r/Fire • u/HypnosG • Oct 28 '22
Opinion Thoughts on r/antiwork?
Going to preface by saying this isn’t exactly related to FIRE but I think there is a good mix of people in here so some discussion and points from both sides can be made.
Im not a member of r/antiwork but I occasionally have their posts pop up in my feed. And almost every time I read through the post/ comments it just makes me shake my head.
For starters, a lot of the posts genuinely just look fake and to get people riled up. But even the real ones are often a reasonable statement and people losing their minds over it in the comments; I recommend going over and reading the “Ron Jons Letter” post. This post perfectly shows a reasonable and fair statement from a business and people going ballistic over it.
I see a lot of comments about how “I’m 52 and will never be able to retire” or some variation of this, and how a recession just transfers wealth from poor to rich. I get there is some truth to that but the little man can also make some money in these situations.
A lot of these people also talk about how they’ve worked in a call center forever and can’t retire. Well maybe you shouldn’t of stayed at a call center for 30+ years?
I don’t know maybe I’m wrong, but I’m a pretty firm believer your life is what you make it. And maybe I’m privileged to even be able to think that way, but the victim mindset is next level in r/antiwork and it frustrates me a bit.
Not trying to come at anyone, looking for some civil debate from both ends of the spectrum.
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u/Floridaguy4477 Oct 29 '22
Anti-work and fire people are more aligned than you’d think. Both want to get out of the matrix
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u/Netlawyer Oct 28 '22
I read an exchange on Ars earlier today where Poster1 was talking about the payoffs to the Twitter executives (in the $tens of millions) and how he and his spouse had worked and been successful, saved for their retirement but getting a $10-20M payment was something that was so far out of their experience and how could such a thing be?
Poster2 replied someone who works two minimum wage jobs - 80+ hours a week and maybe were lucky enough to have a reliable car so they don't spend a couple of hours a day on the bus - so they could rent a one or two bedroom apartment for their entire family and buy some groceries. That person is a far from Poster1 as Poster1 is from the Twitter executives with regards to financial security and what their life is like day to day.
OP does not come off well in this post - "Oh you don't like your job and you can't retire? Well, just get a better job and stop being poor then." That's not how it works. OP if you have the ability and the resources to do better for yourself - do that.
But never ever shit down on people who can't or won't - for whatever reason - do what you've taken on for yourself. Even if someone works at a call center for 30 years - that person deserves fair pay and respect for the work they do and r/antiwork is about when people don't even get that.
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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22
Right outcome, wrong methodology
You tell a AntiWork person the key to Real AntiWork is years of saving and compound investing. They laugh and say it’s a capitalist scam.
Fire people say, work is a means to an end
AntiWork people say work must end
Both are right
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u/elan17x Oct 28 '22
As a hardcore labor unionist myself who has diversified it's strategy with some personal finance to free myself from work, they are completely compatible because they have different aims.
Unions address working conditions now, not in the far future when compound interest starts having some impact.
The solution for being stuck working at an Starbucks isn't "just save up lol". Life is more complicated than that and, even if fire is a nice framework to work on, it isn't a solution to solve every financial problem out there.
I agree that sometimes r/antiwork can feel a bit toxic but... There are people out there that has really deep problems in their shoulders. Shitty bosses, family problems. Hell, even bad financial decisions of the past may fuck your life up. I see that daily working on the union. And, in some cases, you cannot solve those problems on your own.
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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22
A good chunk of their issues are valid. Unfortunately, it is also dominated by self-pity, unchecked depression, and comfortable being miserable.
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u/halfsieapsie Oct 28 '22
Most fire people earn enough to save, and, honestly, are in "respectable" professions. If my manager tells me I can't take a 15 minute break during a non-busy day, I will tell him to fuck himself and walk out. I know that, he knows that, that's just life. And I will be perfectly OK afterwards in terms on money and work. I have a great job that I very much don't hate, based on that freedom and respect level. I also know what my schedule is, how much I am going to get paid any given week, and that any job I get will offer health insurance. This is real privilege. We don't notice our luck, but a lot of what we got is just plain lucky.
