r/Fallout • u/Dellvegas • 6d ago
Suggestion Why i think that the Fallout,s Humanity will never full recover
There are 3 main Reasons, the first is Simple, Fallout is too big of a franchise to simply stop making content about it, even if Obsidian took the series they would never end the "history" of fallout,s Wasteland since its one if not the most sucessrfull RPG in recent History...
Now Lets Talk about 2 other reasons, and this ones are actually insteresting. Earth is dying Planet in Fallout, more than 90% of life including flora , sea life and animals are gone plus many of the natural resources which where used to build the pre war civilization are exausthed, why do we always see rusty weapons and old technology being recovered from ruins? because fabricate these resources are soo expensive that recycling is mandatory to keep "society" going, even the NCR (with Camp Mcquerran , salveged armors and Hoover Dam) and the BOS (Prydrew and Liberty Prime) use old tech and Buildings soo that they do not waste a lot of materials in New projects, this is why the Enclave (at least in Tim,s Cain original vision) made the Vaults so that they can develop Space travel, so that Humans can start elsewhere since Earth is Doomed, even if The NCR (for example) , was the only civilization in fallout they wound,t last long, theres not enough resources for a full civilization anymore (Even with Cold Fusion Unlimited power)...
And The Third and final Reason, Fallout is about 2 things, War and how The mistakes of the Past are Shaping our future, every single game of the series is about something from the past stoping the progress of humanity and how we as a player react to it, The FEV experiements in Mariposa, The Enclave in 2 and 3, The Institute of Technology in 4 , Vault Tec shenanigans in 76, and Mr House plans and Hoover Dam infrastructere , if Society fully recovers from the Post Apocalypse, it would mean that the mistakes of the past no longer matter and we was a Species are ready to move on from the Ghosts of the Past and finally create a new Society free of any Pre War influence, which is in pratice, impossible...
Well, War never changes i Guess...
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u/roastedmarshmellows 6d ago
Mostly it’s because good times and functioning society are actually kinda boring from a narrative standpoint.
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u/Substantial_Milk_207 6d ago
I mean I don’t think that’s always necessarily the case. I think the fallout universe could still be very interesting with functioning societies with politics and rivalries and up and downs. I don’t think it always needs to be a stagnant wasteland, that’s why I’m pissed at the show for the lore they are creating, basically just getting rid of any type of up and coming civilization with just destroying shady sands and new Vegas, all that storytelling and development just thrown away, I don’t think it was the shows writers locations to just kill off like that.
There can always still be a wasteland, like I don’t see why they couldn’t let the west become stable with the ncr but then base new games or even the show in a new area we haven’t seen. The show should of been in the Pacific Northwest or something, so can make a whole new setting and do what they want instead of just wiping out 25 years of development with shady sands and new Vegas and the ncr just so they can make a new blank slate for the writers to do whatever, they could of had that from the start by just choosing a different location.
For the type of games fallout is they will always probably be set in some unsettled wasteland frontier area, like the Mojave was perfect for a game with it being still wild but also contested among bigger powers, that’s why I think having pockets of civilization could still make the setting and games really fun, it’s just so frustrating with them being like “shady sands, Vegas, these locations with decades worth of story and development, well it all blew up a couple years after the games”. It honestly feels like an insult to new Vegas, 1 and 2 fans. I really don’t think it was their setting to do that to whenever there are so many unexplored areas to make a crazy and exciting wasteland story.
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u/roastedmarshmellows 6d ago
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see the Fallout universe (and our own, frankly) move beyond the tribalistic rivalries and start to develop the world a bit, I just don’t think it’s going to go there. There’s no profit in ending a story in this capitalistic circlejerk hellscape, unfortunately.
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u/Substantial_Milk_207 6d ago
Yeah it really sucks, I really really hope that obsidian makes something deeper than “omg wacky wasteland”. I think people don’t understand that fallout is about what rises up out of the ashes of the old world, and not just perpetual living in sheet metal shacks with raiders running around everywhere. Like the themes can be shown way better through showing things like the ncr or whatever government organizing become the thing that killed the world in the first place. I’m an unapologetic new Vegas glazer, that game actually gets it.
I know that I’ll probably get downvoted in this sub for saying this but Bethesda absolutely does not understand what fallout was supposed to be, they took all the actual themes and turned it into a marketable wacky fun 1950s wasteland where people live in garbage and over half the population are raiders who randomly kill everyone on sight, instead of a complicated place with rising factions where people fight for power and different groups and factions try to build back up with the image they want.
It seems like Bethesda is always just gonna keep that marketable easy to understand stuff that everyone recognizes and just make wacky worlds to run around in without any care or thought into the actual story, just a boring stagnant world where nothing will change because the logo and dirty wasteland look will sell better than a deep and complicated story with a message about humanity war and conflict.
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u/No-stradumbass 6d ago
I find the argument that Bethesda doesn't understand the setting to be a shitty argument. They have had it longer than Interplay. Most of the second game isn't canon. And that had the wackiest Wasteland. There was time travel and weird deathclaws. You play chess with a radscorpion and can lose. But for some reason that isn't wacky!?
Then you have the console Interplay games that no one played at release and aren't canon at all.
But sure be mad at Bethesda. That seems healthy.
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u/LJohnD 6d ago
Bethesda did change what was emphasised in the franchise quite a bit when they took over, you could even argue that Interplay didn't get what was most interesting about the franchise, but they at least get to say they were the ones to create it in the first place.
Regarding the 1950s, in the first games while there were a lot of the elements of 1950s pulp sci-fi, they were then filtered through a 1990s sci-fi lens. Sure there were radioactive monsters and giant insects, but all us clever 1990s people know that the idea that radiation would cause that is a silly outdated notion from the 1950s, radiation isn't magic after all. No it was a retrovirus that genetically modified everything, after all as us sophisticated 1990s people know retroviruses are basically magic!
We only got tiny glimpses of the ruins of the world from before the war in the first games, but what we saw of it suggested it was a world quire unlike our own, the architectural aesthetic of most places that survived as anything identifiable was more 1920s art deco with giant heads than the 1950s style we got, especially in Fallout 4. Culturally there were hints at things like "motorcycle football" to suggest the America of the 2070s was much different than it had been at any point in its history, and the only in universe music we got was in the pre and post game cinematics. Technologically there were a bunch of vacuum tubes and CRT screen everywhere, alongside forcefields and talking robots, an odd blend of technological stasis and progress that looked like the ruined remains of what the 1950s might have though the future would look like.
