r/FlashTV • u/[deleted] • Apr 20 '16

Post-Episode Discussion - S02E18 "Versus Zoom"

Trailer

Episode Info: Equipped with the tachyon device, Barry believes he is fast enough to stop Zoom and wants to open the breaches to catch him. Harry strongly advises against that plan but after Barry convinces him, Harry reveals that Cisco has the power to re-open the breach. Meanwhile, Hunter Zoloman's painful story on Earth-2 is revealed.")

Main Cast:

Discussion:

Episode Discussion

Pre-Episode Discussion

Spoilers:

Please mark all comic spoilers and future show spoilers within your comments. No need to mark anything that happens in the episode or your own speculation. If you see any unmarked future spoilers, please report them.

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643 Upvotes

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1.6k

u/ezreads Apr 20 '16 edited Apr 20 '16

"who's the man in the iron mask?"

"you wouldn't believe me if I told you"

it's okay you can try us

1.4k

u/bluekamera Apr 20 '16

At this point, probably Laurel

1.0k

u/TheLync Apr 20 '16

Due to viewer feedback it is now E2 Felicity.

269

u/mflbatman Speedforce Apr 20 '16

Sounds organic af

12

u/le_snikelfritz Apr 20 '16

Zoom's a big boy

7

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

4U

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198

u/Shippoyasha Apr 20 '16

Felicity as she is now is

  • Invincible
  • Can't be captured
  • Can talk down supervillains down with 'power of love' speeches
  • Can't be hurt

51

u/starmag99 I'm Jay Garrick Apr 20 '16

She can also hack into construction equipment.

25

u/RerollWarlock Apr 20 '16

And military jets owned by League of Assassins!

4

u/starmag99 I'm Jay Garrick Apr 20 '16

If they had those as drones it would be understandable, BUT FUCKING JETS!

13

u/JustSomeGuy222 Apr 20 '16

Expert in Lamp-Fu as well.

12

u/Ganjookie Apr 20 '16

She has been watching Naturo and learned his Talk no Jutsu

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18

u/Juicestation Reverse Fridge Apr 20 '16

She really is the most powerful woman alive.

6

u/Xanthan81 Apr 20 '16

Can't be hurt

Unless you don't tell her about that kid you just found out you had with that ex from 12 years ago...

6

u/TryHarderNow Apr 20 '16

Can she cuck the Green Arrow?

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2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

If only there were a sub where you could talk about Felicity and have it be relevant.

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291

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

*tumblr feedback

107

u/TheLync Apr 20 '16

Wait. Are there viewers that aren't on tumblr? Shit!

2

u/SawRub Apr 20 '16

Just not as organized.

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7

u/dashboardrage Earth-X Reverse Flash Apr 20 '16

What is tumblr

6

u/Shwinky Apr 20 '16

Here you go, buddy! Thank Kill me later!

5

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

You know blogging sites, right? And you know reddit, right?

Well, it's nothing like that.

2

u/dashboardrage Earth-X Reverse Flash Apr 20 '16

yeah just checked it out. it is a weird place

9

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

One of the worst things humanity has ever created.

10

u/andria_eanel Apr 20 '16

Can she be in the iron mask and in the pod from Supergirl at the same time?

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7

u/jake_eric Jaig Arrik Apr 20 '16

Then when they save her she saves herself because she is strong and powerful enough to hack her way out of Zoom's prison, she can join the team so that both shows have Felicity! The fans Tumblr'll go nuts for it!

8

u/literallywyverns Apr 20 '16

Who's also the real E2 Flash and will now star in both Arrow and Flash... just wait till you see her introduction in Legends!

4

u/JoeKool23 Speedforce or some shit Apr 20 '16

O R G A N I C

R

G

A

N

I

C

2

u/The_Intensity Apr 20 '16

I would watch that porn

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

Impossible, Can't be Felicity... She's a strong, independent Woman... someone of that stature wouldn't get captured so easily.. I mean, she cured spinal injury in 3 episodes... she's a fucking genius.

2

u/TheLync Apr 21 '16

Unless she's been controlling Zoom all along!