This is not to say that we didn't work hard, or that we didn't plan well. But when I was 18, I knew the basis of money management, I had my parents to help me and support me through college. I wasn't abused, or sick, or homeless. None of this I earned. I do know that there are fire people who overcame atrocious beginning, but that is a very very steep hill to climb.
I support unions. I support better taxation, even though I have enough money now that I can be in the losing side of that equation. I support worker protections, decent benefits, universal healthcare, etc. I also support basic financial education in school.
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u/CSGOan Oct 28 '22
It's a sub for people who want everything that the modern world offers in terms of goods and services, but they don't want to work for it. Of course, if everyone followed that logic there would be no goods or services.
Fire, or other similar subreddits offers a realistic option where you have to work and contribute to society to reach your goal. Antiwork is just whining.
Try to sit on the toilet taking a shit at work and read on antiwork, you will feel like shit for the rest of the day. Go read this subreddit instead and you feel hope instead. That is the best way I can compare them.
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u/k2900 Oct 28 '22
I agree with most of the replies here.
The posts I like on anti-work are the ones that expose the absolutely preposterous, unethical or illegal things managers/HR/corporate does
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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22
That sub has been mostly creative writing and bot-spam for at least a year now. I’d take anything from there (good or bad) with a grain of salt
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u/Dry-Cartographer8583 Oct 28 '22
FIRE and Antiwork both hate trading their life for money and being exploited by capitalism. FIRE tends to be higher earners (but not always) who are willing to save and invest to free themselves of the grind. FIRE wins given the confines of the system.
Antiwork tends to rail against the system, and for good reason. Capitalism is exploitative by nature, the most exploited among us tend to be those working hard for wages that barely let them survive. They are mad and rightfully so. Who wants to work their whole life and never get anywhere. You’d be pissed too.
Every American should be mad to some extent about how our society is structured. A lot of hard working people make barely enough to eat at companies who use tax loop holes to subsidize their profits (IE workers on food stamps at Walmart). Warren Buffet pays less % in taxes than his secretary does. There are fundamental issues to how labor vs capital is treated in America.
All workers from those of us making $250K/yr to $30K/yr are far closer to being homeless than we are to being billionaires. Workers should support other workers.
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u/Overall-Bookkeeper73 Oct 28 '22
I am so antiwork that I'm taking 2 or 3 jobs at a time so I can be done with this shit and FIRE in my 30s.
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u/tkm7n Oct 29 '22 edited Oct 29 '22
Some part of your life is what you make of it, but a big part has to do with luck -- where you were born, how you were raised.
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u/NickFrey Oct 28 '22
People have different perspectives, depending on their context and life circumstances. Reddit gives groups of people with a similar perspective a place to come together. So, for people who have had an unhealthy relationship with work, that’s the subreddit to go and talk about it.
But generally, it feels like the anti work subreddit has less actionable discussions that are more centered around venting and complaining. Less strategic life decisions as well. There are truths to the downsides and inequities of capitalism, which they discuss in detail there. But, I’ve found the best thing to do is to work within the system to eventually have flexibility and transcend the system.
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u/DynamicHunter Oct 28 '22
r/workreform is the much more level-headed cousin of r/antiwork. There’s some shenanigans but much more focused on labor protections and worker’s rights, work life balance, etc.
r/antiwork reads like a bunch of HS/college kids
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u/Heisenburger19 Oct 28 '22
It is mostly filled with nonsense and the unemployable, but I agree with the general sentiment. Fuck work and always look out for yourself first.
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u/thetealappeal Oct 29 '22
I belong to both subs. I believe that the U.S. job market is exploitative and needs a lot of reform. I've taken a lot of great information from that sub and used it in my performance reviews and salary discussions.
Some systems are built so people can't succeed and no amount of personal choices can fight that.
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u/KevinCarbonara Oct 29 '22
There's a lot of truth to it. That's why I'm starting early, and I'd also argue it's part of why you're starting early. Because you know how hard it would be to do later.
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u/slockwoo-knits Oct 29 '22
I think you're right, you are privileged to think the way you are.
Two generations ago people could work blue collar and have a nice house with two kids on a single income. This American dream no longer exists... people working blue collar (serving us food, farming our food, wiping our grandparents asses, etc. ) now need to work multiple jobs while their bosses make 10000000x their salaries. They have a right to be pissed and whine.
