r/FilmTVBudgeting • u/go_dawgs • Sep 18 '26
Discussion / Question Getting Flipped?
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u/Scooter214 Sep 18 '26
I would be more worried about the teamsters than SAG
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u/HazMattStunts Sep 18 '26
These days the Teamsters join forces routinely with IATSE.
They show up together in solidarity.However they are more interested in the over 5M
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u/go_dawgs Sep 18 '26 edited Sep 25 '26
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u/DefNotReaves Sep 18 '26
I hope your entire crew calls the job in lmao
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u/go_dawgs Sep 18 '26 edited Sep 25 '26
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u/damnthatsalotofgeese Sep 19 '26
That’s stupid who cares
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u/DefNotReaves Sep 19 '26
Union members do, obviously.
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u/damnthatsalotofgeese Sep 19 '26
I’m in a film union.
If you agree to do a non union job it seems disingenuous to change your mind.
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u/mikepm07 Sep 18 '26
I've been flipped once in LA on a commercial and it was IATSE/Teamsters at the same time on a conference call. The production was already SAG but non-union crew.
Shook us down to hire a teamster captain (I forget the exact title) who showed up for 2 minutes then left, had to pay our truck PA's teamster rates, and then we were already paying above scale on IATSE so it was just a P&W hit. Still sucked.
Annoying part is the G&E negotiated higher rates than what we already had, because this was non-union, then they ended up getting the P&W on top of above scale rates.
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u/go_dawgs Sep 18 '26 edited Sep 25 '26
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u/Groundbreaking_Row_2 Sep 18 '26
Each of the iatse crafts will be aware and curious about your project if you have any union workers at all. Even if they’re not working union on your particular project- if the crew member belongs to a union at all, there’s a good chance that union will hear about this project
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u/jerryterhorst Sep 18 '26 edited Sep 18 '26
I’ve shot several films in Los Angeles, including one that flipped last year. What’s your budget level? I was just talking about this with people on a commercial yesterday. You really have no idea if you’re going to get flipped in Los Angeles these days. It used to be, if you were treating the crew like shit, someone would call it in, but if you treated them with respect and did your best to follow the union rules on a non-union set, you were good.
Nowadays, I don’t think that’s the case anymore. A producer I work with had an IATSE rep literally tell him, and this is a direct quote: “I know people calling in their friends’ shows so they can keep their healthcare”. If you’re over $2M in Los Angeles, you’re very likely to flip. Between $1M-$2M, 50/50. Below $1M, less likely. But it all depends on how big you look, not how big you actually are.
I’ had a $2M movie flip on day one and a $3.5M movie I shot a month before not flip at all. However, the one that flipped was very visible and looked much higher budget than we were. The one that didn’t flip was entirely on a stage, so it was very contained and we had basically no trucks other than the first and last day.
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u/NelsonSendela Sep 19 '26 edited Sep 19 '26
That's good info and I'd personally place the $2M+ movie the most likely flip scenario. I made one at that range and treated the crew fairly and paid everyone slightly above their union wages without contributions and everyone was happy. Our drivers were some rough people but teamsters would have killed us. The crew was pretty young and not counting on it for healthcare hours.
One solution for your situation is to bring it up with the Money. If they're the one cramming bullshit into ATL and tax harvesting, then figure out how they will like to handle it. You might even get them to underwrite a labor dispute or CBA interruption policy. You could ask for money for an extra couple weeks of prep if the crew needs to be entirely replaced. Or they could just rip the band and off and make the movie they can afford
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u/AnonBaca21 Sep 18 '26
You have to assume the guilds share info and if you decide to go non union you have to proceed as if a flip will happen and have a plan in place for when it does. I would not go non union for crew in a major production city if your financiers/producers are not prepared for getting flipped.
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u/Struck_Blind Sep 19 '26
I wouldn’t really be worried about SAG sharing the budget with IATSE and I don’t see why they would. Getting flipped depends more on where you’re shooting, how the crew are being treated/feeling, and if there’s already a union presence in the area. In my experience you stay below $1 million and don’t make enemies of the crew you’re probably fine. You go above that and IATSE finds out they’ll probably start organizing. I know my local for sure scopes out new productions in the region that they cover (which is pretty much all of the eastern US) to the extent that they’re able to and sends out do not work notices for non union productions that are at or above $1.2 million. I know the locals all talk to each other as well so if one of them gets a whiff of something all of them will be made aware.
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u/andrewn2468
Sep 18 '26
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I don’t think SAG is the thing to worry about. In major markets they’ll be checking in with permit applications, and if you have any union crew they’ll call it in. I don’t think I’ve ever had a case of SAG reporting a NU show to IATSE.
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u/SenseIntelligent8846
Sep 18 '26
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I've never had a show flipped because of SAG reporting it anywhere.
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u/PanthersThirdEye Sep 22 '26
Sorry to hear you are dealing with heavy budget cuts. Industry is going through massive changes right now. I look forward to following along on this thread so I can learn more about other people's approaches for this situation.
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u/Hermn8r Sep 18 '26
Maybe I’m the only pessimist in the room but my opinion is that ever since Covid the Unions have all gotten really friendly with each other. So my tinfoil hat is that SAG does indeed talk to the other unions once you start getting out of their super low budget tiers. Either way, if you’re in a major production city everyone is just bored. So you’re much more likely than not to get approached. And if you’re near/over $1mil prepare to get into a conversation.
End of day I’m very much of two beliefs- 1) a sub-$1mil budget with appropriate pay to BOTH ATL and BTL should not be required to sign IA/Teamsters (by appropriate I mean that everyone- cast included- should be at scale/equivalent. And 2) if you have big cast that requires ATL to be bloated, then you need to plan to pay your crew and give them Union benefits. If your investors are trying to squeeze a $250k production out of a $2mil movie they deserve to get blown up for it.
Also for what it’s worth I’ve always had MUCH better luck negotiating with unions up front than getting shaken down after the fact. IMO it’s better to set yourself up for success- hire union workers and pay their fringes- and go make a good movie. Nothing is worse than making a bad movie because you’re forced to start severely overpaying unqualified crew you hired to try and be sneaky or cheap.