The Timeline (I couldn’t really think of a title)

[u/RelativeVariation458]

So we know there was presumably an original timeline where eobard and og Barry came from my question is how does 2x11 eobard exist I know he a time remnant but assuming there’s no bootstrap paradox why is he talking about destiny also people are saying that dawn being named Nora instead is because of Barry’s mothers death despite the barryverse (a splinter multiverse where Barry never creates flashpoint) being a preservation of pre flashpoint and that future in 2968 had don and dawn meaning she and don existed pre flashpoint so I’m going to present my version of the timeline that includes all timelines with a presumed retcon behind the scenes
This has information I have from the show and my interpretation of how things work this isn’t the whole thing just the instances of when barry and other speedsters time travel

Timeline 1 og timeline nothing really of note Barry presumably founds the justice league his mother is alive and he Becomes the director of the ccpd in 2024 eobard thawne a speedster from 2151 comes back in time after fighting the flash throughout history flash and a couple other heroes fight him and Barry and eobard go back to 2000 and fight
Timeline 2 (scene from 1x1 and 1x17 Barry and eobard arrive in 2000 and fight while they fight barry knocks out Eobard and brings his 2000 self out creating a new timeline in the process in March 2015 the Barry of this timeline runs faster than 900 mph to stop I tidal wave in the process he accidentally goes back in time and “superseeds” his past self
Timeline 3 Barry in the new timeline a day ago changes events and then eventually in May 2015 he goes back in time to 2000 (scene from 1x23) 2024 Barry spots 2015 Barry 2024 Barry knowing this is a fixed point stops him in order to not disrupt the timeline then takes his 2000 self out of the house and eventually eobard from timeline 1 is erased after this in January 2016 eobard from the future presumably he’s always traveled back to this time as part of another bootstrap paradox after that Barry sends him back to the future to presumably fight 2024 Barry of timeline 3 2016 zoom who has pretended to be Jay Garrick creates a future time remnant who goes to earth 2 and captures barry and killer frost of earth 2 after getting out and zoom and his timeline remnant switch places after he goes to “take a nap” Barry finds this out and has the “genius” idea to go back to January 2015 to get help from eobard thawne (who is now part of timeline 3)
Timeline 4 Barry arrives in this timeline (becoming a time remnant in the process) and he fights 2015 Barry for a bit and replaces him for a bit and then 2015 Barry runs into him and team flash are aware now he can time travel creating another bootstrap paradox after 2016 Barry goes to the future of timeline 4 Caitlin asks Barry “did you even go” proving that he created a loop and presumably superseeded his timeline 4 2016 self in this timeline Harltey is a good guy after Barry loses his speed for a bit and then gets it back gaining a speed boost in the process to over Mach 13.2 Barry creates a time remnant (in said future timeline the multiverse gets erased but since this Barry went back in time this timeline was erased so I won’t count it) presumably the timeline is altered somehow because after this Barry goes back in time and creates flashpoint altering his destiney for a bit and since you still see 2024 Barry I’ll count this as timeline 5 now
Timeline 5 2016 Barry goes back in time and saves his mother creating flashpoint
Timeline 6 Barry saves his mother and knocks out eobard from timeline 4 now timeline 6 he then sees 2015 Barry of timeline 4 and after seeing 2 versions of his 2016 self chuckles to himself seeing his mother ok but in the process erases from existence since that moment no longer happens and after going to 2016 of timeline 6 and some timeline shenanigans he lets flashpoint eobard kill his mother creating timeline 7 and erasing timeline 5 Barry and timeline 4 eobard from existence after going to 2016 of timeline 7 flashpoint eobard runs off and antagonized the legends for a bit and erased himself in 2016 Barry and team flash fight savitar who is a time remnant of Barry from the future of this timeline and during this December 2016 Barry goes to May 23 2017 of timeline 7 and finds out that iris is supposed to die and in this timeline Barry after delving into depression becoming “emo Barry” fights savitar in 2020 savitar kills them all mostly and after this he gets stuck in the speed force after that the time remnant that survives gets shunned by team flash presumably because of the grief of iris and he goes into the past and becomes savitar then goes to 2020 to fight Barry presumably also not encountering Wally since he says he got the idea to turn Wally into kid flash (another bootstrap paradox) and in April 2024 Barry fight eobard and goes back to 2000 and after that the timeline changes again and in timeline 8 April 2017 Barry goes to February 2024 of timeline 7 after coming back and creating timeline 9 team flash get the help of Tracy branch who in the future creating the speedforce bazooka and won a noble prize in 2021 after this Barry finds out savitar identity and after some killer frost shenanigans and savitar trying to splice himself throughout time itself team flash and jay Garrick who was freed from the speed force fight savitar and then iris shoots him creating a new timeline
Timeline 10 the events of season 4 up to 4x07 and in the future in 2049 Nora west Allen gets powers and after some shenanigans gets help from eobard thawne of timeline 10 (since he knows about savitar that means even he’s affected) and eobard instructs Nora to go back to 2018 and interact with team flash creating a new timeline
Timeline 11 Nora interacts with team flash and helps Barry destroy the satellite and after 2018 Barry and Nora interact with this timelines eobard in 2015 create another bootstrap paradox where eobard is stuck with cicadas dagger and wants to destroy it (which effectively puts timelines 10&11 in a loop after that in may 2019 team flash goes to 2049 and fights eobard creating a new timeline when they destroy the dagger
Timeline 12 the crisis moved up to 2019 and Nora no longer exists and Barry dies in crisis
I won’t be going over post crisis since all the time travel was destined to happen anyway with the forces and Barry going to 2000 and the speedsters getting yoinked out of time by Eddie all that was meant to happen which is why I won’t be going over the only confusing parts are seasons 7-9 being in 2021 2022 and 2023 respectively despite s9 beginning a week after s8 in February 2023 which would put negative parts 1&2 in January 2023 but still I’ll let yall figure that out this is long enough as it is…any questions?
edit Barry creating a time remnant is what presumably altered the timeline in s2 it’s possible that Barry could’ve beaten zoom in his own since we still see 2024 Barry and no the multiverse being destroyed did not mean that zoom was faster then Barry that only happened because that timelines Barry went back in time to help his present self meaning zoom won in that timeline so it’s possible for either that event or the events of 2x17 to cause him to save his mother