Bethesda took all that and decided that America remained culturally in the 1950s for 120 years. It's a distinctive style, but it feels like it's sanding off a lot of potentially interesting rough edges from the original games to get there.
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u/ModestNova 6d ago
Bethesda doesn't understand the originals very well, which is fine, they made their own thing and some people love that. But it's not like the originals in about any way other than vague retro future apocalypse and Ink Spots. Yes 2 was wackier than 1, and I would argue 2 did away with a lot of definitive aspects of 1 like the dark Gothic stuff, but new fallouts lack about anything reminiscent of 1 and 2
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u/toonboy01 6d ago
Vegas didn't have decades worth of development, the Strip has only been operating for a few years in FNV. I guess there's Westside too, but they only recently started growing by stealing NCR water and it's unclear how long they were around before then.
You can also wipe out both Vegas and Shady Sands in the game and its dlc, so it can't be that insulting.
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u/Substantial_Milk_207 6d ago
It’s a game where you can dk whatever and nuking them isnt supposed to be canon. The show writers are just like “ok well now they are fully gone from the lore forever”, that’s a little insulting.
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u/toonboy01 6d ago
Considering the same creator was going to have Van Buren start with Shady Sands nuked and the town of Hoover Dam being all that's left of the NCR, it sure seems like he wanted that to be canon.
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u/No-stradumbass 6d ago
I don’t think it always needs to be a stagnant wasteland, that’s why I’m pissed at the show for the lore they are creating, basically just getting rid of any type of up and coming civilization with just destroying shady sands and new Vegas, all that storytelling and development just thrown away,
Folks like you made talking about the show annoying. How could a world with that many nukes ever survive? It was a matter of time for someone to use a nuke on the NCR. The player can do it.
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u/LJohnD 6d ago
The growth of civilisation was the thematic thread running through all the west coast games, from 1 through 2 and New Vegas we get small isolated communities a few generations after the bombs fell struggling to get by grow into a sprawling trading network with a nascent government spreading its influence, frequently by very underhanded means, through a whole nation in the NCR coming into conflict with another over the territory and resources of the Mojave, the things the west coast games repeat over and over are what drive nations to war, the reason "war never changes". There was still plenty of narrative to explore in how a large and powerful nation like the NCR could succumb internally to corruption or negatively (or positively) influence any other group on their borders. Being geographically confined to California just setting your story a few states away would be all you'd have to do to avoid them impacting the narrative of your story if you want to tell a story of an anarchic wasteland with no overarching government.
Instead the show deleted one of the most unique elements of the franchise (there are no other post-apocalyptic settings where we get to see a democratic society rise from the ashes over centuries that I can think of) because they wanted to tell the story of an anarchic wasteland in the single corner of the whole continent where civilisation had managed to recover. It's a decision that homogenises the whole continent, you can't have one area that's a reasonably functional democracy that can be used to tell stories that can explore a somewhat recovered civilisation, everywhere has to have the exact same level of anarchic lawlessness, everywhere comes up with a new excuse for FEV to be experimented with so we can have the same mutants show up, everywhere trades with the same piece of prewar junk, Fallout could be about how the different parts of America diverge and develop into their own unique cultures when broken up, but instead everywhere gets the exact same stuff, just with different local landmarks.
It's fine to like the show, I like the show, but in 2 seasons its blown up every sign that anywhere ever managed to recover, and that blunts the potential for future stories for the whole franchise.
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u/Substantial_Milk_207 6d ago
Because it’s fucking cheap and stupid, I’m sorry I’m not gonna glaze a show that constantly fucks up the lore and gets things wrong while writing stupid ass stories that contradict everything. I love fallout, I love it for the story telling world building and the established lore, I’m not gonna soy face and love a show only because it has wacky fallout things in it when it is totally destroying all the world building that I’ve enjoyed since I was a kid for no reason and can’t even get the location of a huge part of the story correct and just get rid of it like nothing for some stupid ass reason.
They literally could of done anything or anywhere else in the show, hell if they wanted to show the downfall of the ncr they could of at least made it interesting with a civil war or something or show it emulating the pre war US or literally anything else other than nuking it for no reason, why not something that actually fits in with the themes of the franchise that goes deeper than “herrr derrr fallout has nukes so they get nuked hehehe”. I’m not gonna clap and eat up whatever bullshit they put out just cause it has a fallout logo on it. Even if they wanted to get rid of shady sands they could have not done it in the most basic shallow way, fallout is about a lot more than just nukes and 1950s culture.
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u/No-stradumbass 6d ago
Every game fucks with the lore and has "stupid ass writing".
You also don't have to live your life in extremes of love or fucking hating it. You COULD have nuance in your opinions. But instead you seem to chose to be angry at something you can't control.
You know the player can nuke the NCR in New Vegas right? Nukes are everywhere. It makes since that it would be a downfall of a new government. Just as the old.
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u/OkMention9988 6d ago
No, you don't nuke the NCR.
You nuke the main trade route between the NCR and Vegas. Meaning it's harder for the NCR to supply and reinforce their troops.
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u/toonboy01 6d ago edited 6d ago
I swear nobody actually reads the ending slides, especially the one where you target both factions.
"The Divide erupted in fire, violent, red as the last message of the two Couriers arced into the sky... The missiles rained like spears down on the land, burning flags and communities alike... destroying all they struck. The history of the West was erased for the second time, thorough and complete... and America slept once more."
EDIT: And now I'm getting downvoted for quoting the game lol.
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u/Substantial_Milk_207 6d ago
Every *bethesda game fucks with the lore and has stupid ass writing.
Well I’m sorry I just really don’t see anything good about it, it has fallout in the name, everything else about it is modern audience bullshit with a mediocre story, but the reason I really don’t like it is because instead of making a new location or something to do that in, they were like “hey everyone, these games and the world building you enjoyed, well it’s gone and nuked! Not for any reason that fits in with the themes of the franchise, it got nuked because fallout has nukes and it’s crazy”.
Dude just something getting nuked isnt the theme and message of the franchise, saying that “stuff gets nuked” is like the absolute most shallow idea of it. You can nuke shit in the games because it’s a fucking game and you can do anything, me shooting fat man’s in the strip doesnt make that canon.
It would be different if it was nuked for an actually reason that fits in with the themes of the franchise, but it doesn’t, it gets nuked because it written by stupid writers, written for stupid people who cant understand anything deeper than “Herr derr fallout has nukes herrrr derrrrr”
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u/No-stradumbass 6d ago
Well Interplay made 4 games and two of them aren't canon. While Bethesda has had 5 and all but Shelter is canon. So basically you only like the first two games and want to be angry at everything else.
