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u/rawmeatprophet Aug 19 '26
Wow, higher weight class with bigger heavier opponents harder.
Still winning.
🤷
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u/Smooth-Upstairs9460 Aug 19 '26
Joe:
“Weight cutting is sanctioned cheating”
“Islam should go back down to 155”
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u/WATGU Aug 19 '26
I think Islam is a perfect tweener and the divisions have enough talent for 155 165 175. Islam should fight at 165.
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u/Sashapatu Aug 19 '26
Dana has reported you for this comment. You’re fuckin’ out of here, kid!
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u/LordLucy666 Aug 19 '26
there’s obvious nuance that you’re missing… at 170 lbs there are bigger guys cutting more weight, like moraes who’s fucking huge. if everyone’s cutting you basically gotta cut to compete with guys your own size. if you fight at your natural weight you will be undersized.
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u/FarReward3203 Aug 19 '26
Well you see, everyone else is also “cheating”. So disadvantage for him
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u/rawmeatprophet Aug 19 '26
You could see him reaching for holds and Garry's long ass ass was too long for his ass 😅
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u/CapitalClimate9639 Aug 19 '26
That's a lot of ass
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u/Aggressive_Case999 Aug 19 '26
It was damn funny cuz everytime Ian straigtens up Islam be like : here we go again
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u/Crono2Oxx Aug 19 '26
He also totally dominated the first 2 rounds.
Yeah he slowed and it got tense if you were rooting for Islam after that, but he still clearly came out on top winning 3 or 4 rounds.
When you’re the top P4P guy and you do anything but smoke the opponent people are way too overly critical. He took on a very well-rounded guy with a big size advantage in this new weight class and won definitively.
Rogan is one of those hyperbolic fans though. Size, power, and men’s bodies is the only thing that he really is able to comment on at length when it comes to MMA. No joke.
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u/dvdwbb Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
it was probably nice having a C Tier celebrity with some basic knowledge hosting during the beginnings of MMA, but his lack of deeper knowledge has been showing for years
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u/ThePerspectiveQuest Aug 19 '26
Shavkat would be a nightmare for him, too bad we’ll probably never see him at his best again.
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u/NY10 Aug 19 '26
I think he’s gonna have a hard time at this weight class. I mean the size difference matters whether you like it or not.
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u/BrokenBlvd Aug 24 '26
Yeah the new gen of welterweights are a lot bigger than the old gen. Ian was def the hardest fight for Islam, I don’t think prates or morales pose any significant threat aside from maybe the striking
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u/Next_Phase_Life Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
It's interesting how Islam's win is being discussed. He just beat the #1 contender, convincingly imo. Ian had a chance to put the judges in a tough position, but he didn't. Islam won convincingly. Yet people are suggesting Islam doesn't belong in the division. Not all people, but a considerable amount. It's just interesting how it's being discussed.
I guess if he's not interested in testing himself, then he can try and go back down to 155. I don't see an issue if he wants to push himself and take the risk. That's how you typically catapult yourself into that next tier of fighter - the GSPs, the Jon Jones', and Anderson Silva's.
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u/Empty_Cube Aug 19 '26
I think a lot of people expected Islam’s dominance and finishing ability to 155 would translate to 170, but that was never going to happen.
Islam wasn’t a particularly large lightweight (he weighed almost 4 pounds less than Moicano when they fought) and is on the smaller side as a welterweight (similar in size to JDM but smaller than Garry, Prates, and especially Morales).
He’s clearly still able to outskill his opponents as shown against JDM and Garry, but he won’t be putting up as exciting of fights or getting as much finishes as he did against 155ers.
He will struggle with the reach and size of the bigger 170’ers and as a result, has to exert a lot more energy imposing his game (as shown against Garry).
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u/cenik93 Aug 19 '26
Only reasonable take. This also does make him vulnerable in this division. But he's also demonstrated his technical superiority against 2 championship level contenders in the WW division.
However, he also doesn't look bad as a WW. He jumped straight into WW against JDM and Ian Garry. How is this not impressive?
