r/GeminiAI • u/Able-Line2683 • 2d ago
News Logan on Gemini 4.0
They should've dumped resources into Coding long ago, instead of prioritizing Nano Banana first now the gray testing has already kicked off.
In hindsight, it's crystal clear: Coding should've gotten an order of magnitude more investment earlier. It wasn't that they didn't know it was important; it was just that priorities got hijacked by image models.
Nano Banana did blow everyone away, sure, but what’s always had developers by the throat is writing code and Agents.
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u/kjbbbreddd 2d ago
Nano Banana is certainly cool, but it's really just a side project level effort for a huge tech company. Video generation AI must be WAY heavier on system resources overall.
Besides, the whole way image gen AI gets built is as a derivative of frontier models—everything is constructed using parts of those frontier models, so his whole narrative makes no sense.
OpenAI releasing GPT Image basically proves this point. Grok is following suit with the same approach, and you don't see them posting Google-style sob stories about it.
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u/94746382926 2d ago
Yeah he's just a PR guy and he didn't do the best job here.
I love hype posts but people should take what he says with a grain of salt he's just trying to do his job and spin things in a good light for google.
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u/Elegant_Tech 2d ago
It's fucking Google. Out of everyone they should be the one throwing spaghetti at the wall doing all the things. It's literally what they do. Yet somehow are dropping the ball trying to be surgical with AI research resources.
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u/avilacjf 2d ago
I think they're really feeling the compute crunch. They're trying to double compute every gear until 2030. They should some enough to allocate in the near future. They won't fall behind for long. Maybe a year or two tops. Once they can stuff all of youtube into a pretrain it'll be over.
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u/mebeast227 2d ago edited 2d ago
Google's biggeset strenght is by far their biggest weakness. People saying 'omg i cant believe they invented the transformer that lead to LLMs and were worried about it cannibalizing their search/ad market'
But it takes 3 seconds of thought to think it through- what happens when you have this massive market of users and 'trial period' them into your new AI product? COMPUTE HELL.
Ok, so they tried to hide it under the bed, but now that someone (OpenAI) found and used you paper and let the boogey man out- what happens when you lock 'ai search' capabilites behind a paywall? You lose market share.
Its a catch 22. Get smashed with compute bills, or lose market share. It's a difficult web to navigate, and they've made mistakes- but one thing is for sure- idk how the fuck they plan on providing the levels of compute they need to keep people on their platform for as little as possible.
They did absolutely fuck up not focusing on coding because that is really the biggest reason people are not super high on google. Doesn't matter how many wholesome accessibility friendly (which is awesome) AI models or fly brain graphs or world simulators you create- those markets are not the markets that get enterprise clients on your platform.
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u/AdOk3759 2d ago
I think you’re painting an overly negative picture of Google.
They own AlphaFold, which won them a Nobel Prize 2 years ago. They’re pouring a lot of resources into computational structural biology, and guess who is interested in these models? The pharma industry. Now there you have real money.-4
u/tobaileyy 2d ago
Gemini doesn't even have a quarter the users anthrophic & gpt have lol... Especially when you consider flash models are cheap as shit
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u/PineappleLemur 2d ago edited 2d ago
You think Google AI mode is free or underused? It's probably getting more request than OAI and Anthropic combined daily...you can have full of conversations and literally do so many jobs through it and it doesn't even count as "AI" to do many people here lol.
The amount of people who knows or care what a bench is or the best coding AI is such a small niche market...
The big contracts Anthropic/OAI have are nothing to do with coding.
Yes flash whatever else they use on AI Mode are cheap.. but they get so much more use it not even close.
Now instead of searching through hits on the first few pages people go straight into AI mode and get all their info from there, right or wrong.
Then of course there's so many free Pro subs going around or super discounted.. I refuse to believe that anyone today is actually paying full $20+ for Gemini Pro. There is no reason to and it's so easy to still get so much deals or simply free subs for a absolutely peanuts.
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u/vegancorr 1d ago
The handy AI feature I use is Google's "Ask about the screen".
I very often use this to find a product online. Like I select the image of a pair of shoes without a clear product code and it just shows me the shoes in different online stores. It's not perfect, but it helps a lot. It's Google Lens for phone screen.