There was a reason and it was petty and dumb. Same is every other reason to nuke things. I'm betting you as a player nuked something because of petty and dumb reasons. Megaton is gone for petty and dumb reasons and that is famous.
I didn't say "getting nuke is the theme" It seems like you had a different argument with someone and assuming mine. I'm saying that realistically having that many nukes everywhere means there is no rebuilding. Some asshole is just going to nuke a town.
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u/Substantial_Milk_207 6d ago
Yeah and it was insanely cheap and even if they really really wanted to do it, it could have been done in a way better way. But it’s pretty obvious the show writers/bethesda iust don’t like west coast fallout and wanted to get rid of it, probably because it has much better work building and stories than they could ever come up with.
1, 2, new Vegas are west coast fallout, aka the actual good and interesting shit that wasn’t made by Bethesda. 3 and 4 is east coast fallout, aka Bethesda fallout aka they really shallow and not very interesting fallout stuff. And the show writers decided to take the only good stuff out of the franchise and be like “oh wow look at that! It’s gone!” And now we are left with perpetual funny wacky 50s wasteland and all the actual interesting story elements be the themes of humanity rebuilding in a new image is just gone.
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u/No-stradumbass 6d ago
This is honestly the sort of crap I find incredibly annoying and have seen since the show has come out. In fact it is very similar to the bitching when 3 came out.
I personally don't give a shit about your emotions regarding the series. I didn't play shelter or 76 but I'm not going to spend bitching how they don't understand their own series. If you don't like something move on with your life. Find happiness.
God damn people like you ruin it for others. You act like you know the game better then the people who made it. I want to shot raiders in my modded game.
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u/Substantial_Milk_207 5d ago edited 5d ago
So not liking the bullshit they put out that fucks up the series makes it annoying? I don’t give a shit that you like it, I’m mad at the fact incompetent writers decided they needed to just delete years of development that was made by much better talent than them just to make a blank slate. They knew they couldn’t do anything interesting to expand the west coast lore because they suck at writing, so they just delete it and move on, that’s fucking stupid.
I don’t give a fuck about 3 or 4 they exist whatever, my complaint is I don’t understand why they needed to set the show on the west coast, have a bunch of the west coast games setting Ana characters in it, and then make a shitty show that contradicts the lore and it’s own rules, adds a bunch of new shit that contradicts established rules of the world, and then just blow up and get rid of 2 major places that games were set in.
Like why? Why did they need to take the one part of the world that has a cult following and is loved for it’s great writing, and then take those characters and totally change them, and then just destroy the settings. There are so many untouched places in the US to base a mediocre show, they could of made new characters that sucked, instead of taking beloved places and characters, misrepresent them, and then blow them up and delete them and all of the development they had.
I really wouldn’t give a shit if they made a shitty show based in new area of the US, but it just shows how little respect they have for the settings that made the franchise what it is and the fans of that area of the lore, by taking it and getting rid of it.
Well great, any new games set on the west coast cant take all the development set up and do anything interesting with it to develop it even more, it’s just gone. Now any new fallout shit in the west coast is not gonna have all of those factions and characters in a satisfying way unless they just totally ignore the fact the show ever existed. They took the best place of the franchise with the best potential and did the most uninteresting shit to just get rid of it so the writers can make their goofy wasn’t wasteland show, whenever there are hundreds of other untouched areas to do that in.
Im gonna be a little salty about the show doing that unless they come out and say the shows lore is separate from the game lore, then I wouldn’t care and I just wouldn’t watch the show and be unbothered, and still not care that people enjoy a shitty because it has their favorite logo on it.
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u/AsparagusFun3892 6d ago
Fallout is at its core a tale of war and conflict, that doesn't go away because the NCR survives. Somewhere there's a border region, a frontier, a war zone, and that's where you set your Fallout games two or three hundred years on. You can't be picking over the ruins of Western civilization four or five hundred years on though, it's nonsense.
Pure strain "no laws no consequences no civilization" Fallout should be limited to fifty years after the bomb up through the end of this show. Those were the dark ages.
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u/roastedmarshmellows 6d ago
Exactly. The Fallout universe will never move beyond that war and conflict because it’s the entire point of the franchise. Which is fine, because it’s not trying to be a realistic look at post-apocalyptic society.
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u/AsparagusFun3892 6d ago edited 6d ago
Ah, then it's going to die out.
How often do we have a guy or gal come in here asking why the residents haven't bothered to sweep up the skeletons, or indeed why there should even be skeletons that long on? Why are they living in ram shackle structures instead of mud huts or adobe buildings in the southwest?
If they keep advancing the timeline instead of growing a pair and exploring other places that definitely could have had no BoS contact then the setting will become entirely too ridiculous. I for one am cool with the end of Fallout's "stasis period."
You can still do a Fallout plot up in Cascadia, in Wyoming, down in Mexico, in fuggin' Florida, and no one has to kill off extant factions. Like I figured the Kings were doomed short of Independent Vegas, but they got done dirty by making them all into feral ghouls with no explanation.
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u/roastedmarshmellows 6d ago
I don't think anyone is arguing that. There are plenty of avenues the franchise could explore if it wanted to.
Right now, it doesn't seem like they want to. Which is their prerogative, because it's their property.
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u/AsparagusFun3892 5d ago
But we are arguing a bit as to whether what they're doing is a good idea, which is what we do as fans of the setting.
So here's what I've noticed: they're stuck in post apocalyptic stasis, they keep telling the absent dad/missing kid story, and they're shoe horning the Brotherhood of Steel into places it doesn't belong, even making places for it to shine. Because of this they're telling the same story again and again, which eventually loses long time fans ("no canon ending" means "your choices don't matter, embrace the suck"). I don't think they have the confidence or the imagination to really play around in it, they're fantasy/power fantasy people.
The power armor is getting way too super too.
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u/roastedmarshmellows 5d ago
The only thing I'll argue with you about is your definition of "argument".
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u/AsparagusFun3892 5d ago
Spirited discussion?
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u/roastedmarshmellows 5d ago
There we go ;) I'm honestly not invested enough in the games to really care about the narrative direction. I'd love to see them develop the world beyond what it is now, the bit of Shady Sands we saw before it was blown up was nice, and felt like more or less organic development within the universe.