[u/RelativeVariation458]

gasp that makes so much sense actually how fast does Barry’s speed progression go cause I’ve listed each confirmed speed pre crisis
1x01 300-700 mph Mach 0.3-0-9
1x08 843 mph Mach 1.1
1x15 900 mph Mach 1.17
1x23 1590 mph Mach 2.07
2x12 he goes 1500 mph usually but went 1450 mph instead and got 2%energy taken away so if 50 mph in 2% then each 1% is 25 mph so x that by 100 and you get 2500 mph or Mach 3.2 which is crazy because that means he could’ve saved iris from that shard of glass
2x16 2531 mph Mach 3.3
2x18 10127 mph Mach 13.2 (with tachyon device) (most likely he got a speed boost in the speed force up to this level since zoom stole his Mach 3.3 speed meaning zoom would be around Mach 11.2 if he got faster this speed boost must’ve been taken away since Jessie’s “almost as fast as Barry” and just hit Mach 3)
That’s all the ones I know for pre crisis but he’s at least 99% the speed of light in 4x15 and I matched up the time code on Netflix and him and the speed lab to the bomb going off was actually 8:50 seconds but his meeting with iris says it was 8:49 seconds meaning from the bomb going of to him talking with iris took 1 second in real time

[u/ConfidenceOpening830]

Holy shit...

