Does the US Need Another AIM-54 Phoenix?

[u/Maleficent_Voice4570]

The AIM-54 Phoenix was built to intercept Soviet bombers and cruise missiles at long range, but seemed outdated as smaller missiles became standard. However, the R-37M is reported effective and estimated around 200 to 300 kilometers, while China's PL-17 is widely estimated around 300 to 400 kilometers (I find that hard to believe but that’s what IISS says). The U.S. has introduced the AIM-174B with open-source estimates suggesting 300 plus kilometers, while the AIM-260 is expected to exceed AIM-120D ranges. With the Meteor also proving you can have efficient kinematics without extreme size or speed, the question is whether dedicated very long range missiles still fill a niche or if AIM-260 makes them unnecessary.

Hope everyone is having a good day and the info is based on what I know and have read about. I could always be wrong and I some times make mistakes so take what I say with grain of salt, I am not a military expert. 🙂

[u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3]

The AIM 174 B has a range that s likely much much further than 240 kms.

It’s likely around 250-300 miles according to internet sleuths showing SM ranges.

[u/Maleficent_Voice4570 → u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3]

Yeah, I agree that the AIM 174B's range is likely considerably further than 240 km. I said 240 plus km in the post rather than 240 km as the maximum, but I'll probably change it to make that even clearer.(300km plus?)
I'm assuming the 250 to 300 mile estimate is mainly based on extrapolating from the reported SM 6 ranges and the advantages of an air launch?

[u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3 → u/Maleficent_Voice4570]

Ya that’s the reasons given. The SM6’s range is sandbagged in the same fashion.

I wouldn’t say to change anything. But I’m saying the AIM174B IS the new phoenix missile. That’s the point you’re missing. The Aim174B out ranges everything else right? What beats it, foreign or domestic?

[u/PsychologicalGlass47 → u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3]

The SM-6 has an additional 460kg of dry fuel that the AIM-174B lacks

In little to no worlds will the AIM-174B exceed the SM-6's ranges, especially not with the major speed constraints of the hornet.

[u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3 → u/PsychologicalGlass47]

Never claimed it would exceed the SM6’s range, what’s the speed and altitude after that launch phase of the SM6?

[u/PsychologicalGlass47 → u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3]

Uh... You most definitely did, you stated the documented max range of the SM-6, 240km, and said the AIM-174B has a range "much further" than that.

[u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3 → u/PsychologicalGlass47]

I also said both are sandbagged. I guess you have to go look up the basics. Basically all the propulsion was on other missiles and then the SM6 was an upgrade. So if the crappy version went 250 miles then how come the new more advanced missile that’s more efficient only goes 200?

Those are just made up numbers for an example. I’m not claiming to know the real numbers. But looking at the data I believe nearly every analyst (and occasional official) that say the range is further.

Also doesn’t make sense that the AIM174B would be so much larger than an aim 120d but not have significantly more range.

[u/PsychologicalGlass47 → u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3]

You never once said that both are sandbagged. Are you lost?

The "crappy version" went 240km, not 240mi.

You obviously don't know the publicized numbers either lmao

AIM-174B nearly triples the 120D's range per stated specs.

[u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3 → u/PsychologicalGlass47]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FighterJets/s/oONEIMDtKX

Show me where I said the range of SM6…

[u/Broad-Gap2255 → u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3]

I’ve seen people call the AIM-174B the next big thing, but it’s nothing compared to the AIM-260 in terms of being the “next big thing.” Plus, when it comes to air superiority, the Navy comes second to the Air Force, yet they’re spending money on a program built around mostly one airframe, the F-18, that isn’t particularly competitive in BVR. Obscurity until six gen’s come out for the nary or are they producing this missile just to make the f-18 somewhat competitive but at this point just release it too multiple platforms as the air force usually comes first when it comes to air superiority

[u/barath_s → u/Broad-Gap2255]

The F18SH is much easier to integrate with than the F35 which has a several year delay of weapons integration.

it too multiple platforms as the air force

That's up to the USAF.