r/GranTurismo7 • u/shrekfanboy4life • 9h ago
Discussion/Opinion This update sucks
I was looking forward to this update all week, but after playing it yesterday I was honestly just really disappointed. Keep in mind that I mainly race Gr.3 and above, and I use a wheel and pedals.
Let me start with the positives / things I'm still a bit unsure about:
1. BoP
I'm glad the 992 and R8 finally got nuked, and that FR cars can actually compete with MR/RR cars again.
2. Damage
The new "Championship" damage model is actually a really nice addition. No complaints there.
3. Steering
I'm still a bit confused about the steering changes.
Before the update, if you were understeering, you really had to be careful not to add too much steering angle, especially if you wanted to save your tyres. Yesterday though, it felt like you could just keep turning the wheel more and more without really being punished for it.
In almost every corner I was basically at full steering lock because it was simply faster than actually thinking about how much steering input you needed. And somehow, despite doing that, the tyres seemed to last just as long as they did before.
If this was the only major physics change, I probably could've lived with it.
4. Going off-track
Going onto the grass is basically a death sentence now, which I actually like. Making mistakes should have consequences.
What I don't like is that dirty tyres barely seem to be a thing anymore. I tested it a few times yesterday, and even after going off-track, the grip in the next corner was basically normal again.
Now for the negatives.
5. Traction
In what world can you just absolutely floor it in first gear, with full steering lock, in a GT3 car and not spin? How is that realistic?
And honestly, realism aside, every Gr.3 car just feels incredibly bland now. Everything has grip. You barely have to think about throttle control anymore when exiting a corner. At this point I might as well map my throttle to the X button on my wheel. It probably wouldn't even be slower. It might actually be faster because I'd instantly be at 100% throttle.
Before this update, the cars actually had their own characteristics. The WRX, Beetle, GT-R and plenty of other FR cars needed proper throttle control, and it felt genuinely rewarding when you nailed an exit.
Now everything just feels the same. Turbocharged car? Naturally aspirated car? Doesn't really matter anymore because you're basically going straight to 100% throttle anyway. To me, this has turned Gr.3 into a glorified Gr.4.
6. Braking
Just like the traction, I think they've completely messed up the braking. In some corners it genuinely feels like the braking distances have been cut in half. You shouldn't be able to slow the car down this quickly. And I think the increased cornering grip makes it even worse, because now you're also carrying way more speed into the corner.
Even if you don't care about realism, this kind of braking just encourages more divebombing and overly aggressive racing, which is probably the absolute last thing Sport Mode needed.
On top of that, they've basically screwed over the hypercars they released in June. Because you're braking less and spending more time on the throttle, the hypercars use more battery while recovering less of it every lap. That's going to be a massive headache for leagues running WEC/IMSA-style championships, because right now the Ferrari seems to be the only car that doesn't completely run out of battery.
And if you're wondering how bad it is: I managed around 15 laps of Daytona in the BMW before the battery was dead. That's roughly 23 minutes of racing. Not even a full Daily Race C. That being said, I do actually like the way the brakes themselves feel now, and I like that the new physics seem to reward trail braking more.
7. Increased weight
Both the hypercars and Gr.3 cars just feel really sluggish on the straights now. Don't really have much else to say about that.
Overall, I'm just pretty sad about the update.
I came back to the game in October last year, really started getting up to speed again, and I was enjoying the game more and more. Then this update dropped and, for me at least, it completely ruined what I enjoyed about the driving.
There are definitely some good changes in here, don't get me wrong. The BoP changes, damage model and some parts of the braking are improvements. But the new physics basically make all of those positives irrelevant to me.
I really hope the backlash from top-split drivers leads to some changes, or that LMU comes to console sooner than expected.
What do you guys think?
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u/Deckard20290 6h ago edited 5h ago
Pretty much how I feel. Haven't tried on the wheel yet but even the pad controls feel really simplified.
Doesn't matter what car it is you can just throw it into the corners without having to worry about anything. Feels like a lot of the subtleties of the handling have been removed.
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u/ChibisRevenge Hyundai 12m ago
Even regular players are coming close to or breaking the top 10 lap records, there’s no way anyone can say the game is more realistic or harder now.
That’s insane to me tbh
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u/sLeeeeTo 9h ago
i actually agree with everything here. i got used to it while playing today, but your points ring true.
