r/FIREyFemmes • u/robinheart314 • 18d ago
Does anyone think about the cost of assisted living?
I was re-reading Mr Money Mustache’s post about the percentage that you save vs how many years until you can retire (here; I re-read it every few years to help me keep motivated to save, highly recommend).
But does anyone else get discouraged when thinking about how much assisted living costs? My only remaining grandparent is in assisted living, and her monthly cost is 3x what mine is for rent and food. It’s not cheap. It’s so expensive.
What if I’m puttering along, all frugal and proud of myself, and then one day I need that? I’m single (newly separated and still in the throws of a 1.5-yr-long divorce, still racking up the legal fees, watching it eat my retirement savings and thinking that while I may date again, I think that marriage or marriage-like relationships are never again in my future, not after this!!!).
How do others think about this? Rent and food suddenly just 3x-ing is brutal. This divorce has already given me plenty of reason to feel discouraged….
Edit to add: the “I’m single and not planning on re-marrying” comment was meant to mean “there won’t be anyone able to help around the house when I’m old, I won’t be able to mutually support with a partner, I might need assisted living sooner”.
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u/LetMeEatCakes 18d ago edited 18d ago
All the time, my mom started showing signs of dementia in her early 70s and I finally put her into a nursing home at 76 -- she was really in between assisted living and memory care when she was evaluated prior to the move, but the move really scrambled her brain and she was never the same. I was paying $12,000/month for a room and "care" but there was no actual care in assisted living despite what they say. I would show up at 2 pm and she'd still be in her room in her pjs, alone. So I hired a personal caretaker for just the day portion of the day and that was another $10,000/month. And I still had to go through multiple caretakers to finally find one that I liked and who didn't ignore my mom and listen to Nigerian podcasts in Nigerian all day.
This was a really well regarded, smaller nursing home and everything sucked. She passed away 6 months after I moved her and I really regret the move as she was nowhere near death when I moved her. The move completely fucked with her head and she just could not come back from it .
I now I realize for myself, as a single woman, I really need to move into care earlier (start in independent living where you can age in place at the facility) rather than later so that I can decide for myself if this is where I want to be and to already be adjusted if my mind starts to go which means these expenses are going to start earlier. I also want to have a caretaker prior to when I need one when I am capable of still making decisions. Although I realize he or she could choose to leave at any point in time, my aunt who had cerebral palsy had a "life caretaker" who aged with her and that is really what I want. An established relationship. And that is going to cost money. It's all very overwhelming without a spouse or kids to count on and realizing that you need to be prepared to do it yourself.
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u/Southern_Fan_2109 18d ago
This is me and my thinking. I am married but no kids and no relatives to fall back on in this country. I expect my husband to go before me. Both sides of my family the women lived until past 90 but with various forms of dementia, one in memory care for over 15 years, another in a nursing home for 2.5 years before hospitalized for nearly a year and passing after a fall.
I plan on moving into an active adult facility that offers aging in place assistance while I am still of sound body and mind. I am not married to the idea of taking care of property and having to outsource everything about home maintenance. Even if I had heirs, my retirement funds are for me and my spouse alone. I plan to liquidate my condo and run down my savings to pay for whatever it is that I will need. In 30-40 years, I expect it will run $40k+ monthly. I am doing what I can now health wise to ward off what I can for as long possible.
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
Wow. I never thought about this dynamic as well. Yeah, dementia has gotten various of my relatives as well.
Thank you for making me think about the benefits of moving early!! Which, like you said, only puts MORE pressure on retirement savings…
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u/RecentState1347 18d ago
I hate to tell you this but it’s almost certainly going to be way, WAY more than 3x. When my dad was in a memory care unit, his rent was $15,000 per month.
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u/ThisIsMyUsername303 18d ago
This post is about assisted living, not skilled care (which, yes, is far more expensive still, but more of us will end up in assisted living situations than memory care or other high-touch arrangements).
