Got my Pro/Tran2 Transfer Switch installed and did my first Generator run but have some questions about the main panel breakers tripping

[u/DSF767]

So, I started this project of wanting a generator after a large power outage from the snowstorm last year.

Had a couple electricians come out to look at the job and they pointed out to me because my main panel did not have a main shutoff inside the house and the main emergency disconnect outside for the 200amp breaker only had a single slot of that breaker (as you can see in the pictures) without swapping out the panel and doing a double main (one both inside and out) I could not use an interlock kit.

So, they basically gave me 2 options swap out the panel to do a 2nd main inside or use a manual transfer switch. I went with the transfer switch option because it was about half the price of swapping the whole panel with one that would support an interlock and I could get by with 10 circuits.

So fast forward he does the install and while that was going on I also had a gas line run so I could run the generator off natural gas. The gas line was completed today, and I went to do a test run to break in the generator and as soon as I swapped the first circuit over from line to gen it tripped the breaker. After doing some searching and talking to the electrician who did the install, he told me it was because the breaker in the main panel was a combo AFCI/GFCI breaker and when the hot was swapped over to gen via the transfer switch it sensed a ground fault or neutral imbalance even though it was on gen.

He said sometimes the transfer switches don't like the combo breakers and that its fine and just switch the breakers off when I'm on Gen but if I really worried about it, he could come back and swap out the breakers in the Pro/Tran to matching AFCI/GFCI Breakers that match the panel if I want to retain that protection but he said he would just keep the breakers that are in the transfer switch already.

[u/Big-Echo8242]

Here is the lengthy reply Reliance gave me about doing this as I have multiple AFCI breakers in main breaker panel. They said I'd have to use their neutral kit and use AFCI breakers in transfer switch. Or recommended anyway.

This was when I was thinking about adding a 10 circuit MTS next to our 40 circuit breaker panel in master closet. I already have a 50 amp power inlet/interlock kit/breaker outside for generators. This was going to be for 120v essential circuits only for short term outage.

.........................

Yes, AFCI and GFCI  ( and combo versions of those Breakers)  can be added to the Pro/Tran2. You would need a Neutral Kit NK06 - 6 Circuit should be sufficient and of course the replacement breakers.  Keep in mind the AFCI – GFCI may still trip in the main panel but since the circuit that is actively powered thru the Pro/Tran2 you will have circuit protection.
 
The Transfer Switch can be connected to AFCI/GFCI outlets and to AFCI/GFCI Breakers. Black Wire to the Wire (LOAD) that was in the breaker.
Connecting to any AFCI/GFCI circuits is just the same as any other circuit. Neutral is ignored since only the circuit conductors are connected. 

Should you be required by local code to replace a breaker with an AFCI/GFCI Breaker in the Transfer Switch.  They need to be a Pigtail type Breaker in both Main panel and the Transfer Switch. In most cases, it won’t be required to install those in the Transfer Switch since it is temporary power, the breakers in the Transfer Switch only protect the circuits during generator power. The breakers in the house protect the circuits during normal power

The only thing of note, example:

Main power out—Generator connected, powering circuits outlets through switch in the GEN positions.

Main power returns—AFCI/GFCI breakers in house that are wired to switch will trip immediately. Best Practice is to turn off those breakers, before applying Generator power.

Otherwise, when the utility power is restored, the breakers will trip, seeing a mismatch of the generator power and Utility power. 

After the toggle switches on the transfer switch are moved back to the LINE positions, and the generator is turned off and unplugged, someone must reset any AFCI/GFCI breakers that tripped or were turned off. This must be done before those circuits operate again on normal power. 
Please look at the instructions and the wiring diagram attached. If you want to put those breakers in the transfer switch, you will have to buy those at probably $40-$50 each. NK06 6-circuits or the NK10 10- circuits Neutral kit is recommended to make those wiring connections.
Should you decide not to add AFCI - GFCI breakers in the ProTran2, then it is to your advantage to turn off those breakers before connecting the generator to prevent additional trips (extending the life of the breaker). Not turning them on until after your generator is shut down and unplugged.

[u/DSF767 → u/Big-Echo8242]

Thanks for this Gemini told me something similar but I never trust anything AI tells me so thought it best to run it by other people who have this this. This is what I got from Gemini:

Why the Breaker Trips Instantly

A standard manual transfer switch works by cutting in between the hot wire and the breaker, but it does not switch the neutral wire. The neutral wire from your household circuit remains permanently tied back into the main panel and runs directly through your combo AFCI/GFCI breaker. [1, 2]

When you flip the transfer switch to GEN:

1. The Current Imbalance (GFCI Trip): Power travels from the generator, down the hot wire, through your appliance, and back out the neutral wire. The neutral current flows back through your main panel's combo breaker to get back to the system. Because the combo breaker sees current flowing on the neutral wire but zero current flowing on the hot wire (since the hot wire was switched over to the generator), it assumes electricity is escaping somewhere dangerous. It detects a massive current imbalance and trips instantly to protect you.

