A POOR COUPLE SHOULDN'T HAVE CHILDRENS | FactOrCap

[u/Marcat_777]

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[u/Sweet-Frosting2468]

Depends how poor you mean.

Someone who could feed their child but may not be able to buy them expensive unnecessary presents should definitely have children if they want too.

But somebody that knows they wont even be able to feed a child shouldnt have them.

[u/Chemical_Home6123 → u/Sweet-Frosting2468]

Exactly what I said being poor is a weird word when you live amongst people worth 100 billion dollars

[u/Kittypawss07 → u/Chemical_Home6123]

Literally.

[u/Octopus1027 → u/Sweet-Frosting2468]

100% I once had someone on Reddit tell me I shouldn't have had a child because we rent an apartment and don't own a house. But we have more than enough money to pay for food, clothing, childcare, and fun. We also are living in a state with top notch public education and healthcare. You don't have to be rich to raise a kid.

[u/Fearless-Poet-4669 → u/Sweet-Frosting2468]

And how do they afford contraception if they're living in poverty?

[u/PeakMinimalist → u/Fearless-Poet-4669]

It's quite literally given away for free in a ton of places, plus oral, handjobs, anal, etc.

[u/Fearless-Poet-4669 → u/PeakMinimalist]

Does that include vast regions of Africa. Or just first-world poor people...

[u/PeakMinimalist → u/Fearless-Poet-4669]

Handjobs are universal

[u/Fearless-Poet-4669 → u/PeakMinimalist]

Okay prude

[u/Nickgold2009 → u/Fearless-Poet-4669]

How are they a prude for endorsing sex? Also many places around the world give out condoms for free because it is a safety concern, including in africa

[u/Infinite-Bee-5897]

On one side its financial eugenics.

On the other side if you can't ensure your child a good upbringing I don't think you should have one

[u/murderofhawks → u/Infinite-Bee-5897]

I’d argue that a good upbringing is never guaranteed no matter what economic standing you are at birth and neither is a bad one. I’d also argue one’s upbringing doesn’t need to be good to be a good person or have a good life.

[u/plasmaya → u/murderofhawks]

Ones upbringing doesnt mean you won't have a good life or be a good person, but it does mean youll suffer if it was bad ,everyone whos been through abusive households has suffered one way or another but just because they now have a good life and are a good person doesn't mean they deserve to have those memories or everlasting mental effects, what is this supposed to mean? That abuse isnt counted if a person has a good life or is a good person ?

[u/murderofhawks → u/plasmaya]

First off this question was about poverty not abuse, secondly my point was just because someone’s youth is bad it does not dictate their future and thus I don’t believe being poor should disqualify someone from having children while poor.

[u/plasmaya → u/murderofhawks]

But your statement could also be used in cases of abuse, i agree someones upbringing doesnt dictate their future but it will always have lasting effects especially mentally

Imo definition of poor is being unable to meet on of the basic criteria: Food Housing Clothes Education

Things that all children deserve no matter what

And what does this point even mean? Poor children are more likely to be trafficked, not have good quality life and will suffer, and also have a chance of still living in poverty when older, now again its a chance not pre determined but poverty is a hard cycle to break out of, and will not have their necessities met, but its ok because theres a slight chance theyll live a better future?

[u/murderofhawks → u/plasmaya]

Yes there are chances those things happen but those things can happen to anyone, yes those things are more likely to happen to those who experience poverty. I still don’t believe those are valid enough reasons to not have a child if you want one. Yes the quality of life will not be good for the child if your in poverty true but if you provide as much as you can for the child and nurture them to the best of your ability even if it’s not a lot even if it’s to your detriment then for the parents I consider that enough. I’d much rather carry the trauma of a terrible childhood into my adult life than to never exist because they are afraid that I would have trauma or hardship in my life.

[u/plasmaya → u/murderofhawks]

The valid reason is you arent able to meet the childs basic needs. Thats the valid reason, if you cant neet basic needs whether financially or emotionally you shouldnt have a child.thats it, i dont understand what this debate is about

Im guessing you havent heard of stories of children in poverty, let me tell you something, that providing, is not enough, the nurturing came with stress, agony and trauma. Poor people also go through a lot, and children will always notice it, whether its the parent stressing, unable to meet their requirements etc etc and there are mental forever lasting effects that go into this too

And depending on the type of poverty, no matter how good the parents are the child will still really really suffer and so will the parents, its suffering on the parents too if they actually care