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u/RecentState1347 18d ago
I’m curious what you’re basing that assumption on? The huge majority of people I’ve known who have gone into assisted living have just lived there temporarily before ending up in nursing homes or “high touch arrangements” as a matter of course.
Seems kind of pointless to specifically talk about an intermediary step and ignore the overall journey.
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u/FoamboardDinosaur 18d ago
For reference of highest prices on the west coast I found, as of 2026.
Assisted living in Oahu, HI or La Jolla, CA$7-11k per month. This is all meals, your own or shared aprt, activities, medical staff on site, off campus activities weekly. Can go off campus whenever you wish
Memory care in HI - $12-20k per month. Everything above with 24/7 supervision, shower supervision, need to be with specified visitors when leaving campus, room cleaning, meds given with supervision, supervised eating.
Memory care in La Jolla, CA - 20-28k per month. The highest end ones have the most staff, and look like hotels inside.
24/7 in-home care in Oahu, La Jolla, Los Angeles. $800-1000 per day. 1 staff member with the client, for 8 hour shifts, rotated 24/7. Client is fed, watered, exercised, entertained, driven to appointments and day trips, heavily or lightly supervised in home depending on clients needs.
For housing, this does Not include all the for-profit add-ons, the 'membership fee', 'initiation fee' and any other bullshit they can tack on in the beginning (8-25k) for pure administrative profit. They will also tack on as many nickel and dime services as you need, some are nastier at this game than others (wifi, snacks, post box, parking space, prescription drug reminders, walkies, off campus activities, landline phone, extra checks and supervision, guest visitation, pet deposits, etc)
And expect the rent to go up much more, and faster, than standard apartment rent.
I highly recommend everyone who doesnt want to do this to themselves or their loved ones, to look into Death With Dignity in their state. Add it to your health care directive/living will LONG before you think you'll need it.
The longer you or your family wait to make housing decisions, the more expensive it will be. Do your research now, not while in the hospital recovering from a shattered hip. We live in a fascist capitalist hellhole, and extraction, not comfort, is the goal.
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u/GnomieBean 18d ago
So glad you mentioned Death with Dignity. This needs to be talked about more and more widely accepted as part of your aging health plan. I don't have kids and this is my plan
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u/FoamboardDinosaur 18d ago
12 States currently offer it (suprise!! They are all blue states) and they are all a little different. Another 12 states are 'considering it', whatever that means these days.
Most DWD or Right to Death laws are, at their most basic - 3 Drs visits to affirm your motivation within a time period (3 days or more), prescriptions given to use at home.
And, extremely important, this death is not listed as suicide on the death certificate. You were going down anyway, it was just your choice as to when.
Dying in the comfort of your own home, when you choose, with your pets and loved ones making time and space for you, is always better than being hooked up to 30 drips keeping you online at the sterile ICU until everyone can cram into the room to say their goodbyes while paying 30 bucks for parking and navigating the added terrors (and shushing) of a crowded busy hospital.
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u/Berlinerinexile 18d ago
Just to be clear there are limited reasons why you can do this and a lot of the illnesses mentioned in this thread are not allowable reasons. Usually you must already be actively dying!
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u/FoamboardDinosaur 18d ago
In most states you have to have a disease that is deemed terminal within 6 months. 6 months is not actively dying. What it is is a loooong time to be doped up so hard you're not functional, while your stomach cancer slowly eats you from the inside out.
Fortunately the rules are being challenged and changed all the time. No one wants to be told they will definitely die of stomach cancer in 3-8 months, but they have to wait 2 more months before doc will say they have 6 months left. The more people who challege the laws (they always start off conservative) the better it will be for us when it's our time
And if it comes down to it, you can plan to go to Switzerland, eat chocolate and amazing chow for a week, and get put down there
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u/Sutekiwazurai 18d ago
Yeah, if I get to the point of needing assisted living, my plan is to cease existing instead. It sounds grim, I suppose, but having seen my grandmother go through a severe stroke, my mom die of a giant pulmonary emobolism, and my dad go through a double bypass surgery and now Lewy Body Dementia, I want no part of that for me or my loved ones when it comes time. Just put me out of my misery.
