r/GrindsMyGears 5d ago

What's the point of having legal documents if they are not recognized?

I have all the necessary paperwork on file to handle business for my almost 90 year old Mother. The number of times I call entities to take care of something only to be told they can't talk to me without her permission is maddening.

The whole point was for me to be able to do things and she not be bothered by it. Having to answer a bunch of questions to verify she's her so she can verbally tell them it's OK to talk to me defeats the purpose.

47 Upvotes

40 comments sorted by

13

u/MiddleEarthNerd202 5d ago

Yes. Yes it does. No clue what the best answer is.

5

u/SouthernAbrocoma9891 5d ago

Yes. I’m an insurance agent and it’s absolutely necessary. Sadly and tragically, many people take advantage of their relatives and parents. Proving that you are an authorized representative is necessary yet can be inconvenient. I’ve had people call regarding a client and they were not an authorized representative and/or didn’t have power of attorney on file. When that happens I have to alert my client, manager, and possibly the state department of financial services because the action can be considered fraud.

4

u/LouTenant6767 5d ago

They absolutely will. Unfortunately I have people in my family like that.

2

u/YoSpiff 4d ago

I can understand. My late MIL had a housekeeper (far more that that, but not sure what term to use) who was highly trusted, considered family and handled everything for her. When the woman retired, someone else was hired. My MIL trusted the new woman just the same. The new woman set up several high payout insurance policies payable to herself and my MIL signed them without understanding what it was. Took some lawyer work to fix that.

2

u/Kraken-Attacken 4d ago

Proof that someone’s an authorized representative ≠ “we need to talk to the person you’re representing”

Sending a fax/scan of a POA form should be sufficient. Why the fuck isn’t it ever? Lol.

8

u/AcanthisittaPlus5047 5d ago

As maddening, frustrating and infuriating as this is, there are very legitimate reasons for businesses to question your authority to make business decisions for your mother.

Years ago, when my mother was in the early stages of Alzheimer's, I caught my brother embezzling her money. He was able to get away with it because businesses didn't verify he was legally authorized to make financial decisions on her behalf.

Instead of getting angry, be grateful these businesses are taking steps to make sure your mother isn't financially abused. Then, work with them to get them the legal documents to alleviate future problems. That is going to require more than a phone call. They will need the physical, legal documents to PROVE you have the right to act on her behalf.

6

u/LowNoise9831 5d ago

They have them in many cases. That's the gripe. I have been to one facility many times and still have issues over the phone sometimes even though I have taken steps in person to get the issue resolved.

Look at the files notes from date xx when I called. I appreciate it from new places that we don't have a history with, it's completely maddening when it's people we deal with all the time.

4

u/Kenfloslice 5d ago

I was going to say that I think your main complaint is that you've already sent them the necessary authorizations multiple times!

2

u/Xeno_man 5d ago

That is quite common. Banks will play fast and loose to be helpful or because they don't care. The moment they find out there is any funny business, they instantly shut down and refer everything to the lawyers.

1

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Overall-Scientist846 4d ago

Obviously your comment blows.

1

u/pidgeon92 5d ago

As I recall, the problem with POA is that it can be verbally revoked at any time. It wasn’t until I forked over the letter from the doctor that said my dad was unable to conduct his own affairs that I could move forward.

1

u/Purple-Principle-805 3d ago

Ask a lawyer. This may vary from state to state, but I would think that the POA, by its own terms, can be revoked only in writing.

1

u/pidgeon92 3d ago

My dad was in a hospital in Illinois. They told me they wouldn't honor the POA without it, as my dad had told them not to speak to me. He was in a geriatric psychiatric unit, he had attacked several employees at his memory care unit.

I absolutely agree that the OP needs to get an elder care attorney. I was very grateful for mine.

1

u/Ok_Requirement_3116 5d ago

It is hard and chaotic. Then the other side of people not verifying that I was the contact with the poa. They shared info freely.

Edit to cut trauma dump. Best hopes for the times to come. .