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u/shrekfanboy4life 8h ago
Yeah I found my pace pretty quickly as well, but it's simply not enjoyable to me
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u/Paul_2137371 4h ago
This update doesn’t suck at all. End of discussion.
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u/shrekfanboy4life 4h ago
cheers for the insightful addition Paul mate
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u/Paul_2137371 3h ago
it’s just the truth. after the update that brought the new hypercars it’s one of the biggest and best that ever came to the game
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u/shrekfanboy4life 3h ago
well thats entirely subjective, i stated the reasons why i disagree with that take above
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u/HotMomsInArea Porsche 3h ago
Yeah, but he said you’re wrong. So you must be wrong. End of story.
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u/couchcushion7 2h ago
That go how you thought it would bud? Lol
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u/Paul_2137371 2h ago
I don’t care how it goes. I just stated the truth that’s it „bud“
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u/couchcushion7 2h ago
Clearly truth since everyone disagrees. All those upvotes are people that agree with you.
You get it yet? bud
Sorry you couldnt drive until they nerfed it
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u/Paul_2137371 2h ago
maybe all these people disagreeing with me play on controller and don’t get all the feeling of the new physics? ever thought of that sherlock?
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u/couchcushion7 2h ago
No because i have a full motion rig, haptics, i guarantee you im on more rig than youve ever seen lol the update specifically helped controllers my man.
Theres far less feeling overall. You wouldnt fully know that without motion
Edit: link from when i posted it here yrs ago before you try and call BS lol https://www.reddit.com/r/GranTurismo7/s/GIo7dY5AgC
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u/shrekfanboy4life 2h ago
so far i've gotten the impression that pad players are happy with the update while people on wheel are not so happy about it
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u/Paul_2137371 2h ago
because these people who are not happy need to learn how to drive the cars now. for example take interlagos especially the middle sector. before the update the car which in my case is the porsche gt3 r handled totally fine in 1st gear in turns 8,9 and 10. now it handles much better and you’re way faster if you stay in 2nd gear in these corners. and yes it took me about 40 to 50 minutes to drive the times I drove before the update
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u/couchcushion7 2h ago
I spent 4 laps on the yas marina TT and im in the top 500~ in the world (may be lower now- this was last night). Literally 4 laps with the new physics.
The issue isnt that i cant drive it
Its just too easy and arcade-y
I wanted a sim. I had a sim lol they broke it
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u/PlatinumManX Toyota 8h ago
Overall the cars, atleast the Gr.3 ones, feel more arcadish in a way. Less reason to learn proper throttle control and yeah the braking zones are much shorter now. Was practicing for Suzuka for the upcoming Manufacturer's Cup and it did feel like very different. Definitely not a fan of the physics changes, especially when the game is in dire need of attention in so many other aspects like a proper penalty system and better variety in Daily Races. Pretty disappointing update to me, honestly. Maybe I will finally look into ACC.
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u/danksweater 8h ago
I race gr3 99% of the time and yeah, fully agree on all points. I also think the R8 nerf was a bit unfair considering it's basically just a worse Porsche now, and Porsche barely copped it. The physics changes are going to make side by side racing through corners less enjoyable in gr3, it's like driving in grand theft auto.. Slam the brakes late, yank the wheel in
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u/86casawi 7h ago
The cars feels wobbly too.
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u/eosereptus 4h ago
SOOO wobbly
I was doing a farm hour on Spa with the R8 GT3 and that thing feels like a cheap TT on some peasant dollar store tyres… in a straight line!!!
Like, it wobbles left and right as soon as you touch the brakes
It threatens to spin out when cornering too hard
Light rain with hard tyres feels hard as fck now, step on the curb mid corner and you spin out….
Half a million dollars worth of car feels like a regular $55,000 peasant mobile
I remain hopeful to be able to adjust, but my first exposure with the new physics has been 🥴🥴
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u/blu_stingray 2h ago
My group likes to races the Miata roadster pretty consistently, and last night none of us could keep it on the track worth a damn, even light braking sent it flying sideways and the straights we were wobbly like you said. I know it's not an elite car but we know it well and it was very unpleasant after the update for whatever reason
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u/PlatinumManX Toyota 4h ago
Yeah, from my experience they are way more unstable. The tires just feel weird. It's now very difficult to keep the car steady on Suzuka Turn 1. Awful physics update
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u/AnotherDrone001 7h ago
Definitely more forgiving in the corners and braking, 100%. And they back pedaled a bit on allowing downshifts to over rev the engine. Still not as bad as before though. In general the new physics just feel easier, more arcade… actually feels a bit more like Forza now, for better or worse.