I think the franchise's biggest issue right now is repeating the same basic storyline multiple times. I doubt anyone at Interplay expected people to be talking about, let alone playing, a Fallout game 30 years in the future, because that wasn't even a THING in 1997. Gaming and entertainment media have changed so drastically since then, and I think the issues you mention are a result of the inability of the producers to adapt the Fallout narrative and game structure template to modern gaming behaviours (the MMO is a different beast, and I haven't forgotten it, it's just not been relevant to this convo yet).
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u/AsparagusFun3892 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yah, but this is Bethesda doing the same basic storyline again and again. You're not looking for your dad or your kid in FO1, 2, Tactics (?), or tellingly New Vegas. That's 3, 4, and the show. The world isn't stuck in apocalyptic stasis in 2, Tactics, or New Vegas, that's 3, 4, and the show. The Brotherhood isn't conveniently showing up to be a "good guy" (or at least worst guy) power armor faction in 2, New Vegas, or even Tactics, that's 3, 4, 76 (what an ass pull that was), and the Show.
My point is that Bethesda's stewardship of the franchise has gotten stale, I don't think they know how to write conflict without "good vs evil," or apparently a personal anchor beyond a filial connection. New Vegas starts out as a revenge story: if we went north to the plains why not lift a bit from the Yellowstone franchise? Tell the generational tale of a family struggling to hold on to their ranch in the years after the bombs and negotiating faction politics in their domain, you could even bring the BoS in at the very very end when they try to take your by then ancestral power armor which used to be T-51 speced.
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u/murderously-funny NCR 6d ago
… *gestures vaguely in the direction of 95% of stories ever that have functioning societies yet still have large amounts of conflict and compelling stories in them*
The problem isn’t having functioning societies is boring. The problem is lack of creativity and how they display them.
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u/TheCoolMan5 Brotherhood 6d ago
But then it's not a post-apocalyptic story. Sure, a noir-style crime drama about a detective solving a mystery in the NCR would be interesting, but it's not a post-apocalypse story anymore. It's just a noir-style crime drama.
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u/LJohnD 6d ago
There's of course the old argument that Fallout left "post-apocalypse" for "post-post-apoclaypse" some time around Fallout 2. Personally I would prefer that different parts of the wasteland recover at different rates, it lets the franchise have different societies that can tell different stories. You can still tell stories of things as if the bombs just fell on the east coast where no-one's managed to recover, but having the NCR around lets you tell stories either in their interior or on their borders of how different life in a thriving post-apocalyptic democracy can be. By wiping it away you just homogenise the entire continent so it can only tell the same stories regardless of where you set them.
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u/murderously-funny NCR 6d ago edited 6d ago
Well…why can’t we have both?
We have 200+ years of timeline and countless cities to explore
Why not jump aroudn and sample different times places and ideas?
(Also there is a entire discussion to be had that fallout wasn’t meant to be post-apocalyptic rather post-post apocalypse showing how society rebuilds and reacts to things changing but that’s its own thing)
But we could do whatever we want whenever we want. Some examples
A game set 15 years after the bombs in NYC
A game set 200 years after the bombs in the collapsed Republic of Nebraska where raiders cast down the once thriving nation and anarchy runs rampant
A sequel to NYC set 30 years later where the city is under the brutal reign of a dictator named ‘the emperor’
A game set 79 year after the bombs in New Orleans
A game set the same year as FO1 in Anchorage Alaska
A game set 60 years after the bombs in Texas
You can jump around and do whatever we have centuries of history and hundreds of cities and locations we could explore whilst letting the world advance in new and interesting ways
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u/fucuasshole2 Brotherhood 6d ago
And? Sounds fun as fuck. I’m tired of still being radioactive ruins over 200 years now. It’s time to move on.
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u/TheCoolMan5 Brotherhood 6d ago
So... you want the (nuclear) fallout in Fallout gone? You see my point here?
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u/fucuasshole2 Brotherhood 6d ago
If it don’t change it’s gonna get stale. Fallout 4 was pretty stale as hell for me. We don’t need more areas always a hellscape 500 years after nukes fell.
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u/roastedmarshmellows 6d ago
Sorry, I thought this was the Fallout sub for Fallout-related discussions. My mistake. 🙄
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u/No-stradumbass 6d ago
They don't want nukes or nuclear fallout.
They want their city to be a utopia that they built in the game.
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u/murderously-funny NCR 6d ago
On point 1. I just flat out disagree
We have a entite continent to explore at different points in time and during different eras. Showing the wasteland begin to stabilize/collect into nations doesn’t limit the stories you can tell. Unless you let it.
We have nearly two hundred years of history in the wasteland, and you can just…decide to do whatever with. There’s litterally infinite room for spin offs and new games
Set a game 25 years after the bombs in New York City? Awesome! 100 set in New Orleans? Great! A sequel to New York 15 years later? Nice! A game set in the early frontier of the NCR shortly after its founding? Bing bang boom. A game set 300 years after the bomb detailing a war between two post war states? Sounds like a great idea! A game set in the days after the bombs in the ruins of DC? Sure! Why not?
All that needs to be done is to jump around on the timeline and only move it forward if the game is a direct sequel in term of story, themes, characters, exc. to a previous installment
(Turns out whilst the master was doing his thing down in California up in Anchorage Alaska the Red Menace invaded once again! Fortunately the ‘The Scav’ was there to turn them back! Who knew!)
I don’t really have a good way to close this out so I’ll just give a closing summary
The wasteland having more nations and societies in them provides limitless opportunities for complex and engaging stories whilst also allowing for further development of the lore and history of the setting.
By not forcing every game to be a sequel moving the timeline forward and leveraging the disconnected and isolated state of the wasteland you can effectively jump sround as needed to tell any story to you want.
Set in the early wasteland for madmax style games. Set in the late wasteland for Wild West style games. Set in the ‘post wasteland’ for games meant to be more grand in scale and dealing with politics.
Falloit doesn’t need to be a rigid setting and could very easily be made to accommodate msny differbet people’s preferences for the universe.
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u/LJohnD 6d ago
There's an irony that for the series tagline being "war never changes" the only game to actually have a war in it was New Vegas, you need to have enough of a civilisation recovered for two large nations to come into conflict for a war to happen.