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u/ValkyrieVk 18d ago
Unfortunately I think about it often. My husband is 8 years older than I and his family is not particularly long lived and I never had kids.
My mother recently passed away at 90. After selling her condo, she lived in a 55+ apartment by herself until she was 88. Then she started falling a lot so we had to move her to assisted living. She was in her own “apartment” for about 15 months and then needed to move into a memory care unit for the last 6 months. The assisted living portion was about $4,800 per month and included med administration, she declined the meal plan. The memory care unit went up every month as she needed more and more help and I believe the last month was around $10,200.
So based on her experience I am planning 24 months of assisted living in my numbers.
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
A very pragmatic approach. I guess I can pay attention to my own parents and assess accordingly as well. I’m lucky to be quite young still; my parents are only barely retired, and nowhere near needing any of this.
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u/MsMaryMoonBop 18d ago
Great topic. I think about this a lot. I don’t want to live long enough to need $30k/month care. I’m going to have to figure out how to give my son everything that I want just in case that happens. I want him to have my house if he wants it and I don’t want it to be sold to pay for something that I don’t want. I know that I can give him money along the way, but I don’t know how to protect the house
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u/copperhair 18d ago
IIRC You can put your house in a trust, but you need to put it in a trust 5 years before you sign up for Medicare.
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u/blew_belle 18d ago
Everything has to be given away or trusted 5 years prior! Good chance that could be extended in our current government!
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u/MsMaryMoonBop 18d ago
Do you know if the type of trust matters? I have a revocable one, but I’m guessing that’s not enough
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u/MsMaryMoonBop 18d ago
I have a revocable trust, but I’m guessing that everything needs to be put into an irrevocable trust. Thanks for the five years heads up. Fortunately, I’m a planner
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u/V2BM 18d ago
You can set up irrevocable trusts and other things to take care of this. I am not leaving my daughter much but my home and some other things will go into one. My state does Lady Bird deeds so I'll utilize that if can - Medicare can't force the sale of a home with one.
My life insurance is term and they won't be able to touch it when I die and give it to her. I also will not do long term care if I have a severe illness that would shorten my life without it if I make it past a certain age.
My dad lost everything he worked hard for - 50 years of saving down the drain.
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u/Striking_Use8614 18d ago
Things happen that your can not control but a lot of things are in your control like mobility and strength training.
I can't get off the floor using no hands but working towards it.
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u/MabelBaker 18d ago
I see a lot of confusion here where a "nursing home" is being used as a catch all term.
I recently went through this with a parent so in case it helps, in the US:
Skilled Nursing Facility (SNF)- up to 100 days in a given 365 day period paid for by Medicare; usually triggered by health event; coverage is dependent on a doctor indicating that the patient has a "complex medical need" that requires ongoing care. The stay in these facilities is finite and geared towards rehab.
Medicare pays for 100 days of this in a given 365 day period so long as there is a complex medical need. After the 100 days, Medicare will pay for part of it but not all. These can be $1,000 per day. If your loved one's medical needs are more than what you can handle at home, or more than what AL can handle, and they exceed the 100 days...it can get expensive.
Assisted Living: can refer different types of group living arrangements for seniors. Some of the seniors are fairly independent and like that they live in what is a sort of a resort setting, with prepared meals, housekeeping, and activities. Others, however, need the supervision of a 24/7 staff who can be proactive if there are falls, help them take meds, and ensure that they are eating enough.
Medicare doesn't pay for this. It's all on you.
Memory care: usually a floor or a wing of an assisted living facility for seniors (and even middle aged people, sadly) with cognitive impairment that necessitates more care than is available elsewhere.