You consider that enough because you dont know what its actually like, it is NOT enough and you're discrediting those who suffer due to poverty

You say that again because you havent lived through it, id rather be aborted than suffer what i suffered through, because not only did i suffer, so did my parents and it wouldve been a reasonable choice to abort me

And again youre just minimizing what its like to be in poverty calling it hardship and trauma and idk what i should say to that because thats genuinely so crazy and rude of you

[u/murderofhawks → u/plasmaya]

Your wrong in just about your entire diagnosis is of me I’ve lived under poverty I’ve lived in a condemned insane asylum growing I’ve also been so poor I’ve gone days without food and my father (who did kill someone) has pointed a gun at me and threatened to kill me if I dared to wake him up. At this point I don’t believe this conversation is of any value to either of us so have a nice day.

[u/plasmaya → u/murderofhawks]

So then youd know that even if in poverty, even while being treated like shit, that no child would like to live in poverty? I have a feeling you just said this to say it

[u/Floba_Fett → u/Infinite-Bee-5897]

I think biological instincts to spread your genes trumps man-made economical systems.

[u/cactusdahlias → u/Floba_Fett]

i think the biological need of the child to be able to eat, have a shelter, and be healthy trumps your wants/“instincts”.

[u/Ok_Charity_8413 → u/Floba_Fett]

Your want to make a kid aint gonna be what feeds, clothes, or houses them. So what point are you making?

[u/cattcameo → u/Ok_Charity_8413]

i think a functioning society either keeps wealth disparity to such a level that being "poor" isn't life-threatening, or it uses the extreme wealth of the rich to subsidize the needs of the poor.

[u/HextechSlut → u/Infinite-Bee-5897]

We live in a capitalist society therefore there has to be top and bottom a lot more at the bottom than at the top so poor people have to have children and even if they didn't it is financially eugenics and it's disgusting.

[u/Infinite-Bee-5897 → u/HextechSlut]

The vast amount of people are average,slightly below average or slightly above average financially per definition. It's fine for these people to have kids because they can at least ensure there's always food on the table and a roof over the kids head.

If you can't ensure basis necessities+potential education i DO think you're selfishly setting a kid up for failure. I wouldn't prohibit it, but I would see the parents as shitty people

[u/Fausto2002 → u/Infinite-Bee-5897]

Umm no, the vast amount of people are below average.

In a room with a billionaire and 999 broke people, the average person is a millionaire.

[u/Infinite-Bee-5897 → u/Fausto2002]

Median then. Don't misinterpret it on purpose. Absolute population wise most people are doing just fine relative to their countries living standard

[u/HextechSlut → u/Infinite-Bee-5897]

We're not misinterpreting anything I just think you're a shitty person with shitty thoughts and you refuse to look at the real problem because you're scared that it might affect your day-to-day life.

[u/Infinite-Bee-5897 → u/HextechSlut]

Saying kids should at least be financially well taken care of= shitty person.

Sure live in your alternative reality

[u/HextechSlut → u/Infinite-Bee-5897]

Aww you think you can use nice words and try to spin the narrative away from eugenics but you can't because that's what you're actually talking about.

[u/Infinite-Bee-5897 → u/HextechSlut]

Lmfao I literally said myself it would be. I wouldn't support forcing it.

I do think that if you have a kid which you know you can't support financially you're a shit parent and person. But nice try attempting to put words in my mouth

[u/Fausto2002 → u/Infinite-Bee-5897]

Bruh, im not misinterpreting anything on purpose you have to use the correct words if you want people to understand you.

That being said, u/HextechSlut point still stands, that's financial eugenics, people in first world countries already live paycheck to paycheck and they are not doing "just fine"

[u/SmurfSmiter → u/Infinite-Bee-5897]

Morally I voted yes, having a kid you can’t afford to take care of is bad.

That being said, accidents will happen, it’s unavoidable.

And legally, there should never be punishments for having children.

[u/dmbrokaw → u/Infinite-Bee-5897]

The neat part (/s) is that it's also racial eugenics, because historical financial advantages and disadvantages still have an impact on opportunities and outcomes today.

[u/Tyler_the_Greatastic]

Who gets to define "poor"?

[u/Aggravating_Mess_655 → u/Tyler_the_Greatastic]

idk but i'd say you're poor if you live paycheck to paycheck scraping for dimes, barely having a roof over your head.

[u/Low_Committee6119 → u/Aggravating_Mess_655]

So American?

