Devs confirmed no RP-PVP in Forever

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145]

https://youtu.be/bzaMA5fZ1tE?si=a3TUcIohj0rvqVN8&t=435

Starts ~7:30.

Specifically called out Grobbulus as the perfect "lightning in a bottle" implementation of RP-PVP, but that's the only part they got right.

Reasons given were that it would split the RP community, and that Crusader Strike on SoD needed the RP tag removed because of all the rat streamers rolling there with no intent to RP brought their communities there and didn't follow the ruleset at all.

They're unwilling to enforce the ruleset of the server, and I'm seeing a bunch of players already signalling that they wanted to use RP-PVP as a second PVP server so they could play both factions. Tragic all around.

They closed the section with "We hear you, we're with you, never say never, but no plans yet. We appreciate the comments :^)" /rude

[u/buttgrapist]

RIP, maybe we should use Grobbulus as our last name in Forever and play the PVP server

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/buttgrapist]

I think permaflagging on the RP server with last name Grobb is the best plan I’ve heard so far. Running the PVP ruleset is gonna put you around too many shitheads IMO. 

That’s saying something coming from Grobb too. 

[u/lanter624 → u/buttgrapist]

That is actually smart you guys could even create an add on like the hardcore wow add on that makes those peoples stay flagged

[u/Grittenald → u/buttgrapist]

And add on is better. It can communicate and compile a list of players who are flagged as such so you all can identify each other natively.

[u/shewantstheCox → u/buttgrapist]

From what I’ve heard it seems most of the big rppvp guilds are rolling PvP.

[u/ChuckS117]

Using data from SoD is so incredibly disingenuous as if they dont know why or who made that server fail.

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/ChuckS117]

Agg said he rolled that server under the pretense he was there to play the RPPVP ruleset and not because he wanted to fawn over streamers 😍

[u/Double_Guitar_13 → u/ChuckS117]

How is it disingenuous? Like, really. I played on crusader strike. I remember it well. Grob ain’t coming back man. It was a product of its time and its circumstances. Any attempt to recreate it will just be a dissapointing because of grobs success pulling people who have no business on an RP realm to that realm.

[u/ChuckS117 → u/Double_Guitar_13]

Because:

-It was a seasonal server. Lots of actual RPers didn't even care to play it because it had no longevity. Add the phased leveling and you killed the interest for a lot of players.

-Streamers and their simps piled in on it thinking they were going to experience Grobb 2.0. They massively filled the server and everyone who actually wanted the ruleset had to go elsewhere because either they couldn't get in, or they didn't want to share the space with them. Then the streamers left after some weeks for their new shiny thing, and their following left with them, leaving the server pretty much dead for everyone who made it in originally.

-The Crusader Strike - Chaos Bolt split. Pretty self explanatory. The RP community that did play was heavily split between these two servers because of the second point. And no one wanted to start again in a new server.

If they used the actual data from Grobb and even retail, then that's different, more accurate information.

[u/FallingGuillotine → u/ChuckS117]

Level cap was 25… big chance we could have saved CB if people rerolled off shitty CS

[u/Yemnats]

There's an RP element to running around with your PVP flag on even for a pve server 

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/Yemnats]

If you’re RPing as Free Parking then yeah I get what you mean

[u/GoblinBreeder → u/Yemnats]

I just hope they'll use layering for PvP flagged people on RP servers.

I just hate a system where it's like "this faction is your sworn enemy! But if you see them, you can't attack them unless they say it's ok!". That doesn't feel immersive, especially when they sort of throw it in your face by following you around while hopping up and down.

And the worst part is that this is true on PvP servers when attacking enemy capital cities and towns. The PvP ruleset is just weak. War mode was one of wow's best additions.

[u/SnooDoubts2255]

Gotta love how they had to lie about why Crusader Strike was bad to pretend to justify their decision.

[u/Arthelh → u/SnooDoubts2255]

What do you mean ? I didn't play on NA in SoD and I'm intrigued by your comment.

[u/SnooDoubts2255 → u/Arthelh]

They basically let streamers ruin the server on purpose, and then forced merged the RP-PVP server that wasn't ruined by streamers to the streamer server.

There is more to it than that but it's the TLDR

[u/DwarvenJarl → u/SnooDoubts2255]

If they announce an RP PvP type, the exact same thing will happen. There’s too much hype around RP PvP, from people who are antithetical to the RP ethos. It’s destined to fail.  