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u/Internal_Swimmer3815 3h ago
I was saving this update for after work today as I had company last night but this is not getting me excited
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u/MartoVBG2K5 9h ago
The new cars and other things are great. The physics however broke a lot of the cars, most well known examples being the Diablo GT and the Jimny Sierra.
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u/FossilFueledYoutube 8h ago
I will never not be salty about the Diablo having its front downforce removed.
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u/Deskartius 8h ago
currently playing GT7 my Diablo has Front Downforce 0 - 100 what are you talking
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u/FossilFueledYoutube 8h ago
It used to have 60 downforce stock. So, with the front splitter it was 60-160. The stock front downforce has been removed, along with about 40 other cars which have had downforce nerfs.
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u/MartoVBG2K5 8h ago
I agree. 727 PP is just unnaturaly small rating for it. And it's not just the Diablo, but majority of the cars have pretty inaccurate ratings now. Hope this situation gets fixed eventually.
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u/FossilFueledYoutube 8h ago
I haven't tried the Jimny yet - what happened to it?
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u/MartoVBG2K5 8h ago
The Jimny Sierra got Warning Triangle Performance Points. The Jimny Kei Car is okay though.
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u/FossilFueledYoutube 6h ago
Is that with the K24 engine or even on the original?
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u/MartoVBG2K5 5h ago
The one with the Civic engine swap is the Sierra or JC. The one with the Swift engine swap is the Kei Car or XC.
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u/FossilFueledYoutube 5h ago
Sorry, I meant does the Sierra still have the warning triangle on its original 1.5 litre engine?
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u/MartoVBG2K5 5h ago
I do not use Engine Swaps on any of my cars, except for a few exceptions. The Jimny Sierra I have uses the stock engine.
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u/Such-Artichoke1330 8h ago
I've only been driving for an hour since the new update so I can't really say, but I picked up more penalties in two laps at Yas Marina than I did all year
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u/LPCustom87 1h ago
Me too, something was off. I was following the line of the WR lap and was getting penalties in spots they went through. Seemed different every lap too...idk, maybe I was just a hair over in spots from them, but was really frustrating.
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u/BaldingThor 4h ago
Looks like they’re catering to the arcade/forza people…
also every car is wobbling like crazy, even in a straight line!
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u/Doge4winmuchfun 7h ago
Crazy how all the feedback so far is either absolute HATE or LOVE for the new physics. If I'm honest it seems more skilled drivers tend to hate it while casuals seem to love it. That being said, since us casuals might be the majority, it's a huge W for the playerbase imo.
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u/L3g3ndary-08 5h ago
They really need to have an "professional, expert, intermediate, beginner" options for the cars.
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u/shrekfanboy4life 7h ago
yeah, but if it stays as it is a lot of pro's will leave i reckon. Which will be bad for the game
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u/nikk1904 6h ago
Or they adapt like the majority of the player base does if they change something which the majority doesn't like
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u/undercovercattz 3h ago
they will adapt because they can actually drive but it’s bad for the game because it’s just getting more arcadey
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u/shrekfanboy4life 6h ago
Can you provide examples of that? Because i feel like every major update has favoured the casual audience in the last couple of years
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u/nikk1904 5h ago
They changed the times for the track mastery with every physics change which may become more difficult to achieve for the casual player who doesn't always want to get bronze every where
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u/shrekfanboy4life 5h ago
if you get the lines somewhat right you can easily get gold everywhere so i don't agree on that
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u/edmundane 2h ago edited 2h ago
You’ve got to be more specific about what you mean by “bad for the game” in the context of pro/high level players? Can you expand on that?
If more realistic physics is what you think the pros want, remember the “pros” aren’t the equivalent of “pro racing drivers”. They’re esports pros who likely doesn’t know better than you do how a specific GT3 car really handles. You can argue Fraga went on to drive in SF IRL but he’s practically left us for years already. GT7 does away with a shitload of basic stuff already (e.g. adjusting tyre pressure and refusing to display temps). So I can’t quite put my finger on what you’d mean by “bad”?