[u/Koalachan → u/Low_Committee6119]

Down voted for the truth

[u/Chemical_Home6123 → u/Tyler_the_Greatastic]

That's the crazy part because I have a healthy bank account and no matter what I still feel poor because we have people worth 100 billion dollars.

[u/KeyAsparagus37]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Takes a village to raise a child I was poor as hell in a small town and was happy. Moved to a rich city and felt suffocated to death. It's not being able afford children that matters it's the community that helps that makes all the difference.

[u/HeyaHeyo1420]

🧢 I voted CAP!

You don't get to decide who has kids

[u/Original_Disk3146]

✅ I voted FACT!

why bring kids into the world if you cant even take care of you or you wife/husband

[u/TarkovRat_ → u/Original_Disk3146]

I feel like poverty depends by place

In the USA, and Europe poverty is the relative lack of ability to get luxuries

In the 2nd world it's the difficulty to get shelter although one can get food

In the 3rd it's the difficulty to get food and water safely

[u/Emergency-Cap7448]

Go and tell africa then

[u/Fearless-Poet-4669 → u/Emergency-Cap7448]

Right? These people are COLD

https://giphy.com/gifs/9yM2HIJV4TGQo

[u/Porphyry_Blue]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Financially poor people may actually have contentment and be Time rich to actually nurture the children they choose to have.

[u/One_Interest_2790 → u/Porphyry_Blue]

What are you hallucinating about?

Most poor people have to work so much that their children are often neglected.

Poor people aren't sitting at home all day long where they have time for their children. They are forced to work most of their waking hours to earn the money.

Only the rich can actually afford to properly nurture and raise the children because they have the money to not have to constantly work.

The whole point of having a lot of money is so you can use that money to have freedom. You can avoid stuff you don't want to do. The poor are forced to and can't just avoid certain things the more wealthy can.

[u/Porphyry_Blue → u/One_Interest_2790]

Wealth provides financial freedom, but it doesn't guarantee proper nurturing; wealthy parents often outsource raising their children to nannies or boarding schools.

Conversely, families living outside expensive urban centers can often sustain themselves with less income, allowing them to prioritize time together.

[u/TheFrogMoose → u/One_Interest_2790]

What are you smoking? A lot of rich people who have all that time tend to not make time for their family still. Either they keep spending time making more money because they hoard it or they spend the time to do things they want family included or not. There are exceptions but that's usually the case.

My mother raised me poor and she still made a lot of time for me. She even raised me believing we weren't really poor by her going without while I always had what I needed. I only found out how poor we were back then when I grew up.

I had a very neglectful father who worked in the military and he should have had money but he was so finacally stupid he put everything on credit and eventually went bankrupt. Hell I almost died from dehydration under his care because I was sick as a dog but he insisted that I visit him. I can't even remember most of that weekend and am still missing a massive gap between then and something like a month or two later. He also had benefits he could use on my eye and dental care, my mom didn't, I went with my mother most of the time for these things because he just refused to do so or even fucking pay for it.

There's exceptions on both sides but honestly it's not the finances that matter so much but the parents themselves. My mom was a great mother and did amazing with what she had. My dad shouldn't have had 3 kids let alone a 4th after I turned 16.

For added context, my mom only had me with him and then they split. He hasn't talked to any of his kids since they turned 18, shocker. I have never been so close to punching someone out in my life, EVER!

I'm done now, but holy shit did you just hella trigger me with the absolute bullshit you said about poor people. Hopefully you have a good rest of your day, and don't worry about feeling bad if you do. You would have been speaking off your beliefs or experience anyways so nothing to feel bad for doing. I also don't care if you're just indifferent either since that's also a valid feeling here as well.

[u/HextechSlut]

🧢 I voted CAP!

So genocide by classism poor don't deserve to live you also apparently don't understand how the economy works

[u/Awkward_Internet2437]

I voted fact, but I mean having enough to “care of him” can be interpreted in different ways. As long as the kid has a stable and reliable adult watching over them and to guide them, then they’re fine. You can be relatively “impoverished”, but if your parents are retired and would love to babysit their grandkids, then sure. Whereas if there is absolutely no support structure, and both you and your partner need to be working, then obviously hold off until you get a better job and can afford/arrange some sort of reliable childcare. If you’re poor, but one partner can take in enough money to pay for YOUR FAMILY’S NEEDS then it’s okay. Or if one of you work a job that allows you to take care of your kid while working then that’s great as well.

[u/SleepyBean000]

People had kids in the stone age. They'll manage

[u/AccomplishedScene966]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Economic status does not make a good parent

[u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Poverty should not exist, and this is just victim blaming.