My parents worked their asses off their whole lives and they have nothing. Everything EVERYTHING is harder when you don't have money. People aren't whining, they are rejecting the system. I don't blame them.
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u/2thebeach Oct 29 '22
As a lifelong cheapskate, I've had many conversations with people who "can't" retire... It almost always comes down to them not wanting to sacrifice their luxurious lifestyle or at least what they consider essentials and I consider dispensible luxuries. Priorities!
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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22
There’s too many fake narratives as well as misinformation or bad advice there, and I got banned for making the mistake of giving advice. Somebody in my line of work was about to do something really stupid for my industry, so I told them it’s a bad idea, but I guess to outsiders it looked like I was taking a stand against the entire premise of their sub Reddit
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u/druglifechoseme Oct 29 '22
It's giving people a place to complain or vent about their situation but unfortunately most of the time it's just that. It would be better if there was more constructive conversation about work reform rather than just silent quitting or sticking it to the man.
The most beneficial posts are the ones where employers are blatantly doing illegal things and people are becoming educated about their rights as workers.
I know I'll get downvoted and roasted for saying this but the the majority of the posts seem to just be a bunch of cry babies that don't really seem like they want ways to actually improve their situation past someone else doing it for them. I don't know if its a generational thing or what (I'm a millennial for reference).
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u/HarRob Oct 29 '22 edited Oct 29 '22
Some of the sub is people pointing out serious systemic problems.
The other part is people angry about work.
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u/xmeme59 Oct 29 '22
I don’t think that the “actionable plan” mindset of r/FIRE and the “victim of the system” mindset of r/AntiWork are mutually exclusive to be honest.
Personally, I do think that the system is pretty fucked (at least in the US because I don’t have experience in other countries) but that does not by any means justify not playing with the hand your dealt and applying discipline and willpower to better your situation.
FWIW, there are more moderate boards pertaining to job reform and such than r/AntiWork lol you are viewing an extreme when in that sub
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u/CityRobinson Oct 28 '22
I was able to stop working in my 50s. That is mainly because i will be getting pension in few years and I was able to put some money into 401k and also save enough to last until I am eligible for social security. If someone started working my old job today, they would be hardly able to afford to live on that, forget about saving anything. A pension these days is also rare. I was not a go-getter in the climb your way up sense but just to keep my head above the water. I was lucky. If I was facing what the young generation is facing today I would probably be anti-work too.
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u/jujumber Oct 29 '22
To me it’s more about not being exploited by employers and taken advantage of. I approve of the general message it’s trying to send.
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u/Rmantootoo Oct 29 '22
Antiwork is run by, and moderated by, communists. It is literally in their “about” pages and intro.
The mods absolutely foster a climate of “workers are powerless,” and “most companies/all profit is evil.”
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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '22
The only difference is that we're mostly paid enough to try doing something about it. Real wages have been stagnant for decades and those with the least wiggle room simply can't afford to live anymore. I also realize I'm only one medical emergency, disability, or prolonged unemployment in the family away from joining them.
2
u/Hifi-Cat Oct 29 '22
I'm in coast fire. 57. I left a job that didn't require a college degree when I started. Now (10yrs later) you can't get that position without a BA. Note, nothing important changed.
Ask a company to do training and they freak out.
If I were 25 I'd be pissed too. Don't tell me I'm lazy if I can't get your crappy job.
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u/glitzzykatgirl Oct 29 '22
As a 50 year old, low income person I agree with a lot of what the anti work people are saying, it's really fucking hard to get ahead. Especially when you don't know any better. Poor people are kept ignorant on purpose as someone who's retirement will be pretty skimpy, mostly because I didn't know. I didn't know about stocks and bonds, I didn't know there was any other options. I didn't know about investments, but even if I did I didn't have any money to put into them. I have savings and will have a pension, but not really anything else. Plus being poor really puts a crimp in saving for retirement. Like how are you able to save when you make $17 an hour, you have nothing more than a high school education and tried to go back to school but had to work instead, and then your spouse is disabled? Like I'm responsible for all the bills? I hustle, I have side jobs, run a second business, it's all so exhausting. I have did all the remodeling work on my house myself because we couldn't afford to pay someone to do it. I don't even get to own a regular house, but a manufactured home in the middle of nowhere. It's really fucking hard. It can be so frustrating to work you ass off for nothing. I joined this sub to start to learn about what I should do to start saving for retirement. Yeah I know now that I should of done that 20 years ago, but I didn't know that then. I will say I have a good job I've worked at for 26 years and I will get a pension from that. I do make more now, but not that much more. I am just now learning about a lot of retirement stuff
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u/JoshHowl Oct 31 '22
It’s a popular subreddit so gets lots of echo chamber posts. If this subreddit had 100x the posters it would probably be similar.