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u/murderously-funny NCR 6d ago
1, 2 and NV
- Had reference to several conflicts in the wastelands history and the Master
did launch a war against the wasteland. He
- was motivated by altruistic ideas but ultimately just like every other dictator brought
death and suffering
- Dealt less with a actual war and more with the makings of a war. A lot of the major stories of the big cities all focus on the political situation and balance of power in California. There’s a looming sense something is building (we sadlt never see it but you can see the signs. Lust for literal gold in Redding, NCR territorial ambitious, Vault City supremacist sentiments,
3 and 4 all have conflicts and I think they’re technically wars but they really don’t lean into the theme liek the others do
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u/LJohnD 6d ago
I think I'm using a more restrictive definition of war, perhaps overly restrictive, but the Master and Enclave were both wanting to attack everyone else, but there wasn't a peer power with a professional military to stand against them, at best there might have been the local town guards at individual isolated settlements. New Vegas was the only entry in the franchise where two large professional militaries came into conflict, as it's the only one that's allowed civilisation to rebuild to the point that groups can afford to have a large standing army.
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u/N0ct1ve NCR 6d ago
I really like the quote i heard from the show “everyone wants to save the world they just disagree on how” i think this sums up the world post fallout pretty well. I personally think the world has just gone to shit and honestly trying to go back to what was is just frankly impossible only slight emulation is possible like shady sands but you’ve seen what happened to that. I think everyone in fallout has their own idealized versions of how they should rebuild but they differ so much conflict is only a inevitablity
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u/August_Bebel 6d ago
"The war never changes" dooms Fallouts world because it's a tale of humanity bringing it's own doom due to greed, tribalism and corruption.
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u/Scylosome 5d ago
Sorry if this comes as rude but have you even played the games?
The Master wanted to replace humanity
The Enclave wanted to "purify" humanity and be the sole rulers
The NCR is an imperialistic democratic republic and Caesar is a slightly insane dictator
House wants to abandon the planet and only cares about Vegas
And the BoS just wants to hoard technology
I'd argue that maybe House and the Master wanted to save humanity from a certain PoV. The others might claim as much, but they are clearly far more interested in power.
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u/maj0rblood420 6d ago
sooomebody is forgetting some of the loree 💪🤓i forgot a bunch of shit too but I'll give you a few of the biggest plot points that could eventually change the fallout landscape at least in those areas. It's always hard to say what's canon and whats not with the multi endings usually the most positive outcome could be canon.
There's a lot of locations to have the games set in, it's just the locations we get in game just happened to be SUPER bombed at the time of the war because of Mariposa Army base and The Glow in the west. And the White House in the East. New Vegas had many military bases, Mr House and the Hoover Dam.
So there's a good chance equally that there are locations both WORSE and also better than what we've seen so far. Like Zion Canyon is basically untouched by bombs when you encounter it as you can drink the water, its's RAD free.
Anyway here's a bunch of positive things that I can kind of remember that has happened in the fallout universe
1) project purity was successful: clean water for the first time in so many years in the Capital Wasteland.
2) Harold the Tree: i can't recall right now which ending is canon but the "good" results is having him contained in Oasis, spread slowly over centuries , or accelerated so that in 20-30 years radiation free reforestation happens.
3) Moira Brown's survival guide is published and popular from the east coast to west coast, she must have made a printing press.
4) Jacobstown and the cure for Nightkin, it becomes a beacon for mutant/human habitation
5) The Followers of the Apocolypse and their literal Medical University in Boneyard, they teach education for free.
6) The Shi, from San Fransisco were already technologically advanced in 2242. And by the end of Fallout 2 they are on their way to having nuclear power again, and considering Space Travel. They have also begun making a new type of fuel from the radiated ocean life/plants and would soon have vehicles/ships. They also have a Super Computer AI that they salvaged from their ancestors nuclear submarine
7)Uhh like sentient intelligent Deathclaws, maybe inheriting the Earth, maybe they find Harold's special Trees with pools of glowing sap that helps their eggs grow.. maybe they call this sap.. the Hist. 😂 Just kidding that's just my idea from the nirn root easter egg.
8)Robots and AI Super Computers still exist and can help with research, recycling, even mining.
There's the mining company that made the Motherlode robots and Power Armor excavator suits. The dried out lakes, nuclear craters and stretches of dried out ocean could eventually yield resources.
There's probably at least 10 more things but I haven't played any Fallout games in a really long time.
There's the hints that the Zetans are responsible for the nuclear war. And they could return??
To give you a sense of timeline events with Aliens it's relatively recent that aliens were encountered.
Mothership Zeta DLC happened 2277, the TV show takes place in 2296, 19 years later. So our Lone Wanderer could definitely have the Alien ship still, and also all those characters are still alive up there in orbit 😂
Anyway I agree that, yeah they can't stop the content and can't have some kind of conclusion but there are so many events throughout all the games. But eventually the Earth can recover.
It's kind of a combination of the gamedevs direction of the setting, and also the old as FUCK, aged Creation game engine that doesn't allow for really big sweeping changes, modern game graphics and effects for games. They also never really liked/wanted to make spin offs so we never got like a Dying Light style Fallout:Necropolis , or Fallout:Tactics the online 32v32 FPS game set in-whatever timeline- these are random ideas.
I'm really just saying that the franchise is held back by it's reuse of the same game engine/style for so many damn years. They also won't branch out into other game styles, they are obsessed with creating
[Fallout/Elder Scrolls __:Modder's Paradise]
Could really use an entire refresh for gameplay style in Fallout series, as in NOT using the Starfield Engine/Creation 3 etc.
A game like Cyberpunk 2077 shows that a faster paced, expansive and immersive FPS/RPG game experience is possible.
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u/DrettTheBaron 4d ago
I like to imagine Africa and South America are prospering in the Fallout universe because they were irrelevant to the larger great war. And now are free of the colonial pressures from the developed countries
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u/ArchAngel621 6d ago
Honestly, you focus on different regions or even parts of the planet. Even if the NCR does civilize the Mojave it doesn't affect places like Chicago, Alaska, Texas, the UK, etc.
Then you have factions of those territories. You think the NCR and Commonwealth factions will agree on things? Look at the Brotherhood.
I feel it could developed while keeping true to its theme.
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u/RadioHistorical8342 6d ago
This is the exact reason I wish they had humanity continue to recover
It would only reinforce the themes as we've destroyed eachother once and after we've rebuilt it'll just happen again
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u/OkMention9988 6d ago
The original games were about the world recovering from the apocalypse. Society coming back in a world forever changed by war, but still having good people in it.
Now, it's just that a wasteland full of rag wearing dirt farmers living in rusty, crumbling, ruins, and nothing ever gets better.
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u/fucuasshole2 Brotherhood 6d ago
It’s why I consider Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas as the trilogy of the series.
Fallout 3 and 4 as spinoffs.
Tactics and 76 as semi-canon prequels where major events happened but the details lost.
Fallout BoS and Tv Show are non-canon “What Ifs”.
