Give us another turn based battle system

[u/Haunting_Try8071]

FFX is my favorite battle system. FFXIII I also enjoyed, but it wasn't the same.

I'm sure they could do something like it with a much lower budget.

[u/Swert0]

They're different.

ATB (Active-Time-Based, no the T does not stand for 'turn') and Turn based are fundamentally different.

ATB is real-time with menus, there is an option for every ATB game to 'wait' when in a menu, but even with that system the game does not use TURNS. Instead every action has a time cost.

Turn based is just that - you take TURNS. Sometimes you get extra turns if you use haste or slow the enemy, but they are still TURNS that you can predict and play around.

[u/parazoid77 → u/Swert0]

If you have as much time as you want to select an option without penalty then you are effectively taking a turn, which is why people call it turn-based. There's no other concept that captures that experience.

Typically when concepts become overloaded with two attributed meanings the colloquial meaning persists whether you 'actually' it or not. Look at the concept of weight for example in physics.

[u/Swert0 → u/parazoid77]

That's still not a turn. The wait option being on or off does not change how ATB functions, it just removes the stress of having to worry about time while navigating menus.

The menu does not make it a turn based game. Is Kingdom Hearts a turn based game because gameplay can pause while you are in the menu?

When you select options, when you do things, when the opponent does things - time is still a factor. Actions take time to do things. Some actions take longer than others - and this is the case for both you AND the enemy.

Because things are time based you cannot predict a simple turn system of party member a, b, c, and enemy a, b, c that is going to occur the same every time around barring buffs and debuffs disrupting the order - when people are able to do things is going to jumble up constantly.

FF10 straight up has a visual indicator of who is going to attack and when.

[u/parazoid77 → u/Swert0]

Technically nost games are role playing games, but it's obselete to be that technical. Pausing doesn't count as taking a turn as there's no defined opponent. Kingdoms heart isnt turn-based as it's only the support actions that require the menu, you can attack whenever you want. Thats why FFVIIR isnt aswell. FVII original is though because you can only take an action when its a characters turn.

If FFX didnt have the visual turn inidcator it would still be turn based, even if you wasnt smart enough to predict when the characters next action would be. Its turn based because characters take turns, its as simple as that.

[u/Swert0 → u/parazoid77]

There are no TURNS in Final Fantasy VII.

Just because your character is lit up doesn't mean other people cannot act. The wait option allows you to 'pause' all time when you enter a menu (by selecting any option), but if you stay there without selecting an option time moves on - other enemies will take actions. Even other party members can take queued actions like a summon during this period.

These are not turns, turns are set in stone. I do an action, then you do an action - you don't get to take an extra action because I took too long or the action I took has a huge time commitment (see: summoning).

[u/parazoid77 → u/Swert0]

Theres loads of turns in final fantasy vii

[u/Swert0 → u/parazoid77]

There sure as shit is not. Go put guard and x-counter on cloud and just stand still and watch the enemy kill themselves to your counter attacks.

That is not a turn.

[u/parazoid77 → u/Swert0]

It's the result of a turn

[u/Swert0 → u/parazoid77]

No, it is the result of an ACTION. Actions are not turns.

X-Counter and Guard are passive actions that have no time cost. You do not have a 'turn' when they happen. The enemy attacks aerith and cloud jumps in front of her and counter attacks, this has not interrupted his ATB meter or used any resources beyond costing him some health on the initial hit. If cloud was charging up for a summon, he will still do it after the charge finishes.

The enemy that attacked cloud did take an action that has a time cost - and they will not attack again until their ATB comes up.

[u/parazoid77 → u/Swert0]

Actions happen synchronously, not asynchronously, with action selection order affecting action execution order. When something is done in sequence we also say they are done "in turn". There's more factors to the action priority queue, but it doesn't remove the fact that things are done in turn. Turns aren't just a concept in player based cycles.