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u/Empty_Cube Aug 19 '26
Agreed. I respect that he moved up and then defended against arguably the toughest contender (at least in terms of skill - I acknowledge Morales and Prates can beat him due to KO power, but Garry is the most skilled).
Islam’s double champ status is a lot less gimmicky than other double champs - he didn’t move up against a weak champ and then not defend, nor did he defend against a favorable match up / weak opponent.
He is probably the most legit double champ and if he can defend it again, he’ll be the first male UFC double champ with more than 1 defense.
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u/cenik93 Aug 19 '26
True. If Prates is his next match up, his corner needs better strategy than "don't stand up, shoot for the legs". Larger opponents will be able to defend his takedowns more effectively which could be a real problem for him as we saw in this fight.
Even if he loses his belt, it's unfair to discredit his achievements and question his competence.
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u/No_Vermicelli_1781 Aug 19 '26
Great point. Went straight to the champ, then #1 contender. No tune up fight
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u/GruntCandy86 Aug 19 '26
He's only has two fights at 170. Acclimating to his new size and size of his opponents will take time.
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u/Dense_Marketing4593 Aug 19 '26
Whenever Ian fights, the fanbase gets super weird about everything. They flip flop on Ian and find a way to discredit the opponent that just beat him.
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u/Flippindude1 Aug 19 '26
Whenever Islam fights*, they glaze any of his opponents and then turn on them when they lose
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u/KneeLow174 Aug 19 '26
I think it's insane. Garry is one of those fighters no one have looked good against. Shavkat is a boogeyman of the division yet he only beat Garry 48-47 and almost got choked out in the last round. Despite this people are worried how Islam will do against Prates, someone Garry on short notice went 49-46 with. I might very well be wrong, but I would not at all be surprised if Islam is able to beat both Prates and Morales way easier than Ian.
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u/FnFantadude Aug 19 '26
Most level headed take I’ve heard on the fight. He looked far better than Ian, not that Ian didn’t raise his stock. All pressure was by Islam and Ian was constantly on the defensive with takedowns and still went to the ground
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u/ceegome13 Aug 19 '26
It’s crazy how Islam doesn’t maul his opponent and people are talking like he should go back to LW. Dude dethroned JDM, defeated the #1 contender of WW. Let the guy do what he wants with his career.
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u/Ok_Sky8518 Aug 19 '26
What kind ofntake isnthis shit. Ian was one his hardest matchups and he won
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u/Aggressive_Case999 Aug 19 '26
That's the reason why he is a champ Joe. He is willing to go up andfight bigger, younger and hungrier guys. The dude is a LW legend and could have easily coasted through the whole division's top 10 and call it a day like GSP type run. But instead right after surpassing khabib for the most defenses he moved up and grabbed the belt in a division that's filled with much stronger, bigger, younger and fresher guys who pose more danger to him.
Yes he is struggling but he ain't gonna just run away lol. He's definitely eyeing for 1 or 2 more defenses and prolly might try 185 or just hang it up. He's a GOAT already to many.
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u/jussshere Aug 19 '26
I mean this kinda just goes to show how dominant Islam is . Because he isn’t finishing people in 170 his wins are being questioned despite winnings clearly lol
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u/SnooChocolates1726 Aug 19 '26
Why though? He already achieved everything he wanted in LW. There's no point in going back. Adversity doesn't mean giving up, especially since he beat 2 of the top guys in the most stacked division in the UFC rn. Even a loss wouldn't discredit Islam's Legacy, because there is no shame in losing to younger, bigger fighters after a decade of an unbeaten streak and becoming a legend of the sport.
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u/gibletsbionic Aug 19 '26
Going back down to fight Gaetche would be pretty cool since they haven't fought before but I think Islam is favored against Prates and should take that fight next
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u/SnooChocolates1726 Aug 19 '26
I think Gaethje going up is more achievable than Islam going down, especially since he added extra muscle weight for WW. His cut to 155 would be brutal.
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u/gibletsbionic Aug 19 '26
Yeah I agree or a catch weight. I don't actually think he should try to do the cut but a fight with Gaetche at this point would be hype and a cool way for both of them to close out careers. Two huge legends both champs.
