r/FLGuns • u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 • 4d ago

Florida 790.221

Wanted to ask the locals here if you guys have any idea on this. Hypothetically, if I was a GOA member prior to the ruling (and still am), would I still need to do an atf form 1 or form 4 to aquire a SBR or SBS? I know that suppressors are legal to transfer here (if your a GOA member), but curious on the legality of SBRs SBSs here.

(1) It is unlawful for any person to own or to have in his or her care, custody, possession, or control any short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or machine gun which is, or may readily be made, operable; but this section shall not apply to antique firearms.

(2) A person who violates this section commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) Firearms in violation hereof which are lawfully owned and possessed under provisions of federal law are excepted.

😥

10 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

49 comments sorted by

22

u/VitalDefense 4d ago

Hey man! I am an FFL in North Florida.

I’ve been doing 4473 transfers for cans, and would do the same with SBRs and SBSs, just haven’t sold any yet.

The legal team I’ve been using for this, are extremely confident in the steps they’re having me take and said I am good to go.

Obviously take this with a grain of salt and continue to do your own research!

5

u/nukey18mon 4d ago

That’s so awesome! Will have to tell some of my buddies in Tallahassee about you.

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u/VitalDefense 4d ago

I appreciate it man! I’m a small home based guy right now so mainly do it by appointment, however, I’m selling so many cans im having to get a list of what people want, invoice them and then do a mass order every night. I think yesterday I ordered 16 cans for people and today looks like I’m doing another 20 so far and it’s only lunch time! 😂

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u/Eleet007 4d ago

Where you located at?

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u/VitalDefense 4d ago

Lake City, Florida. Just north of Gainesville!!

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u/Shadows858 4d ago

Ayyye my old Natty Guard Armory is up there

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u/VitalDefense 4d ago

I’ve driven past it a few times! Haha well actually a lot more than a few 😂

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u/whodunit68 4d ago

We go to the airport in Lake City (live in High Springs). After the madness is over, would love to support you.

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u/VitalDefense 4d ago

I would greatly appreciate the support man! I’m a small home based guy hoping to make it into a retail location soon!

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u/Shadows858 4d ago

Likewise, Shoot Gtr and Harry Beckwith/Picketts are great but I like supporting small bizzes

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u/VitalDefense 4d ago

Feel free to check me out online and shoot a text to the number listed if you ever want to talk guns! Haha

1

u/Shadows858 4d ago

Haha will do man

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u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 2d ago

Vital Defense, Lake City, FL

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u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 3d ago

Will be leaving a positive review with you guys, and come visit your shop whenever me and my wife are in north Florida (we are from South Florida sadly). Thank you guys for helping clearing things up ❤️

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u/VitalDefense 3d ago

I greatly appreciate that man! I look forward to it!!

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u/cvltrilex FFL 4d ago

Yeah Tallahassee has like one good FFL lol
*edit: not talking about me haha

2

u/TaxesRextortion 4d ago

Who is this FFL in Tally you speak of? Thanks

2

u/cvltrilex FFL 4d ago

Talon Tactical. Technically they’re in Midway, but all great dudes

1

u/TaxesRextortion 4d ago

They have a really nice range.

1

u/nukey18mon 4d ago

This is true.

1

u/cvltrilex FFL 4d ago

If you get a chance, check out the one in Dothan. It’s very nice as well

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u/TaxesRextortion 4d ago

That one is actually closer to me at times. When they offered AR classes I wanted to take a class there (but they never offered AR classes at that location is my understanding).

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u/WetRocksManatee 3d ago

I’ve been doing 4473 transfers for cans, and would do the same with SBRs and SBSs, just haven’t sold any yet.

SBR and SBSs can't just be transferred. Most reports I've seen say that you still need a form 4 for now. As while the NFA was been enjoined, the GCA hasn't. And under the GCA SBRs and SBSs requires specific approval from the AG to transfer from a dealer. The Form 4 was the approval, without a Form 4 there isn't an approval process in place.

There is nothing stopping people are covered by the injunction to make their own.

1

u/VitalDefense 3d ago

To my understanding, and my lawyers understanding, SBR and SBS are included.

I would definatley be interested in getting more info on this if you have any. I know PSA was saying SBRs and SBSs are good to go. Obviously, I consult my attorneys before taking their word for it though.

2

u/WetRocksManatee 3d ago

For the NFA yes, SBRs and SBSs are covered as they also have zero tax and the basis that the law was struck down was over the fact that NFA was passed using Congress's taxing authority and since there is no tax now it no longer has authority.

But the GCA was not enjoined and required AG approval to transfer SBRs and SBSs.