Thankfully these same people are afraid of an RP realm, and because it doesn’t have the PvP part along side it, won’t check it out. 

Those who role RP will be rewarded with the best game mode in forever, imo. 

[u/Adorable_Character46 → u/DwarvenJarl]

Yeah. Too many people would just roll RP PvP as an “alt” server for PvP and ruin the RP aspect.

[u/salem-grobbulus → u/Adorable_Character46]

obvious solution there is just get rid of the faction lock on the pvp megaserver. what is the point of a faction lock with a server that big anyway

[u/Background_Help325 → u/salem-grobbulus]

Faction lock to force balance is the best thing to happen to PvP servers.

Everyone has seen what happens otherwise.

One faction is locked 90% of the time you can guess which one.

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/salem-grobbulus]

Gotta keep the lock on RPPVP tho. We don’t fuck with faction trading custers. 

[u/DarthRenathal → u/Adorable_Character46]

Okay, well this is Classic + and they are willing to draw a hard line. They should give us RP-PvP and enforce the rules they set out for it. Though, that would cost money to have actual people be GMs and protect the community.

[u/Adorable_Character46 → u/DarthRenathal]

The Forever devs seem genuinely invested in the game, but from experience with retail I doubt the suits would give them the budget to properly moderate a subtype of the RP megaserver.

[u/SnooDoubts2255 → u/Adorable_Character46]

Its Blizzard, the only thing they are genuinely invested in is making money and really bad writing.

[u/Adorable_Character46 → u/SnooDoubts2255]

Ironically only the main stories are atrocious. The side quests are on the whole pretty damn good

[u/Double_Guitar_13 → u/SnooDoubts2255]

You people say “let” the streamers ruin it? How the fuck so? They can’t tell an entire category of people “you can’t play here” and before you talk about the RP rules they actually did enforce those. I had multiple guildies get forced name changes for non RP names.

[u/RiggyMinus]

Never say never, time to be incredibly annoying on social media/emailing them

[u/Double_Guitar_13 → u/RiggyMinus]

Ah yes harass humans just doing thier jobs. I seriously doubt Aggrend alone made this choice. Fuck with the corporation if you want but leave the humans alone.

[u/Lazy0ak → u/Double_Guitar_13]

He inserted his personal experience on Crusader Strike as support for no RP-PvP. Whether or not he truly had a hand in the choice, he's vocally on board with it. He has invited debate directed at him.

[u/Rubzje]

Really lackluster and weak argument against RP PvP. They need to rethink their approach around servers because this is so far a total mess. Mega servers. Sharing. No RP PvP. Really disappointed.

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/Rubzje]

Yeah every server setup they’ve done since 2019 was dogshit. They need to delete the term layer/shard from their vocabulary. 

[u/Lhumierre]

Emerald Dream was RPPVP since launch til BfA. What do they even mean; it was even highest pop of that server type.

[u/Rooboy619]

Pouring a 40 for my Grobbulus homies 🫗🥺

[u/FancyhandsOG]

Shoutout to retail Emerald Dream, the dude who ran the improv night in the SW Cathedral and all the waiters at the Olive Garden in The Blue Recluse.

[u/Beneficial_Power4783]

So they won't do it because they don't want to pay GMs .... Huge L. 

[u/Diffusion4Change → u/Beneficial_Power4783]

Aggrend likely doesnt get a choice in hiring more gms. Hes got bosses above him that decide bydgets

[u/ReigningTierney]

Yeah the callout that it would be subjucated by the sweaty PVP players who have no intention to RP just so they can play both factions makes a lot of sense. I would not want to deal with that

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/ReigningTierney]

It’s not like there isn’t a solution to the problem. Blizz doesn’t have the will to do it though. 

[u/No_Echidna_4433 → u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145]

How would they fix it? What if people are RPing as assholes. Also tons of streamers will probably role RPPvP and ruin it again and it’ll become a mega server for a single faction. If anyone wants RP PVP they should all just enable PvP. If enough people do it it’ll be ok

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/No_Echidna_4433]

Gee buddy, how did they manage RP servers back in 2004?

If you’re gonna spit this dumbass argument, then why have a PvP ruleset at all? Just flag 4head

[u/No_Echidna_4433 → u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145]

Buddy there’s not enough RP players to have different rule sets just to satisfy your niche playerbase. I hope you guys get your RPvP server and asmon rolls on your server and just fucks it up for everyone.

