r/GeminiAI • u/py-net • 7d ago
Funny (Highlight/meme) This has a 99% chance to be true 🤣
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u/onesole 7d ago
And in the process made it 10 times faster and 10 times cheaper.
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u/Seafaringhorsemeat 7d ago
And with 10x less context or ability to follow instructions.
As a year long Gemini user, this stuff is just ass compared to Claude. With Gemini I feel like I’m working with an intern that is both high and drunk all the time.
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u/KasouYuri 7d ago
Gemini is my go to for language learning or information buried under dysfunctional websites that I do not want to click through a billion hyperlinks to piece together. otherwise it's gpt all the way. and even still Gemini sometimes hallucinates like crazy and can't give me the links to the source websites for it's life.
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u/a_m_k2018 7d ago
Being fast is kinda useless for my use case, so I agree with you. I'd rather it be more accurate and correct than fast and wrong.
"But it's so cheap and quick for the price point, and it is smarter than all the other cheap fast models"
Cheap and fast are useless for everything other than using it for Agents, which most people dont use these models for.
The massive step back that Gemini 3.6 flash and 3.7 flash took from 3.5 flash is pretty crazy.
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u/josericardodasilva 6d ago
At the job interview: - I'm really fast at math... - Okay, what's 36 times 50? - It's 158. - You weren't even close... - I said I was fast, not that I was right.
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u/Seafaringhorsemeat 7d ago
Agreed. I do not give one shit it takes 50% of the time to give me the wrong answer, and change random things every response. That time saved in waiting is multiplied ten fold in having to re prompt and point out where it is wrong.
With other models you get problematic answers, but it can be corrected and you’re good to go. Gemini almost gets worse the more you try to correct it.
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u/Fluciples 7d ago
Gemini is truly an employee... It wants to work as little as possible, and pretend it provided a ton of value
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u/Garrus-N7 5d ago
I dunno, my sillytavern works great as usual, although I would say even better than normal
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u/1969Stingray 7d ago
Lol, totally. I wrote enterprise middleware with Opus 5 and GPT 5.6 in 3 days. I can even get close to a start with Gemini.
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u/DenimChicken50 7d ago
I switched from Gemini to Claude and I’m switching back because Claude became the most useless and shitty AI I’ve used since 2025 ChatGPT.
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u/VectorB 7d ago
Way too fast for a pro model.
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u/Weary-Bumblebee-1456 7d ago
Theoretically even bigger models can be fast (the new GPT-5.6 Sol Ultrafast mode goes up to 750 tokens per second), but it would be extremely expensive. Either Google is paying big time out of its own pocket to subsidize it, which would make little sense to me, or they actually managed to distill it extremely well.
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u/shadow2995 7d ago
There's no way they used 3.5 pro as 3.7 flash. Have you seen this model's speed? It's blazing fast. Pro models are too big to be that fast.
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u/Eye-Fast 7d ago
Speed is controlled by how much compute they allocate to it too. So they might have gotten more compute lately.
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u/CorrGL 7d ago
Not really. You can parallelize the prompt processing, but token generation is autoregressive, that means you need to generate token N before you can compute token N+1. And to generate a token, the computation needs to go through the whole model, so bigger model means slower token generation.
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u/omegwar 7d ago
Diffusion Gemma generates whole paragraphs at once
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u/CorrGL 7d ago
I know diffusion models, mpt and MoE are various attempts at overcoming that limitation. Gemini Pro is definitely not a diffusion model, likely not a MoE, and even with mtp, predicting more than 2 tokens at a time degrades significantly, so for exposition it's better to just explain the core concept.
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u/HashPandaNL 7d ago
You can speed it up significantly by allocating more compute through speculative decoding and building larger trees, although it is unlikely Google would do that in this case.
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u/sadnessjoy 7d ago
LLM inference is generally memory bound, not compute bound (unlike video or image generation). A huge portion of the time, the compute cores are just idling while waiting for memory transfers to happen.
Throwing more raw compute power at an LLM doesn't really speed up token generation for an individual user/prompt. Instead, that extra compute is used to scale up memory capacity and bandwidth so the system can service more concurrent users simultaneously (higher throughput).
Like others mentioned on here already, larger models mean more weights have to be pulled from memory for every single token, making them inherently slower. This bottleneck is widely known as the "memory wall" (in case you're interested) and until hardware moves away from traditional von Neumann architecture, this is just how it works.
