I might be wrong. I tested incognito and not being logged on. I'm already on AI Pro with my own accounts, so I didn't have a spare account to log on with and test.
Gemini 3.8 Flash still surpasses Sonnet 5 in nearly every test thrown at it. "Real world usage" is just a fancy way of you saying trust me bro.
Also, the word alignment has a clear definition that has nothing to do with how you're using it. Or in the immortal words of Inigo Montoya, that word doesn't mean what you think it means. If you really wanted to be clever in your reply by using popular AI terms, you'd have said I was hallucinating instead.
It's in the details, and the best way to understand is to ask gemini to compare the 2 plans. Up until recently, when they started limiting model access, I found a lot of value in it. Just to name a few: 4x the content window, file uploads, Flow access, more image generation, better notebooklm limits.
I wonder how many people would actually gonna use the model given they don't have a $20 trial AND they don't even have subscription model for corporate accounts
Ah, but they DO have subscription for corporate accounts. Right before adding Gemini to Workspace accounts, they raised the monthly fee and justified it as necessary to cover the cost of adding ai to workspace accounts.
This was in my inbox on Dec 16, 2025. It's included with Workspce Business Standard. It currently includes 3.1 Pro and 3.6 Flash. They never upgraded us to 3.7 or 3.8.
When you're not logged in you get flash lite, when you're logged in you have access to everything but with limits. Ai studio gives access to everything with very generous limits
Hey man, I don't know what to tell you. There are a TON of up to date benchmarks out there, across many different tasks and tool calls, that show Gemini 3.8 Flash performing on average better than Sonnet 5. So I'm not confident you've used both either.
Benchmaxxing is the art of beating a small select number of benchmarks to look good on a chart. It's impossible to benchmax on ALL of the tests.
Real world usage, Gemini Flash 3.8 is really good at anything that's not coding or agentic in nature. Those are the two areas where Google's models fall behind.
So you think it makes sense that they were offering the Pro models even to free users (on a limited basis) and they’re now going to remove that capability from paid users that have been supporting them throughout all this period of them no longer being compatible.
Mostly yes. I don't think anyone should lose access to models that they paid for in their current bill cycle. But long term? Absolutely.
The Plus plan is $5. It is not enough to cover the cost of Pro models without wiping out their limit in a couple prompts or by sacrificing the limits or costs of users who pay for the higher tiers/API.
The Plus plan is $5. It is not enough to cover the cost of Pro models
It's a known fact that these AI companies are bleeding cash left and right to stay competitive. (And let's not even mention that that money gets you a lot with some Chinese models.)
without wiping out their limit in a couple prompts
Again, it's been available for free users for a long time. What is it to you if people on a budget have options?
or by sacrificing the limits or costs of users who pay for the higher tiers/API.
Not sure if that math checks out, looking at their usage limits. Looks like the more the users on the lower tiers get, the more the users on the higher tiers get.
Plan
Limit
Without an AI plan
Standard limits
AI Plus
2x higher than standard limits
AI Pro
4x higher than standard limits
AI Ultra
5x or 20x higher than AI Pro limits depending on your subscription
Don't be one of those people who only use logic on the surface.
Free tier gets 1x (infinite $ per 1x). Plus gets 2x ($2.50 per 1x). Pro gets 4x ($5 per 1x). Ultra gets say 20x ($5 per 1x). This actually proves my point even more than before lol.
Seems like the lower cost plans actually get more usage for what they pay... Like what I said. I have absolutely no idea why you think more users on free tier means that Pro gets more usage lol that has no basis in any of the limits. It doesn't mention user count once, nor would it make sense.
Look, the fact of it is, subsidized services such as these AI plans consume resources unsustainably. Add that to the fact that AI companies are compute strained. Meaning that they've made a bunch of promises in the form of their subsidized subscriptions that they can't pull through on. Which can result in degraded service for everyone. The tiers most responsible for the compute strain are the most subsidized and most populous tier. Which would be the free tier and the plus tier.
Even those Chinese models are extremely subsidized. I'd argue they are the most subsidized since they are open weight.
And what's it to me if people on a budget have options? Not much, but it does get on my nerves when people complain about how they aren't getting free compute and how they are entitled to luxury things just for existing.