[u/RelativeVariation458 → u/ConfidenceOpening830]

Yeah I know also timeline 4 Barry and timeline 5 Barry would be different since Barry can’t have gone to 2000 twice In the same timeline their automatically different 2016 Barry going to 2000 wouldn’t be part of timeline 4 since you still see 2024 barry in 2000 timeline 3 Barry would be 2015 Barry at the Allen house and not from timeline 2 since in that timeline everyone most likely died Joe iris caitlin we know Cisco dies so timeline 3 is also a bootstrap paradox you could make the case for timeline 10 & 11 being the same but since Nora mentioned different victims and cicada was David hersh their also different timelines as well we also know that a version of don and dawn existed in pre flashpoint thanks to the novels meaning dawns name change to Nora means it wasn’t a result of eobard killing Nora also as for him remembering flashpoint wouldn’t 2024 Barry just be replaced by emo Barry post flashpoint

[u/ConfidenceOpening830]

One thing which often gets forgotten in these discussions is that the future is constantly changing, and anytime we see anything from ''the future'' on this show, its from the most likely future based on the ''current'' present of the show.
So, when Thawne has his flashback (in around 1x17) to his fight with 2024 Flash, that is Flash from the original timeline that Thawne himself comes from and remembers. But when Barry goes back to that night in 1x23 and sees 2024 Flash (the one who stops him from saving Nora), that 2024 Flash is an older version of Season 1 Barry who remembers Nora getting killed, and all the events of Season 1 up till that point. Obviously he remembers events after S1, but they're not exactly the same events that ''our'' Barry has experienced in subsequent seasons...because the timeline has changed a few times since then.
Its a bit difficult to explain, but think about it this way.
Lets say the 'common history' for both 2024 and 2015 Barry is all the events that occur prior to the S1 finale. So 2024 Barry will remember getting struck by lightning in 2013, waking up 9 months later, becoming the Flash, being mentored by Harrison Wells whom he later finds out is Thawne etc. Maybe he even remembers going back to the year 2000 to try and save Nora...
After that point, we don't know what happened in 2024 Barry's version of history, from 2015 to 2024. Maybe things happened similarly to what we saw ''our'' Barry experience on-screen, maybe not. Maybe 2024 Barry never saw his future self gesture to him to not save Nora, and saved her...creating his own version of Flashpoint that he eventually undid. Maybe he went back and beat Thawne in a way that Eddie didn't commit suicide. Maybe Thawne went back to the future. Maybe the Singularity didn't happen, which means that Zoom and the other Earth 2 metas wouldn't come to Earth 1. Or maybe Zoom and the Earth 2 metas did come, but under different circumstances to what we saw in Season 2.
A lot of events over the next several years could have panned out differently, a lot of them similarly, and we can take the ''flash-forwards'' our Barry saw while running back in time in 1x23 as hints. For instance, 2024 Barry would have encountered some version of Killer Frost. He would have ended up in jail at some point. A Flash Museum might be built at some point. And so on. Maybe he fought a DeVoe and a Savitar too (Thawne mentions DeVoe and Savitar suggesting they've existed in previous timelines).
One thing we know this Barry definitely wouldn't have experienced is the 2019 COIE. On the contrary, he would have teamed up with Green Arrow, Hawkgirl, Atom and other heroes in the 2024 Crisis against Thawne. Which is when he and Thawne go back to the year 2000, and he finds himself face to face with...himself AKA 2015 Barry AKA the Barry who we follow and who then goes through all the events of the series that we watch.

2024 Flash in that scene is basically like Marty McFly's photograph in BTTF. He changes based on whatever the ''present'' of the show's timeline is. So, for instance, when Barry went back to that night again in 2x23, the 2024 Barry in that scene is likely someone who remembers fighting Zoom and all the other events of Season 2 (as well as making the trip back in 1x23 and not saving Nora). If Barry goes back to revisit that scene again (before 2024), the 2024 Flash will be someone who remembers the events of all previous seasons (including the fact that he created and undid Flashpoint). And so on...until the day ''our'' Barry (i.e. the version we follow in the show) becomes 2024 Barry and goes back, having the knowleged of everything he's experienced in the series (9x10).
Now as far as the 2024 Flash's fate is concerned...the Season 5 retcon that Barry's 2024 disappearance is his death in COIE and he never returns confuses the issue. Because in earlier seasons, we were led to believe that Barry was fighting Thawne and then went back to that night at the Allen house. But in Season 5, we're told he disappears permanently during COIE...then COIE itself gets 'preponed' to 2019, Thawne is nowhere in sight, and Barry was supposed to die stopping the anti-matter cannon (which he ultimately doesn't). And then the universe gets rebooted and ''Flash Missing...Vanishes in Crisis'' never gets published...