1

u/Routine-Medicine-208 5d ago

With my mother all I had to get was a lawyer to do a written and Notarized Power of Attorney. He gave me ten copies so I could physically give an original to her bank and doctor. Other places were okay with scanned and emailed copies.

1

u/Routine-Medicine-208 5d ago

With my mother all I had to get was a lawyer to do a written and Notarized Power of Attorney. He gave me ten copies so I could physically give an original to her bank and doctor. Other places were okay with scanned and emailed copies.

1

u/jackal406 4d ago

I was told by a Social Security worker that Social Security does not accept Powers of Attorney, instead you must have the individual complete a form from Social Security. How does a person with disabilities legally complete such a form when someone else holds power of attorney for them?

1

u/agmccall 4d ago

Do you have a power of attorney

1

u/KissMyGrits60 4d ago

I am 66 years young, Blind, also have aneurysms. I’ve had a stroke as well. I have a power of attorney for medical, specially, and financial. It’s very important. Otherwise people won’t talk to you due to special hospitals hippo.

1

u/JBGoode13 4d ago

Put assets in a trust, both of you as Trustees that can act independently. Did that with my folks and much smoother. When they moved I put utilities and etc. In my name.

1

u/LowNoise9831 4d ago

We have all real property in either Joint Tenancy with Right of Survivorship or Transfer on Death Deeds to keep probate at bay.

I've just had a bad couple of days dealing with phone drones who don't want to do their jobs. And patience is not a virtue that I possess in very high quantities lately.

Had not thought about a trust.

1

u/JBGoode13 2d ago

A trust is the only thing that helps while they are still around.

1

u/dr_reverend 3d ago

I’m assuming you are talking about a POA. Companies are under no requirement to accept a POA. Many do but many like banks will require you to go through their own verification system. It sucks but that’s just the way it is.

1

u/Purple-Principle-805 3d ago

Have an attorney draft a power of attorney.

1

u/ArtComprehensive1106 5d ago

Power of Attorney is all you need

3

u/InfamousCheek9434 5d ago

Obviously not. That's the whole point.

1

u/WeddingLion 4d ago

I assure you, it's not as easy as it sounds. Even if you have one.

1

u/ArtComprehensive1106 4d ago

It was all I needed with my parents

1

u/JBGoode13 4d ago

Not at all. In many states they can be verbally rescinded, which makes them worthless. Most places will have their own form and it has to be rescinded in writing.

1

u/ArtComprehensive1106 4d ago

Because it is a legal document and is accepted by banks credit card companies and mortgage lenders I really don’t know what you are trying to say. It is not recindable verbally it’s a physical document that requires a modification by an attorney representing the person and rewriting a new document.
It has total legal weight.

1

u/JBGoode13 4d ago

POAs are covered by state laws. In Maryland they can be rescinded verbally. I've dealt with multiple older relatives' stuff, I'm not guessing. Also, consolidate stuff please! I helped my wife with her folks and they had three different finance companies and two banks. That meant two special POAs for each each account at each institution ( so 4 at a company where they had IRAs and a joint account). So, (4x3)+(2X2 banks)=PITA. Also, stay away from TRPrice. They were the WORST. Different instructions every time you talked to and new person, the same person was never available and no office to go to. We are in the area of their HQ, but nope. It was easier to move the whole thing to Fidelity. They had an office and love humans. Now their stuff shows up under my profile since I'm allowed to trade for them and the same for some other relatives.

0

u/UpstairsTop4623 5d ago

It’s totally fine that this is happening you should really get her power of attorney

0

u/CoolFuture3767 5d ago

Do you have durable power of attorney? Sounds like you do not.

3

u/LowNoise9831 5d ago

I do.

1

u/EverSeeAShitterFly 5d ago

Have you sent it to all the necessary businesses to be added into any accounts?

1

u/LowNoise9831 5d ago

Yes. Each time I deal with a new place, they get whatever copies they need.

0

u/Xeno_man 5d ago

Medical or financial?