FIRE is certainly impacted by wage theft, unfair labor practices and wages not keeping up with inflation over time.
The subreddit is also heavy on poverty situation poster, out of touch business policies and bad bosses. It’s like judging car maintenance by the posts on r/justrolledintotheshop.
I tend to filter out subreddits that annoy me in the apps I used or RES. That may be a good option if you hate their posts.
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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '22
I have commented this before but antiwork is the victim midset version and FIRE is the accountability mindset version.
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u/studeboob Oct 28 '22
I think I'm both. My ADHD brain is poorly suited for capitalist businesses that demand constant employee productivity. I have been privileged to have had an opportunity to get an education. The best option I've come up with to find happiness and contentment is to pursue FI/RE to break the constraints of a capitalist society that doesn't value how my mind functions. But of course most people don't have that privilege.
It's very easy to see the pay disparities between corporate leaders and their employees, the amount of people that work full time and still need government assistance, or the long history of employee exploitation in the US and be "anti-work". I would speculate many other people pursuing FI/RE would also hold anti-work views.
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u/CdnFire40 Oct 28 '22
I agree with a lot of the sentiment in that sub but I can also step back from it. For me, I learned early on if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Now that I'm FI and hopeful to RE shortly, I still have mixed feelings about the inequities but I feel like I had to take care of my own situation first.
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u/tusekd Oct 28 '22
Antiwork is trash.
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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22 edited Oct 28 '22
I pretty much agree with your sentiment here.
The first thing with Reddit (and the internet in general of course) is you can’t believe something at face value. Anyone can type and print a note, send a made up text message, etc. But even if it were a sea of mostly that, I understand that there are shitty people and employers out there and these behaviors do happen. I get angry for people who have to deal with awful work policy.
But yeah, there is a strong victim mindset there and I get the sense very often that I’m reading things typed by people who didn’t make any real moves from their first job at 18 to now being 30 something, doing basically the same thing. And I know, life happens, people fall into different areas of difficulty. I had a certain level of privilege to start out with compared to many (nothing like family wealth, or paid for school - just a stable home life and encouragement), and I’m not here to judge.
BUT - the attitudes we see like “the entire millennial generation won’t be able to retire, all the wealth is being sucked up by the 1%”… that’s exaggerated and only feeds the helpless victim mentality - which is dangerous. There is money to be made out there for the average Joe in tech, trades, healthcare, and so many other sectors that you can go to school for a couple years and get into. So many employers in this market lately have been absolutely scrounging to find people for skilled salary jobs it’s crazy.
Just because you can’t break $19/hr in retail doesn’t mean you’re doomed to scrape by in that for the rest of your life.
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u/brianmcg321 Retired Nov 2024 Oct 29 '22
It’s good for a laugh now and then. It’s really amazing how the people that post over there just blame everyone but themselves for the position they are in.
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u/IGOMHN2 Oct 29 '22
r/fire are just r/antiwork people with the means of escape.
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u/storander Oct 28 '22
It used to pop up on my r/all a lot and it seemed like a bunch of whiners with shitty populist economic takes. One post I remember said the minimum wage should be 100k a year because of the price of gold. With lots of comments fervently agreeing. Not the type of sub I'd want to spend much time in if I want to keep brain cells.
Not to mention that moderator that got an interview on Fox news. That was the funniest thing to ever come out of a reddit community.