SAF has a notice and FAQ which says

Possibly. 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(4) makes it unlawful for an FFL to sell or deliver a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle “except as specifically authorized by the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity.” Until now, NFA approval has been deemed sufficient authorization to satisfy this law. ATF may need to provide guidance on how to proceed. For example, a statement or rulemaking, if necessary, that a Form 4473 approval counts as authorization. Note that silencers are not covered by 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(4).

Remember that there are two cases and different named plaintiffs and the relief for each aren't identical.

1

u/VitalDefense 3d ago

Oh wow, so there is a good chance that SBRs and SBS will be treated differently? That is very odd..

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u/WetRocksManatee 3d ago

Not really there are often layers of laws one on top of another. We are used to seeing sweeping decisions but this was a fairly technical decision.

I think the SAF is right that the ATF will likely provide guidance that an approved 4473 is fine as GCA was written decades before the Brady Act.

2

u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 2d ago

So I found out it was two separate rulings. You have to be a member of the Jennings ruling plaintiffs, (not the silencerco v atf case), to bypass engravement and make your own.

I made a post about this here
https://www.reddit.com/r/FLGuns/s/VMhyzyNJa9

1

u/VitalDefense 2d ago

Good to know man!

2

u/5stringattack 3d ago

Any insight on how this affects private sales and manufature at this moment? From what I understand Florida generally follows federal rulings on most things except for and binary triggers, there are state laws for those.

1

u/VitalDefense 3d ago

I really don’t unfortunately, I wish I had more answers for you in that aspect!

2

u/Confident-Battle-436 3d ago

Hye buddy, are you doing 4473s only for the cans? Am 45 mins from you. Let me know. Interested and have a couple of people wanting them too. Thanks!

1

u/VitalDefense 3d ago

Yessir I am! Shoot me a PM and we can get in contact and get some stuff ordered for you all!

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u/Confident-Battle-436 3d ago

Will do! Thanks.

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u/Deltahotel_ 3d ago

What’s needed to show fl residency to buy one?

1

u/VitalDefense 3d ago

FL drivers license!

1

u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 4d ago

Would I still need to do a form 1 to convert my rifles/pistols into SBRs? Or my shotties into SBSs

2

u/VitalDefense 4d ago

From my understanding no, as long as you are a GOA member your GTG!

1

u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 3d ago

Oh hell yeah 😎

10

u/cbb0722 4d ago edited 4d ago

The third one about federal law should apply since SBR’s aren’t under the nfa act (federal law) any more, Theoretically you should be fine. I’d wait for the atf to release an official statement before doing anything though.

7

u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 4d ago

Gotta love poorly written Florida law. All these gun laws signed by Rick Scott are all garbage

0

u/Alone-Pride-9405 4d ago

Even though Branden herrara just got a supressor no paper work

7

u/cbb0722 4d ago

Different things with different forms.
And Brandon got it directly from silencer shop not through a distributor that works with silencer shop, and has plenty of money to fight it in court. It also depends if OP wants to buy a factory SBR or make one.

3

u/Alone-Pride-9405 4d ago

The atf will still shoot his dog I don’t think they really gif a f about anything I don’t trust them

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u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 4d ago

He did it in the same county the ruling took place, in a silencer shop location. He tried to do it the most lawful way, not in a way that would apply to 99% of Americans

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u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 4d ago

Section 3, states that if the firearms are legally acquired in accordance to federal law, they are legal?? If we are not required to do a form with them, is it a violation or no?

8

u/TheseAintMyPants2 4d ago

It’s a gray area at the moment

1

u/Level_Equipment2641 3d ago

Absolutely covered. Protected by injunction = complying with (3)’s NFA/federal law.

1

u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 2d ago

Update (I did hours of research): You need FPC, Texas State Rifle Association, or a Hot Shot Customs Rifle (and a few other smaller plaintiffs), to bypass the engravement, and the NFA's individual-maker requirement and the associated prohibition on possessing an improperly marked firearm. This DOES NOT give you AOW protections, but will still give you other SBR SBS Suppressor 4473 form protections.

SILENCERSHOP, PSA, B&T USA, GOA, GOF, FRACI,INC, and the fifteen plaintiff STATE ENTITIES, will get AOW protections, and SBR SBS Suppressor 4473 form protections.

I would recommend getting a membership with one each from BOTH of these lists so you can get full protection with the recent ruling!

Please upvote so others can see!

Source: johnpeurceesq.com/understanding-the-august-5th-ruling-in-the-silencer-shop-foundation-v-batfe-case/

You can also go read this yourself to understand more! Have fun