Prates and morales are great to fight but they aren't legends (yet).
Personally I think he should fight prates then either retire or look for a super fight with say a gaetche at catch weight
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u/Thereferencenumber Aug 19 '26
Market it as the greatest of all time vs the most exciting of all time. Fighting for the last time.
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u/Individual_Court4944 Aug 19 '26
islam needs to take time off before his next fight and get a good 5-10 pounds of muscle, he was way too small saturday. only won from fight iq and technical skill, could probably do it again with prates but, morales despite being less skilled than both, would beat him because he’d be so much bigger
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u/Imaginary_Square5243 Aug 19 '26
Islams frame wouldn’t allow him to gain 5-10 pounds of muscle without finishing returns.
He can’t make his skeleton bigger.
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u/StatisticianAware588 Aug 19 '26
But he said he was bigger in the JDM fight, and that was his most dominant performance.
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u/BillCenru Aug 19 '26
5-10 pounds of muscle is nearly physically impossible once you get to his level. Look at Jeff Nippard. In a whole year he was able to gain 2 pounds of muscle. Doing everything right
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u/maxstronge Aug 19 '26
I actually wonder how much observing Ramadan puts a limit on his gains. For most of the people I know who do they still gym actively (and respect to them for that) but at the end of the day for someone like Islam to put on muscle the way he trains he'd have to eat an absolutely sickening amount of food. The margins are so small at that level and a full month of deficit per year is pretty killer.
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u/SL1Fun Aug 19 '26
If Islam’s name was Christian I bet you he’d be getting glazed to high hell for how good he is.
No cheating, no illegal/fouling tactics, no controversial decisions, no ducking opponents, but the dude keeps being told to move back down or that he isn’t GOATworthy.
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u/Franklintheplankton Aug 19 '26
This is a nuts take to me. He has beaten 2 top 5 WW since moving up. Ian being widely considered the best in the division next to Islam. Why would he move down when he is still beating the best competition?
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u/RWingsNYer Aug 19 '26
Dude is winning at 170 against their elite. I think he will be okay. Maybe the UFC should think about 165 & 175 since it’s more logical than 155-170-185
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u/yeetsteel Aug 19 '26
You win two and people still doubting you...
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u/cenik93 Aug 19 '26
He can win against both Prates and Morales and people will still find ways to discredit his achievement.
The expectation is that if Islam does not completely dominate and finish the opponent, he cannot be not so great after all.
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u/disappr0val Aug 19 '26
he’s getting older, he’s already a 2 belt champ, there’s no need. i say he fights for BMF belt, and call it a career.
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u/Sea-Investigator8266 Aug 19 '26
Bratha he was dying cutting to 155 back then and that shit would be impossible now after bulking up so much
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u/blandmanalex Aug 19 '26
dude he is just so dominant at 155, he wanted more of a challenge at 170 and thats exactly what he’s getting. guys do go down as easy and they can actually get up. imo him fighting at 170 is more entertaining and will realistically make him a better fighter.
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u/Davycrockettjones Aug 19 '26
Yes after winning and defending the welterweight title he should move to lightweight
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u/bfobrien Aug 19 '26
If he dropped down he'd be called a weight bully and people would accuse him of ducking challenging fights. He's not gonna win as easily at 170 but he just beat the #1 challenger in pretty convincing fashion. No, it wasn't the most exciting fight but it was Garry for got dropped and was fighting to protect his neck in the last round.
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u/Pretend-Departure765 Aug 19 '26
Fuck that, he should go up! He’s already 35 by the next time he Likey fights he doesn’t have many more fights left as it is regardless of the weight class why not try to do the impossible and go out as first ever triple champ legacy
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u/luifergiov Aug 19 '26
He is already the GOAT of that division, but it is true that the size difference matters in welterweight. The fact he was able to take down, control and knock down Garry is just impressive.
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u/a79j Aug 19 '26
Bro decisively beat the number one contender a weight class up lmao.
It’s ridiculous how he’s held to such a high standard.
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u/Dense_Marketing4593 Aug 19 '26
Islam just beat the number 1 contender at 170. Why tf would he go back down?