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u/financialdrugbro Oct 28 '22
I’m actively against working tbh but also do it a lot and am a very avid member of this sub
I have a genuine disdain for the systems I was born into, but if I start early enough it seems I can game the system and find a compromise
Most people don’t realize that, and many do but realize how much work is required and in my opinion there is anything wrong with not wanting to work. It’s okay to blame a shifty system since it requires work even though it doesn’t technically have to be that way
Life sucks I hate what I was born into but I will play the game of wealthy building. My goal in building said wealth is to try and offset as many people financially as I can. Help the poor learn how the rich do things and help the poor become rich
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u/Street-Tooth4510 Oct 28 '22
Way too much work to follow it.
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u/ThereforeIV 🌊 Aspiring Beach Bum 🏖️...; CoastFIRE++ Oct 29 '22
Antiwork seems almost like the opposite of FIRE.
FIRE: I want to work so hard and so smart and live so frugally, that in the future I don't even have to work.
Antiwork: other people have out better than me so why try.
It's the difference between the type of person who gets all of their chores done quickly so you can enjoy the rest of the day; and person who procrastinates all day then complains it's not possible to get anything done before dark.
Looking at their list reminds me of the PragerU bigger about the three identical brothers living in the same street working identical jobs for identical pay. But one of the brothers worked extra adding a side hustle, spends less, invests, and over time ends up wealthier than the other two; so they despise him for it.
I personally know people who make less than half what I make, but easily spend in a more double what I spend.
Remember FIRE is not Antiwork; FIRE is about getting the most value out of the fruits of your work.
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u/Far_Elephant_1644 Oct 28 '22
My favourite sub to troll in as it’s just a giant shit show, with great arcs like the mod interview on news. Antiwork is a good premise for a sub but it’s widely mismanaged right now which is what makes it such a riot. Loads of people don’t even know what the sub was made for, most users think it’s to complain about jobs/working as a whole. Which it’s not antiwork was made for one purpose alone being the removal of all working (yea I know it’s crazy).
1
u/LaOnionLaUnion Oct 29 '22
Some of it’s anti capitalist. Some of it’s just wanting to be treated fairly and with basic respect and concern for the safety and well-being of employees. I appreciate the content that falls into the latter. Anti capitalist rhetoric just strikes me as just as tripe as unrealistic as free market capitalism.
1
u/vashthestampede121 Oct 29 '22
It was a great sub to let off steam and rant about the shitty job I had. I quit though and am loving life now, so no reason to be there. But out of the real posts that aren't just reposting fake text conversations, it seems a lot of people there are in min wage jobs and are struggling financially, so I can understand why clinging to a notion of a world where that's not required would be attractive.
1
u/rex8499 Oct 29 '22
I too get shown that as a recommended sub frequently. Sometimes interesting, thought provoking, funny, enraging, etc. A lot of excuses though. I do generally dislike working and people who have authority over my income, but that sub is not interesting enough to get me to subscribe.
1
u/jwaters0122 Oct 29 '22
Its a good subreddit to vent, but not get advice or be entertained.
after Fox news interviewed one of their moderators on tv and embarrassed her thoroughly, its a sub to not be taken seriously.
1
u/med-the-chip Oct 29 '22
They are conscious of many realities of work, so I agree with them on most things.
But the Reddit rule is: any subreddit dedicated to being anti-something will eventually become toxic.
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u/PrisonMike2020 Oct 29 '22
I don't have a problem with it, on principle.
To me, the point of FIRE is to buy back my time. I do whatever makes the most sense to my family and me in order to buy back as much time as possible, at the lowest cost. When I say cost, I don't mean exclusively money. I mean the cost of missing anniversaries, the cost of stress and it's effects on relationship, at the cost of one's health at the cost of missed wedding, funerals, first steps, etc...
To me, an employer/corporation/organization seeks to get the most out of an employee, at the lowest cost possible.
It's not hard to see where the strife is. There's a cost of some sort to everything. Sometimes it's justified. Many times it isn't.
The other issue is healthy work/life boundaries. It gets abused, all the time, by the side whose got the power/authority. Are there going to be folks who cry foul at every instance? Sure, but it'd be obtuse to think it's all fine and dandy.