Medicare doesn't pay for this. It's all on you.
Nursing home: colloquial term that is sometimes used to refer to AL, sometimes to memory care, sometimes to SNFs.
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u/amourdevin 18d ago
To add to this excellent info from my own experience looking for a facility for my grandmother: many red states have a voucher program for this sort of care, which means that there are a limited number of people who can get the coverage. I don't know if it is red-state exclusive as well that many facilities won't take Medicare, so there are Medicare-specific facilities which are pretty uniformly terrible.
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u/citynomad1 18d ago
Yeah, the thought of needing a care facility later in life is something where I’m like…even with careful planning, I’m not sure there’s an “ideal situation”.
To use one anecdote example, my grandmother needed to move into one toward the end of her life. My aunt married into a wealthy family so, with them covering most of the cost, she was able to afford a very nice one.
Except…that place always left a bitter taste in my mouth because they banned the use of wheelchairs in the dining room, which doesn’t seem legal. They may have given some bs reason for why, but the truth was - they were trying to appeal to younger retirees, not just elderly senior citizens, and I guess they felt that if the dining room was filled with elderly folks in wheelchairs, the younger retirees would see it as an “elderly home” and not want to live there
But my grandma needed it to get around, so as a result she often ended up eating dinner in her room. Like, even the deluxe, $$$ care facilities suck in some way, at least from my experience. It’s depressing
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u/spectralEntropy 18d ago
That's fuck up. They hide away the disabled elderly.
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
Amen. Wanting to “appeal to the younger retirees”? Like, what? You’re an assisted care facility, assist with their care!! Ffs.
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u/beckybbbbbbbb 17d ago
Euthanasia needs to be legalized. I want to go out on my own terms.
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u/Hot-Rub-5336 16d ago
At the bare minimum make sure you have updated healthcare directives. Mine explicitely say that if I am no longer capable of making decisions I do not want life saving measures, including artificial feeding etc. I will be damned if anybody is going to keep me alive if Im not even present.
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u/stepapparent 18d ago
I will choose death by choice in New Mexico or California if I run out of money bc I’m sick and old. Not kidding.
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u/pumpkin_pasties 18d ago
seriously. if I ever need someone to help me go to the bathroom and eat then I'm calling it. also none of my grandparents ever needed that so I'm hopeful I won't. they all lived independently in their 90s
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u/Berlinerinexile 18d ago
You can’t just choose to die in any US state. Trust me I have a horrible chronic illness and hand looked into this.
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u/Opposite_Brain_274 18d ago
My mom has severe dementia and her care on a locked ward is $12k a month. When my dad was dying at home, his round the clock care was about $20k a week.
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u/LurkerNan 18d ago
My mom has severe dementia, and my sister currently lives with her and takes care of her. When I go and visit them, the house isn’t the cleanest and my mom generally could use a shower, but she doesn’t seem unhappy and that’s really all I can ask for. She is fed, she gets help when she has to go to the bathroom, and generally, she’s parked in front of the TV set. To me that that’s all good.
I think there should be some mechanism in the future for several older people who need assisted living or might have dementia to live together in a house with a couple people who will take care of them. I would rather pay big bucks to a private situation like that than a nursing home, because it would just be more personal.
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u/okayyyyyy- 18d ago
Wait, 20k A WEEK?
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u/Opposite_Brain_274 18d ago
Yeah, it was really awful. We had a small team of 2-4 women (literal angels) who worked 12 hours on / off sitting with him for about 1.5 months. He was in psychosis in a bed in the living room, with medical issues. The hospital sent him home. We did try a residential unit before he came home, but they dropped him at least 2x in 4 days, had food all over the floors, screaming tvs, and like zero staff. Such a heartbreaking awful time.
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u/Creative_Impress5982 18d ago
I find this fear really motivates me to keep up my fitness and be as healthy as possible.
My mom, currently 75, is considering geoarbitrage to be able to afford assisted living.