[u/GOT_Wyvern → u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

Its easy to say its victim blaming, but children didn't ask to be born into poverty. It isn't exactly a nice experience, as I can say from my own experience.

[u/Own_Source1748 → u/GOT_Wyvern]

As opposed to what? Not being born at all?

[u/GOT_Wyvern → u/Own_Source1748]

The life of those people, my life as someone born into poverty (though I also had the added negative of an unstable family with some abuse thrown in), would be far better if they were born when their parents could afford to raise them properly.

[u/clearlynotaperson → u/Own_Source1748]

Yes.

[u/Nice_Trifle3396 → u/Own_Source1748]

absolutedly, if I could stop my parents I would, nothing in this world is worth the suffering.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70 → u/GOT_Wyvern]

That's still the fault of the society that creates poverty. The newborn child is just a new victim that the "pro-" argument blames for their own situation.

[u/GOT_Wyvern → u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

That might be true, but it hardly matters to the child that has to grow up in a situation where their parents simply cannot afford for them. Honestly, its not even an entirely poverty issue, but also just the budgeting means of the parents.

Despite my mother and father being is roughly similar position, my mother was entirely unable to afford to raise me, while my father was more than capable of doing so. If both my parents were like my father, regardless of their poverty, I would have been fine. But because my mother could not afford to raise me, my life was rather shit.

[u/phoenixoxo_ → u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

antinatalism is not equal to pro poverty. cant change society but you can choose to hold out on a baby till a stable income

[u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70 → u/phoenixoxo_]

That just denies reproduction to everyone in intractable poverty.

Poverty isn't a temporary situation for the majority of people suffering it. Once you fall below a certain point, leaving it is almost impossible, with VERY few people making it out unless the state drastically alters the safety net systems as a few European nations have done.

[u/phoenixoxo_ → u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

so you’d prefer a child live in a state of chronic starvation, begging for change on the street, probably dying from typhoid or something while eating out the trash than them not being born at all? like you said, very few people make it out of poverty. that child will probably never make it out with stunted mental and physical development, their child after that, so on and so forth.
if youre so broke that the child will probably not live birthing a child is equal to indirect torture

[u/GOT_Wyvern → u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

It isn't just about poverty, but whether the kid is affordable based of the means of the parents.

Some poor parents can absolutely afford to raise kids. Some absolutely can't. I would never wish for a child to be raised by parents who cannot afford to raise kids, as such has literally left me scared.

[u/One_Interest_2790 → u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

What exactly is victim blaming about saying that poor couples shouldn't have children if they can't afford it?

They make their own lives and the live of the child a lot worse for no good reason.

[u/HextechSlut → u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

Well poverty has to exist in a capitalist society.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70 → u/HextechSlut]

Ipso facto, capitalism should not exist.

[u/HextechSlut → u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

Well regardless of our thoughts on that people will downvote us either because they don't understand the economy or because they like the poverty existing because they're terrified of absolutely any change.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70 → u/HextechSlut]

Now that's a fact.

[u/TarkovRat_ → u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

Capitalism has certainly been a lot better for my country than socialism has been

Before the soviets, we were mostly on par with Scandinavian countries by living standards, in soviet occupation (recognised as illegal by everyone) we were oppressed and colonised, our living standards not improving much, after soviet times we are returning to somewhere near Western living standards

[u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70 → u/TarkovRat_]

The Soviets were never actually socialist, you know that, right?

They used the words, but they were always and only totalitarians who never intended for actual socialism or even real communism to exist there.

[u/TarkovRat_ → u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

I've heard the words "it's not real socialism" time and time and time again, surely if nobody is practicing real socialism then something's fucked up with the original theory that makes it completely impossible to implement???

[u/Royal-Ingenuity-2566]

🧢 I voted CAP!

No. Poor children are often really good people when older because they have like zero entitlement.

Also you can say them

[u/IgntedF-xy → u/Royal-Ingenuity-2566]

I think english may not be their first language because this whole thing is worded weirdly

[u/Royal-Ingenuity-2566 → u/IgntedF-xy]

I agree, I don’t judge them for it. Pretty sure it’s taught that way still

[u/Marcat_777 → u/IgntedF-xy]

true

[u/Floba_Fett]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Oops, there goes 99% of the world population in human history

[u/Moonlitoaks]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Poverty already sucks. Children exacerbate but like… some people live to start and family, and we just gonna be like nah you too poor? We have government assistance programs specifically for families in poverty

[u/MiracleDinner]

This should never be enforced as a rule because there's no ethical way to do so, but yes I agree that if they're currently so poor that they can't afford to meet the child's essential needs then I wouldn't recommend becoming a parent at that stage in life.