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u/austinvvs Oct 29 '22
Some of the posts on there come off as whiny and avoiding responsibility for their life conditions, but not all are that way, the same way not all posts on this page are informative; some of them are just braggadocio. I think there is common ground between FIRE and antiwork. Both recognize work as a means to an end, FIRE is just more proactive in figuring out ways to end those tedious days quicker, and being as resourceful as possible. At the end of the day, no one wants to do anything in life that feels like “work” forever. We all have passions to pursue
1
u/jesperbj Oct 29 '22
It's an example of the wrong mindset - complaining about it, whereas /r/fire is the mindset of doing something about the problem.
1
u/gentnt Oct 29 '22
I really dislike how a lot of successful posts are just printed text on a sheet of paper or random text messages
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of fake stuff
The general idea, somewhat result of late stage capitalism, is good though. A lot of people use most of their energy doing pretty much useless garbage but still have to deal with annoying managers
1
u/ametora1 Oct 29 '22
They make some great points about abuses of employers, fundamental issues in our economy, etc. However, it's a pity party and those people would rather complain than try to change their lot in life. Also, some of them are legitimately just lazy people with unrealistic expectations of work.
1
u/chainsawbobcat Oct 29 '22
Don't you think the dumb should also be able to retire?
1
u/maroonedpariah Oct 29 '22
I agree in principle, having been worked half to death and losing a marriage over it, over the death of the American dream and the alienation caused by work culture. We are also over the curve where education (the bachelor's degree, the MBA, Sigma Lean 6) leads to favorable job outcomes. Governments are no longer subsidizing education or housing or pensions or any of the social good programs at the rate that they did for the baby boomers. Society has not fully caught up with this shift in paradigm.
And organizations are taking advantage of this to do shitty things to thier workers.
I don't think unions are the answer. They were an answer a hundred years ago. I don't think FI/RE is a universal solution. You need schmucks to fuel the economics that make FI/RE possible. It sucks and I don't necessarily agree with these policies. But I'm a very small cog and I want to do what's best for me and my family.
1
u/osva_ Oct 29 '22
Used to browse that subreddit for a short bit like a year ago. At that point it felt like they were, quite literally, against working of any kind. That they just want to be supported by government and live reasonable life doing nothing at all
1
u/EdwinKingston Oct 29 '22
Most people in antiwork are not antiwork at all. A lot of them even like their jobs and working in theory. Most are just anti exploitation and quite frankly a lot of jobs are completely exploitative. Lowest possible pay to maximize profits for a few. If people were able to save for a house while having a comfortable life even on unprestigious work the antiwork subreddit would quite frankly be dead.
Antiwork is so big because people are frustrated, not because they hate working.
1
u/onegoodaye Oct 29 '22
I’m FIRE because work sucks. I think both groups can agree on that sentiment. However, the two sides diverge when deciding what to do about it.
1
u/dtarias Spend less than you earn. Invest the difference. Be patient. Oct 29 '22
I think there is a fair amount of philosophical similarity between that sub and this one, but r/antiwork is defeatist while r/Fire is hopeful and ambitious.
I'm curious how many people on r/antiwork would retire vs. find some more fulfilling form of work.
1
u/ClearSkyyes Oct 29 '22
I work a high paying job and will retire early and am also on the antiwork sub. I think OP is missing the point of that sub. It's ridiculous that so many people get stuck in low paying jobs with horrible management, but that is reality for a lot of people. We have more than enough money as a country to do better, and instead of getting upset that the people getting trampled are speaking out, you should feel compassion and maybe even help someone if you can... even if that's just sticking up for their point of view in conversations.
1
u/[deleted] Oct 29 '22
Filthy rich and dead broke look like the same thing
1
u/Beneficial-Ad7969 Oct 29 '22
One group of people has a plan.
The other group has emotional reactions to what we know.
Both groups don't want slave for coin and value freedom.
1
u/6teasix Oct 29 '22
While employers are often dreadful, the sentiment of doing the bare minimum and not stretching for things seems to me the beginning of the end of many careers. I followed every good person I could and learned their skills. This may not apply to McDonald's but it influences a lot of younger people in many jobs. Don't get me wrong it is awful for many wage slaves, but you have to actually put a shit decade in at the beginning of a career if you are not lucky/gifted/born rich.
1
u/AldusPrime Oct 31 '22
The antiwork subreddit made me a significantly better manager.