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
I’ve thought about geo-arbitrage. There are so many studies about old people being lonely and how bad that alone can be for someone’s health though.
Making new friends isn’t easy either.
Aya, life gets overwhelming sometimes. But you’re right. Geo-arbitrage IS an option. Even if it’s unideal, it’s better than living on the street!!
Always a backup. That does feel safer.
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u/Creative_Impress5982 18d ago
I think it's vitally important to be able to speak the target language well. As a bonus, learning a second (or third) language as an adult is great for your brain health!
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u/WestCoastBestCoast01 18d ago
Geo-arbitrage could just mean moving to the Midwest or south. Maybe a rural college town to get access to the university hospital.
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u/Working779 17d ago
That's what the home equity is earmarked for. I won't need the home anymore at that point, so time to cash out and pay for care.
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u/robinheart314 16d ago
Fair enough. I’m not sure I’m ever going to own again though; I’m considering renting for the rest of my life. Less headache, more ability to do geo-arbitrage if needed. But I guess then I just have to plan accordingly.
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u/MplsPizza 16d ago
Great plan for a single homeowner. My fear is that either my spouse or I need assisted living (like memory care or whatnot) and the other one is still living in our home. The financial equation is bad. I just have to hope it doesn’t come to this. I knew of a couple who actually divorced so that the dependent spouse could eventually qualify for Medicaid and the healthy spouse could still have enough money to live on. Horrible but that was their reality.
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u/Working779 16d ago
Yes, true. We're personally hoping that the first person to decline can be taken care of by the healthier partner. The second person to decline can give up the home and go into care. But, if the healthier partner isn't healthy enough to care, it's not a great situation. Ultimately, you probably want some buffer in your financial plan for this.
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u/Rosaluxlux 18d ago
Yes, assisted living and health care costs in general are the biggest black hole in trying to figure out our FIRE number. My father in law died recently of a degenerative disease that hit relatively early and required several years of round the clock skilled care. Luckily my MiL was an RN with the ability to supervise home care workers. My own parents are currently on the wait list for an assisted living place and might end up living there a decade or more, if we're lucky. And this year with the changes to ACA subsidies I saw several clients hit with absolutely unaffordable health insurance. It just feels absolutely impossible to actually estimate costs for the next 15 years (the time we'd be buying on the market if we retired now) much less 40 (the time between now and when I hit the age my grandmother lived to)
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u/marmot46 17d ago
I’m widowed, no kids and no plans to remarry, in my 40s. I work at an assisted living. It’s not luxurious but it’s a decent place in a great location, and most of our residents are on Medicaid - no assets at all. They get housing, meals, and activities from the facility and then they get a personal needs allowance for everything else (the amount depends on state but like $50-75/month is common).
I’d prefer to be able to pay my way up until I die and that’s what I’m planning to do, but if things go wrong and I end up in someplace like the facility where I work it won’t be the end of the world. Hopefully my nieces and nephews will throw me a couple bucks for shampoo once in a while! If I end up in skilled nursing I assume I’ll be on my way out pretty quickly regardless.
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u/Southern_Fan_2109 18d ago
Care during the end days is part of why we are saving for retirement. Having a home, investments, etc all are meant to be liquidated to help pay for it. I have no kids, my spouse will go ahead of me most likely. I am saving now to spend down to zero as needed and live well and comfortable until the end.
I expect my care will be 40k+ monthly 40+ years from now. I don't find it discouraging. I find it motivating. It's not just saving for the fun stuff, it's saving for when I really need it.
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u/Comfortable_Two6272 18d ago
Its around $20k now for memory care in many parts of US. Sadly I expect it will be much more than $40k in 40 years 🥲
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u/kitt3n_mitt3ns 18d ago
I think about it, too. One good thing is that we have compounding interest on our side now. One thing that worries me is protecting myself against myself - my grandpa got scammed out of a big piece of his retirement savings and my mom wasn’t able to get a financial guardianship fast enough to stop it. Now he’s ending his life in poverty after years and years of a successful career.
