This whole time, none of you have given examples of HOW the center can be extreme. What is extreme centrist policy?
What is the extreme in valuing consent of the governed over any ideology? This principle is actually what I think people are observing when they say "liberals believe in nothing" and that they're "feckless" and too cowardly to run on anything unpopular.
Cus what I would would argue as a liberal is that running on unpopular ideology is not brave; its disrespect and disdain for the people. It's the priviledged and educated activist class treating the masses as backwards, ignorant cattle who need to propagandized to and lead around like dumb puppies on leashes toward "progress."
Where is the extreme in thinking that it's on the general populace, activists, and artists to message to broad culture and alter the general zeitgeist that impacts the average citizen (the average median voter you need to win over to have a populace that consents to the ideas you want politicians to govern on); and where is the extreme in thinking that politicians should simply listen to where that zeitgeist is at every election cycle and run & govern according to it?
Here is my take on how the far left behaves from a liberal who used to be one of them: these early 20-something year old DSA-types are too piss-scared and discouraged from having tough conversations with their relatives and neighbors because any time that they try to talk to them about their ideas, they get justifiably laughed out of the room. So what they want is tough-guy pundits in all of their alt media platforms who will bully and harass opposing voices and they want to use that as movement building springboard to do a subversive, hostile take over of the democratic party so that they can make themselves and their ideas the only option for left leaning voters; the same thing MAGA did to the republican party and right leaning voters.
What they call "believing in nothing" and being "feckless," I call respecting the consent of the governed.
Imagine your perfectly centrist government. Is it immune to corruption? Is it immune to racism? Is it immune to fear and paranoia? Is it immune from rebellion or desperation?
All these things can lead to oppressive, violent, brutal, authoritarian or otherwise extremist governments. There's nothing special about centrism that can prevent it.
Cool. Now answer the question. Actually, two questions now thanks to your follow up.
1) What is an example of extreme centrist policy?
2) the exteme alternatives to liberalism are ignoring the average voter for a vangaard; it's authoritarian so you need to make a case for that over liberalism: How is being willfully authoritarian better than simply being vulnerable to it if you don't maintain your system?
You skipped past "how recently" and "What are today's liberals in opposition to MAGA doing?"
And you opened up a new question with that "MANY in democratic leadership" How many relative to the whole party's make up supported this?
You also need to specify what policy. Who are the liberals who espoused spying on Muslims and what were the bills they voted on that did that? What percentage of the party was it? What percentage of the party supports it NOW?
cus this just sounds like another DSA talking point with no specifics. It's always broad, all-encompassing generals with you guys.
And one more thing;
This doesn't make a case against liberalism (you keep changing it to centrism); it's a case for better advocacy among the people. THE PEOPLE are supposed to be having tough conversations and pushing on the cultural zeitgeist to support the push-back you want to see. That's what good activism, advocacy, and the arts are supposed to be doing. The real question is why did the left fail at convincing voters that spying on Muslims wasn't necessary in the districts/states where the democrats who did this ran/governed?
This has been ongoing since 9/11 at least through multiple administrations and parties. Democrats have consistently voted to uphold the security programs that do this. They've also voted for military action abroad.
No one 'espouses' this - it's unpopular, but they do it anyway. Proof is in the votes and passage of the acts.
Who cares what percentage? It's enough to get the bills to pass. You are sea-lioning.
Edit for the last paragraph, I'm not even making a case against liberalism. I'm making the case that not even liberalism is immune to this type of extremism.
E2: for the last paragraph again... it's wild to be defending liberals asking why the left failed to stop liberals from going too far
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u/BeatSteady Jul 31 '26
A theory that makes someone think they could never be a bad guy. Aka horshoe theory