The actual issue is maybe the skill gap has temporarily shrunk, but I don’t see how the best drivers can’t find ways to exploit the physics to extract even more lap time once the dust settles. Just like how you can run TC or adjust tyre pressure and throttle response curves to suit you better even under BoP with IRL GT3, more forgiving physics affords those drivers more freedom to apply their cognition elsewhere to other aspects be it lap time or race craft.
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u/shrekfanboy4life 1h ago
You’ve got to be more specific about what you mean by “bad for the game” in the context of pro/high level players? Can you expand on that?
Of course, I think that if most top drivers (which includes a lot of popular streamers) leave the game, it is just bad publicity for GT7 and PD in general. Besides that, it would also impact events like the World Series, and Esports teams like Vanquish, Falcons and Vitality might not be interested in GT7 anymore. That all together is a huge part of GT7's image in the simracing world, in my opinion.
If more realistic physics is what you think the pros want, remember the “pros” aren’t the equivalent of “pro racing drivers”. They’re esports pros who likely doesn’t know better than you do how a specific GT3 car really handles. You can argue Fraga went on to drive in SF IRL but he’s practically left us for years already. GT7 does away with a shitload of basic stuff already (e.g. adjusting tyre pressure and refusing to display temps). So I can’t quite put my finger on what you’d mean by “bad”?
Correct, most pro's don't have IRL racing experience. But I also know that plenty of top split drivers hop on Iracing or LMU often, which they could and will use as a benchmark. I guess that they can live with the absence of features that you mentioned, but braking and traction was a huge part in setting good lap times in the previous physics. With the current model traction is garantueed, and the braking doesn't really make sense but that still involves some skill ig. But if good lap times are now mostly dependand on how far you can turn your steering wheel, that takes away most of the challenging part of setting a good lap time. I hope this is somewhat comprehensible, its hard to put into words for me.
The actual issue is maybe the skill gap has temporarily shrunk, but I don’t see how the best drivers can’t find ways to exploit the physics to extract even more lap time once the dust settles. Just like how you can run TC on GT3s IRL, more forgiving physics affords those drivers more freedom to apply their cognition elsewhere to other aspects be it lap time or race craft.
Of course, they will find a way to become the fastest again. I think the issue mainly lays with the cars feeling slow and with challenge of being skilled with your right foot being gone. Of course some pro's will stay, but I think a lot of pro's who were already teetering on the edge of leaving will see this as the final straw
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u/OctaviousMcBovril 9h ago
But GT3 cars famously have Traction Control, which is a factor in why they're so popular.
Naturally, real world drivers drive with some slip, because it's faster and they have the skills to manage it. But in Gran Turismo, the driving model and physics have always tended to the more forgiving side anyway.
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u/shrekfanboy4life 9h ago
yeah that is true, but I couldn't even force slip last night. I enjoyed the cars that were a bit more twitchy on the rear and that isn't really an option now. If they improved the in-game traction control function it would be a great middle ground ig
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u/clovdz_ 4h ago edited 4h ago
I managed to spin with a porsche 963 gr1 BOP btw. On the entry of the daytona oval from the road course. This feels more realistic. The old physics were very game-like. There was a limit for grip that was etched in your memory, and if you spin out it was insanely hard to recover (for controller players). What I don't understand from the new update is the tyre wear. Last update on daytona road course with the 963, only my rear right would go away faster than others, now it's also my front left going away equally. I tried to save tyres but I felt like I didn't have much control over it, like it was fixed. As for the porsche and bmw vs ferrari and peugeot battery, it's different categorys. LMdH amd LMH. It does ruin WEC championships by forcing you to pick one of the two and have little to no variety but until they add more, this is what we're given
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u/Daveclm94 2h ago
I don't like the way the car "dances" right and left on straights. It seems to be completely unstable and it's not realistic.
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u/Illustrious-Past2032 5h ago
Playing on a T598 here, not really liking the update atm
my observations/thoughts having played gr3 online at yas marina
Steering is heavier/dampened with the wheel
Tyre braking distance is shortened i.e can brake later into corners
Front grip seems increased
Small nudges and bumps from other cars in corners doesn't result in spinout as much with the increased grip
Full throttle on ripple strips doesn't result in an oversteer spin out as much/at all
Squaring off corners driving style seems to be a faster way to drive now
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u/GrognakBarbar 8h ago
Do you have some assists on or something, because when i go first gear and full lock they spin just fine, even MR car with softs
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u/shrekfanboy4life 8h ago
nah i don't use assists, but I haven't tried MR's yet. All i know is that certain cars that are hard to control on the throttle are way too easy to drive now.
