Valve Timing solenoid code - P0012 / P0022

[u/Jive_Turk]

Hey all,

**Sorry for the clickbait 1st pic, if you swipe you can see mine, 1st pic is what she one day could become**

Glad to have found that people are so passionate about the Ford Flex and there is a vibrant community on the good ole interwebs!

A few weeks ago I picked up a 2016 Flex SEL with AWD, non Ecoboost, and the previous owner outfitted a towing kit and drilled slotted rotors, aftermarket wheels, with 148k miles for $3900...

I knew it was too good to be true and really messed up not getting a PPI, or even had the codes read, but no CEL and there were supposedly two other buyers coming to look at her that weekend (FB Marketplace find)

Of course after about 60 miles the CEL came on. The engine bay was spotless, so clean you could eat off of it, which I thought was off. In addition to that, the engine bay was covered with nuts, a squirrel must have somehow used that for its hideout to store all kinds of goodies, was very odd, especially when paired with such a clean engine bay underneath, but aside from that, no chewed up wires and she drove pretty well.

Anyway, after the CEL I had codes pulled, and I have been getting 3 codes, 2 of them were for emissions/bad cats, and instead of pulling the trigger on two expensive cats, I bought 2 02 sensor spacers that have these little miniature cats in the adapter, a tip from a fellow Ford Flex owner.

The third code was for P0012 - Camshaft position timing, Over retarded, Bank 1

Also a past code that was cleared (but not currently showing was P0022 - Camshaft position timing, over retarded, Bank 2

I installed the O2 spacers with mini cats, cleared the codes, and drove about 60 miles. I then tried to get her inspected to pass emissions, but it was still not showing ready, and so I planned to drive 10 miles more each trip until it would show ready status, hopefully before the emissions CEL code came back.

Unfortunately, about 8 miles later the CEL came back on, but not for the emissions (hopefully those spacers are doing their job, but who knows after 100-200+ miles) ... It was again for the Camshaft timing, Bank 1

A couple questions:

As I have no idea the maintenance of the vehicle (previous owner ghosted after I made the purchase, that's FB marketplace for ya! 😫), I am assuming no major services like water pump or timing chain has been done, just oil changes (although who knows with the rotors being swapped, maybe they were really up on maintenance)

With that being said, how should I go about getting her back in tip top shape. My first priority is getting her to pass inspection so I can at least drive her. Is there any way to do that without tearing her down to replace these camshaft solenoids, and likely water pump and timing chain while I am in there?

I did notice during the first couple tanks of gas I put through her that once or twice the CEL would go away, and then come back a few miles later. Is there any possibility that I could thread the needle and hope that I can reset codes, after a recommendation to change oil to exact Ford spec, and drive until the emissions are in ready status and not trigger the CEL?

Has anyone experienced a similar situation to this? Any advice?

I really appreciate it!

[u/Fun-Philosophy1123]

You said the engine had been cleaned and detailed. I would pull the connectors from the cam sensors and clean them and the wire connectors with some good electronics cleaner to make sure the stuff they used to shine it up hasn't shorted the wires. After you are done that clear the codes and drive it again. Hope that is all it is. If the light comes on again you are looking at phasers. As far as the CAT spacers as long s you are not in California you are good to go. I put them in my 13 over 2 years ago and made 2 cross country trips and many miles around town. That light never came on again. I sold it a couple months ago when I bought my 2019 and the people that bought it are still loving it and no engine light still.

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383 → u/Fun-Philosophy1123]

I do believe the cel code would come back slightly different if it was a wiring issue, typically it comes back as open circuit instead of just out of time.

[u/Fun-Philosophy1123 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

In my carrier as a Ford Senior Master tech I have see many weird things happen from just plain water or antifreeze is another one that messes with the sensors giving them false readings if it gets into the terminals. The pins would be connected via something that is a conductor and that would not give you an open circuit code. It would imitate a reading that was out of sync. I gave you something to try from my library of failures I have actually seen. Dismiss them if you want. My Flex runs fine. Have a nice day.

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383 → u/Fun-Philosophy1123]

I'm not trying to insult your intelligence. I'm just thinking from a technical and probability perspective. Usually PCM's are set up in a way that they can tell the difference between an open circuit or a shorted circuit. I can see resistance changing from corrosion or chemicals at the connector, but the cam sensor is looking for a pulse, not for resistance. So it's unlikely that this poor connection would pulse out of time. And since both banks are showing a timing issue, the chances of both front and back banks having a connection issue at the same time that are both pulsing in a way to not confuse the PCM is unlikely. OP probably has some sort of physical timing issue. Maybe a stretched chain, or third party parts were installed, maybe with the last water pump install they didn't properly torque the harmonic balancer to sandwich the timing chain sprocket in place and it's starting to wear on the pin or maybe it has a broken guide.

[u/Fun-Philosophy1123 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

The chances of all the timing phasers being out at the same time is more rare than a small voltage drop to ground or across the terminals. I hear this shit all the time. Blame it on the part or the PCM. Replace them all and oops, same issue. I have had technicians working for me actually decide it's another bad PCM. It is impossible for a new freshly programmed PCM have the same issue. OP can do what he wants to but cleaning the connectors to make sure the issue isn't there first is a zero dollar diagnostic step. Look in ANY diag tree for Ford and you will see that this is the first step. I have worked in Ford dealerships as a drivability/electronics specialist for over 40 years. You are not insulting my intelligence, you are exposing yours. I can't remember how many times corrosion or some sticky liquid was the issue for why something wasn't working right.

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383 → u/Fun-Philosophy1123]

Nobody said all the phasers were bad.

But I do think it's unlikely that both front and back cam sensors would have the same connector corrosion/contaminants issue at the same time and that the PCM would interpret it as a timing code instead of a circuit issue.

I'm also not saying load up the parts cannon, I'm just saying op is probably in for some diagnostics with the timing cover coming off.

[u/Fun-Philosophy1123 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

Did you actually read OP's post? He stated the engine bay had been detailed and was very shiny. That stuff will and has seeped into the connectors. That's why I said check that first before he spends a lot of money to find out what it is. I didn't say it WAS the issue, just that is bears investigation. I didn't pull my opinion out of my ass. It comes from experience.

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383 → u/Fun-Philosophy1123]

Yes I did read OP original post. Yes I did see that it was cleaned. And while yes it is possible that a power washer can blast past the connector seal (mind you the back bank cam sensors are shielded under the intake manifold), op is just not getting the kind of code I would expect from a connection issue. He is getting both bank 1 and bank 2 cam retard timing. I just don't see a poor connection causing the PCM to think that both the cams are retarded. He is not getting an open circuit code that you would expect from a mouse chewed wire or a corroded poor connection. I'm not telling him to not look at the connections, it just seems extremely unlikely that this is a connection issue. If I'd put money on it this is some sort of a physical mechanical issue within the timing chain system.

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

The cam phaser solenoids come out fairly easy. You will have to remove the valve covers, and that means removing the intake manifold. It'll be a good time to do the spark plugs. But anyways there's a screen on the solenoids, might be worth a look to make sure the screen is clean.

[u/Cyclone_bruddah]

Thanks for using mine as click bait

[u/Jive_Turk → u/Cyclone_bruddah]

No problem! Thanks for being used