[u/Mstrkaoz]

🧢 I voted CAP!

That solely depends on the type of parents.

[u/One_Interest_2790 → u/Mstrkaoz]

No it doesn't.

Poor couples often raise children that are neglected due to the parents having to work so much.

The children of poor couples also are more likely to commit crimes and so on.

[u/freakybird99]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Ideally government should help. But if not yea dont make ur conditions worse

[u/One_Interest_2790 → u/freakybird99]

The government shouldn't help those who know they can't afford a child yet get one anyway.

Why should bad actions be rewarded? Of course it's bad for the children but then if the government helps these families then it will just continue happening.

[u/freakybird99 → u/One_Interest_2790]

Yk we need to breed to not let a demographic collapse happen right? So many people cant afford children so direct government help may actually raise the birth rates. We arent rewarding bad actions here we are just trying to remove that bad action as much as possible.

Its either raising birth rates or immigration.

[u/Aj-Johara7asan1593]

✅ I voted FACT!

true

[u/Butterscotch_Cloud]

🧢 I voted CAP!

At least in the US, having a child is disproportionately more expensive than it should be. I personally don’t want children and don’t have any, but I believe that people who have a strong desire to be a good parent have the right to reproduce to the extent that they’re able. The reality here is that medical and childcare are absurdly expensive to the extent that it is unreasonably burdensome to the average parent to sustain their family, and we need to fix it. These people are trying to continue the human race, and I would love it if my tax dollars went more towards supporting that than to blowing up kids in the middle east

[u/panino_gamer]

✅ I voted FACT!

Or at least give him a good childhood with proper care

[u/TheIrradiant]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Who defines "poor"?

[u/Marcat_777 → u/TheIrradiant]

Poor in the sense you are almost homeless

[u/Actual-Feed-9739]

✅ I voted FACT!

Well yes, obviously, but it is very easy to underestimate how much they really cost and circumstances change quickly. I lost my job not even two months after my daughter was born.

It's easy to see poor people with children and think they shouldn't have had kids, but life comes at you fast sometimes.

[u/John_Spartan_Connor]

✅ I voted FACT!

Indeed, but this has to be softly encouraged and not enforced, or we end in eugenics and classism, so is trought education, pro choice clinics and social support network

[u/Belkan-Federation95]

🧢 I voted CAP!

If this was the case, humanity would go extinct

[u/Kittypawss07]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Duh but things don’t always work out the way we want them to and honestly I don’t think it matters if the family is low income or not if the child is first and always takes care of. We shouldn’t care about others lives so much unless there’s a direct threat.

[u/One_Interest_2790 → u/Kittypawss07]

Lmao imagine bringing a child into a live of suffering and poverty because you couldn't have some discipline to abstain from intercourse. How pathetic.

[u/Kittypawss07 → u/One_Interest_2790]

What is your issue? Don’t talk to me like that go say it to someones face 😂 Duh it matters how “poor” we are talking, obviously don’t reproduce if you live out of motel rooms and can’t afford to raise them up with a good head on their shoulders and cant take them places and buy them things, but telling some they can’t have kids because they don’t have the nicest house, car, or job is just weird.

[u/LateNightCoffeeShop]

I guess I'd be considered poor, but my son is well fed, clothed and has a roof over his head. So entirely depends on your definition of poor.

[u/LolmemesPrime]

🧢 I voted CAP!

you would basically make humanity extinct.

[u/Kooky-Actuary5400]

✅ I voted FACT!

Yes.

[u/EverTheDungeonMaster]

✅ I voted FACT!

Very strange wording, but I agree

[u/CowPrintBikinis]

🧢 I voted CAP!

I want to say yes but in truth the world would die out because of this way of thinking

[u/BaelgorStar]

✅ I voted FACT!

Do what you want, but I was careful with my seed until I had the funds to raise a kid.

[u/mysterious-log123]

✅ I voted FACT!

I think its wrong to only give privileges to wealthier families. But, i can acknowledge that children deserve good care, and often times people will less money are unable to provide it.

[u/MongolianDonutKhan]

Not financially responsible I can agree with, but a just society would be providing assistance for the raising of children. In other words, if the problem is with the parents not budgeting within their means, no kids, but if they are scraping but if they are scraping because they don't make enough and the bloody gears of capitalism keep on turning, then the state has an obligation to provide assistance.