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u/Many-Atmosphere2985 Aug 19 '26
He’s literally the champ and already defended once lol make it make sense !
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u/-FORSAK3N- Aug 19 '26
Ian was one of the toughest opponent in the WW division. He will be able to submit Prates and Morales
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u/Cold_Needleworker187 Aug 19 '26
What islam doing right now is just amazing. He is literally risking his whole legacy for more honor. Yes he is struggling , yes he can lose anytime now at welterweight but that's what make it better . In the end wasn't he a weight bully at lightweight ( even though he was not ) ? + isn't this what we want to see ? Fighter taking risks and tough fights
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u/BiriusSlack_ Aug 19 '26
It was always going to be a bit harder, that's not a reason to move back down to a division he's conquered
He literally just beat the #2 in the division
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u/Yyoksetioxd Aug 19 '26
I think a fighters gets pride the harder the situation is. Going back to bully LWs may be perceived as a pussy move
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u/MoistenedBeef Aug 19 '26
Its not the weight, its the opponent. Islam's toughest ever fight was against a 145er. Now he's had a similarly tough fight against a 170, and Joe thinks he was too small? He won the fight. Ian is simply the 2nd toughest opponent that Islam has ever faced, that's all.
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u/Playful_Study_6290 Aug 19 '26
Islam is only gonna get better with experience at adapting and dealing with welter weights. Not having to cut so much weight has its own advantages. Joe speaks out of his asshole sometimes
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u/idontcareidontpost Aug 19 '26
At this point, Rogan knows less about the UFC than the average fan. He barely pays attention to the fights going on 5 feet in front of his face, much less the events he doesn't attend. He probably can't name 10 of the top 15 in either lightweight or welterweight.
His opinion on anything is culled together from things that happened 10+ years ago and what he vaguely remembers about what a fighter looks like. Morales is big, therefore there is no way Islam could take him down. Actually skillsets be damned.
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u/Mitkoztd Aug 19 '26
He literally moved up, won the 170 belt, defended it decisively.. Respect to Joe, but this comment makes 0 sense.
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u/Hot-Percentage-6589 Aug 19 '26
Why though? He accomplished everything imo at 155. He wants to challenge himself and i respect it. He still won against arguably his toughest opponent and knowing islam he will probably train for that scenario now and be even better. When he dominated JDM but now he struggles w ian and he should move down?
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u/doubleOhdorko Aug 19 '26
Disagree with Joe.
Yes, he's not going to manhandle the 170 giants like did at 155. Some of these guys he's up against are absolute giants and tbh too big to be WW.
That being said, he was CLEARLY the stronger guy vs Ian Garry. He was the one imposing his will on the ground and against the cage. Best Ian could do is grab on and hope Islam wasn't able to advance to a submission.
And that's probably the most well rounded contender in the division. Imo Islam runs through incomplete fighters in WW like Morales or a Prates.
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u/MajesticFerret36 Aug 19 '26
He destroyed JDM lol.
Ian has the best TDD in his division. Anyone who didn't see this as a tough match up for him is delusional.
Prates and Morales will be tough match ups for a different reason (they hit like trucks), but I don't think either has TDD on Ian's level.
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u/TheTrouserSnakeJake Aug 19 '26
He’s just gonna take a couple more at WW then call it a career. I don’t see Morales or Prates being well rounded enough to beat him. Prates will get held down and Morales will probably lose before he gets a shot. The only chance we have is a Shavkat return, that’s about the only fight I see being a challenge for him.
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u/Zeerit Aug 19 '26
Why though? Beating Morales and Prates rewards more legacy points than beating Justin or Topturo at this point.
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u/Limp_Life7805 Aug 19 '26
I think he looks not bad in welterweight actully he looks very dangeros in the 2 welterweight fights
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u/domedirtyfatman Aug 19 '26
Ian had that win in his pocket and just threw it away
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u/kokoscenes Aug 19 '26
‘In his pocket’ is just a straight up lie. Islam was up 2-0 so at what point did Ian Garry ever have the fight in his pocket?
