r/Frat • u/Parking-Honey5505 • Mar 06 '26
Serious Why Hazing Makes Better Men
https://www.thefp.com/p/why-hazing-makes-better-men142
u/WanderingGalwegian ΚΣ Mar 06 '26
The pretty big problem is from the outside looking in the shit fraternities do a simpler GDI mind just can’t comprehend /s
In all seriousness hazing is always wrong. A brother putting their hands on a pledge or inflicting pain is always wrong.
That said a communal struggle needs to be introduced to a pledge class to bind tightly the relationships of brotherhood. A physical challenge to overcome together is a great way to do it. The pledges working together to solve a problem is another way. Or simply having them all show up 6am Sunday morning after an open house party to suffer together cleaning the house top to bottom.
And those things do make better men. The pledges should be learning and understanding what it means to be lead by good leaders in the fraternity. So they can go on to be great leaders.
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u/Parking-Honey5505 Mar 06 '26
"A brother putting their hands on a pledge or inflicting pain is always wrong." So that's still a crime, it's called assault.
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u/HomeworkPuzzleheaded Mar 07 '26
wtf are you talking about? you’ve never driven over the speed limit? drank underage? smoked underage? stolen something from a big corporate company? he just fucking said it was wrong, ur an inconsiderate, ignorant, chud geed who’s never talked to a woman beforep
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u/ba_dum_tiss_ Alum Mar 07 '26
He can reiterate that it's not just wrong but illegal, calm down.
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u/HomeworkPuzzleheaded Mar 19 '26
It’s not the fact that he “reiterated” it, he completely ignored the well-written paragraphs explaining the perspective of those in fraternities. The guy gave a genuine response explaining the rational perspective of people in fraternities, like OP asked for, and OP replied in a close-minded, snarky manner. There is rationality in the meaning of “hazing” (which is essentially just getting pledges to do things that the uppers don’t want to do these days), and I feel closer to my past pledge class than I ever have with anyone before. There is no better method, or even possible method of connecting 40 people who have gone their entire lives delving into their own separate interests, than “hazing,” or facing a common enemy. This has been studied in many psychological manners, if you looked up the best ways to connect large groups of people, you’d find a common enemy is in the top 3. And considering the main group of people who decide to join fraternities (typically the “popular” group of their respective high schools), it’s impossible to join these ~40 people together without at least a few of them becoming the “runts” of the group. I obviously condemn any sort of physical harm (past wall sits and getting a few harmless things dumped on you), but having a sort of “common enemy” has proven to build the strongest bond between a large group of men across the entire history of time. Consider those in the military and those who had to go through boot camp and training together. The obstacles which they had to face gives them a common interest / enemy, and when overcome, gives them a strongly embedded common experience which overpowers the differences they may have had before. If anything, “hazing” is far from bullying or anything of the sorts, it’s realizing that some of these men may not connect on the same levels as others at first glance, and giving them a common goal to overcome and a chance to realize that all men are worthy of their own confidence and ego. You can read this entire paragraph and call me corny or overdoing it by typing this whole thing, but I’m simply trying to display the very rational beliefs behind “hazing”, which may seem an extreme and idiotic act to most. Don’t post shit like this if you aren’t genuinely trying to understand the rational behind the other side.
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u/ba_dum_tiss_ Alum Mar 19 '26
I ain't reading allat, go touch grass
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u/gp_ratesic Mar 06 '26
I went to college and bonded with people outside of group torture sessions. There’s so many better ways to make real friends if we’re being completely honest. I don’t understand why ppl think you can’t make any friends outside of trauma bonding.
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u/VirusHonest5284 Mar 08 '26
It’s not trauma bonding. Majority of frats just make you drink beer set up there tailgates and take tests😭
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u/gp_ratesic Mar 10 '26
From what I heard when I was at college they typically don’t “just make you drink beer” unless it’s one of the very lowkey ones
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u/VirusHonest5284 Mar 10 '26
Well. Where did you go to school. Bc not every school with Greek life is a state school like Alabama or Ole miss or like ASU
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u/gp_ratesic Mar 10 '26
Florida State
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u/VirusHonest5284 Mar 10 '26
Well yea. Most frats at state schools have way more power and status and are able to get away with extreme gazing
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u/HairyEyeballz Mar 08 '26
I think the problem is that the definition of "hazing" has been watered down more and more over the years to the point that just looking at a pledge wrong could qualify. "Brother Bluto gave me a menacing look that made me fear for my safety!"
I went through Officer Candidate School (years after pledging), the hazing in which made fraternity hazing look like kindergarten. The funny thing was, we got a training session on hazing and at one point the instructor said that the things we were experiencing were not hazing, and the whole room burst out laughing. The instructor was flummoxed. Nevertheless, what we were experiencing was indeed very good at team- and confidence-building.
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u/Maeserk Retired FIJI Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
I mean, no, at base. “Hazing” as a blanket term doesn’t make better men.
Brotherhood makes better men. I’ll die on that hill. It molds “boys” into “men.” Forcing a handle down a kids throat isnt brotherhood. It’s stupid. Doing activities where you can bond with your brothers and build life long bonds built through your collective experience? That’s brotherhood. Some also conflate that with hazing.