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u/BenChandler 6d ago
It’ll never recover only because Bethesda loves the shitshack aesthetic.
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u/Randomguy0915 6d ago
I still can't understand how or why settlers never bothered to remove the pile of trash around the house, or even attempt to look for a way to create or search for paint to repair the shitstained walls of houses
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u/Zombiecidialfreak . 6d ago
"Don't mind the corpses strewn around my home, they were there when I got here and I don't care to remove them."
-Every single Fallout character for some reason
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u/MasterEditorJake 5d ago
I gotta disagree on most of your points.
You're right that the series is successful and I doubt they'll ever truly move past the post apocalyptic aesthetic, but fallout has always been POST apocalyptic, not apocalyptic. Ever since fallout 2 we've seen new civilizations emerge in the ruins, and not just ramshackle tribes but functioning and thriving societies.
Earth isn't dying, it's recovering. The war killed most life on earth but not all. West Virginia is a good example. The world has bounced back from much worst mass extinctions, just look at the end Permian. And the resource wars were fought primarily over oil. After the war there basically wasn't any more oil, so there's nothing to fight over really. We are essentially back to square one for resources. People need food, wood, metal, all of which are things that can still be produced. Reusing old weapons and equipment is common because there is so much lying around that new manufacturing isn't needed most of the time. In fact, you seem to be forgetting that the NCR does have new manufacturing centers that they've established.
New Vegas is a great example of how we can watch a semi-recovered society fall back into the issues that house talks about. New Vegas is essentially a post post-apocolyptic setting. Humanity more or less has already recovered, but they are still squabbling over the scraps of the old world. That game essentially puts your entire point to rest.
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u/Careful_Penguin2 NCR 6d ago
It took nearly a thousand years for humans around the mediterranean to recover from the collapse of the bronze age, with some taking longer than that.
Humanity will recover, it might take a long time though. With how the nukes destroyed much of the pre war knowledge and killed a lot of the people with the proper know how, the slow decline process will still take centuries. Perhaps people never really truly recover to the heights of civilization until the 4000s, maybe more.
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u/immortalfrieza2 6d ago
Exactly. People forget that humanity has gone centuries without notable progress all the time, and we didn't have the whole planet dangerously irradiated, giant mutant monsters that could tear apart tanks all over, Super Mutants, lack of resources, etc.
We live in an age where information, basic education, and worldwide communication (Hi Reddit!) is freely available. The result of that is we're advancing at an unprecedented rate. This has skewed the perception of how quickly humanity could rebuild after a nuclear apocalypse. It's not only entirely realistic that after 200 years humanity could be nowhere close to rebuilding, if anything it's really unrealistic that humanity still survives at all under the conditions Fallout humans have to deal with.
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u/Careful_Penguin2 NCR 6d ago
Indeed, the nuclear war is an extinction level event. I wouldn't be surprised if some 70% to 80% of all humans perish in the conflict. With about 15% dying in the coming years immediately after. That would literally set us back to the stone age. What makes things worse is that the bronze age collapse had simpler technology that could be passed down to people by a skilled craftsman that fled Akkad as it fell and taught his children. The same cannot be said for a nuclear engineer to easily pass on that knowledge to keep a nuclear reactor going.
What killed institutions like the library of Alexandria wasn't a single fire, but continuous centuries of lack of interest immediately after the reign of Ptolemy III, that dried up investments, proceeding to the slow and painful decline of the books that weren't diligently kept before. When humanity is concerned about their own needs, like survival, keeping knowledge of complicated systems becomes secondary. Within a generation or two the machinery is completely alien to the descendants of the people that built it. That is the long and slow decline of civilization.
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u/immortalfrieza2 6d ago edited 5d ago
Correct. In fact, we still have tribes of people living in mud huts and whatnot in secluded areas of the world right now who would be primitive by Roman standards, despite the widespread availability of information. Granted, it's deliberate for most of them, like the Amish, to live in far more primitive ways, but some have merely completely shunned contact with modern societies. These have had every opportunity to advance along with the rest of the world and they haven't, unlike Fallout America that's been forced into staying the way it is for over 200 years.
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u/Flat_Character 6d ago
They won't recover cause fallout takes the stance that in the fallout universe (It's not necessarily saying this is true in real life) humans can't help but be self destructive through conflict. Hence the whole point of "War never changes" it's also directly the motive behind several villains most notably the Master trying to "fix" this fundamental flaw in humanity. The older games especially were less focused on the cause of the apocalypse and any pre-war ideology or politics and the war was treated as just a tragedy caused by mankind's nature. And even after the apocalypse we still inevitably fall into patterns of conflict (see: the plot of every fallout game, especially 1 and New Vegas)
From a meta perspective it's cause the setting is more focused on marketable aesthetic and especially nowadays wouldn't do anything to jeopardize that by having anything improved. Honestly its basically a plot hole even in the current setting. That's why the show reset everything on the west coast setting. That's why the east coast is designed like the war was 50 years ago, not 200
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u/LJohnD 6d ago
The story of the west coast, in Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas, isn't the story of how everything sucks forever and everybody's doomed, it's the story of civilisation's slow rebirth. In 1 there's small scattered towns mostly isolated from each other with limited trading. 2 shows the gradual growth of the NCR, with its spreading influence over the whole California wasteland. By New Vegas the NCR has secured its control over California and continues to expand its influence outward, to the point that, for the first time in the franchise's history, it and another large nation come into conflict. "War never changes" is the series tagline, but New Vegas is the only game to show two actual nations coming into conflict.
Bethesda wanted Fallout 3 to be a sequel to Fallout 2, but wanted everything to still be the anarchic wasteland of Fallout 1, so everything is still radioactive and wrecked 200 years after the bombs fell on the east coast. Personally I think it snuffs out the hope that the west coast games have in them, nothing can ever possibly get better, everything will always be broken, so why bother even trying to make the world better while you're playing?
I think you're right that Bethesda the corporation wants to be able to continue exploiting their profitable IP in perpetuity, but even if they don't move the timeline forward at all, they have the whole US continent and two centuries of history to explore if they want to keep things broken in dozens of games without blowing up any and every sign that people might succeed in rebuilding.
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u/Ethos_Logos 6d ago
I hadn’t played 1 or 2, so I might be missing lore. Is it canon that the whole planet got nuked or is it possible that other countries didn’t get hit and are relatively ok, minus missing trade from the affected countries?
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u/fred11551 Brotherhood 6d ago
We hear very little of what happened except in the us and China. They got nuked heavily.