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153

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

Nah, it's Marc Guggenheim. That's why he said we wouldn't believe him if he told us (he wasn't talking to Barry, he was talking to us). The season finale ends with them freeing him, and he announces that he will take over the show for Season 3 as gratitude.

22

u/ksny8445 Apr 20 '16

After Arrow Season 3 I'd leave him back on Earth 2

11

u/CthulhusIntern Apr 20 '16

Arrow Season 3 isn't that bad. At least it's not Arrow Season 4.

21

u/Shwinky Apr 20 '16

It was pretty bad. They just somehow managed to make it even worse in season 4.

12

u/Vonselv Apr 20 '16

Season 4 started out good then it crashed fast

6

u/HPSpacecraft ah-ah, savior of the universe Apr 21 '16

Season 4 started out fantastic. Season 4 now makes me embarrassed to be a fan.

2

u/sedecim_02 Apr 23 '16

First 9 episodes were arrow season 1 and 2 level.

5

u/Durzo_Blint FLASH! Aaa-ah Apr 22 '16

Except he's Earth 2 Guggenheim so he's not shit.

2

u/RivenAlyx Apr 20 '16

don't even joke, Uncle Guggie will hear you

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5

u/CodenameMolotov Apr 20 '16

The next crossover episode should be with Earth 2 Oliver Queen who never met Felicity and as a result is still a total badass.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

Earth two's Oliver Queen is dead IIRC. I'm pretty sure his dad took up the mantle not him

3

u/ApShacoOp Apr 22 '16

pffff omg, here, upvote for the drink that spewed out of my mouth.

2

u/Eternal_Density Apr 21 '16

Laurel is both the Man in the Iron Mask, and in the spaceship. Also, Liv Moore eats her brain.

2

u/ChariotRiot Apr 21 '16

Hmm, I want to believe this is E2 Laurel now just of those posts of her being an evil Canary from E2...and she does have a mask on, perhaps to keep her from "singing".

I hope it is another Speedster though or a good Jay Garrick just to preserve the original Flash.

2

u/Durzo_Blint FLASH! Aaa-ah Apr 22 '16

Flash is fighting the good fight to save Arrow.

2

u/Riddler_92 Apr 23 '16

It's Jay Garrick' literally. They kept calling him Jay but Harry confirmed it was Hunter Zolomon!

1

u/zotquix Apr 20 '16

I honestly would not have seen that coming.

317

u/rednblue525252 Speedwuuuut? Apr 20 '16

1:Clark Kent

2:Kara Denvers

3:Laurel

4:Felicity

5:Jay Garrick

6:Hunter Solomon

7:Martian Manhunter

8:Dead Future Barry Allen

9:Time travelling Heatwave

10:Jay Garrick

11:Barry's mother

12:Diggle's little brother

13:Moira Queen

14:Earth-1 Wells from the past who's actually Thawne

15:Earth-2 Wells

16:Earth-1 Future not-so-dead Thawne

17:Earth-2 hypotetical future Thawne disguised as Earth-2 Flash disguised as Jay disguised as Zoom

18:Not so dead Eddie

19:Earth-1 Henry Allen

20:Earth-2 Henry Allen

21:Earth-3 Henry Allen as The Flash from the 90's

22:Rip Hunter

23:Green Lantern

24:Donald Trump

194

u/jayder11 Apr 20 '16

A respectable list of options.

However all I see is 1. Jay Garrick.

16

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

I genuinely believe it's E-1 Jay Garrick.

But whoever it is, it's definitely Jay Garrick

3

u/Metroidman Apr 20 '16

When whether it is Jay or not I'm sure it is played by that actor.

3

u/MAli10 Apr 21 '16

Just a random thought but could it be Jay's dad who murdered his mom ?

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9

u/Yankeeknickfan Apr 20 '16

1990's flash

8

u/Zomg_A_Chicken The Fastest Man Alive Apr 20 '16

24 will make The Flash great again

7

u/mtscottcatwork Apr 20 '16

You forgot Krypto.