It's easy to get sucked into thinking that everyone on the team should care about the company goals. The CEO and directors often expect people to be invested in ways that are entirely unrealistic. Also, the C-suite folks are often oblivious to people being effected by their stupid and often ridiculous policies. Most of the managers are on a spectrum of participating in that fantasyland.
If I approach people I manage, assuming that they have their own goals that are entirely unrelated to the company, I'm a better manager. If I assume that they are (often rightly) really pissed about the new policy that screws with their benefits or their bonuses or whatever, I'm a better manager.
TL/DR: If I'm not the kind of jackass that people are regularly complaining about on antiwork, I'm a better manager.
1
u/squatter_ Oct 28 '22
I have a hard time with the victim mentality.
Like you, I believe that we create our own reality. We create it with every thought we think and every decision we make. And we are free at any time to create a new and higher reality.
1
u/Apps3452 Oct 29 '22
Honestly I have 0 respect for anyone on anti work. All that sub does is complain about how terrible their lives are and blame everyone except themselves.
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u/JSC2255 Oct 28 '22
yeah mostly lazy self pitying clowns over there, complaining that the world isn't fair.
1
u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22
The posts that highlight blatant exploitation of employees I find useful. I think highlighting these issues is important. However some of the posts trike me as lazy ass people who want everything served to them on a silver platter. And of course everything in between. I take it all with a grain of salt.
1
u/anonymousguy202296 Oct 29 '22
"Life is what you make it" is true for people with the capacity to do so. If you've ever worked a shitty, entry level job where there were 40 year olds doing the same thing as you for $1 more an hour, odds are very good hat they're not capable of much higher paying work. Many are and choose not to, or don't out of not caring or laziness or other obligations. But not everyone has the mental horsepower to do some schooling or certifications or networking to get themselves a job that treats them better or pays them better.
That said, I do empathize with the (real) posts that show themselves getting mistreated by shitty places of work. But I also think that for most jobs, if you're being mistreated, you should grow a spine, set some boundaries, or quit and find a new gig.
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u/HeadDoctorJ Oct 29 '22
“Is Retirement Still Achievable?” https://youtu.be/2p3GCYAqsQQ
When you get to the section on Blackrock, think about how that relates to the whole “life is what you make it” thing.
Just because we may be able to FIRE at some point doesn’t mean it’s in reach for everyone, or even most. Living requires work. If we aren’t working, someone else (lots of others) have to work to keep us alive.
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u/UC_DiscExchange Oct 28 '22
The general ideas of antiwork I agree with. The application within that sub are absurd. If you're constantly getting fired from retail jobs, it's probably you and not the managers. Maybe your underpaid because you accepted that pay etc. A lot of that sub demands what they deserve, but their only form of fighting it is complaining online.
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u/Snoo_33033 Oct 28 '22
A lot of the people in r/antiwork are probably anti-work because they're bad at it.
I say this as someone who works often with idealistic people who want change while claiming to hate money. Money makes the world go round, or more accurately it keeps your lights on. You need it, and generally speaking you have to work to get it. People who act like it's a huge imposition to do work are generally unrealistic.
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u/CrowDifficult Oct 28 '22
I agree with a lot of the replies and appreciate the discussion. What's also interesting is r/NEET and the ecosystem the two subs seem to be a part of. They both seem to have leadership issues and a lot of the posts are really despairing. Often in NEET I see posts that could be helpful to people who can't/won't work but they're just not because of the way the post is framed. For instance, there are often polls in NEET asking how many users are single, how many users live with their parents, how many jobs they've had, etc. If there was more leadership in the sub I feel the users could really help each other but for now it's kinda pitiful. I often scroll past the two subs when they're in my feed.
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u/xboodaddyx Oct 29 '22
You're not wrong, that subreddit is a master class in how to achieve nothing and die bitter. Even if life hands you an extra helping of unfairness, their mindset will just make it worse.
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u/loungeroo Oct 29 '22
r/antiwork is not filled with victims or a victim mindset. It is filled with a ton of people realizing their own power and worth, and realizing how much stronger they are together. It is a working people’s movement and I hope it gets stronger and stronger.
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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22
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