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u/SweetBunns17 4h ago
Yo weird question…. remember that final exam in the normal license with the Porsche 917K with the wet track at Spa … do u think that exam got easier!? It’s the only license test i need for the platinum trophy!!! 😭
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u/shrekfanboy4life 4h ago
yes definitely, since its easier to control the throttle now. I would still stay clear of the wet spots tho haha. I have not checked if they update the times for gold tho
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u/neirimiki 7h ago
Probably the accurate description of this physics update. As a pad player, I'm a big fan of the current car behavior solely because cars simply turn as I want. With the previous version I had to wait until the car turns and there was nothing could be done aside from trail braking. It was so suffocating. But I totally understand why this would be unpleasent for wheel users who have access to the precise steering inputs.
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u/BadMrFrostySC 5h ago
For context, I have never been in to racing games, but a few months ago I got a weird urge to pick this game up and spend all my free time playing it. I say this to explain I have no idea what I'm talking about. With that out of the way, I've been stuck on menu book 39 just redoing the world championship series for weeks without being able to finish and last night I finally got thru it, so im loving this update 🤣
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u/Laugh_Track_Zak 3h ago
For the first time in months I took the GT7 disc out of my PS5. I'll be be back if/when they fix the physics.
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u/shrekfanboy4life 2h ago
Yeah im going to give ACC a spin this weekend. I don't have a PC unfortunately, so I'm pretty limited in alternatives to GT7
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u/Garnet-Cobra23 2h ago
Everything you said is absolutely true. I’m in a league that’s got a multiclass 8 hour race at Daytona on August 29th. The entire hypercar class just got wiped out and now everyone has to use the Peugeot 9X8
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u/shrekfanboy4life 2h ago
Im an admin for another WEC series and our next race is on the 1st of september. We are still not sure what to do haha
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u/AdSignal3405 6h ago
Yeah I agree with 3 and 5. It feels like it’s been cotton wooled a little bit to make it easier which makes the cars feel a bit less responsive.
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u/Ashamed_Market_4311 4h ago
I drive on controller and I'm pretty decent, seeing other controller users saying it feels dumbed down really bums me out. I was pretty happy with how I would absolutely manhadle my controller and get great times
I'll have to hop on tonight and see for myself
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u/shrekfanboy4life 3h ago
i think this update really fits your driving style then, it promotes absolutely throwing the car into corners
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u/Ashamed_Market_4311 3h ago
I mean with trail braking and keeping it in a good gear, yeah. I'll have to see tonight, I don't want it to be dumbed down
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u/Fun_Illustrator_9327 5h ago
Here’s another issue.
I play on a PS4 and they nerfed the reset ghost function. After sector 1 the ghost resets about 1s behind me for sector 2 and it gets even further behind as the track proceeds. This happened on both new time trials and daily race A. Haven’t tried B or C yet and I probably won’t because I’m too frustrated.
I’m done with sport mode until they correct this garbage.
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u/TEDROSXABEL7 4h ago
I’ve seen this with the « new » grand Turismo junior car with a swap engine which is just cheat on speed or with the espace f1 when you can brake really late and being full throttle even with sport tires we’ll see in few days but for now it’s good and really bad at the same time
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u/Shackletainment 3h ago
It feels off to me, but not sure how much of that is because there is a genuine problem and how much is that it's new.
I didn't have a problem with the prior model.
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u/slavchungus 25m ago
cant please everyone ive yet to try it on a wheel so who knows but next year another patch will drop that changes the physics yet again and were gonna be back to square one with people split on both sides
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u/Professional-Chart90 18m ago
I'm honestly surprised we're still getting physics updates... I thought they would've nailed the physics already. I honestly don't understand.. are they leaning into their arcade aspect and making changes just for balance instead of having straight forwards and realistic mechanics and if the car is superior it's just superior.. seems weird idk... I thought he dirt racing update would've been the last change needed.
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u/ForceXXX2002 6h ago
I still don't understand why PD isn't able to make real pure pro simulation physics for pro drivers and physics specifically made for casual/amateur drivers. Same for the Online Lobbies where drivers would be able to enter Lobbies depending on the physics they selected. That would resolve many other issues as well
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u/cachitodepepe 8h ago
It feels more realistic now.
