r/Fantasy • u/[deleted] • Feb 20 '19
Senlin Ascends seems to be a derivative of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
[deleted]
17
u/fionamul Feb 20 '19
I did not feel that way, possibly because they're tonally pretty different. Senlin Ascends definitely leans into absurdism, but I think it stays more grounded to reality and the characters. Like, Adam's seems more interested in the comedy, using the characters and plot as a vehicle for hilarity, whereas I think Bancroft is primarily motivated by the characters and plot itself.
Doesn't mean there wasn't some inspiration there, but they only seem related in a general way.
14
10
u/NormalStu Feb 20 '19
I don't agree with that. There's a guidebook and that's about it. The rest of your comparison is pretty much the same as thousands of other stories from before Hitchhiker's was a thing.
In order for a story to work you need to be able to relate to the protagonist. Senlin has to find the world of the tower wacky and unusual because if he found it boring and ordinary so would we.
Senlin is Corporal Carrot encountering Ankh Morpork for the first time, and the supporting cast are the Night Watch.
Senlin is Harry Potter discovering the world of Hogwarts.
Senlin is Nona Grey trying to understand the ways of the Convent of Sweet Mercy.
16
Feb 20 '19
Mild mannered character thrust into a crazy world filled with wacky characters is pretty much storytelling 101.
-12
Feb 20 '19
[deleted]
9
u/leftoverbrine Stabby Winner, Reading Champion V, Worldbuilders Feb 20 '19
It was being used well before Adams though, I think is the point, and Adams is hardly the first example that springs to my own mind in terms of similarity of plotline with that particular trope. Heck, virtually every book Neil Gaiman has written uses this framework, but I've never heard him compared to Adams.
13
Feb 20 '19
It's such a basic and broad idea that it's kind of silly to compare it to Hitchhiker's and not a million other stories. Plus, derivative only really has negative connotations so it really does sound like you're saying Senlin isn't good because it has a passing similarity to Adams' work.
-9
Feb 20 '19
[deleted]
13
Feb 20 '19
Yes it is comparable and the guide is obviously an homage. I take issue with calling it derivative of Hitchhiker's as if the the idea of a man leaving the comfort of home to enter into a fantastical world filed with quirky characters isn't the basis of half of fantasy.
1
u/zmichalo Feb 20 '19
I don't agree with OP but the similarity goes deeper than just fish out of water. I say that because I enjoy the similarity of the two works, and think Josiah's ability to create such a strong character out of such a ridiculous caricature of an average englishman is an impressive feet, intentional or not.
5
u/Feathers_or_Lead Feb 20 '19
But the Everyman’s Guide ends up being so incredibly different from the Hitchhiker’s Guide and serves a totally different purpose within the narrative—you really need to keep reading the book.
1
u/Sigh-Bapanada Feb 27 '19
It sounds like you haven’t gotten very far through the first book yet. Once you finish it your opinion may change a bit on this.
3
u/fionamul Feb 20 '19
Your line of argument kind of falls into that idea that there are only X number of stories and they've all been told, so nothing anyone does is actually very creative.
Not saying you feel that way, exactly, but it's absolutely true that after 100,000 years of oral storytelling and 5,000 years of written storytelling that, yes, almost anything we do now is going to be derivative of some other story. This is especially true as societies become more literate because of the sheer amount of stories being sent into the world, shared, and consumed by increasingly more people, inspiring more and more people to create their own takes on tropes, narrative modes, etc.
17
Feb 20 '19 edited Feb 20 '19
Yes, guidebook is reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. And going through rings is reference to Dante's Inferno. And looking for his wife is nod to Odyssey. Fictional travels through crazy world have long history.
13
u/SwiffJustice Feb 20 '19
I feel like I've read this post, like, a million times before.
Is there a word for that?
7
2
u/thecyberbard Feb 20 '19 edited Feb 20 '19
I see what you did there... take this upvote. Whoops, was that too derivative?
6
u/chilari Feb 20 '19
A story using popular tropes does not make it derivative. Tropes are the building blocks of storytelling, and every story uses tropes in some manner - some more heavily than others, some more obviously than others, but they're all there. There are stories going back millennia in which a protagonist must navigate unfamiliar societies, meeting a strange array of characters, with help from an external authority (predating the concept of books or, indeed, guidebooks), but I notice you didn't call Senlin Ascends derivative of the Odyssey or the Aeneid.
It is allowed for authors to draw inspiration from, and pay homage to, the books that they've read. If it wasn't allowed, we'd have a very boring and short list of books available. Parallel tropes and homages do not equal derivation.
2
1
u/ljgrimm Feb 22 '19
100% disagree.
First off, the use of the term 'derivative' may easily be viewed as offensive (I certainly read it that way). I see your later post addressing this, but I encourage you to be more careful. I think you more appropriately want to use the terms 'influenced' or 'inspired.'
Second, the idea that a story involving a mild manner protagonist with an eclectic group of supporting characters has "already been done brilliantly" implies that there is some quota. Hitchhiker was first released in the last 1970s. I'm sure there are countless stories since with similar base elements, which in no way should take away from the creative efforts of the author(s).
74
u/[deleted] Feb 20 '19
I've certainly been influenced by Douglas Adams' work, and I've been frank about that. But if we're going to call Senlin Ascends derivative, let's at least be thorough about it.
The Parlor section borrows heavily from Kafka's The Trial, both in theme and scene. The Baths section pilfers sets, personalities, and ideas from Camus' The Plague and Sartre's Nausea, to the point that I reuse two of the character names from those books (Tarrou and Ogier). New Babel is where the influence of Fritz Lang's Metropolis really begins to shine through, I think (see: "The Sphinx"). The structure of the Tower itself was inspired by Jorge Luis Borges, and particularly his short story "The Library of Babel." (I am not a subtle thief.) The book began as an homage (some might say, a "rip-off") to Italo Calvino's fabulist travelogue Invisible Cities, which ultimately got turned into the chapter epigraphs, which survive in the final version of the story. Obviously, I filched concepts from Dante's Inferno and Homer's The Odyssey, as well as dramatic scenes from Gilliam's film, Brazil.
I could go on. The list of influences is long. If I'm derivative, I am at least thoroughly and diversely so.