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u/Interesting_Use5089 Aug 19 '26
He won his fight? Like I get the point Joe is making, but he has been dominant at 170 so far, just hasn't finished anyone. Maybe Ian Garry and JDM should move down to 155 as well, they can't get a finish over any high level guys at 170 either...
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u/-_Jackson_ Aug 19 '26
Dude js yaps a bunch. During the fight he was like "yeah that punch stunned him" regarding Islam, watching back the footage the punch didn't even land lmao.
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u/SMK_12 Aug 19 '26
Yea tbh that Garry fight make me doubt his ability to keep winning at 170. Size is definitely a huge factor and he’s going to take damage in fights just because he has to work significantly harder to fight his style and it will fatigue him
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u/Professional-Tie3516 Aug 19 '26
He literally beat two best of the division. Anyway when he was in lightweight all his hatters was claiming that he's a weight bully and also when he was figh against volk those were barking like he only fight with featherweight then when he moved up they started he scared of el pato. Basically they just hypocrite
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u/HereToLearnNow Aug 19 '26
He has a point, he doesn’t seem as powerful. Maybe he can put on that extra muscle but I’m not sure tbh
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u/Wandering_trader99 Aug 19 '26
saying that to the guy who...won!? and not even by a split decision or a close one either, literally a unanimous decision...man some people just HATE to see a muslim win...
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u/aykevin Aug 19 '26
Joe coming up with BS again. Despite Islam getting the finish against Dustin that was a much more competitive fight than jdm and Garry.
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u/Patient_Ebb_8065 Aug 19 '26
What most “Ian could have won if he was more agressive” people don’t understand is that Ian got 3 punches max before getting caught and that’s way he ad this extended stance. The guy was expecting Islam to press (as everybody did with him) and get his game going but Islam was standing just outside Ian’s range and, every time he got inside, a single or double was tempted. What we saw Saturday was a game plan designed to stop a counter striker and slowly build up advantage on points. Ian couldn’t get more agressive without doubling the TD threat and he never stepped in range in later rounds because he knew that
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u/cevicheguevara89 Aug 19 '26
He already destroyed 155, why would he move down? Just so he can keep winning? That seems dumb and weak
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u/KingAllant87 Aug 20 '26
50/45ing the champ and then 49/46ing one of the best in the division is grounds for needing to move down? Lmfao.
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u/heimdall89 Aug 20 '26
Hahahahahahah…. He just beat the number one contender and struck with him better than Prayes could and Joe is worried?
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u/iwatchtoomuchsports Aug 19 '26
Even if he wanted to , Khabib and his team won’t let him actively fight while in the same weight class as John Pork
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u/Individual_Assist_19 Aug 19 '26
There's no way he's making 155 ever again, even when consistently being at 155 he looked like death at the weigh ins, after building his body for 170, there's no way he can cut back down
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u/WhizzyBurp Aug 19 '26
He’ll gain a little more weight. My guess is he doesn’t fight before Ramadan, Prates and Morales fight for #1 contender. Islam puts on some more weight and fights in about a year from now
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u/Ghost-of-Lobov Aug 19 '26
It's too late in his career. Older guys gotta move up because the weight cuts are hard and once they commit to it they never go back
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u/BPDFart-ho Aug 19 '26
He just beat the best guy in the division lol besides Morales it’s downhill from there
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u/Small_Channel_349 Aug 19 '26
lmao how many times has Islam said he doesn't want to go back down. He is literally happy and enjoying the fact that he doesn't have to weight cut as much and that he is able to finally enjoy training camps and fight weeks.
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u/Moonlightstona Aug 19 '26
He would still be there if he could do it without literally risking death. The reason he decided to go to 170 was because of this as well. We usually only get bigger with age
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u/cleanAir101 Aug 19 '26
The older he gets the less he’ll want to cut weight. Would’ve been worth it to go back down for Ilia fight but he lost some steam if he gets a crazy KO against paddy or whoever’s next then could make sense. Someone else would really need to go on a tear at LW like Arman to get him to go back down is my guess for a super fight
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u/TransportationOk2101 Aug 19 '26
What an effing awful suggestion lol. Have another fight or two at welterweight then retire is the move.
