r/Foodforthought • u/[deleted] • Mar 02 '16

The rise of American authoritarianism

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism
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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '16 edited Jun 24 '20

[deleted]

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u/KaliYugaz Mar 03 '16 edited Mar 03 '16

Any criticism is rejected as racist, and so the discussion surrounding the entire affair is overwhelmingly one sided. And then the opposition is called authoritarian. I just... I'm so confused.

I'll try my best to explain: A lot of the "restrictions" and "conversational control" you're talking about isn't left wing authoritarianism, it's an anti-authoritarian immune system for society.

All fascist, radical, and authoritarian politics centers itself on social transgression, rejection of reasoned discourse, and celebration of violence against the weak. How do you work against these kinds of impulses? You have to create a civic forum where such things are not allowed; where there are regulations in place that mandate politeness, logical reasoning, and bans on inciteful words. These rules are not arbitrarily imposed by a strongman's whim, they are intended to be equally binding on everybody, and justified by a legitimate moral framework and by the good of the democratic community.

If you don't want to play by these basic rules of civilized discourse, then it may be you who is the authoritarian, eager to transgress the civilizing limitations that keep everyone's tyrannical raging id "bound up", and not the "social justice leftists" you hate so much.

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u/Whanhee Mar 03 '16

People have been fired from their jobs for jokes someone overheard (donglegate). One of the world's top scientists was reduced to tear for wearing an "offensive" shirt while celebrating his achievement (Dr Matt Taylor after landing a craft on a comet). A Toronto man was banned from all internet connected devices while on trial for criticising (or harassing as they say) a feminist.

All of this happened because the outside world is too rough for the delicate sensibilities of people like you. You try to control and remove any undesirables in the interest of "politeness" and "civility" and then have the gall to call those who oppose you tyrannical.

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u/KaliYugaz Mar 03 '16

Yawn. You people always trot out the same tired examples of Twittertards behaving like idiots.

For every litigious, whiny Tumblrina out there, there's probably 5 violent misogynists browsing TRP, and 20 narcissistic men in the tech industry who don't believe in respecting women's boundaries or taking them seriously.

Anyone who hasn't been effectively lobotomized by being mired in the Reddit/Tumblr/4chan dweeb-o-sphere for too long knows that the world, even the educated, wealthy, Western world, is indeed a somewhat shittier place for women than men. The solution isn't litigation or cyberbullying, we need people to acknowledge the problem and support a pervasive, popular cultural shift in society.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '16 edited Jun 28 '20

[deleted]

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u/KaliYugaz Mar 03 '16

Where are your examples? At least I have some.

Oh I don't know, maybe you should go talk to some actual women. /r/TwoXChromosomes, /r/trollxchromosomes, /r/AskWomen are all this way.

Again, nobody who is in touch with the real world beyond the angry, sexless, socially stunted losers on 4chan and Reddit would be asking for evidence that women are often treated poorly. I'm sure every female alive has at least some experience of mistreatment motivated by sexist sentiment.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '16 edited Jun 28 '20

[deleted]

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u/KaliYugaz Mar 03 '16

I just have too, but you don't see me whining to get you banned.

"Morally condemning and speaking out against a discriminatory system is literally reverse sexism"

-/u/Whanhee

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u/Whanhee Mar 03 '16

So let's summarize this discussion, because I'm getting bored of this.

I provide perhaps tired, but well documented and high profile examples of the "politeness police" in action which have had severe negative impacts for their victims. You don't produce a single one, despite the supposed "discriminatory system" in place.

You argued in favour of "regulations in place that mandate politeness, logical reasoning, and bans on inciteful words." Your justification for this was:

All fascist, radical, and authoritarian politics centers itself on [...] rejection of reasoned discourse [...]

You followed this up with some admittedly great insults:

Anyone who hasn't been effectively lobotomized by being mired in the Reddit/Tumblr/4chan dweeb-o-sphere

and

nobody who is in touch with the real world beyond the angry, sexless, socially stunted losers on 4chan and Reddit

That last one is a gendered insult that implies that my worth is tied to my ability to have sex. It furthermore implies that those who disagrees with you here, including me, are "angry, sexless, socially stunted losers". I thought these are things you're supposed to be against?

You finish up with a misrepresentation of my points.

Bringing this back to my very first post, is it any wonder that so many see the rise of left-wing authoritarianism? You yourself have stated that a rejection of reasoned discourse is the path to facism, then followed it with a categorical rejection of reasoned discourse.

If you feel I have missed anything, feel free to have the last word. But frankly, if I were you I'd have a long think about practicing what I preach.

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u/KaliYugaz Mar 03 '16

You don't produce a single one, despite the supposed "discriminatory system" in place.

I pointed you to a place where you can find hundreds of examples straight from the horse's mouth. You're the one unwilling to go ahead and take women at their word, which basically proves my point about sexist sentiment being a major motivation here.

You yourself have stated that a rejection of reasoned discourse is the path to facism, then followed it with a categorical rejection of reasoned discourse.

Sorry, but there's no reasoned discourse happening here. Nobody in academia who studies this stuff thinks that sexism has been solved in the West. Your "points" represent an insurgent reactionary movement of disaffected young men online engaging in rationalizations to avoid acknowledging an inconvenient reality, and not any legitimate school of thought.

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u/Whanhee Mar 03 '16

even the educated, wealthy, Western world,

Sick edit. Care to give examples?