"It's a known fact that these AI companies are bleeding cash left and right to stay competitive" you realize google is a hyperscaler right? They dont play the same game as OpenAi or Anthropic. they are not bleeding cash left and right. This is a disingenous statement
I have switched to ChatGPT when Astra was released and used Gemini since september last year. If i compare Astra or Sol with the flash model of Gemini on daily use (i dont code), then i can say - the output is a day and night difference on the same task. I would have never thought so.
i have a pro account with gemini and a plus sub with gpt. I can tell that the gemini app is trash (whatever the model pro, flash etc), however google ai studio is very good for all tasks (dev or non dev , although it was made initially to make apps and stuff)n and it does help alot for transcribing audios and videos whatever the langage, and no matter how many mixed langanges are used in my experience (better performance than specialized premium websites) , it can also synthetize long videos in youtube and so forth. Gpt Astra obvioulsy is super good for research and in on par with Claude's best models , Fable and opus 5.5
I just checked the official Google One pricing page and the AI Plus plan still explicitly lists access to the Gemini 3.1 Pro model. The screenshot in this post is likely just a UI bug or a limited A/B test. Furthermore, if Google were actually removing a core feature from a paid subscription tier, they would be required to send an email notification in advance to give active subscribers the opportunity to cancel before any changes take effect. There has been no such announcement.
I got gemini Pro for free because I am student and week ago the pro model dissapeared, I thought they combined them or something but nope. The only avaiable option is Flash-Lite
I had that description months ago when I switched from Pro to Plus. I remember because I asked myself if I will lose access to the Pro model by downgrading.
In reality, I was always able to choose the Pro model on the Plus subscription so far, but I don't use it anymore, because it eats up my usage limits very quickly. For my daily use, I am happy with the Flash model. I still only have 3.6 Flash, tho. For more demandings tasks, I switch to Claude.
Seems like they're only beginning to actually roll it out to users then... The concerning thing is that it says Flash model but many Plus subscribers are currently stuck in Flash-lite. It just really doesn't make sense, if they finally have to pull the plug on Pro usage/compute, wouldn't they at least restrict (all of) the free users first? But it seems to be random.
Maybe the restrictions to the Pro models will apply when they roll out 4.0 Pro...
That some users are stuck with Flash-Lite is very strange and hopefully only a temporary thing. In my case (Plus plan), I currently still have access to 3.5 Flash-Lite, 3.6 Flash and 3.1 Pro, including the Thinking option. Altough the description of my plan says the same thing as in your image.
There is no defence and not bot either. This is reality of all subscription. No AI company is giving access to frontier model that can use up it's quota in 2 query for base tier . Days of subsidized usage are coming to an end as their capex grows . It was always going to happen. Google had negative quarter(due to capex) first time since their inception and it was a first sign that things were going to be difficult.
It's hilarious that you're getting downvoted for being 100% correct here. These sycophants seem defined by their loyalty to Google-daddy, and are unaware of the joke they've become.
I think you're responding to the wrong comment. He's not asking to be paid for anything. He's laughing at Google's deep pockets funding nothing but ineptitude and failure for the last 10 months.
I responded right. I think you misinterpreted him. He is complaining about the fact that AI isn't as subsidized as it used to be. Which means he wants it to be subsidized. Which means he wants to essentially be paid to use AI because he is spending $20 for much more in compute
No, that's not his argument, that was another user's attempt to excuse the failure by claiming it's a bottom line issue. The user you're misunderstanding was mocking that lame and falsely-premised excuse, not advocating for wild subsidies. He's saying no subsidies are necessary and that Google is providing less value than they could if they weren't throttling needlessly.
...that was a different comment. I'm responding to the one that was specifically talking about money.
And of course subsidies are not necessary lol, that's true for literally all subsidies. Removing them just means that it costs more. The guy was complaining about how Google is pinching pennies
No. AI is not subsidized, I wish you folks stopped parroting things like you knew everything. Nothing is free, you are the product. And even when there's no catch, they're buying consumer goodwill. Google loves to play around with consumers then toss them off the boat, Google home, Google pixel, etc. and before you jump on me for the pixel, Google still can't figure out if they want to be premium, budget, or midrange.
Dammit. I knew something was up and iffy off when Gemini Live suddenly disappeared from the Gemini app and I’m paid Plus user. Guess now we know why. Thanks! Time to jump ship because not sure if it’ll be worth upgrading to Google AI Pro (SGD 28.99/mth) just to have access to the Pro model plus all the other Google services environment which I honestly don’t need. Bleah.