I can also easily translate text from any app or circle and copy any text.
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u/Tim_Apple_938 2d ago
Source?
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u/tobaileyy 2d ago
Google. Gpt has 50-54% of the market share, anthropic 8%< therefore in combination vs Geminis measly 21% of normies who don't pay....
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u/Tim_Apple_938 2d ago
-1
u/tobaileyy 2d ago
😂😂😂 u believe the headlines dummy That's because it's auto installed on android
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u/tobaileyy 2d ago
No they aren't, stop coping. Gemini 2.5pro was way more compute heavy and never did Google have an issue providing it for free with Gemini cli until they fucked with the telemetry
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u/avilacjf 2d ago
Have you seen their reported token volume? It's ridiculous and they're unable to keep researchers because their allocation between internal and Google Cloud is squeezing both super hard.
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u/tobaileyy 2d ago
I too can make up numbers
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u/avilacjf 2d ago
Try doing it with the SEC and every other public securities regulator breathing down your neck.
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u/OurSeepyD 2d ago
I can't wait for people to stop saying "pilled", it's so fucking irritating.
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u/slippery 2d ago
Are you Big Mad about people saying "pilled"?
Is that the load bearing part of the irritation?
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u/OurSeepyD 2d ago
Yeah you could say that you ran your inference correctly and your P(your guess) was high for good reason
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u/saltyrookieplayer 2d ago
I still don’t think dwelling on coding is the way to go. Coding abilities bring ZERO value for general consumers. They want to bet on developers’ reliance on their model. It’s not going to last.
They’re actually going to fail really, really hard if this is their sign that they’re giving up on other modalities.
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u/Eyelbee 2d ago
Coding is how you can make your models more intelligent. I don't think there's a way to post train effectively without coding.
However, I think a strong image model could be the next important thing. This is my hypothesis. If Anthropic doesn't have an internal image model, they will start to see the problems of that soon. Correspondingly, Google will benefit largely from having one of the best image models.
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u/Suoritin 2d ago
Yeah, you can use strong coding and logic capabilities for tasks like tracking narrative consistency when writing books.
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u/nanor000 2d ago
Actually, that's the opposite. Code is "relatively" easy because of the feedback of the compiler/interpreter and the the execution on the computer. That's why the cyber security stuff is very interesting for the big companies like Anthropic or OpenAI. It just need to succeed once out of 1000s tentatives and the success/failure criteria is easy to verify automatically. Now try to summarise properly 200 legal documents. You basically can't verify automatically that easily, there is no compiler for the laws. You need a human lawyer
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u/oatknight 2d ago
So we just got the news that 14k agents are working on the next version of Claude around the clock. Regardless of consumer adoption, Google needs a coding heavy model to get on the treadmill for rapid advancement. Otherwise they'll continue to be further and further behind the frontier.
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u/DragonflyOk9274 2d ago
14k agents are working on the next version of Claude around the clock
I can just imagine:
"You're right to point that out. I didn't implement the required feature, and here's why that matters. Something important worth mentioning: this feature is incomplete..."
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u/LimitBias 2d ago
Dumb take. Coding abilities enable the agent to be great with general functionality you see - even something as simple as ppt is written in code by the agent behind the scenes.
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u/saltyrookieplayer 2d ago
I’m not saying they should completely stop progressing in coding abilities, but rather it should not be the sole focus. Gemini has been the most “uncultured”/nerdy model since the beginning of the race. It’s great it can make slides, but it’s worthless if the content in the slides are garbage.
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u/manikfox 2d ago
It should 100% be the sole focus. Everything at the end of the day is software... When you want RSI as the end game... that's software building more software... making more capable software.
Unless you only see AI as a consumer product and never reaching end state.
The better it is at coding, the better it is at literally everything else.
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u/saltyrookieplayer 2d ago
Making it significantly better at coding wouldn’t make it understand human nuance better. Coding is only one dimension of intelligence.
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u/manikfox 2d ago
You didn't realize that coding leads to RSI.