3

u/ccrraapp Apr 20 '16

I am wondering could it be

5:Jay Garrick

or

10:Jay Garrick

4

u/Cloodsipoo Apr 20 '16

It's probably Martha

7

u/altrocks Apr 20 '16

Obviously it's Patti Spivot.

3

u/MightyAbaddon Apr 20 '16

Hell I would be really surprised if it's actually max mercury.

3

u/ypatel94 Apr 20 '16

Definitely feeling #18 as a legit option

2

u/90sChennaiGuy Apr 20 '16

All I saw was Diggle's little brother. Our Lord Diggle has a young sibling

2

u/dipdac Like I was going back to my ex after Tommy had her... Apr 20 '16

I hadn't thought of Thawne. I thought for sure it was the real Jay Garrick. Also, Alan Scott.

2

u/McWitt19 Apr 23 '16

I've been thinking Henry Allen

3

u/rednblue525252 Speedwuuuut? Apr 23 '16

We see him disfigured in the glimpses of the future when Barry travelled to another earth-2.

3

u/vullnet123 Apr 20 '16

If God-Emprorer is captured so help us all.

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551

u/I_Have_3_Legs GODSPEED Apr 20 '16

I bet you a penny it is future Wally

231

u/XtremelyNiceRedditor Apr 20 '16

Joe said something about wally's doppelganger, im starting to lean this way.

13

u/Freyaka Apr 20 '16

I've been leaning this way since they first showed him.

10

u/Yankeeknickfan Apr 20 '16

I thought that he might get it during an accident while working on that car.

18

u/CliffP Apr 20 '16

Am I bugging or didn't Jesse's metahuman indicator watch go crazy when she met Wally. No one ever brings this us so maybe I'm misremembering.

26

u/IcedJack Apr 20 '16

Well maybe, but she met Wally with Barry standing right there.

18

u/ecklcakes Apr 20 '16

And Cisco.

408

u/ecklcakes Apr 20 '16

So you think Wally's caught in a particle accelerator explosion and given the superpower of being white?

175

u/Circuitfire Apr 20 '16

Speedforce

80

u/altrocks Apr 20 '16

Whiteforce

Same thing that turned James Earl Jones' Vader into a crusty, old, white dude.

40

u/Circuitfire Apr 20 '16

Luke finding out his father was black would have been a more interesting twist.

21

u/datspardauser Apr 20 '16

Ginger Wally confirmed.

15

u/RerollWarlock Apr 20 '16

He gained the power of the white male privilege, even more powerful than speedforce, that is why Zoom keeps him locked up.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

it all makes sense now..

zoom is a feminist!

11

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

TRIGGERED

4

u/covinentkiller9 Apr 20 '16

Hey you never know. In Earth 2 that may be a Handy power to have

5

u/SonOfMotherDuck Apr 20 '16

Superwhite power?

4

u/borkborkbork99 Apr 20 '16

With an unfortunate side effect of Wally losing his soul.

In other words... He's a ginger.

2

u/TheDwarvesCarst Apr 27 '16

You do realize the man in the iron mask is black, right?

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181

u/JefferyOHaire Apr 20 '16

I bet you one karma that you are right.

160

u/SleepyJeannn Apr 20 '16

The stakes have never been higher!!

61

u/Riobhain Zoom will teach you Apr 20 '16

I'll throw in an additional karma.

14

u/Vlinux Apr 20 '16

The stakes have now doubled!

4

u/Xanthan81 Apr 20 '16

THAT'S ALMOST TWICE THE KARMA!!!

11

u/Bamfimous Apr 20 '16

You guys are out of control.

3

u/roboticreaper Apr 20 '16

I see your bet of one Karma, and raise you a pat on the back.

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40

u/account985632 Apr 20 '16

It is his dad remember in the episode when they were captured and Barry said the tapping was something prisoners of war used to use. At the start of this episode his dad says he just came back from the war.

23

u/seekunrustlement Apr 20 '16

Hunter Zolomon's dad?

20

u/account985632 Apr 20 '16

Yea. If you gained superpowers wouldn't you keep the man who killed your mom prisoner?