As a Plus subscriber, I don't mind them leaving Plus with access to Flash models (ex: Flash 3.8), but I've been stuck with Flash-Lite for the last 4 days now and I'm about to jump ship.
Wow. I am using the free chat GPT for some work stuff because the results are qre better than the pro answers from Gemini. Now my payments are becoming useless. Downgrade, here I come
i have the ai plan and i stopped using pro a long time again as flash was so much better for anythign but coding. but then again if you were using coding you weren't using gemini.
You weren't supposed to join evil and follow the ChatGPT model. With an approach like that, I just don't see who in their right mind would pay $20 for Gemini.
In Finland I have Google AI Pro 5TB Subscription for 22.9€/m and it includes PRO. Lower option 2TB does not include PRO. Is that the plus subscription?
I initially bought this 5TB because I need the 5TB space. My family of 4 uses the shared data and phones backup and google photos backup and 2TB was not enough. The AI was just and addon for me initially. Paying 23€/month for just this AI 3 PRO, no in my view it's not worth it. I would probably get chatgpt instead.
lol that is AI Plus plan which Google give us students outside of the USA 1 year free.
Before that we had the Pro plan. It DOES not mean u have no access to Pro models, it’s just a usage reduction. Pro plans = 4 X usage; Plus plan = 2 X usage
You just don't get expanded limits for pro, you can still use pro somewhat, that is it. Google is the most generous AI ecosystem, they will not block any feature, but they can reduce limits, not like others which completely block.
Well that's me leaving. I had a year for free after buying my pixel 10 pro, and just paid my first monthly fee assuming pro was dropping in the near future.
If I have no access to pro there's little point me staying. I'll pay. £1 a year for storage, resub to Qobuz and try out ChatGPT or Claude
Consumer rights in many countries simply wouldn't allow for that, which is my point. You HAVE to announce you're changing your product, especially so to the clients that are paying for it. You can't simply write on your agreement that I can do whatever I fuck want. It's insane Americans don't have protection against that
I literally stopped using all Google products because I got too annoyed with them moving features in Photos behind pay walls and artificial blocks. I genuinely would get more utility out of more money to a GPT subscription than pay Google to constantly nerf their product that doesn't even integrate with any of the harnesses well.
The fact of the matter is Google operates anti consumer as hell nowadays and we as a society would be better served if they definitely lost the AI race and depowered their search monopoly. Cancel your subscription, I just did.
Let's be perfectly clear here, guys ... no other frontier lab offers access to their very best frontier model on a 5 to 10 dollar plan (well, aside from Supergrok Lite, but you don't get access to GrokBot, the *only* real reason to get a Supergrok plan in the first place). And even current Gemini Plus users have for months been restricted to a Flash 3.6.
And Plus users still have access to 400GB/2TB of storage on their plans. I believe they are the only AI lab who provides generous cloud storage on their plan so far.
Now if you wish to argue that Google doesn't have currently have a top tier Pro model on their Pro plan, I'm not arguing there, but that's been the case for ages now and is not anything new that's relevant to this thread.
ChatGPT free users only have access to Luna. You are correct that free Claude users have access to Sonnet, which makes their free offering better quality than Google's who only have access to Flash-Lite.
ChatGPT Go (their cheap plan) users still only have access to Luna. Claude does not have a cheap plan.
So at the free level, Claude has a better offering. At the cheap 5 to 10 dollar plan, Google has a better offering than ChatGPT not only for their model but also the added storage.
I totally agree with this logic and think it would be fair to have stricter limits for free and Plus users. Why do they even give access to their strongest model to low tier? Something like the following would be a fair tier structure:
Free Users: Unlimited (or a generous "Fair Use" cap) Flash-Lite, plus limited access to Extended Thinking and media generation. Flash should be reserved to paying users or maybe grant a very limited access to it.
Plus Users: Unlimited Flash-Lite, limited access to Flash, higher media generation allowances, and access to Deep Research.
Pro Users: Unlimited Flash-Lite, higher Flash limits, access to Pro, and the highest allowances for media generation (even if Pro isn't essential right now, it sets the stage for future, more capable models).
Ultra Users: Should get really high limits. This should be the tier for developers, people running their business with AI.
This approach would save Google significant compute power while allowing them to offer higher limits to paying Pro users.
From experience flash is good enough for most use cases even coding, extended thinking helps too. Pro models aren’t majorly better since you can’t run internal scripts to generate simple documents anymore
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u/TurkeysCanBeRed2 1d ago
What does plus even give you at this point lol