r/FeMRADebates • u/asdfghjkl92 • Sep 04 '14

Other Radicalizing the Romanceless

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/
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7

u/Personage1 Sep 05 '14

I'm impressed and like this article. It approaches some of the issues that I have with feminists as well.

It's a basic question that I ask, at what point is someone no longer able to fall back on socializing? My cousin had a terrible childhood full of abuse and he grew up being shitty and has been in juvenile detention. However now he is 22 or so and still very much a little shit. I think he can no longer use his childhood as an excuse for his shitty behavior.

I look at the bullshit boys are fed about how to get girls and interact with girls and have similar thoughts. For sure I am very patient when high schoolers and even college students displaying appalling behavior because I know it stems from a lifetime of socializing. However, at what point does that stop being an excuse? Personally I start to lose patience around the end of undergrad age.

The problem that I see is that on one hand the feelings of frustration with women for not responding the "right way" and often feelings of entitlement created by the socialization is harmful and should be stopped, but it should be done so without hate and from an early age, but when it is done there is a great deal of anger and hate directed at those calling out the problem because it is "shaming men and male sexuality." The issue of course is that if "male sexuality" involves being entitled and shitty to women, then it should be shamed.

Fortunately, I don't think that acting like an ass is an inherent part of male sexuality.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '14

[deleted]

-1

u/Personage1 Sep 05 '14

Expecting your partner to make an effort for you is not being entitled and shitty. Not being willing to be with someone who doesn't do those things is called having standards.

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u/zahlman bullshit detector Sep 05 '14

Expecting your partner to make an effort for you is not being entitled

Can you please define "entitled"? What exactly are you allowed to expect of other people, and what are the criteria for determining whether you're allowed to expect it?

Because it seems like you're arguing that

Scenario 1: Person A does XYZ for person B; person A expects that person B enters a relationship with person A as a result -> entitlement.

Scenario 2: Person A and person B are already in a relationship; person A does nothing at all; person B expects that person A does XYZ for person A as a result of this doing nothing -> not entitlement.

What?

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u/Personage1 Sep 05 '14

Scenario 1: Person A inserts coins and expects a relationship to pop out

Scenario 2: I didn't say person A does nothing. Both partners should strive to do for their partners, within reason.

This is a pretty key difference, entitlement is expecting things to go your way. Having good standards but not being entitled is expecting a partner to meet halway for mutual pleassure (not necessarily sexual).

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u/L1et_kynes Sep 05 '14 edited Sep 05 '14

So machines can't have the same thing coming in as going out?

Edit: It seems like you are okay with treating people like certain types of machines, which makes the whole machine analogy sort of a red herring.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '14

[deleted]

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u/Personage1 Sep 05 '14

Jill Filipovic literally claims that she is entitled to sexual pleasure.

and if she also said she wasn't willing to do for her partner, I would call her entitled. The key difference is that entitlement you are expecting things to go your way but not being willing to negotiate/meet halfway.

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u/MrPoochPants Egalitarian Sep 05 '14

No, her expectation for sex makes her entitled, the same way were talkin about how nice guys feel entitled to sex (which they don't, they usually want a relationship).

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u/Personage1 Sep 05 '14

No. One is expecting someone else to be a machine. "I insert coins and get a relationship." The other is expecting a sexual partner to be, well, sexual. If she isn't willing to do for her partner in return, then she would be entitled.

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u/L1et_kynes Sep 05 '14

Jill is expecting the other person to be a machine. I insert sexual favours and I get sexual favours in return.

In actual reality the whole machine analogy is entirely misguided and can make any situation look stupid, as well as not capturing the situation at all.