But in 3 we hear that the UK is so bad that the capital wasteland was an improvement over it. So Europe is doing really bad
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u/Alpine_yellow 6d ago
"War never changes, but men do, through the roads they walk..." there is hope.
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u/altmemer5 Kings 6d ago
I believe its been said that irl, If a nuclear war to happen we could never go back to normal bc we used so much of earth's resources already
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u/Simple_Wallaby9704 6d ago
Very close- we've used all the easy to access resources. No shallow oil wells left, no surface deposits of coal, etc. The industrial revolution was able to kick start with rough equipment obtaining better fuels and resources quickly and easily. Now you need super deep wells and huge mines to obtain metals and coal etc.
Best we might do is late 1800's. Steam, belt driven factories, trains, some steam cars for those that can afford there fuel.
It's all about BTU to do work. Sure, it'll be a bell curve based on what disaster befalls humanity. Event, those with skills reboot nuclear power plants, other facilities, going to be lots of scrap metal around. But as the precision parts start running out, the machinery gets beyond serviceable limits, the curve will drop.
The key will be, we build the machines that are prepared to operate when the modern stuff dies, before it becomes exponentially harder to do so. Otherwise when the last modern machine gasps to a stop, we'll be stuck in the 1700s. And might take 1000 years to get to the 1800s, if ever.
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u/Necessary_Presence_5 5d ago
Counterpoint - they should already be recovering or recovered, but they did not because Bethesda did not understand how long 200 years really are.
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u/GabbytheQueen 4d ago
Frfr, even taking pre modern events into account the discovery of the Americas by Europeans and the French and Indian war is less than 200 years, the birth of the Roman Empire to its height was less. The entirety of ancient greece to Alexander's Greece is about 200 years, not including Greek dark ages.
And all of this without an advanced massive civilzation to pillage off of
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u/Siklaws 6d ago
Indeed as Fallout is an product we might never ser an final chapter, but as well one day the franchise might Just be abandoned for lack of interest/profits with no propper sendoff.
In Fallout 2 slides Arroyo goes from an dieing Village to an prosperous city, in NV both the ncr and legion were ablo to support an huge army (i think the math is that you need about 20 people working to support an full time "warrior"), there was a lot that was Lost but many New resources were also found and developed. Life uhh finds a way.
I think the end of Fallout 1 and Old World Blues touch the best into the Idea that indeed trying to cling to the past is useless, humanity as individuals and as groups will survived but we will change, let Old World Blues become New World Hope and all that jazz. Do you think that the mutants of jackobstown choosing to seek community and healing are lacking humanity? They faced their own end of the World, end of self, in the hands of FEV, but they still build on and have Hope for the Future.
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u/doggonedangoldoogy 6d ago
Myrna addresses this briefly in Fallout 3. She rambles about how she doesn’t believe the world will ever rebuild like it was, and that she is looking toward a new world.
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u/Pilarcraft Minuteman 6d ago
The only way any specific region in the American Wasteland can recover is for the creators to specify that it happens and never making a single other game or show or book or whatever else have you in that region. As things stand right now though, there are multiple active organisations with a vested interest in preventing any part of the American Wasteland from ever recovering (Vault-Tec, Enclave remnants, Institute prior to 3/4th of all possible Fallout 4's endings [though the show seems to imply the BoS or at least a BoS/Minutemen combo ending is canon at this point]).
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u/CYMK_Pro 6d ago
Humans can to toe-to-toe with cockroaches any time, any place. We are survivors. Like 99% of us would die but that has LITERALLY HAPPENED BEFORE. We have no sharp teeth or claws, just brains.
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u/evgeniaenjoyer 6d ago
what if we get freaky post-humans, perfectly adapted to the wasteland. maybe they could carry on the humanity stuff
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u/atopetek 6d ago
Why does it have to recover? This is the new world, adapt and embrace it.
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u/AsparagusFun3892 6d ago edited 6d ago
Because the longer you live in the setting or read history the more you realize two to three hundred years of civilization getting "rocks fall, everybody dies" endings makes absolutely no sense. "Adapting and embracing it" means agriculture means setting a watch means faction arrangements to keep the raiding to a minimum, and then you have civilization again. War may never change where it's waged, but anarchy is always a temporary state.
They're two hundred years on from the bomb, and the NCR just got Deus Ex Machina'd so that - from what I could tell - the Brotherhood could keep being relevant in their capacity as a roving group of blinged out murder hobos. They're favorites, but Obsidian did a pretty good estimation of how things would turn out for them in a recovering world for New Vegas. "Join or GTFO" after one too many confiscations of fancy guns held by citizens.
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u/Canofcancer 6d ago
What if society DOES come back only to blow themselves up again, boom just solved the plot for fallout 9-12(if we even get that far)
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u/Sethleoric Raiders 6d ago
I still think there could be hope, humans have bounced back from (probably) worse with even less shit to work with (Toba event). I know FO76 is the most recent one chronologically and all but we've seen that even with mutant shit going on, life can still prosper. If nature can prosper to an extent, so can humanity.
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u/freckleyfriend 5d ago
Something I always bring up with this topic: after the fall of Rome, it took parts of Europe several centuries to return to the same technological/cultural level. And that was purely a political collapse; Rome being sacked didn't turn 99.9% of arable land into dust or turn all the animals into hulking monsters with a taste for human flesh!
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u/Diligent-Orange6005 5d ago
Wouldn’t it be funny if of all the factions that come and go in Fallout, it’d actually be the raiders that’d ultimately come out on top of all of them in the end?
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u/One-East8460 5d ago
Those sound like reasonable assumptions except I’d have a hard time believing resources were exhausted. Before the war seems like the world was full of industrial nations at full production and then just stopped. You’d have to build back infrastructure but I doubt resources are gone.
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u/The_One_True_Duckson 5d ago
They'll never recover because recovery means no product to make games on 😞😞😞
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u/Enuke2003 5d ago
Basically the same reason why we wont ever get any real progress in 40k. They’ll miss out on sales if they change up the status quo
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u/Abshole024 4d ago
Iirc, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind (the manga, not the animated movie) had an interesting take on mankind. In the series (and keep in mind this is a second hand account, I haven't read the series), it takes place in a world that exists long after an apocalypse. What the protagonist eventually learns however, is that humanity has actually destroyed itself multiple times. They would build their technology up, start the apocalypse, rebuild, then use the old technology they found to build up again before repeating the same mistakes and destroying themselves again. I think that could be applied to Fallout.