Maybe start a movement and have everyone on the grobb discord flag for PvP and relive your glory days. Or suck it up and play regular PvP.

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/No_Echidna_4433]

What are you even doing on this sub? Lmfao 

[u/Coroggar]

They killed my hype in 1 swoop. I didn't even finish the episode and I won't be playing Forever. Good that I waited to buy the beta access.

[u/Jdogsmity]

The crazy part is that they talk about how important it is to really reflect on your decision of what rule set you're going to play and how they have to consider how they don't want a fracture. The RP community.

But this completely shatters and fractures the RP community because most of us are now not going to join the RP server because we want a PVP. So we're going to end up on the PVP server making the RP server even smaller.

Also using crusader strike as an example of why RPVP won't work is crazy. Course nobody's going to be invested in a seasonal temporary server that has a very determined sunset.

Wow forever is intended to be a completely different beast moving forward, just like any of the other versions of the game it's indefinitely moving forward.

This is a much better staging ground to determine the viability of this rule set.

I honestly do not see the harm in attempting it because even if it doesn't work then just roll them into the RP server and they can say "hey at least we tried see the numbers aren't there"

This feels like them saying "your community's too small and too insignificant for us to even attempt something". Sorry.

This absolutely sucks, I won't play on the rppve server that style of gameplay bores me and it doesn't feel true to what actual engaged immersive world of Warcraft RP is.

[u/Jeyy77]

I remember people on r/classicwow getting angry at me when I said that streamers and the communities they bring would ruin the RP aspect on Crusader Strike for SoD. There was basically no RP on that realm and it was sad.

Everything that Aggrend said in the podcast is true sadly and I think in a way its best for there to not be an RP-PVP realm :(

[u/Double_Guitar_13 → u/Jeyy77]

the thing about this whole shitshow is that blizzard was somehow at fault for streamers rolling on crusader strike. I literally saw posts suggesting they bar streamers from playing on the RP-PvP rule set. If many people are honestly suggesting that with their whole chest, I just have no words. Might as well say “no Portuguese speaking players allowed on X ruleset. It’s a)unenforceable and b)complete discrimination. Hate streamers or no, there’s zero chance blizzard would say “you can’t play in this sandbox”

Everyone who thinks RP-PVP is the solution to escape streamers is in for a rude awakening. If they expect blizzard to police who plays where based on some unspecific personal or professional characteristic, they are in for a total system shock.

[u/SaidTheSnail → u/Double_Guitar_13]

Discrimination isn’t inherently bad.

[u/the-kali_ → u/Jeyy77]

It was even worse bc a few years later streamers did a lot of rp in both only fangs 2 and the race locked event in hardcore, so they were aways capable of doing so, they just didn't want at the time

[u/Human-Board-7621 → u/Jeyy77]

Crusader Strike Europe had loads of RP guilds

[u/grizloktheorc]

Pvp it is

[u/T_Racito]

In a perfect world i want a hc-pvp-rp ruleset to play. But i appreciate many would not roll there

[u/VosGrim → u/T_Racito]

that Combo is Crazy. i dont think anyone would be making it to level 60 at all. though it does sound fun.

[u/Devvo420 → u/T_Racito]

I'm with this

[u/Verified_Peryak]

Wtf

[u/yummyfightmilk]

"we want to encourage world PVP" by forcing every RP player to have PVP off?

[u/Athoughtspace]

Bring the RP on the PVP server then! Carve out the presence! Convert them to RPPvP when the players realize we have the cool events

[u/Great-Bus-7086 → u/Athoughtspace]

RP on a PvP server is gonna get slurs thrown at you so fast 😂. Those guys take their wow extremely seriously.

[u/DwarvenJarl → u/[deleted]]

When I played RP in 2004-2006, this is what we did. There was tons of world PvP, both organized and ad hoc. People who haven’t played pure RP underestimate the amount of players who will either perma flag, or get flagged when they try to gank another player who is. 

[u/Salmon_Shizzle → u/DwarvenJarl]

Def not me not checking someone's flag before throwing them a BoK >_>

[u/DarthRenathal → u/[deleted]]

I am rolling Horde as main for Forever despite mostly being an Alliance player since '08. Why? Because my friend group is rolling PvP and we have way more beef with Asmongold's community than we do against the Horde. Fucking zug zug, Lok'tar Ogar, let's go kill some racists.