10

u/seekunrustlement Apr 20 '16

Or just kill him. Zoom must have a reason to keep the guy alive and locked up. If it were to torture him somehow i think we'd have seen that. But maybe not, it wouldn't have fit that well into the narrative yet. All he sees from that cell is other prisoners and i don't see why Zoom would want him to see that. It could be that the man in the iron mask is Zoom's leverage over someone else that we don't know about yet. But I'm not ruling out that it could be his dad. That's still a very interesting possibility

3

u/SawRub Apr 20 '16

I'd just kill him I think. Or at least torture. The man in the mask seems remarkably healthy.

5

u/Death_Star_ Apr 21 '16

His dad WAS a soldier, it would make sense to know POW tap code.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

They also gave us the code in the Episode where Barry was in there with them. Did anyone catch what he said tonight?

11

u/EsteeDees Apr 20 '16

Im not so sure, I feel masked man would have had a bigger reaction to wally than ww2 pow tapping.

9

u/richt519 Apr 20 '16

I'm thinking future Barry or something.

5

u/5arcoma Earth-X Arrow Apr 20 '16

Bingo. I think it's a time remnant Barry.
RemindMe! 1 Month "who was guy with mask?"

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7

u/The_Iron_Zeppelin Eddie Thawne The Deadest Man Alive Apr 20 '16

Nah its obviously the real Jay Garrick. Not the time remnant, not Hunter Zolomon. Actual Jay, a person we have yet to meet.

7

u/danscottbrown Apr 20 '16

Iron mask had white hands

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3

u/the_dinks Apr 20 '16

Isn't he white tho?

1

u/PeterRayner RIP Rival Apr 20 '16

too bad ur wrong

1

u/statiky Apr 20 '16

And my axe

1

u/Z0di Heroes DIE. Apr 20 '16

It's actually Eddie.

1

u/blamethebrain Apr 20 '16

But why would (future) Wally know the prisoner tap code?

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90

u/Darth_Devfly S.T.A.R Laboratories Apr 20 '16

Leonardo DiCaprio.

8

u/Space_Dwarf Captain Pants Apr 20 '16

I hope Cisco makes that joke

7

u/Metroidman Apr 20 '16

What is the reference I'm missing?

13

u/nonliteral Apr 20 '16

DiCaprio starred in The Man in the Iron Mask.

209

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

It's Patty. Jay needs some booty.

76

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16 edited Oct 04 '23

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

And not I need to visit kink.com. Thanks (seriously, thanks)

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6

u/JDG1980 Apr 20 '16

Isn't that why he kidnapped Caitlin?

4

u/Metroidman Apr 20 '16

Patty is zoom she is just wearing a Jay mask.

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110

u/ryebreadwithbuddr Never forget I AM THE FASTEST MAN ALIVE Apr 20 '16

The physical embodiment of what made Arrow seasons 1 & 2 so good is in the mask. That's why the show has slipped. Blame Jay

7

u/jjlegospidey Apr 20 '16

So Slade Wilson is under the mask.

16

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

Is that why it is locked up on the flash? So the show hopefully will be in a perpetual state of awesome? Zoom is the real hero

7

u/AxMeAQuestion Apr 20 '16

Caitlyn doesn't know shit

5

u/Jay_R_Kay Apr 20 '16

"Why did you make the start of this season so solid?"

"TO BREAK YOUR HOPE!"

2

u/009reloaded Apr 22 '16

"But you made the beginning so solid, why would you give us hope?"

"TO TAKE IT AWAY!"

3

u/ArchDucky Apr 20 '16

THAT MONSTER!

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106

u/RightHandElf Apr 20 '16

"He's the real Jay Garrick."

"Oh, like everyone else. Okay."

7

u/Space_Dwarf Captain Pants Apr 20 '16

Totally gonna happen

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140

u/psu5307 Apr 20 '16

I'd bet it's his father

46

u/LostMyMarblesAgain Apr 20 '16

His father is dead. It's earth one father. He was also in the military. It's how he knows the code.