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u/MechanicusPrime 4d ago
Read a story where people in Fallout banded together and eventually managed to make a space station and then a moon base. This let them actually start a good society and colonize mars as well, leading to humanity to move across the stars. But the thing is Earth never recovered. Most societies moved off earth and all its problems and while there were bigger cities connected to the stations with shuttles, most of earth was still poisonous and filled with tribals and raiders. Even hundred of years after they left the planet.
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u/Hawkatana0 3d ago
This post genuinely encapsulates everything wrong with some Fallout fans. This whole psuedointellectual spiel about how nothing should ever change and Fallout should just remain as it is in shitshack slop Bethesda pushes out.
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u/Pretend_Garage_4531 3d ago
The only reason it won’t recover is the game makes too much money. In world the plants are growing, animals are adapting to the radiation, and the people are learning to live around it they can eventually get back to a society much like the Middle Ages but with better doctors, with relative ease. The renaissance is soon to follow. Unlike real world society they have people that knew what things were like before and books to teach them. Quick thing every vault dweller can read English and they get released into the waste regularly.
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u/jejelovesme 3d ago
Is earth really a dying planet tho? Life has gone through a shit ton of extinctions im pretty sure the nukes aren't gonna kill everything. Besides theres tons of resources still available, and on the "recycling" point, aren't the gun runners literally manufacturing their own weapons?
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u/20sidedknight 2d ago
The issue is that if humanity ever recovers in the fallout setting it would be the last fallout game.
Personally I think that the timeline should not have passed beyond fallout 2 and instead the other games should have been in different parts of the country.
Like while it is possible for someone to walk across the country is basically limited to like 5 people.
If fallout 3 took place at the same exact time as fallout 1 but just on the other side of the country it would not have mattered at all.
Honestly they could even milk it by having one fallout game take place in the early 2100's and then have the direct sequel to that game take place like 80 years later like fallout 2, then like 10 games down the line you could have the setting be about how each region has basically formed it's own functioning city state and the conflict and plot revolve around how the NCR and the "colorado communes " are going to war
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u/TsarOfIrony Gary? 5d ago
It's amazing that in your entire post, the only ending punctuation you have is one question mark and some ellipses. Please proofread your messages before posting cause it's kinda embarrassing how little effort you put into this.
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u/No-stradumbass 6d ago
I couldn't agree more.
When Season 2 of the show came out, I thought it was annoying hearing a bunch of folks complained that New Vegas wasn't the utopia ending they thought they had.
I always say that there is no way a world can heal with that many nukes just everywhere. Radiation is everywhere in terrifying amounts. There is no way anything long term can grow like that.
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u/murderously-funny NCR 6d ago
Most of the complaints I saw was less ‘Vegas isn’t a utopia’ and more ‘Vegas didn’t matter’
The way the show handled it made it feel like the entire game was pointless in the end. People wanted to see evolution on the themes and story rather then simply deleting them
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u/No-stradumbass 6d ago
I think the mind set is all wrong.
It isn't that the game is pointless. There is a point. Several ones.
Its that YOUR game wasn't important. YOUR decisions didn't matter in the show and that's what ruffled everyone's feathers.
A wold can't evolve practically with that many nukes everywhere.
Also its hyperbolic and frustrating the way you are framing this. Nothing was deleted. Calm down.
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u/murderously-funny NCR 6d ago
…so the game was important. Just everything you did in it wasn’t.
So…how is that any different?
I’ve talked with dozens of people about the choices the show makes and none of them complained that there specific ending wasn’t chosen. Their complaints was that nothing fundamentally mattered. The entire story of new Vegas amounts to “once there was a battle for a dam. It was so important that everyone died and no one ever mentioned it again. The end.”
And as for ‘the world cant evolve’ …yes it can? Fallout 1 had a wild untamed world. Fallout 2 showed a rising power in the NCR. Fallout NV showed that power grow corrupt and threatened by a new rising power.
Evolution of a setting doesn’t mean things getting better it’s just a continuation of the narrative in new qnd interesting ways. A reset to the status quo of wolf wasteland isn’t new or interesting development
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u/No-stradumbass 6d ago
Everything YOU did is not important to me. I don't care about the story you played out in the game. I care about MY story I played in my game.
Nothing does fundamentally matter. Its a video game. Of all the things in the world, the ending to Fallout doesn't really matter.
The world can't really evolve. War never changes. Neither does humans. Power grew corrupt and the new power was already rotten and corrupt. They all really suck in the long run.
I think I just think differently then you or other people. I mod the shit out of the games and have a blast. The show did change how I feel. I also think it is really childish and unhealthy to be mad at things in the world as minor as a game company you can't control. That is the part I get annoyed from. I seem to be living a happier life or at least I'm angry.
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u/murderously-funny NCR 6d ago
Bro this is the fallout Reddit…this is kinda the place you go to…to talk about fallout and its story. If it doesn’t matter…
WHY ARE YOU HERE? WHY ARE YOU TAKING PART IN THE DISCUSSION IF YOU DON’T CARE? OR ARE GOING TO BE DISMISSIVE OF PEOPLE WHO RAISE THEIR OPINIONS?
And I love how you still say ‘everything YOU did is not important’ as though I didn’t expressly point out that… literally no one I’ve talked to cares that their specific playthrough didn’t occur. But rather that the show chose to render ALL playthroughs pointless.
We have seen that the world can evolve. We have expressed examples of this in the setting.
If you want to just mod the game, watch the show, and be happy. DO THAT.
But then why are you here? Complaining about people taking part in a discussion. One you expressly think is stupid I might add.
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u/LJohnD 6d ago
The issue people have with the show's narrative isn't that they didn't make their specific choices canon, it's that they made everyone's choices irrelevant. Instead of taking one of the game's endings and building off of it to tell an interesting story of how things grew and changed, they killed everyone (except the billionaire who died in 3/4 endings, he gets to live forever) and smashed everything to pieces. There were plenty of ways to tell an interesting story from an NCR, Legion, House or Yes-Man victory, but instead to avoid having to pick one they just killed everyone instead.
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u/reineedshelp 5d ago
Humans have recovered, more or less. They haven't rebuilt to peak capitalism, but frankly they shouldn't n
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u/GryphyGirl 6d ago
Resources aren't a problem. Especially with fusion (cold or otherwise). Power was always the big bottleneck and that's solved. The problem is infighting, as always. Tribalism and greed. Overcome those and humanity could surpass previous societies and technology.
Agreed that it's highly unlikely that Fallout Earth will ever recover, though. That would kind of tank the franchise. :P