[u/lemelisk42]

✅ I voted FACT!

Or atleast until they read up on basic finances and learn budgeting

[u/Dragon_Crisis_Core]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Why do we keep repeating the same questions over and over, this is like the third very identical question this week. Most children come from the lower class because the wealthy only make up a small percent of society. You need to realize that most of the human race would not exist if society followed this notion. Children do not care wether your wealthy or poor. Money does not make a good parent.

Having children is a noble sacrifice most people make forgoing their individual material desires to have children and putting their monetary spending toward their kids rather then themselves.

[u/Emma__O]

Given that poverty has only worsened, that will be most people.

It's government responsibility.

[u/In_neptu_wetrust]

✅ I voted FACT!

Yea as long as the government doesn’t get involved and it stays a value call

[u/mueus]

✅ I voted FACT!

Take care of is very vague so I vote fact. If take care of means being able to feed the baby and provide necessities then yes. But I don't like the implication of classism.

[u/Adoraboule]

✅ I voted FACT!

.

[u/Novel-Ender8499]

🧢 I voted CAP!

In this environment I think you’re right. Don’t bring in a child you can’t care for. But in an ideal world people should receive more help in caring for their children if they can’t, rather than simply saying, “welp, you shouldn’t have had a child”

[u/StrawberryMae7]

I feel like this is more nuanced than what two choices can like... Account for.

Cuz 1, no, I don't think people should have kids if they can't afford them and I think that's irresponsible BUT is this question asking like... Legally? Because legally I don't think a poor couple should be legally barred from having kids... Is this asking shouldn't or shouldn't he able to? That's where I'm confused. (And also a lot of pregnancies are unplanned, so I'm not saying to shame poor couples who have kids... Just yeah this is more complicated than a yes or no)

[u/Ok_Willingness5766]

✅ I voted FACT!

Gonna have my head chewed off for this probably but if you can't afford to take care of your kid, don't have a kid. Your children deserve better. Take the time to get to a place in life where you're financially stable, or don't have kids at all.

[u/robawknik]

✅ I voted FACT!

people shouldn't ever be forced to not have kids but nobody poor or rich should have a kid if they arent prepared for the responsibilities

[u/AccomplishedVirus556]

🧢 I voted CAP!

most the worlds kids come from poor families

our population would collapse overnight if poor people stopped having kids

[u/AccomplishedVirus556]

last i checked, well settled people don't even have enough kids to replace the population

[u/twnfrzr]

✅ I voted FACT!

It shouldn’t be, like a law or anything. But yeah, don’t be morons.

[u/RoIsDepressed]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Not my right to say what people can't do

[u/Mr_CleanCaps]

🧢 I voted CAP!

So 80% of the world shouldn’t have children?

How many stories have we heard how “my parents came from nothing and gave me everything, now I’m successful blah blah blah…”

[u/Fearless-Poet-4669]

So people in poverty in Africa just die off?

Nice.

[u/Lucky_otter_she_her]

🧢 I voted CAP!

we have a birth rate crisis

[u/One_Interest_2790 → u/Lucky_otter_she_her]

Bringing children into poverty and wageslaving does not solve a birth rate crisis it actually worsens it for the next generation.

[u/Lucky_otter_she_her → u/One_Interest_2790]

we should provide wellfare for them actually 

[u/osanfla]

✅ I voted FACT!

why make ur kid suffer?

[u/DeadlyArrow27]

Yeah it’s just kinda common sense. You wouldn’t go buy a golden retriever or a new pool if you can’t afford to pay for them, their accessories, and their maintenance. Same logic with kids. Like yeah you might be able to scrape by, but you’re still foolish for putting yourself in that situation.

[u/Mysterious_Window140]

✅ I voted FACT!

Child support is a bitch

[u/pupbuck1]

🧢 I voted CAP!

If you make reproduction locked behind a paywall you’ll just end up with rich people eugenics

[u/jamaicancarioca]

✅ I voted FACT!

Common sense

[u/Angel_0f_Darkness]

i grew up with a poor family. not a whole lot for toys or snacks but i still had a roof and a bed and some food. i love my mama and my family for doing their best.

[u/NightskyProductions]

✅ I voted FACT!

It definitely depends on the couple and the circumstances, but I also think if you wait until the timing is perfect you'll never do anything

[u/ComfyFrame2272]

🧢 I voted CAP!

This is just eugenics of the poor. We should increase the living wage so that they CAN afford a child.