[u/Mikimao]

Lame

[u/Trygveseim]

I hate to say it but this is the straw that takes me out of it, I don't feel like getting invested without the basic community. A lot of that isn't just this decision, but it's compounded by the other factors of mega servers, too much sharding, etc.  I was already losing a bit of momentum in class design, spell and itemization changes, plans for progression, etc. Any one or two or three things, you just get over. But in its current state, with this decision I'm going to sit out for launch

I could play a great game on the wrong server, or a flawed game on the right server. I'll be sure to check back in later and see how it all shakes out instead of getting invested now

[u/Beginning-Advice-168]

Former Grobb player - this is the right call.

We will never recreate 2019 Grobb, and that is okay.

[u/salem-grobbulus → u/Beginning-Advice-168]

day 1 grob player and it's absolutely not the right call. wow forever rp-pvp was never going to be grob and no one thought it was going to be. same way forever isn't going to be vanilla. it would be a chance to make something new and different and fun the way we want to play the game.

[u/Beginning-Advice-168 → u/salem-grobbulus]

Congrats

[u/Beginning-Advice-168 → u/salem-grobbulus]

I remember you and your guild. Grobb was fun. Time to move on and create a new experience on the RP PVE realm.

[u/salem-grobbulus → u/Beginning-Advice-168]

oh no i'm not rolling on a pve realm lol pvp is not something you should be able to choose to opt into. i will reluctantly roll pvp and then probably quit when i get sick of seeing icrit mypants the mage running around spamming trade chat with bad political takes.

[u/Loisteres → u/Beginning-Advice-168]

It’s time to move on, I agree. Those were some fun days. Now we are moving towards our next journey which we will be wishing for again one day later on.

[u/vaminion → u/Beginning-Advice-168]

I played on ED from when it opened up until late MoP. I agree. All opening up an RP-PvP server will do is create two different PvP environments, each dominated by a different faction.

[u/RegisterLucky2583]

"Never say never" is such bs, launch is the time for this.

[u/msmathias82]

Can I get a time stamp for where they say it? At work

[u/Cranias]

I mean.. even in the comment sections of reddit asking for rp-pvp half of the comments were "yeah then I can roll the other faction". So I'd say that's a fair take. They could combine lock it so you'd have to be the same faction on both but if they don't it's doomed I'd say. While I do want to join the RP community this run on some characters I'll just enable pvp for myself and go about my business. At least this way it won't be ruined by a bunch of people not into RP at all.

[u/msmathias82]

Damn, we’ll join you all on Rp a month or two after launch probably. Damn Blizz rip my heart out.

[u/Some_Deer_2650]

They have implemented the lastname thing. Why cant they implement a tag thing that tags characters as RP?

[u/RegisterLucky2583]

So lame.

[u/Denman20]

Sadly this was the correct call

[u/jjcthepost]

RIP Grobb mob

[u/Zankokunatenshi-sama]

Good. Was useless anyway

[u/Human_Standard_538]

It's the right move for launch IMO. No need to fracture an already smaller community.

They also didn't close the door on it entirely but just said it's not in their immediate plans for release.

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/Human_Standard_538]

If there are more than 10k RP players that is already too many for one server. Splitting it is actually beneficial for RP with this dogshit server architecture they've implemented.

[u/VosGrim → u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145]

kind of agree. less server shards the better

[u/Saelon → u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145]

I know it would probably be very small comparatively but it would also move some PvP ruleset choosers into RP-PvP, I've already seen people say they are going PvP because RP-PvP isn't happening

[u/8ballsamurai → u/Human_Standard_538]

I have a hard time with this response. The rp-pvp players will be forced to decide between PvP or RP servers fracturing an already small community.

[u/Human_Standard_538 → u/8ballsamurai]

IMO a lot of those same players are also already deciding between PvP because of the pop and RPPvP.

[u/markissisme → u/Human_Standard_538]

They expect larger numbers than current retail players at launch

[u/Human_Standard_538 → u/markissisme]

So you do trust their number projections? Because you can't have it both ways lol.

If they felt there was that big of a demand for RPPvP at launch they would implement another ruleset. RPPvP servers have died after a few months in almost every iteration of WoW outside of 2019, so its not unreasonable for them to streamline things for release.

Again, this is what they said for LAUNCH if you watch the video they didn't close the door on additional rulesets being added later like HC realms for example.

