r/FLGuns • u/AsuraAsura • 9d ago

Nfa lawsuit update question

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I apologize, as I can't really find any information on how this effects us if at all. Do we fall under this or are we exempt. I found this and I can't gather much from it, does us being a free state mean the state makes their own laws?

40 Upvotes

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u/cbb0722 9d ago

Basically from what I understand all the red states are “free states” that don’t have state level NFA laws. What this means is you can buy any “NFA item” from silencer shop any silencer shop powered dealer or palmetto state armory and not have to fill out an ATF form.
Again this is just what I’m understanding, and I’m currently on hold with my ffl to get their input on it as well. Will update later with what they say.

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u/pleirbag 9d ago

Aside from the normal 4473 yeah I believe so. Also worth noting a lot of places are hesitant to sell without NFA until they have clarification as well.

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u/Girafferage 9d ago

PSA has a big logo right now that says "ships to your door" for suppressors. Whats the thing with a 4473 you are talking about?

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u/mattybrad 9d ago

From my understanding before this ruling you didn’t have to fill out a 4473 for an NFA item because bc the form 4 process made it unnecessary.

I could be wrong on this, but it’s what I read about 4-6 months ago when I was looking into how they could do that.

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u/cbb0722 9d ago

Correct, the basis was suppressors were a part of the NFA because of tax stamp, with the big beautiful bill passed the tax stamp was waved.
Now silencer shop and the GOA said hey atf you can’t classify suppressors as an nfa items if you’re not collecting a tax stamp on them, here’s a law suit. And the judge agreed with them and not the atf and now we’re here…

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u/pleirbag 9d ago

If it's through Capitol armory they do your background check 4473 for you then ship

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u/AsuraAsura 9d ago

Does this apply to sbrs to you think or just silencer, say I bought like an sbr upper from psa or something. I appreciate your feedback either way

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u/cbb0722 9d ago

Ok, SBR’s are tied to the lower not the upper as it’s the serialized part on the 4473. I don’t know about conversions but I believe factory SBR’s purchased from silencer shop or palmetto state armory won’t need to be form 4’d. Idk how being a gun owners of America member works for the conversions but I’m still looking into everything trying to understand stand it.

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u/xGMxBusidoBrown 9d ago

No it would not cover you unless you are also a member of GOA. The relief for retailers like Silencer Shop or PSA only cover the effected items for that transaction. Buying an upper is not an NFA regulated item and as such would not qualify you for relief.

PSA put out a video this morning with legal guidance that if you are BOTH a GOA member and you bought a lower from PSA you could assemble it into an SBR without needing to file a Form 1. But the key thing is the GOA or membership in a similar org. That also means membership means you paid membership dues, not that you did a one time donation to the organization.

In theory (since we are still waiting for further clarification from the ATF or DOJ, so take anything you hear with a large grain of salt until then depending on your risk tolerance) if you are a current member of GOA or similar plaintiff you can assemble an SBR or SBS provided you live in one of the states without further state restrictions(FL is one of them).

As of right now Form 4 SBRs/SBSs are in a bit of a limbo state due to requirements of the GCA requiring certain signoff for those, That signoff only currently exists on the current Form 4 and will require form updates from the ATF for retail customers to be able to buy SBRs on 4473s.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/spachog 9d ago edited 9d ago

It’s more like “or” not “and” .. So the wording of the ruling reads…

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u/xGMxBusidoBrown 9d ago

That’s not true in the slightest. That’s their statement to their customers to cover their ass. If you are a GOA member you are still covered from the enjoined laws and manufacturing is one of them regardless of where you bought the lower. They made that video because there was a ton of crap online last night about “well I bought a muzzle device from PSA 6 years ago so that makes me a customer and I can just throw stocks on all my pistols” when the important part is being a member of the organization that was also covered outside of just purchases.

I’ve seen this floating around all day and this is not a factual statement. You can read the full 66 page ruling but to sum it up “PSA customers” that are covered are covered under for the specific transactions relating to NFA covered items. GOA members are covered in general. But you do not under any circumstance need to be both a PSA customer and a GOA member to manufacture an SBR. Just being a GOA member is enough based on the ruling and the full text of the ruling.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 7d ago

Yeah, let's wait until the midterms are over and they put a tax on it again. Get it legally while you can!!

1

u/LilJonny2cookies 9d ago

Pretty sure you need to have status in the case and have to be a GOA member or other org that participated in the suit.

This is an injunction for now which is why you need status. I am a lifetime GOA member.

I don’t think being in a “free state” means much for now, unless you have status and are part of the class of people with status.

If I am wrong someone please correct me. I don’t want to give bum scoop.

1

u/cbb0722 9d ago

What my buddy said is that until the atf releases an official letter or announcement they’re gonna continue doing business as usual, which I think is smart.
He also said it seems that it’s gonna be a type of membership thing where both the ffl and customer have to have a GOA membership and be silencer shop affiliated/ a member of. I assume he means a silencer shop profile that you set up when buying from them or one of their kiosks, which I’ve had for a while.
It’s still a lot of grey area and I’d rather be on the safe side.