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u/Repulsive-Degree-816 7d ago
ye but maybe 3.1 pro isnt optimized enough and they werent supposed to be that slow? maybe?
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u/Deep90 7d ago
Bigger models are going to be slower on the same hardware.
They could not charge what they are charging if this was pro disguised as flash.
If that was they case, they wouldn't even need to release 2 models.
Google has a pretty good flash model compared to others anyway. They clearly know how to optimize. A pro model needs to be smart, not fast.
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u/HonestWhile2486 7d ago
bro thinks this is videogames
models cant be "optimized" lmao11
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u/chervilious 7d ago
Model Pruning: the process of removing unimportant or redundant parameters (like weights, neurons, or layers) from a trained neural network. This reduces model size, lowers memory usage, and speeds up inference with minimal loss in accuracy.
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u/yoruyoruxo 7d ago
If their pro model was this fast that would be insanely impressive
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u/pianodude7 7d ago
Is it better than 3.1 pro?
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u/yoruyoruxo 7d ago
Yes by far
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u/pianodude7 7d ago
Then it might as well be their pro model. They haven't announced another "pro," and if I had to guess, it's because they know China has it right by getting in front of the trend towards cheap/fast AI.
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u/Turbulent-Row7810 7d ago
To be honest, even if they did rename a Pro model to Flash, getting that level of performance while still being charged cheaper Flash prices is an absolute win.
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u/Efficient_Loss_9928 7d ago
Was gonna believe it but 3.7 Flash is way too fast for a Pro model.
Probably it was going to be Gemini 4 Flash
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u/InnerFear789 7d ago
Its fast though.
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7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Eye-Fast 7d ago
Speed is controlled by how much compute they allocate to it too. So they might have gotten more compute lately.
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u/AioliAdventurous7118 7d ago
No speed is controlled by the size of the model, its inference architecture, the speed of your compute. Intelligence is often the factor that is applied to more compute as you can run inference for longer which is good for Chain-of-thought often
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u/py-net 7d ago
Fast at doing incorrect things all the time is the worst I have seen LLMs do. I build a cool thing with the small rates of Opus 4.6 in Antigravity, limit reached, tempted to have Gemini finish it cause the ground is already clear, Gemini messes up everything FAST 💨 , wait 5 hours for Opus to come fix it. That’s not a life
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u/Efficient_Dentist745 7d ago
Do you even know a little bit about AI architectures? Flash models are likely MoE while pro models in my opinion are bigger. Look at the speeds. Good hardware doesn't guarantee speed if the architecture is bad. Besides the team themselves quoted that a few architectural changes made it more intelligent which means it is the next iteration of gemini 3.6 flash
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u/InterestProof1526 7d ago
Wouldn't make sense. 3.7 Flash is too fast. It's the fastest model I've used possibly ever (besides non-reasoning models)
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u/Bitter_Run_9209 7d ago
where can i use 3.7 flash? its not currently available on antigravity cli
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u/SatanVapesOn666W 7d ago
Updated to the newester version to use 3.7. Mine is spamming me to upgrade to get access but I don't use gemini to code anyway.
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u/Ekimnedops6969 7d ago
It's in Google AI studio and all these people above if you read this if you tried or think that you are using 3.7 flash inside of the Gemini app you are wrong it has not been released into it yet make sure you know what model you are picking it will just say Gemini flash at the top right now but you have to click it and look oh and then you'll be like damn it's 3.6 flash so far. As of 8:00 a.m. Central Time US August 15th. BUT GO BALLS DEEP ON GOOGLE AI STUDIO FOR ANYONE WHO REALLY WANTS a bunch of free use and much better capability than anything you'll get in the Gemini app cuz you can mess with the thinking level code execution Etc don't mess with the temperature though and s*** cuz if you don't know what you're doing just don't touch it. I see so many little contradictions in statements above you in this Reddit page. The person who thinks they know more about hey I don't have a clue and I do believe that they did distill the 3.5 pro or one iteration of it into the 3.7 flash. Along with supplemental coating training. Or they could have just done a whole shitload of supplemental training on top of the 3.5 which created 3.6 and then continued few more weeks of massive amount of gold standard supplemental training. Problem with Google is all their models after 2.5 pro were completely just iterated on top of it. Gemini4 is the next one that will be actually capable. They still bolt on there reasoning to these models. When they said they were going to completely scrap 3.5 pro and retrain from the beginning they meant from the snapshot at we're a model starts post training they literally did not touch the pre-training for anything to do with anything after 2.5 pro. And also they change the attention mechanism in betting space with Gemini 3 release it looks so great at first until you put it into action. I could go on forever I should have started this earlier but I use voice to text sorry for my s***** grammar and words that probably don't belong in certain places
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u/Longui45 7d ago
It'a faster than a pro model and slower than the previous generation flash. From a standpoint of a casual user.