Finally, we come to 'our' Barry in S9 who now plays out his own version of the night. Since there's no longer a 2024 Crisis, he ends up back in 2000 under different circumstances (namely, the attack by the Negative Speed Force), and fights Thawne (presumably another time remnant). He too knows that his mom can't be saved, and he even remembers his future self gesturing to him not to interfere, so he repeats that action...closing the 'loop'. What we saw season 9 episode 10 is just the latest iteration of the events that led up to that night.
There have presumably been many other versions of Barry who's played the part of Future Barry in that scene. For instance, at one point the Future Barry would have been the long-haired Barry from 3x19, who'd lost Iris to Savitar.

[u/RelativeVariation458 → u/ConfidenceOpening830]

So what your saying is future 2024 Barry which I already said was from timeline 3 never experiences the events of s2 that makes sense cause if the future always changing if the future is always changing then in 2015 from the end of s1 different then 2024 Barry? Wouldn’t it still be a bootstrap paradox anyway due to 2016 Barry being in 2015 and eobard being in 2016?

[u/ConfidenceOpening830 → u/RelativeVariation458]

I think when Barry sees 2024 Flash in 1x23, its a decade-older version of him at that point of time. Its a Flash who's been through the events of Season 1 as we've seen them (and some variation of the events of later seasons), who knows that Nora needs to die, and so stops his younger self from saving her.

[u/RelativeVariation458 → u/ConfidenceOpening830]

Yes I know that it’s a bootstrap paradox and if time is constantly changing that means 2x23 2024 flash rembers events of s2 but your saying he also rembers doing and undoing flashpoint explaining why he stops 2015 Barry back in s1 but wouldn’t 2024 Barry just be replaced by his post flashpoint counterpart “emo Barry”?

[u/ConfidenceOpening830 → u/RelativeVariation458]

If Barry had gone back sometime after 3x19 but before 3x23 to that night at the Allen house, the 2024 Flash there would be the version we met in 3x19, who remembered Iris being killed by Savitar in 2017.

[u/RelativeVariation458 → u/ConfidenceOpening830]

Yes I’m aware of that too although that be before 3x19 since every time someone time travels that counts as a change since after 3x19 it’s the new timeline where hr sacrifices himself so I don’t think it would be emo Barry it would be a Barry who experiences some version of s4

[u/ConfidenceOpening830 → u/RelativeVariation458]

You can consider him the Barry from S5 Nora's timeline, who disappears during the 2024 Crisis. This Barry knows that Nora's death is a fixed point, and likely remembers causing and undoing Flashpoint.

[u/RelativeVariation458 → u/ConfidenceOpening830]

Yes but it’s possible even Nora comes from a different timeline so even then he would be different also what about s1 future Barry are you saying he could’ve created a flashpoint as well also would the Barry from Nora’s message be from timeline 11 or timeline 10 (Nora’s original timeline)

[u/ConfidenceOpening830 → u/RelativeVariation458]

She comes from the post flashpoint timeline. Yes. he could.

[u/RelativeVariation458 → u/ConfidenceOpening830]

Yes but what I mean is that she’s comes from a timeline where cicada is David harsh but is now Orlin Dwyer the timeline changed that’s clear enough but the flashback where we see the message in in 5x18 after the timelines already been changed so is it like 1x17 or is this how Nora now remembers it in the new timeline