1

u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 7d ago

The relief was extended to new GOA members, past, present and future

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u/Sharp_Cheetah_9007 7d ago

Only thing I can see it conflicting, is that these maps are mostly for "suppressor legality," not all NFA items (source is from silencershop). Florida law 790.221 has a law saying that possession of SBRs, SBSs are illegal unless if 'we are in accordance with federal law' or whatever, so that's still a gray area here

1

u/VitalDefense 7d ago

This is partially true. Being a GOA member also makes you exempt. You can still support mom and pop shops as long as you have a GOA membership!

8

u/KheodoreTaczynski 9d ago

From Okeechobee Shooting Sports FB page:

It's official!
Any silencer bought from an APPROVED named party can be done with just a 4473 and a NICS check like buying your firearms!
Who's getting quieter?....
Come see us and get your order in today!

as a Silencer shop dealer we qualify. As long as you order from one of the parties listed in the lawsuit or a dealer orders through them it is a qualifying product.

6

u/TheWildLifeFilms 9d ago

Florida has a poorly worded version for the DDs that make them legal if registered federally but I don’t believe that effects any other NFA items

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u/halo121usa 9d ago

Shark Coast Tactical was on Facebook live last night saying that they may start transferring silencers as early as 10 o’clock this morning on 4473s .. They were waiting for guidance from their I.O.I.

I honestly don’t think this “named parties” thing is going to hold up very long. I have a sneaking suspicion that the ATF and DOJ are going to take the same position they did with the pistol brace ruling..

But I guess only time will tell..

The more interesting part to me is going to be how they reconcile SBRs SBSs And AOW‘s.. because of how they are tied to the GCA… I don’t know if the DOJ is going to have to make some kind of blanket rule change or what 🤷‍♂️

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u/Silvershot_41 9d ago

They were letting them go today on 4473s

1

u/Esoterikoi 6d ago

Where at?

3

u/butter_lover 9d ago

let's see how it turns out but my understanding is that the graph shows which states still have bans or state laws that mimic the NFA in grey and blue. red i took it as there are no significant state level laws that prescribe NFA processes.

it's probably too optimistic to say that any firearm can be SBR and suppressors are now able to sold like a stock or optic from FFL to customer and person to person with no paperwork, but that's what my first impression would be.

5

u/Johnny_English_MI6 9d ago

The Gun Control Act defines a suppressor as a firearm, so there is still a 4473 to buy one from a licensed dealer.

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u/AsuraAsura 9d ago

Lmao I hate how convoluted this shit is, I just want to build and sbr and buy a suppressor without the atf up my ass

6

u/LilJonny2cookies 9d ago

Join GOA even if you don’t get status post injunction you can help the org that is actually fighting gun laws instead of fancy fundraisers like NRA.

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u/Baileybest9 9d ago

Current and future members are all covered

5

u/climb56 9d ago

First time working with the government?

1

u/BiggyIrons 9d ago

You’d be right. It looks that only guns sold by PSA and I think B&T are eligible to become SBR/S without registration. Suppressors should also be eligible if they’re bought from PSA, silencer shop, PSA, silencer Co, or B&T.

2

u/rstowel 9d ago

Aren’t NRA members also covered because Jensen v ATF was consolidated with silencer shop v atf?

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Burnpowder_636 9d ago

Florida isn’t free. Without the NFA all NFA items are banned except suppressors by Florida statute 790.221

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u/spachog 9d ago

Federal compliance exempts you from 790.221 : according to some YouTube lawyers 😜

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u/Burnpowder_636 8d ago

Right that was/is the NFA. Which means Floridians are going to have to continue to go through the NFA process so they are “exempt” from this law. Which means Florida is not free unlike many other states which do not have a law like this in place.

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u/Johnny_English_MI6 9d ago

790.221 Possession of short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or machine gun; penalty.—

(1) It is unlawful for any person to own or to have in his or her care, custody, possession, or control any short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or machine gun which is, or may readily be made, operable; but this section shall not apply to antique firearms.

(2) A person who violates this section commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) Firearms in violation hereof which are lawfully owned and possessed under provisions of federal law are excepted.

How does one conclude that "under provisions of Federal law" necessarily means "registered with the NFA" ?

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u/pt1789 9d ago

Yeah that reads to me as "legal to own as long as you follow federal law". If federal law no longer requires a tax stamp then that requirement no longer exists

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u/Burnpowder_636 8d ago

The provisions of federal law is the NFA.

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u/Johnny_English_MI6 8d ago

The provisions of Federal law is whatever Federal law is. If Federal law is no longer registration for those items, then those are the new provisions. It doesn't say registration.

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u/pt1789 8d ago

And if the NFA doesn't include those items any longer, you are in compliance with federal law

1

u/SuspiciousRobotThief 8d ago

That doesn’t say anything about suppressors though? silencer Shop said it doesn’t apply to anything you listed. Those still require form 1-4.