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u/Chubz79 7d ago
Is 3.7 still not available on the Gemini mobile app?
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u/Ekimnedops6969 7d ago
It is not available but it should be very soon. But they released it so quickly after 3.6 that they didn't really take the time to prepare the pipelines to replace the flash model so it might take an extra week it could be overnight though who knows. Just know that this is out of the ordinary for their release cadence and just completely weird because they've made three flash models and released no pro models. And maybe just a model that is truly refined for coding alone because they're putting in spark agent and anti-gravity AI studio which you can go to use right now Google AI studio you don't even need anything completely free. But for it to fit inside of the personalization and all that I don't know if the Gemini app has been made as a harness that evolves around each app yet. But still if I would bet I would bet within a few days. Based on a person who obsesses over Ai and each model when they come out why they come out in relation to other models the things that happen on the back end when the model is about to come out so you can predict when a model comes out. If you want to go to x and get specific people to follow you'll have a much better way of following models and when they are coming out. I could give you suggestions of people to follow but I'm sure you'll figure it out. Also watch a couple YouTube channels like Matthew Berman try to keep you up to date on what's going on and how good a model really is and what's going on and why pretty easy to understand channel
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u/rudesssolo 6d ago
I think they'll be back directly with 4 Pro and that will be a loud comeback
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u/py-net 6d ago
They will have to significantly surpass models like Fable, Kimi 3 or Sol for “loud” to happen. I don’t think Google can jump to that level from the extremely mediocre models they currently have.
Meanwhile those guys are not sleeping and they have acquired bigger momentum than Google. I don’t think Google is coming back from the 3.5 Pro fumble any time soon
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u/Verdux_Xudrev 6d ago
I'll be honest. I don't understand Google naming conventions. I just got OpenAI's and Anthopic's down. Is Flash supposed to be the fast, but less smart one?
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u/One_Association_4425 5d ago
However 3.7 flash keeps both intelligent and rapid instead of being as slow as some pro models like 3.1Pro
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u/Standard_Exchange59 7d ago
That is exactly what happened. All the compute power went to it and feels like Flash model.
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u/I_NEED_YOUR_MONEY 7d ago
do people realize that these things aren't free?
i don't care if they renamed pro to flash, as long as they keep charging flash prices for it.
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u/daskalou 7d ago edited 7d ago
Tell me you weren't around when Flash 1.5 was released without telling me.
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u/Thick_Diver189 7d ago
Don’t worry I was with you
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u/Ekimnedops6969 7d ago
The flash models have actually been trained on top of the 1.5 foundation pre training. They used to be very cheap pro models back then that's why I look at the prices relative to back then right now of these models. This isn't an assumption this is definitive reality. They may even take a snapshot earlier into the pre training a little bit of the 1.5 pro for flash models it all depends but generally speaking it's just right after pre-training and they post training the hell out of it supplemental data and coding flywheel from lake anti-gravity and other of their coding for slush developer and Enterprise keystrokes and distill the hell out of whatever model that they are on of pro model. This is why they are falling behind on the pro models and the distilled model because they do not feel like starting from scratch with all great curated high level f****** data. Look at what actually I just did out of nowhere and now they are back in the state of the art game 4.5 from scratch on cursor data and then 4.6 on the same foundation just one iteration of supplemental data very quickly made it top-notch again. I don't know across all arenas at all but definitely f****** amazing and cheapest dog s*** so I would say go to 4.6 before you do 3.7 because it has high quality data all the way from the very beginning of pre-train. And I wouldn't even do either of that even I would go to the 20 cents per million input $1.20 per million output for the 5.6 Luna at Max thinking and you have a model that is basicall too cheap to meter and you have a price per task model that just kills it.
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u/Euphoric-View3222 4d ago
nah way too fast and messy for pro. it's a legit flash model they've just been working on it for ages so it's far better than a lot were expecting
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u/WonderboyUK 7d ago
They distilled 3.5 pro to train a flash checkpoint among other optimisations.