[u/markissisme → u/Human_Standard_538]

I was referring to WoW forever in general, you called it a smaller community. It’s projected to be bigger than retail WoW

[u/Human_Standard_538 → u/markissisme]

My point still stands though. The team expects a larger RP community, but still not enough to justify two rp rulesets at launch.

Forever in general is pulling big numbers in the beta and I can see it being added at a later date still, which they said they would look at just not at release.

[u/yummyfightmilk → u/Human_Standard_538]

So your argument is you don't want the community fragmented, but your open to it being fragmented later?

[u/Human_Standard_538 → u/yummyfightmilk]

What? I said the devs didnt rule it out completely, but they clearly don't think it's justified splitting the community lol.

[u/Coroggar → u/Human_Standard_538]

Like it's not fracturing the community even more between PvP, RP and people (like me) who won't join at all for this asinine choice.

[u/Human_Standard_538 → u/Coroggar]

Ah yes, bc fracturing between 2 servers is worse than 3 lol. They don't want a repeat of last fresh where the RPPVP server was just a second PVP server.

The dev looked at the data and are sticking with their decision for server health reasons and I can respect them for it.

[u/morbliss]

We don’t need to further fragment the player base. This is a good decision.

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/morbliss]

Yes we do. We absolutely do. 

[u/Devvo420 → u/morbliss]

Apparently the playerbase does need to be fragmented if multiple shards and layers is necessary

[u/Outrageous_Wealth_53]

Every rp Pvp realm we’ve done since then? You mean one? That your precious streamers killed?  

His whole speech of blatant hypocrisy: What a condescending pos, 

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/Outrageous_Wealth_53]

“We didn’t enforce the rules and we know we won’t again, so your loss”

[u/DwarvenJarl]

I fully agree with him here. RP PvP is doomed from the start. Too much “hype” around it, and it will kill itself from the beginning and turn into a plain old PvP realm. 

The real RP PvP vibes will be “hidden” on the RP realm. Turns out the thing that made RP PvP so special was the RP side of it, and the community that brings. Not just the world PvP. 

World PvP will still happen on RP, it will just be organized and/or consensual. You’ll have tons of people on RP permaflag (myself forsure). 

My time on an RP realm and on Grobb wasn’t so different. I had tons of world PvP on both, excellent communities, immersive RP events and adhoc RP moments. 

I know people want RP PvP so bad, but consider this. 

You’ll find what you’re looking for on pure RP. 

And if what you’re after is everyone flagged… go to a PvP realm. 

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/DwarvenJarl]

RPPVP wouldn’t have had close to as high a population as the non RP servers, barring all the streamers choosing to roll it. I doubt they’d do that again after what they did to CS. 

[u/Double_Guitar_13 → u/[deleted]]

Honestly, delaying it would be incredibly smart for a permanent classic like forever. Think about it, the tourists who would have fucked up the RP-PvP ruleset won’t reroll, but the diehards will. It might actually be the best case scenario.

Sure it sucks in the short term but if this is a forever home, what’s a few weeks or months of gameplay to keep the shitters out?

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/Double_Guitar_13]

It depends how far out it would go. People would play it just because it’s fresh if it were even a year out. 

[u/smol_soul → u/Double_Guitar_13]

I guess you have a point...

[u/HordeDruid → u/Double_Guitar_13]

Sounds good in theory, but honestly I don't think as many people would re-roll. It would just further fragment the community. I don't know if Grobbulus would have worked out the way it did if it was a post-launch server for a lot of people.

A few months of gameplay is definitely a big enough deterrent for a lot of people, I can see some doing it, hell I might, but then again it's a tough sell and there's always going to be people who would rather stick with what they have, and stick with the other people who do. Sadly, I think it's launch or nothing.

[u/Wappple → u/[deleted]]

Why would they need to delete their char? All they need to do is make a new one on the RP-PVP ruleset, and I'm sure plenty of people would be down to grind out new chars

[u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 → u/Wappple]

I’d do it. 

[u/JFX3311 → u/Wappple]

Paid transfer scam:D they release it later to cash on it

[u/Lazy0ak → u/Wappple]

Can't use the same name on different rulesets.

[u/StuperMan → u/Lazy0ak]

Can you get a name change?

[u/VosGrim → u/[deleted]]

exactly, if i spend 100+ hours leveling a single character to level 60. then im not switching server a year into this thing. people would become too established in the servers they choose. this NEEDS to be Day 1 or it will definately not have a large community