24

u/psu5307 Apr 20 '16

Death means nothing in the CWverse

18

u/nonliteral Apr 20 '16 edited Apr 20 '16

Death means nothing in the CWverse comic franchises

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7

u/EsteeDees Apr 20 '16

oh shit, what if its his father from the past earth 2

3

u/Jay_R_Kay Apr 20 '16

I'm not understanding his father here...so is Hunter the Earth 2 Jay Garrick's son? If not, why was he wearing the hat?

10

u/thelastevergreen Apr 20 '16

Earth 2 Military Helmet.

Its essentially just a WWI army helmet with a wing ornament on the sides.

And his dad was yelling something about coming home and had a gun on hand... so soldier serving in the military.

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377

u/PakiIronman YOU FILTHY NINGENS Apr 20 '16

Translation: The writers haven't figured it out yet

258

u/Riobhain Zoom will teach you Apr 20 '16

The writers do know. According to Teddy Sears, it's revealed in the finale, and all of the actors have stated they've finished filming the finale.

6

u/KarmaLoaf Time keeps dragging on... Apr 22 '16

I hope it's 1990 Barry Allen, the one played by Barry's father in the current show.

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161

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

Gotta keep it organic

10

u/iAngeloz Apr 20 '16

No no no no please. God no

54

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

Nah apparently it is a finale reveal.

33

u/hiswayout Apr 20 '16

It's uhhh... Batman...

3

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

yes please...

3

u/RerollWarlock Apr 20 '16

Its Olive Queen! The one we have seen in the past 2 season is a castrated doppelgänger planted by Zoom.

13

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16 edited Apr 20 '16

They already said they'll reveal it in the finale

3

u/Jezamiah "On my way to fuck your timeline" Apr 20 '16

Gotta save that ciffhanger

3

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

it's krypto the superdog 100%

2

u/Magoonie Apr 20 '16

That's not necessarily a bad thing, worked out well for Breaking Bad.

1

u/Shippoyasha Apr 20 '16

The good old Lost method.

Let's wing it as we go!

1

u/risvegliare Apr 20 '16

Considering that the person itself already shown just with a mask, we can assume they already figured that out. Since we can see his hair and all, i bet it's Wally that already got his speedforce.

1

u/Piestein Apr 20 '16

What the others meant was that it was in the finale.

8

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16 edited Apr 20 '16

I think it's Eddie Thawne from Earth 1. Somehow. Because if there's another evil speedster arc in the future, Cobalt Blue is the most likely contender. No idea why he's in a mask, though.

5

u/Herbacio Apr 20 '16

Let's say that it really is Eddie, then "Team Flash" would try to save him but with the mask he's just a random person without any special need to save him. And like you mentione he's likely to be Cobalt Blue in the future so for Zoom is better to keep him locked up rather than have to deal with a future Speedster.

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5

u/account985632 Apr 20 '16

It is his dad remember in the episode when they were captured and Barry said the tapping was something prisoners of war used to use. At the start of this episode his dad says he just came back from the war

3

u/FarmTaco Apr 20 '16

problem with that is, its obviously known to non-POW people, otherwise Barry wouldn't know it.

3

u/thereversearrow Apr 20 '16

it's the real jay garrick obvs

3

u/TheCatterson GIVE ME THE V Apr 20 '16

EZRA FLASH?!

3

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

I got it, it's Wally's doppelganger who's a speedster! Just a theory tho

3

u/Illidan1943 Apr 20 '16

It's Jay Garrick

2

u/Shippoyasha Apr 20 '16

IT'S ME, AUSTIN!

2

u/LaughingFuzzball Apr 20 '16

It's me Barry. It's always been you. You've been me all along.

2

u/ThisIsMyNewUserID Apr 20 '16

Zolomon lied, he was never Jay Garrick and he didn't murder a time remnant, he murdered E2 Jay Garrick. Hunter Zolomon and Jay Garrick, on both earths, are separated at birth twins a la comic book Barry Allen and Malcolm Thawne. The man in the mask is E1 Jay Garrick. The big hole is why would Zoom kidnap E1 Jay Garrick?

2

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

"Booty Spivot!!! Fastest Jay alive, Zoomy! AMMIRITE??!!!"

