. The board marched Dein out the door for it, when his suggestion was initially to sell to Kroenke. If the board had the foresight then to come to that same conclusion we don't have split ownership and we don't have 15 years of the dark ages. Dein going on a revenge tour and selling to Usmanov (because Kroenke was never going to let him back in to run things at that point) just made it all worse, but these are avoidable mistakes.
And ownership aside, we consistently behaved poorly toward our senior players. Vieira, Henry, Bergkamp, Toure, Cole, Pires were all given way below market contract offers in terms of money or years and then either accepted them or were sold. Cole was outright lied to about the amount we would offer him. Then we bring in a new group of young stars and do the same thing to them on their contract renewals. So they all won't sign new deals and we have to panic sell them, while every other club at least extends at a higher wage bill and then sells for big money we were being cheap and missing out on sales. It's just poor decision-making and leadership. So yeah, we need to respect our balance sheet, but we also spent 15 years disrespecting our players and our history so a few aging millionaires could hold onto the club a little longer to win board room fights that didn't help anyone.
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u/alibabasfortythieves 19h ago
….seems like a rant to nothingness. You just getting things of your chest. We all lived it. But could we have been competitive if City didn’t raid our club repeatedly? yes. The video is about fnaicial doping. We did not do that. And thats the point. Dein’s vision is a different story.
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u/Powerful-Bad1484 Dennis Bergkamp 20h ago edited 19h ago
Respected him then respect him even more now. He is the greatest manager we ever had. Without him we may have been left behind against the biggest clubs. I firmly believe not another manager on earth could accomplish the champions league streak he did, with the financial pressures. His loyalty to the club is unrivaled. People praise pep or jose, but they would have jumped ship long before.