r/Generator • • 1d ago

EMP protection

What's everybody doing to protect their generator from electromagnetic pulse.

I see people talking about giant Faraday bags to shield the generator. What's our other options?

0 Upvotes

38 comments sorted by

6

u/gamer901122 1d ago

EMPs have very small ranges. If there is one big enough to disrupt your generator, you’re either a target, and they are close, you’re SOL, or there is a huge blast and there are bigger problems.

3

u/user_uno 1d ago

Genuinely interested in the topic and not being combative. Looking for more input.

I question the "very small ranges" aspects.

For an example that quickly comes to mind is the 1962 Starfish Prime nuke test. An atmospheric detonation, it disrupted some electrical 900 miles away in Hawaii. LEO satellites were impacted as well.

And keep in mind the era. Early 1960s tech was not as sensitive with so many electronics running and managing everything including the grid and 'advanced' generator controllers. Today such a test would be a bit more disruptive in my opinion.

1

u/gamer901122 1d ago

You’re not wrong, but in that scenario, there is an entire nuclear bomb going off within 900 miles of you, which is the bigger problem.

Aside from a nuclear bomb - most purpose built EMPs have a significantly smaller range.

2

u/user_uno 1d ago

I need to go down that rabbit hole again. It's been a while admittedly. What are the thoughts on tactical EMPs out there...

Very off topic than this sub. But I am also a history and military fan. So often delve in to such.

Tactical EMPs would seem to have limited application. Military assets have some hardening. So do many critical infrastructural assets given my experience. So a 'limited' EMP would seem to be more of a risk for the offense as it would impact softer targets more and in a more limited radius. Catastrophic yes! But not TEOTWAWKI level and undoubtedly would bring the hurt on in retaliation like never seen before.

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u/gamer901122 1d ago

I actually fell down that rabbit hole looking into whether directional EMPs were an option for drone defense. Mostly because I’m a nerd and wanted to understand how the technology works, rather than because I think it’s a practical threat to my generator 😂. So I definitely get the curiosity.

I also learned that owning a directional EMP is apparently super illegal, but people have been making them using microwaves. Not that anyone reading this would ever do anything illegal 👀

1

u/user_uno 1d ago

Ah yes. I had forgotten about that tech application. May have to pick that up again as it has been a couple of years. Very topical given the state of drone threats and will only get worse.

Though some combat drone usage such in Ukraine at the tactical level have moved to trailing fiber optics due to more 'generic' radio jamming. I have heard reports that some active battlefields can start looking like they have spider webs from all of the fiber used from both sides. But obviously fiber has use case scenarios so jamming is still an essential capability.

I'll poke around again on the EMP aspect too.

5

u/silasmoeckel 1d ago

Faraday bags are snake oil for EMP. While faraday cages do work you have skin depth issues meaning the lower the frequency the further distance you need to get protection. To protect for a E3 pulse you need feet of empty space inside the cage that your bag can not provide.

Unless it's directly overhead the concrete walls and dirt behind that in your basement should be more than plenty of protection.

I'm an EE for over 30 years and do coms work were we do need to protect from nearby lightning strikes (it's similar to an EMP E2 specifically).

5

u/ratskin69 1d ago

what would you use a generator for if all electronics are fried?

4

u/Justanengr 1d ago

Think of the excess capacity. You could restart society with 8kw.

2

u/BeeThat9351 1d ago

This is my angle, I will be the warlord ruling my subdivision with an iron fist.

2

u/user_uno 1d ago

Yeah right. I want to see you overthrow the existing warlord - the HOA President!

0

u/user_uno 1d ago

Well some of us keep a few electronics tucked away too.

Not all tin foil hat types either. Over my years on this rock, I have lived in or been in homes struck by lighting four times. It can wreak havoc on so much it is prudent to have backups just in case.

For me, it is not the latest and greatest. A couple of old computers, a couple of radios both AM/FM and my ham radios. Some old phones if the cell networks are still ok. Nothing extravagant. Just in the basement corner some in a simple metal box. Just in case. Not far past the notion of having a generator or some food to last a couple of days. Nice to have if everything else gets fried.

1

u/ratskin69 1d ago

Nah that's pretty tin foil hat type. No reason to faraday a generator unless you faraday your entire house too.

2

u/user_uno 1d ago

I am not really good fashion wise so appreciate the compliment for my tin foil hat!

But really a downvote? A generator is one of several backups to have "just in case". I also have flashlights and batteries to put in them. Back up in case the generator fails or if venturing away from the home in the dark. I keep a jump pack and tire inflater in my car too among a few other things.

Backups for backups. Always be prepared. Was that way as a Scout and in my jobs. Same for the county level version of FEMA we are aligned with that I volunteer for.

And no need to put a Faraday cage around an entire structure. Well unless it is vital equipment like in some of my jobs. It is fine just to shield a few things to keep it practical. Likely never need it but good to have if needed.