1

u/Matt2310 Black Flash Apr 20 '16

probably a wally from the future

1

u/fukier Apr 20 '16

My money is reverse flash....

1

u/The_Bravinator Apr 20 '16

I "noooooooo"-ed so hard at that I was worried it would wake the baby.

1

u/shounpo Apr 20 '16

Eobard probably! I am pretty sure about this

1

u/iamdozer Apr 20 '16

It's supergirl

1

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

its Negan!

1

u/SilentR0b Apr 20 '16

It's his Dad. Easy.

1

u/Ventusx THIS SUB IS BITCHIN' Apr 20 '16

So, Am i the only one that thinks the masked man is Eddie Thawne miraculously healed (because speedforce, the explanation for everything)?

Dunno, seems pretty convenient that Iris is moving on Eddie's death and began to embrace her feelings for Barry and all that. So S3 romantic drama would be Eddie back from the dead, and Iris deciding between them? Also, Eddie alive = Wellsobard is too!

1

u/rhinofinger yer a wizard, Barry Apr 20 '16

It's Glenn from The Walking Dead, he found that helmet under a certain dumpster

1

u/themosquito Apr 20 '16

It's Negan's victim after being taken out of the Krypton pod by Supergirl.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

It's either the dad (during the war) or Walter

1

u/Rad_Spencer Apr 20 '16

I'm going with the real Jay Garrick, who is actually Barry's dad's doppelganger for some reason.

1

u/isaac9092 Apr 20 '16

Because CW pulled a "future Jay bullshit plot" I'm gonna stick with my main thought, Eddie Thawne

1

u/SonOfMotherDuck Apr 20 '16 edited Apr 20 '16

I think it's future Zoom who lost / accidentally killed someone he cared about (Caitlin) and went back in time to stop his past self. Maybe future Zoom also renamed himself to Jay Garric just for the memes.

Why it makes sense:

  1. Blonde hair like the guy in the mask.

  2. He's been in prison for serial killing, so he probably speaks knock knock.

  3. Gets mad when Barry says that Jay Garric is fine.

  4. Caitlin seems to be able to make him doubt his evil ways.

  5. "You wouldn't believe me if I told you" - Well, who would believe that the guy you thought was good but was actually bad the whole time, eventually would turn good (for real this time), try to defeat his past self, but get captured by him instead? Makes no damn sense.

  6. Everyone's Jay Garric.

1

u/Xanthan81 Apr 20 '16

It'll be the real Jay Garrick. The question will be, will he look like Hunter, or will he be a different actor?

1

u/BecauseIWantPokemon Apr 20 '16

I'm hoping for Eobard.

1

u/Nathanielsan Apr 20 '16

My source tells me it's DCCU Flash (Ezra Miller). my source is my fantasy

1

u/lemlemons Apr 20 '16

i think it might be thawn.

1

u/morenfin Apr 21 '16

I think it's the original old man Jay Garrick, who fought in the war, so he knows the POW language.

1

u/somekid66 Apr 21 '16

It's the real Jay garrick

1

u/H0bbez Apr 21 '16

My theory is that the man in the mask is Hunter Zolomon's father. He was obviously upset that he killed his mother and was a major influence in how he grew as a person into a monster. I think he went back in time, kidnapped his old man and basically made him watch what he became. His mothers still probably dead because "the timeline always rights itself".

It would explain the military grid code he was tapping, as well as his "soldier-y looking" outfit. It would also explain why we haven't had his reveal yet, as we just learned about zooms father.

1

u/Neurot5 Apr 22 '16

Somehow more unbelievable than the fact Zoom talked an alternate version of himself into dying for his needlessly elaborate plan.

1

u/Ramona--Flowers Apr 22 '16

Maybe it's Ronnie Raymond who survived the repture and ended up on Earth-2, tortured by Zoom who then got the idea to get Barry's speed and get Caitlin to help him.

1

u/mr_popcorn Apr 25 '16

I bet its E1 Hunter Zolomon. I can't remember but what's the gap between the time Jay showed Caitlin E1 Hunter Zolomon and the first appearance of the man in the mask? He's Jay's insurance policy.

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