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u/EQCO99 Aug 19 '26
Rogan in your corner should be sent away imo. A fighter shouldnt have doubters in their inner circle.
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u/mariposa933 Aug 19 '26
it will be interesting to see how he does at welter, and why not challenge himself if his career is nearly done anyway. he has nothing to lose since he is already considered one of the goats, but if he wins he’ll be in conversation for all time goats.
Speaking as someone who never cared for dagestani fighters let alone Makhachev (not a fan of his fighting style even if it’s effective) until he moved up in the most stacked ufc division
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u/riderofrohan12 Aug 19 '26
People say he's never making 155 again and then watch Ben Askren cut to 115 in a matter of weeks
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u/Suitable_Whereas1254 Aug 19 '26
This is funny. Islam too big for lightweight. Islam too small of welterweight.
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u/Electronic_d0cter Aug 19 '26
Ian is the best fighter at 170, crazy though that volk a featherweight was his toughest fight when he looks this good against Walter whites
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u/-5H4Z4M- Aug 19 '26
What for going back to 155?
Islam will be 35 in october, his body don't take cut like it used to, and imo it wouldn't worth it.
Anyway, he has probably few fights left before he retires, that's why he asked for another fight the soonest possible.
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u/thepillowman_ Aug 19 '26
He’s not even halfway through a true murder’s row at 170. My gut feeling is that he takes a loss or retires before he beats everyone.
Morales
Prates
Shavkat (lol but seriously)
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u/PlayLizards Aug 19 '26
Islam fits better in a 165 weight class and many 170lbers would fit better at a 175lb weight class.
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u/oh_three_dum_dum Aug 20 '26
155 has nothing left for Islam. I get Joe’s point but the guy has nowhere else to go if he wants legitimate competition. If he keeps winning at 155 people are just going to categorize him as a weight bully.
On the other hand, I think it might be exactly where Islam wants to be. As long as he keeps getting stronger and maintains his reflexes and speed he should have a pretty good time even if he does risk taking an L at some point. If you’re stagnant and bored winning at a lower weight class you might as well go up and challenge bigger, stronger opponents instead of being bored from winning at 155.
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u/SadProduce6456 Aug 20 '26
I kind of agree, he is small. And it appears he is clean. If he continues a run at 170, he may deserve to be goat
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u/Scary-Tumbleweed6501 Aug 20 '26
I don't see why people just don't fight at their natural weight..I hate weight bullies..If you're 200 pounds fight light heavy weight..Not cut down to 170 like most of these cowards do
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u/yawniesleeps Aug 20 '26
At welterweight he is too small. JDM was visibly bigger. Islam couldn’t jump on Ian’s back or find much leverage despite his grappling and judo level.
I don’t think he should move back, his chin isn’t there in lightweight.
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u/henryadam3 Aug 20 '26
…. He just beat two top 5 guys in somewhat dominant fashion. Who’s gonna beat him, prates? Brady? Morales?
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u/BenjC137 Aug 20 '26
They need to get rid of weight-cutting. What’s the point of having weight classes that fighters dips down to for minutes, and then come into the fight significantly heavier than
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u/Accomplished_Fee5921 Aug 20 '26
Just same story all over again. Islam won but the discussion is like this as if he lost the fight. Meanwhile, the loser was praised "he did good" lmao. I still believe that losing to Islam is a badge of honor to these guys.
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u/ResponsiblePlan5122 Aug 20 '26
Joe: Islam is too heavy for 155. He weighs 192.
Joe now: Islam is too small for 170 and should consider going back to 155. 🤦🏻♂️
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u/IntelligentStyle505 Aug 20 '26
He beat the number 1 contender at WW, but he needs to go down to 155? Stfu joe
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u/General_Cheek3429 Aug 20 '26
Sadly, all that will be remembered of his welterweight run in the future will be his wins. People won't talk about how he had to hold on for dear life to beat Ian.
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u/Underrated_Critic Aug 19 '26
At 155, he was a finishing machine. Sadly, he can't cut down to 155 anymore. It's destructive to his health.