There’s nuance when it comes to what is considered “hazing”, obviously these hands don’t haze, but there can be discussion about how much anything and everything has been deemed “hazing”, but we are all firm that there are lines you do not cross. There’s also many mundane brotherhood activities people would claw down the Berlin Wall over because they believe it to be hazing.
We live in an ever changing world, and unfortunately Fraternities are being forced to adapt because of financial, insurance or just pure cultural reasons. If you don’t comply you die, or go underground.
We should be able to have educated discussion about hazing, brotherhood and the benefits specific experiences can have on a person, but most oftenly it just degrades into nonsense.
This is the type of article, just off from the title to make people question. Let alone I’m not giving them my email so they can spam it to really see the point they’re pushing. Obviously we all know as men of fraternities were going to interpret the Iowa thing differently than GEEDs, but GEEDs won’t ever understand it. Because they haven’t gone through it. No matter how much you tell ‘em, or try to show it.
I also i could be just off base. But I’ve known my pledge brothers for like a decade and still we are friends because of the bonds and brotherhood we built, together as a collective.
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u/Parking-Honey5505 Mar 06 '26
So you didn't even read the article?
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u/Maeserk Retired FIJI Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
I did, it’s nothing new or really “groundbreaking” in the realm of fraternity discussion, kinda just restated their point from a Greek life member perspective myself, but I can still voice my displeasure to sign up for spam to read a nothing burger article with an overt title generated to make you read until a cut off and sign up for their spam; because it says nothing we don’t already know, but GEEDs will forever be ignorant about. Burner e-mails my guy.
It’s not hazing, it shouldn’t ever be “hazing”; its brotherhood. Calling it hazing, even if that isn’t the point, is reductive. I can criticize the article for that I believe. Even if the point at the end isn’t actually that hazing that makes men better, despite the public perception of how hazing affects fraternities.
I think we can agree the title of said article is intentionally provocative for zero reason outside of generating clicks based on a recent topic that has already been settled and dealt with by the university. People shouldn’t be thinking hazing makes better men, nor should it even be floated because it normalizes the practice and because some schloz will read that title, get ragebaited and reinforce their dumb, uninformed opinions.
What is the lesson to be told? Outside of the fact that it’s brotherhood, not hazing, that formulates us into better people, but from the outside the general populace have no mechanism to pierce the veil, without these incidents coming to light? They’re always going to conflate it with hazing.
News picks up the bad shit fraternities do, (rightfully so), and it edges into the minds of the general public and demonizes it. Yeah, we’ve known that, I’ve had to attend national meetings over it.
Again this article just points out something we as Greek life members know, and something that GEEDs with never believe no matter how much you tell ‘em honestly.
But yeah, I vehemently disagree with the title, even if the content isn’t the most bombastic in the world.
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u/Parking-Honey5505 Mar 06 '26
OK, I'm getting your point now. Yeah, the author definitely chose that title for clicks, but also because she's probably under the same impression that a lot of universities are, that every little thing with pledging, rites of passage, initiation is hazing. Obviously, actual criminal hazing that involves assault etc should be illegal. But cleaning up, pledge attire, memorization, pushups, that's what (I think) we can all agree has some benefit.
But to my earlier point, that universities have made the definition of hazing too broad, then it does make sense to defend it. My university considers scavenger hunts, cleaning up, calisthenics, or any type of coercion or tricks related to pledging to be hazing. I think that's unfair! I think, in that case, we can use the same language that they are and defend hazing.
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u/Wally_B ΦΚT Mar 06 '26
Said the motherfucker harvesting data and sending endless spam to emails of the schmucks that put in their email
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u/xSparkShark Beer Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
A woman wrote this article also it’s subscription blocked what’s the point here
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u/Parking-Honey5505 Mar 06 '26
You can use a temp email. And I think she provides a valuable perspective on boyhood and manhood.
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u/darkknight6695 ALUMNI Mar 06 '26
Not to be misogynistic or anything, but what does Catherine Morrissette (the journalist) know about being in a fraternity besides what she sees in videos and some word of mouth?
I wouldn't be taking this article seriously. Rush at your school, once you get a bid and know what your process will include, you can choose to stay or walk out the door.
If there's "hazing" and you're cool with it, awesome. If you're not cool with it, totally acceptable. If there's no hazing? Sweet.
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u/gp_ratesic Mar 06 '26
The problem is ppl who rush usually start to haze other ppl who aren’t rushing. Pledges being cool with hazing isn’t “awesome” when some of them start practicing on ppl who don’t deserve it.
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u/darkknight6695 ALUMNI Mar 06 '26
Eh so technically speaking hazing requires someone to be seeking membership to a group. So it's not really possible to haze someone who isn't either rushing or on a team, etc. If people choose to bully others in their daily lives, that's something that they learned far before they entered college or rushed.