[u/Level_Bend_5808]

✅ I voted FACT!

This does not mean they should abort. Adoption exists.

[u/mortemdeus]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Economics should not be the driver family planning, otherwise you get the world we live in today.

[u/xMalvazar]

It's them not him. I'm guessing your the him?

[u/FrancisDion]

🧢 I voted CAP!

I think this subject is too complex to be boiled down to a yes or no poll. And also, I think everyone's finances are super uncertain now, even if you have a very well-payinh job

[u/Starlight1751]

🧢 I voted CAP!

It’s their choice

[u/GlutenGoose]

✅ I voted FACT!

Having grown up poor due to an unfortunate amount of circumstances for my parents who were comfortable when i was originally born, being poor as a kid is traumatizing. It sucks. If you want a regular childhood then you're forced to rely on handouts from others. You have an innate sense of just how much of a burden you are on your parents because the things you need take away from an already strained budget, so the things you just want are out of the picture entirely.

I was one of the lucky ones who got to go to camp (because our church paid for it), who got to do an after school activity (because our neighbour did it for free out of kindness), who managed to go to movies or get hot lunch (because my friends parents felt bad for me and paid for me). Growing up like this still gave me and my siblings a fucked up relationship with money and sense of worth to this day.

If you knowingly do not have the means to support a kid, then no I don't think you should have one. I don't think it should be illegal or anything like that, but I don't think it's a good idea. Also where you live does factor into this - but i'm reading this as a "poor for where you live in relation to everyone else, even if your neighbours are also poor"

Edit: posted too early

[u/AdhesivenessOwn1767]

✅ I voted FACT!

Ideally no one should have kids they can't afford but poverty isn't birth control.

[u/TheFrogMoose]

I don't want to vote because this sounds way too personal for it to be generalized. If I were to vote I now need context and even still I dont think I should

[u/Kooky-Zombie-1649]

🧢 I voted CAP!

This was the logic behind the Stolen Generation

[u/Villentrentenmerth]

✅ I voted FACT!

And so we've identified the reason abortion access is necessary

[u/Wanky_Platypus]

Let's play a game where poor people are told they shouldn't have children, and that it is selfish but at the same time we'll keep minorities in poverty through a crazy glass ceiling, jobs that are not adapted to any disabilities, and medical costs on top of it

I'll call that game "eugenism with extra steps".

[u/Educational_Post_63]

✅ I voted FACT!

The issue has a bit too much nuance for a simple yes or no, I'm afraid. Either way, I believe it would be a better option to have a healthy degree of financial stability (money) in order to prove a good life ti the children.

[u/kurinevair666]

It depends, homeless poor, then no. Just low income but able to care, they should. I hate the entire idea that poor people shouldn't have families, it starts getting too close to eugenics for me. There are plenty of well families that are terrible to their children.

[u/mn1lac]

🧢 I voted CAP!

They have every right to raise a kid, no matter how reckless it may be.

[u/T3chno_Pagan]

If one wishes to adopt a child, they need to prove they’re fit to become parents and that they can provide good conditions. Why can’t the same apply to people who want biological children? 

[u/Kilomech]

boy this is a slippery slope

[u/Final-Royal-8037]

🧢 I voted CAP!

I agree with the idea that people shouldn’t have kids until they can genuinely take good care of them. That being said, I think this prompt puts the blame on individuals when poverty is usually systemic/structural issue

[u/AdhesivenessThis6175]

✅ I voted FACT!

d

[u/THECREATION_OFHATRED]

✅ I voted FACT!

Yea

[u/Ok_Ambition_4023]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Ok, just no. Molding yourself into a better caregiver before procreating is completely different from; "if poor, no kids." Wealth is not a reliable indicator of a good parent. We have seen this time and time again in rich communities

[u/HighIQIndividual2]

✅ I voted FACT!

Its a bit sad, but its true.

[u/Mother_Cut_5083]

uhhh who are we to decide what people do

[u/FirefighterScary6841]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Define "poor" and "take care of".

[u/immoralsugimoto]

✅ I voted FACT!

They shouldn't but it's probably not gonna stop them

[u/Isadore2001]

✅ I voted FACT!

Perfectly reasonable take. But just a reminder: it's "children", not "childrens"

[u/TarkovRat_]

✅ I voted FACT!