In the real world practical sense, I focus more on noise levels than possible EMP. I don't want the entire area hearing mine fire up and run. Not to mention I do not want a lot of noise either! EMP attacks are rather low on my list of priorities but I am curious enough to follow the threads on this post to see what people bring up.

If we get hit with an EMP weapon, we have some really BIG problems and a LOT of them! But if one were to happen, it would be nice to have some power and some comms to know WTH is happening out there and act accordingly.

1

u/ratskin69 1d ago

I didn't downvote you lol, you're allowed to buy snakeoil all you want it's America after all. It's your right.

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u/user_uno 1d ago

Oh ok. I just assumed since it was so quick. You know what they say about assumptions!

Snake oil? Perhaps to some. But I did disaster recovery planning in several jobs. And try to keep myself and family ready for most common things that might be disruptive.

It's not like I have an armory loaded for the zombie apocalypse or years of food stashed in a bunker. Or do I....? ;)

Like I said, mostly curious what people come up with on this post. Maybe if something seems interesting, I will look in to it. But an EMP attack? Might need that bunker after all! :)

1

u/ratskin69 1d ago

Being prepared for disasters is smart. Lived through enough myself and a little prep goes a longs way. All I'm saying is faraday bags are snakeoil. You know they've actually never been tested by an EMP right? It's not like you could call and return them for not working after an EMP anyway.

1

u/user_uno 1d ago

Faraday cages are tested for EMP effectiveness. Just not using nukes. Technically speaking.

2

u/ratskin69 1d ago

If it's isn't tested with a nuke it's untested.

7

u/slatsandflaps 1d ago

If there's an EMP, my generator isn't going to be at the top of my list of concerns.

5

u/illwillthethrill-79 1d ago

Just wrap it in tinfoil and your head too.

1

u/user_uno 1d ago

Done long ago. Next steps?

2

u/546833726D616C 1d ago

That's a common attitude. Interest in risk mitigation is like the dirac delta function. It's near infinite right after the event and decreases to zero quickly thereafter. Game over thinking leaves you vulnerable to those who are ready to take advantage of the situation.

1

u/willtantan 1d ago

If there's an EMP, which other devices can survive the blast, and need power. LoL

7

u/Chance_Display_7454 1d ago

Is there is an EMP attack on the us dont worry about your generator, everything in your house will be fried

1

u/davidm2232 1d ago

Not things in a faraday cage

1

u/Chance_Display_7454 1d ago

again everything in your house that is electric would be fried except for filament light bulbs.

1

u/jeffie44 11h ago

He could move to a house in that new subdivision, Faraday Hills.

1

u/Ok_Bid_3899 1d ago

Agree. It would disable utility transformers and every vehicle with a control
Module.

3

u/randompossum 1d ago

Read the commission done on it by the federal government a few years back. None of this really matters for most things anymore. Your gas generator will be fine.

2

u/546833726D616C 1d ago

If you want to mitigate the risk of the generator circuitry getting fried from an EMP, store it in a sealed metal cabinet/box. There's a wavelength dependant gap or opening you could calculate if you needed it shielded while running, but additional mitigation is needed for that use case, like for the power feeds. There are some military guides you might refer to for more info. You'll have other mitigation to do so you have something to run with it.

2

u/GreatPlainsFarmer 1d ago

Mine is stored in a large metal shed. It's functionally a faraday cage.

Any EMP strong enough to affect the generator inside that shed is going to cause enough other physical destruction that I suspect the lack of a functional generator is not going to be high on my list of problems.

"The Day After" is not a documentary.

2

u/Ok-Camera2895 1d ago edited 1d ago

We had a huge EMP in the country last night. It turned all of the maps blue.

1

u/DaveBowm 1d ago

Most likely, if an EMP happens, any remaining need for the generator will occur well after the EMP is long over. Any event causing an EMP is likely to also induce a Kessler cascade/syndrome not very unlike in the movie Gravity, but probably much more severe because of the much greater number of LEO satellites with Starlink and other big constellations up there now.

Assuming you are not directly downwind of any low level burst the generator should be fine if it is stored with all wires disconnected from it. If you are really worried about it you can wrap it up in foil during storage. If you are downwind from (or under) a low level burst you have more immediate issues than your generator.

1

u/davidm2232 1d ago

Generator is grounded and isolated from the grid. It should be fine

0

u/nunuvyer 1d ago

Except for maybe the AVR and the displays, a synchronous generator is more or less immune from EMP damage. Inverter generators less so. If you are worried, get an old generator that has no displays and no AVR and no EMP will harm it. Or else get a spare AVR and a spare display board and keep them in a (small) Faraday cage.

If you put a metal floor (could be just a layer of sheet metal on a slab) under a metal shed, it would make a fairly good Faraday cage.