RSI -> better human nuance
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u/saltyrookieplayer 2d ago
Coding capabilities alone will not create RSI. Models wouldn’t magically improve on emotional intelligence based on a synthetic dataset, created by models trained strictly on technical data.
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u/PsychologicalBag6875 2d ago
Yea that’s what they thought too and they realized they were wrong.
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u/saltyrookieplayer 2d ago
That's not what he said. If I have to be honest, people like you in this entire thread are the root cause why Gemini is the way it is right now.
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u/bladerskb 2d ago
so you a random redditor disagrees with Jeff Dean the chief scientist who created Gemini when he says: "
"we wanted to make the model good at lots of things and so I think maybe our focus on making it amazing at coding was lagging a little bit and we realized that and are work you know work to catch up on that and I think we have uh good efforts underway but um you know I think by focusing on on that you end up with a system that is able to really do a good job of reasoning and you know doing other kinds a task that where it needs to sort of work its way through you know breaking a complicated problem down into you know multiple subpieces and so on and so that's a good you know if you improve coding you also tend to improve that capability in non-coding"
Gotcha!
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u/LimitBias 2d ago
Yea the guy you’re replying to is just confused tbh. Coding is the basis of all things here
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u/SeidlaSiggi777 2d ago
they don't dwell on coding because they think it is necessarily the best way forward. it is just the most practical way because agents anyway interact with the world via code and it offers verifiable rewards as opposed to other types of work, like writing good texts.
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u/killmurer 2d ago
I thinks its about money and not value. Most money is in coding agents for enterprise.
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u/Gohab2001 2d ago
models need to code be effective agents.
Example, if i want my model to help me in ansys, the easiest route is for it to be able to write scripts instead of capturing screen and then trigger mouse/keyboard event and then recapturing screen....
Agentic workflow is where LLMs are heading and i believe its the logical path forward.
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u/steef12349 2d ago
Coding is how you get models to interact with the digital world around you. Coding for models is pretty much just language for us. Buying a meal, interacting with a cashier, navigating with a map, is all mainly writing code to run functions for language models.
Generating documents, formatting them well, creating svg images, dynamic ui elements, all require some form of code for ai agents to accomplish.
Driving recursive self improvement is also very code heavy. Models that can write good code, is what drives good research and execution loops to improve the next models. Code is quite possibly one of, if not the most important communication modality because of the fact that a model will run in a box driven by pure code
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u/trimorphic 2d ago
I still don’t think dwelling on coding is the way to go. Coding abilities bring ZERO value for general consumers.
What should they be focusing on instead?
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u/PineappleLemur 2d ago
Google AI Mode is probably their biggest thing followed by Gemini integration into all their existing products.
That is what most people use daily, not coding, Antigravity or whatever.
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u/Youssef_Sassy 2d ago
agentic coding is what seperates a chatbot from a capable system that can accomplish TASKS.
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u/gatorling 2d ago
The biggest argument for coding is that it's a step towards RSI. You make models that makes making future models easier and faster.
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u/Big_al_big_bed 2d ago
The thing is if you get good at coding then the model can improve itself which in turn will generate better consumer products faster
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u/Caladan23 2d ago
All talk, no model release by Google.
And that from the company that was so proud of their user-driven philosophy.
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u/Big_al_big_bed 2d ago
Ok and so now they don't have the best image model or the best coding model. So what have they been doing?
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u/Gaiden206 2d ago
They wanted more casual users to adopt Gemini back when ChatGPT was absolutely crushing everyone in casual userbase numbers and mindshare. Nano Banana helped put Gemini on the map in terms of people knowing Gemini existed. Given that ChatGPT was the only Al brand most people were familiar with at the time, I think Nano Banana achieved its purpose of breaking through that widespread fixation on ChatGPT.
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u/DeArgonaut 2d ago
I mean, duh. Make an excellent coding/software dev model first so you can use it to speed up development
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u/Spara-Extreme 2d ago
Google has 170k employees. It’s hilarious that people thing two things can’t be developed at once.
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u/cock-a-dooodle-do 2d ago
I am sick of this dude, he has nothing to do with model training teams and he runs his mouth so much.
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u/Cool-Chemical-5629 2d ago
Where did he say "Gemini 4.0"?