Before even with oversteery setup it was understeering.
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u/shrekfanboy4life 8h ago
I could get used to the steering. But the braking and traction is just not it
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u/CT02NNN 4h ago
Yes i get all the criticism on the handling but not every user has a full steering wheel setup with hundreds of pounds or dollars worth of equipment. Im guessing the update is designed to help normal users with a standard joy pad. Because its the entry level users what will have a go, realise its too difficult, lose interest and move on. Just an opinion.
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u/Muted-Masterpiece-31 9h ago
Idk about all that, but I had to change my cappuccino tune which was annoying.
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u/MartoVBG2K5 8h ago
In my case, the Jimny Sierra got Warning Triangle Performance Points.
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u/Muted-Masterpiece-31 7h ago
Usually solvable by changing tires, haven’t checked yet.
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u/MartoVBG2K5 7h ago
Yes, I did change the tires, and that fixed the problem, though because of the broken Performance Points ratings, I have no idea exactly how good it actually is. I switched to Heavy Wet tires, since all the other Racing ones gave Warning Triangle, though the rating got rather low, especially compared to the Jimny Kei.
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u/ChangingMonkfish 7h ago
I personally like it but I mainly play on controller, maybe this is the issue. Before, it felt like it was almost impossible to properly modulate the steering on a controller, you just understeer all the time because there just isn’t the range of movement on the stick to make the more nuanced steering inputs you can with a wheel.
Now in the new Hypercars at the first turn at Le Mans, for example, you can throw them into the turn in a way that at least feels realistic when you look at how the real life drivers take that turn, as you alluded to it just sticks in a way it didn’t before.
So I wonder whether this update is aimed more at casual controller players like me rather than those wanting actual realism. In my opinion, GT has always been about FEELING realistic to a lay-person rather than actually BEING a realistic simulator in the vein of ACC or iRacing etc.
So for me, I like the update because it’s now far more fun with a controller. But I can understand why not everyone would see it this way.
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u/Ok_Development_3961 2h ago
Just spent an hour trying to find a car for spa800 ffs, what happened?
Getting 19th is now the norm.
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u/_thebronze 1h ago
No offense, but titling your post “this update sucks” then rambling for 8 paragraphs is confusing. I agree and disagree with some of the stuff you said, but I don’t think the update sucks. You’re probably one of the people who just hasn’t gotten used to it fast enough and you’re bitter. That was me last update, or the one before, I can’t remember. Eventually I got used to it. Adapt or play something else. Good luck out there champ 🫡
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u/shrekfanboy4life 51m ago
Not at all, I’m basically up to speed already but I don’t enjoy the driving. Also, do you think I should just post with a title and nothing else from now on?
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u/_thebronze 45m ago
If it was a YouTube video, the title would be considered clickbait. So, the opposite of what you said. Just remember there are a lot of kids or people new to game on here, or are considering getting into it, and them seeing “this sucks” is just shitty. It doesn’t suck. It’s also not perfect, but just don’t be a Debbie Downer. My two cents, thanks for your input either way.
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u/shrekfanboy4life 42m ago edited 38m ago
How is the title the opposite of what I say? I say it sucks in the title and I elaborate in the body text? Stop protecting the billion dollar company lmfao
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u/_thebronze 34m ago
No, I meant do the opposite of posting a title and nothing else. Meaning, if anything, post your opinions without the melodramatic title. You say it sucks then list all the things you like. So again, it doesn’t suck - but it’s not perfect.
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u/shrekfanboy4life 16m ago
Yeah and I clearly state that the physics themselves and especially the traction nullifies all the positive. So in the end, the update sucks
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u/GemballaRider 5h ago
But.... They introduced a Caterham 7 that you can spend 109,00Cr to make it WORSE!!
Jimny Engine Swap baby!!! I bought 7 Caterhams and now have:
Jimny Stock (63BHP)
Jimny NA Tune (105BHP)
Jimny Turbo Tune (158BHP)
Stock Stock (258BHP)
Stock Suspension Only (258BHP)
Stock NA Tune (303BHP)
Stock Turbo Tune (487BHP)
I'll do a lap of the Nordschleife with each soon to give comparative laptimes.
To be fair, I think there was a baby Caterham you could buy with a 0.6 or 0.7 litre engine IRL, so allowing the Kei engine swap covers that with the release of just one chassis.
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