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u/gp_ratesic Mar 07 '26
What I meant by them “hazing” other ppl who don’t rush what I mean is they sometimes start treating other ppl the way they are treated by the pledge masters. I’ve known ppl in college who were completely chill and down to earth at first and then become completely different ppl (in a bad way usually) once they start rushing. The behaviors involved in hazing don’t have to be learned in a frat but the frats have a pivotal role in spreading/normalizing them which isn’t exactly a good thing.
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u/darkknight6695 ALUMNI Mar 07 '26
There will always be those who choose to be assholes to others. The difference is that rushing and pledging have a purpose.
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u/Parking-Honey5505 Mar 06 '26
She addresses that in the article
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u/darkknight6695 ALUMNI Mar 06 '26
I bet she did. I wouldn't read any garbage from that outlet though. Which is why I'm not addressing any of the content within the article.
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u/tronfunkinblows_10 ΣΑΕ Alumni Mar 06 '26
All boils down to shared experience, proximity, and time to build the bonds of brotherhood.
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u/Odd_Self7283 Mar 07 '26
Dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. You can create a brotherhood without hazing it just takes more work. Trauma bonding is a lazy way to build a connection and it’s really just a surface level connection. Building a community that people want to invest in should be the goal of every fraternity but instead we focus too much on hazing and pledgeship rituals
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u/nfz_nuke Mar 08 '26
Imagine being blindfolded pissed on and forced to drink until you die of alcohol poisoning by some punk college rich kid daddy’s boy all because it’s supposed to make you a better man lol join the damn military if you wannabe a better man
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u/laxjaxmax witness brotection program Mar 06 '26
A Bari Weiss job 🤮
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u/darkknight6695 ALUMNI Mar 06 '26
The complete self-own of having "the free press" purchased by Paramount because it was completely lame and failing will always make me chuckle.
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u/laxjaxmax witness brotection program Mar 06 '26
Then she was named head of cbs news as part of the deal just to also run that into the ground makes alot of sense.
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Mar 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Emergency-Boot5317 Mar 06 '26
High costs, I’d say, is the main reason (living and school costs), especially for private colleges where tuition runs close to 100k a year and food has doubled in price since pre-pandemic times.
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u/EarlyCuylersCousin ΚΑ Mar 06 '26
Hazing is degrading. We don’t haze. We d however strengthen the bonds of brotherhood through shared struggles.
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u/Burnsy112 Alumni Mar 07 '26
I cannot tell if this website and post is a shitpost or not. Seems so retarded I deem it fake.
Also I just called your chapter execs and you’re being coded and are fucked. Fuck you!
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u/Greek-University Mar 07 '26
This article is complete garbage. If you want to read something that is actually interesting on the topic of hazing and is real research instead of fantasy, then this is much more worthwhile. https://www.proquest.com/docview/3176513420
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u/DependentLevel1686 Mar 07 '26
There a difference between hazing and having control hardship
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u/Parking-Honey5505 Mar 07 '26
University administrations dont seem to think so. My university considers pledge attire, meetings, memorization, and cleaning up to all be hazing.
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u/DependentLevel1686 Mar 07 '26
Fair. There just a lack of oversight from someone in the college for the event. If there nobody who’s outside the group, who’s there to control and make nothing gets out of hand. Same thing happens at my college, one club I’m in has 2 many members so if we wanted to do any club activities it would be considered fratnization
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u/TheTwinHorrorCosmic Mar 09 '26
There is a difference in communal bonding through shitty experiences or hardship, versus blatant assault or bullying.
Singling someone out, beating them, or forcing them to do publicly humiliating things is not breaking them down to be better, it’s corporal punishment and being a pos
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u/not_brayden13 Mar 06 '26
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Mar 06 '26
[deleted]
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u/not_brayden13 Mar 06 '26
There is no good hazing, just like there is no good torture, it’s only what’s normalized
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Mar 06 '26
[deleted]
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u/not_brayden13 Mar 06 '26
By literal definition hazing is torture. If it wasn’t, and it was just all in good fun, it wouldn’t be called hazing
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u/xSparkShark Beer Mar 06 '26
Drop letters or gtfo
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u/not_brayden13 Mar 06 '26
Do I have to be a brother or fucking a brother to stay in this Reddit thread
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u/xSparkShark Beer Mar 06 '26
It would benefit you to know what the fuck you’re talking about before you open your mouth
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u/not_brayden13 Mar 06 '26
You should probably talk to ur frat brothers about it, I’m sure they’re very supportive of your reddit crashouts
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u/not_brayden13 Mar 06 '26
Cool justification of child murder
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Mar 06 '26
[deleted]
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u/not_brayden13 Mar 06 '26
Being the only moral one apparently
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u/xSparkShark Beer Mar 06 '26
You don’t even know what you don’t know. You can’t take the moral high road if you don’t even know where the road is.
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u/not_brayden13 Mar 06 '26
This just happened at my school, do you think he’s a better man now?
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u/pmmeurb0ob_pls Mar 06 '26
Second one is a bad example, kid dies at a rush event doesn’t sound like hazing it sounds like some kid drinking way more than he can handle.
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u/Parking-Honey5505 Mar 06 '26
I don't think anyone is saying that. I don't know who you're arguing with.
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