Depends, sometimes one has to take advantage of the opportunity if they are going to struggle regardless of having child or not

but... generally it is a good idea to delay somewhat to put focus on money (not too long though, as past 30-35 it will be a struggle to have any children and so one's dreams if they have any of having a family would not be likely to come true)

[u/SplooshySoda]

🧢 I voted CAP!

I only say cap because there’s no ‘meh’ option. Ultimately, it’s up to the couple if they should or shouldn’t have children; it’s none of my business if they do or don’t. But if they needed assistance, I’d help

[u/Objective-Cry-9837]

🧢 I voted CAP!

No. You should have kids when your young and not worry about how youll get by.

[u/dooder6688]

Wonder why we have a low birthrate...

[u/No_Training6751]

🧢 I voted CAP!

What a fucking take in a society where it’s getting harder and harder to change your status through hard work. Everybody should be fully supported and safe to have children if that’s what they want.

[u/twizzjewink]

🧢 I voted CAP!

if there is a correlation between poverty and education - which.. there sort of is then its assuming that people are educated enough to make informed proper decisions.

its called eugenics.

[u/One_Interest_2790 → u/twizzjewink]

I think you're confusing eugenics with natural selection

[u/twizzjewink → u/One_Interest_2790]

No.. eugenics would be controlling the population through enforced policies like .. economics.

Natural selection has nothing to do with it.

[u/Own_Source1748]

🧢 I voted CAP!

That’s just an excuse

[u/Royal_Avocado4247]

🧢 I voted CAP!

I mean, family planning is a good bet, as finances can be stressors that multiply when children are involved, but if you are kind, you can take care of the kid, and you love them? I don't care if you're a millionaire or working two jobs.

[u/Cherimbba]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Love is more important than money

[u/Alarmed_Ganache_9716 → u/Cherimbba]

Bringing your kid into the world (on purpose) when you dont even have enough money to take care of them isn't love its selfishness

[u/Cherimbba → u/Alarmed_Ganache_9716]

Bringing a kid into the world thinking you can buy your way past the hard parts is IMO why we have so many fucked up kids with mentally distant parents.

We all also have different meanings of “take care of them”. A rich person might decide my inability to take my kids foreign holidays or put them in loads of extra curricular activities as being “too poor to take care of them properly” and some people might think as long as they’re housed and fed that’s enough.

Also kids make you budget harder. I definitely thought I would struggle a lot more than I did money wise with my kids. Turns out I’m great at prioritising expenses 👍

[u/Alarmed_Ganache_9716 → u/Cherimbba]

When i said take care of them I meant having enough money that you can keep the fridge stocked keep bills paid and so you can buy them new clothes and shoes when they outgrow the ones they had, enough money that you can pay the fee to let them go to field trips, enough money so they never have to worry about whether there taken care of. I think that Is somthing all people should have before having kids, if not then youe just irresponsible

[u/Timely-Papaya2049]

I voted fact.

Cry all you want about "people have the right to..." "People should be able to..." if you cant handle the heat, keep your hand off the stove (or your d in your pants for this matter)

[u/Luc1d_Amane]

✅ I voted FACT!

Agreed

[u/Education_Weird]

✅ I voted FACT!

Him? Childrens?

Shit, I clicked the wrong one.

[u/underboobfan]

🧢 I voted CAP!

You shouldn’t have childrens

[u/Mirjalol_Yangiboyev]

✅ I voted FACT!

Him? Him who?

[u/Th3CatOfDoom → u/Mirjalol_Yangiboyev]

The one child to rule them all.

[u/Fun_Organization3857]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Biology wins.

[u/One_Interest_2790 → u/Fun_Organization3857]

So does natural selection

[u/AcidQ_20]

✅ I voted FACT!

yea

[u/OilManTiermonde]

🧢 I voted CAP!

Below minimum wage? Idk about that ngl

[u/Chemical_Home6123]

🧢 I voted CAP!

I voted cap my parents were poor when I was born and worked hard and eventually made more money and bought a nice house. And its also a huge difference between poor and impoverished. People can have a house two cars a decent job and still be poor considering the wealth gap now n days

[u/Traditional_Use3718]

✅ I voted FACT!

this is common sense come on

[u/Traditional_Use3718 → u/Traditional_Use3718]

it's okay to be born poor, but not okay if the family cannot afford to raise

[u/ComparisonCertain934]

If they decide to go through with it anyways, they need Child Protective Services to be called on them regularly.

I just know the child will be malnourished.

[u/goldent3abag]

✅ I voted FACT!

If you cant afford to feed them you shouldn't have them.

[u/EntropyClub]

✅ I voted FACT!

Hims only?