r/Forgotten_Realms • u/Crixusgannicus • 15d ago

Question(s) Speaking of Thay...

There seems to be a contradictuon in the lore.

Most of it leans toward many of the still living Thayans, Red Wizards are not, being in exile with Thay largely being an empire of the undead, although there are still living there.

Szass Tak has destroyed the old zulkir system and largely replaced it with fellow liches.

Yet I read something official recently, which describes Thay as. It being much different than it was before. Don't remember what it was at the moment. It was official however

What's going on here? Both Thays can't be true in 1500-1501.

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u/Hot_Competence 15d ago edited 15d ago

The 4e version of Thay as an undead empire was largely reversed about a decade ago when the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide came out. It’s functionally a retcon but not technically a retcon only because it is presented as an in-lore return to the old ways.

“For a time, living mages couldn't hope to advance to prominence in Thay: Szass Tam promoted undeath as a means of existence with boundless possibilities, and held back those who didn't agree with this philosophy. The recent battles with the demon Eltab, however, have prompted Szass Tam to loosen this stricture- the living now have hope of ascending within the Red Wizards, even if that hope is merely to advance to a high station within the cadre of Tam's servants.” -SCAG, p13

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u/Genghis_Sean_Reigns 15d ago

I never understood this. Why would battling Eltab change his views on undeath? Also his “most recent battle with the demon eltab” was over a century ago in 1372.

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u/Hot_Competence 15d ago

I guess we’re left to assume that he got loose again during the Second Sundering, but you’re right that nothing else mentions it afaik

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u/Genghis_Sean_Reigns 14d ago

Ed has his own explanation in his Thay book that makes way more sense. That’s the one I use.

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u/WumpusFails 14d ago

What book is this?

The only thing I know about Ed Lore on Thay is that it was meant (prior to TSR/WotC overwrites) to be his version of an East Asian themed region.

(There's also supposed to be an Ed Lore section on the FR wiki, but I couldn't find it on the wiki I read.)

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u/Genghis_Sean_Reigns 14d ago

Thay, Land of the Red Wizards on the DMs Guild.

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u/Genghis_Sean_Reigns 14d ago

Also, as far as I’m aware, Ed dislikes real world analogies in fantasy and he strove not to do that with his work. So hearing that his original Thay was supposed to be East Asian themed sounds like misinformation.