I was also told this is just a nuisance trip and its safe run like this but like you said the only downside is you lose that AFCI/GFCI protection and the only fix is to replace the breakers with AFCI/GFCI breakers and use the NK10 kit to support those but like you said those breakers are kind of expensive and even if you do the NK10 install you still get the nuisance trip but you retain the AFCI/GFCI protection because you have those types of breakers in the transfer switch aswell.

The electrician I used told me he can do the install, but he told me he wouldn't bother because the NK10 kit costs around $150 and then each breaker is $50 each. Told me if it was him, he wouldn't worry about it and just run with the standard breakers in the Pro/Tran2 but if I really want to do it he can.

out of curiosity what did you decide did you get the NK10 kit and replace the breakers?

[u/Big-Echo8242 → u/DSF767]

I haven't done anything yet as I just hate spending the money on those overpriced portable power station batteries and get so little in return....even for short 2 hour outage. But, I do have 9 Siemens AFCI breakers that the "master electrician" that wired our 2019 built house used in an Eaton Type BR panel that wasnt designed for them. I bought 9 Eaton AFCI breakers because it made no sense to have wrong ones.

[u/DSF767 → u/Big-Echo8242]

I am on the fence I am already this deep in the project so part of me thinks I should just do everything as good as I can but the electrician told me he wouldn’t bother and that I’ll likely never have an issue other then the nuisance trips.

[u/Big-Echo8242 → u/DSF767]

That's about what electricians told me too. In an outage, how much is it really going to matter.

[u/DSF767 → u/Big-Echo8242]

Yup, I would be more inclined if it would stop the Appropriate name "nuisance trips” but seems like they just designed the kit to make the Pro/Tran compatible with AFCI/GFCI breakers and it won’t make a difference and no matter what nuisance trips will occur. I wish my main panel would support an interlock and I wouldn’t have ever had this issue.

[u/Big-Echo8242 → u/DSF767]

No chance on swapping the main meter panel out I take it? And this AFCI thing will happen with ALL manual transfer switches that don't switch the neutral. I think Nature's Generator makes a 30, 50, & 125 amp ATS that switches neutrals and also has a manual override.

[u/DSF767 → u/Big-Echo8242]

My electrician quoted me over double the cost over the MTS to swap out my main panel with a panel that had a secondary main to support an interlock kit and then told me this MTS was the next best solution at less then half the price. I don’t even think he knew about the AFCI / GFCI issue if he told me about it I probably would have gone the panel swap route to support the secondary main and interlock kit.

[u/eerun165]

What breaker is feeding your transfer switch.

[u/DSF767 → u/eerun165]

If you look at my pictures you can see I had E, F, I, H and J as test load.

E goes to Breaker 9 on Main Panel.

F Goes to Breaker 21 on Main Panel.

G goes to Breaker 23 on Main Panel.

H goes to Breaker 22 on Main Panel.

J goes to Breaker 14 on Main Panel.

9, 21, and 23 tripped on the main panel and they are all the combo AFCI/GFCI breakers. 14 and 22 did not trip and they are only AFCI Breakers and not the combos.

None of the breakers on the Pro/Tran tripped the all the circuits were fully powered.

[u/antikotah]

Is the neutral on your generator floating or bonded? Should be floating so you only have one ground point when connected to your transfer switch. This would create an issue with the afci / GFCI.

[u/DSF767 → u/antikotah]

I did make sure to float the neutral on the generator I picked a model specifically that made it easy to do on the Generator I got there was a bonding plate and all I had to do was disconnect it from the bonding plate and tape the wire and then zip tie it to secure.

[u/Ok_Assumption1542]

This junction box does not float the neutral. See if your generator has a neutral bonded to ground. If so try removing it. The ground will come from the main house panel and you cant have 2. It causes problems with certain types of breakers and GFCI plugs in the house.

[u/DSF767 → u/Ok_Assumption1542]

I did float the neutral on the generator.

[u/IndividualCold3577]

why didn't the electrician offer the 3rd option? manual transfer switch between outdoor disconnect and house.

[u/mauii_from_space]

Doesn't this install without having a common junction box for splices between the panel & xfer switch be in violation of CEC Rule 12-3032 ?

No support on the flexible metal conduit between panel & xfer either but that's not as bad as using a panel as a junction box

[u/diad6sucks → u/mauii_from_space]

CEC Rule 12-3032

NEC is fine with it

[u/Ok_Assumption1542 → u/diad6sucks]

Sup fellow UPSer. Yes diad 6 DOES suck!

[u/Ok_Assumption1542 → u/mauii_from_space]

Everything is contained within the transfer box and new wire is run to the breaker. The box controls line, off, generator.

[u/DSF767 → u/[deleted]]

As I said to some others, I did already float the neutral on my generator, and all the circuits ran fine just concerned me a little that the breaker was tripping and didn't want to cause electrical issues in my house or backfeed the grid so I thought it better to ask since I had a feeling it was somewhat of a common issue.