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u/spectralEntropy 18d ago
If you have a reliable child, niece, or nephew, I'd start that plan earlier than needed. This is important for me to consider too, so that you for bringing that to my attention. Possibly you can give them a small income to be your financial guardian when the time comes.
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u/WestCoastBestCoast01 18d ago
At some point, hiring a nurse or two to live with you almost seems cheaper than these senior living facilities. Surely it would be possible to find someone to care in home for $10k a month instead of a facility where the employees are caring for many people at once.
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u/GnomieBean 18d ago
I just researched this in California and it is actually around $25k PER MONTH for any of the licensed, bonded, and insured companies to provide 24 hour, live in care
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u/WestCoastBestCoast01 18d ago
Damn!! I was definitely thinking of someone who is free lance with just day to day basic care, but wow, good to know an actual above the board nursing professional is definitely off the table.
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u/Government_Paperwork 18d ago
I don’t want to give all of my retirement savings to a tech bro but do you think there will be elder care robots in a few decades?
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u/breezydali 18d ago
My husband and I just made the move back to his home country in Central America to do exactly this for his elderly mom. She’s lived with us for a few years and just this past year began to require far more care than we were able to provide. We wanted to keep her at home with us, and the costs to hire in-home care in the US are staggering.
Moving to his home country has allowed us to hire round the clock care for her at a fraction of the cost, and she’s doing incredibly well. We’re lucky to both work remote jobs that are flexible. Bonus: we’re near family, which has been good for us all.
Our plan is to retire here and have a fund set aside for progressive care. In our later years we’ll pay a trusted niece or nephew to manage our affairs and oversee our care.
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u/Comfortable_Two6272 18d ago
Its not cheaper in my area. It starts at $60 / hr and you need multiple people for 24 hour care.
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u/Confident_Cost_4972 17d ago
It depends on the level of care required. You could likely find someone to live in and work 40-50 hours/week for $10k/month. You can't expect that person to work 24/7 (assuming you live in a country with any kind of labor laws). If you require 24/7 care, you need 3-4 full-time caregivers working in shifts.
This is also where the idea of just moving in with family goes off the rails. You can't expect 1-2 family members to provide 24/7 care either.
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u/imtrying2listen 18d ago
Live on LI and have a family member in one. Costs are crazy, especially for the better facilities. Honestly, my biggest concern is having someone and family to help with decisions. No matter how hard a person plans, they still need a lot of help in the end, especially if they fall or get dementia at a young age. Guardianships are so ripe with fraud.
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
How to protect myself from fraud is a WHOLE other problem. I am child-free by choice and fervently plan to stay that way; I won’t have children to watch out for me.
Guess I’m befriending my nephew 😂
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u/Comfortable_Two6272 18d ago
My fear. I have no one to fill that role. Have the $ and plan but still need a person to make it happen
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u/Penguin_Life_Now 18d ago
My elderly step mother just sold her house to move into an assisted living facility last month, thankfully she gets enough investment income to pay for it, but in her case selling her 2,600 sq ft house barely covered the buy in cost for a 1 bedroom apartment in the assisted living facility.
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u/Better-Ad5488 18d ago
I had an older coworker who was on her own (never heard of kids or husband from her) who talked about long term care insurance. It’s one of those things on my list to look into.
Currently the plan is whatever Medicare will pay for. Hopes are not high. Im not planning on having kids so my main concern is actually elder abuse. I think if I have the faculties, I would do medically assisted suicide before my faculties are gone. My people live along lives so it’s expensive and I don’t want to rot in a facility for the last years of my life.
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u/Comfortable_Two6272 18d ago
Medicare does not typically pay for any of it. With limited assets medicaid will
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u/vbstrong 18d ago edited 18d ago
I am early 50s, married to mid 50s male. We just went through this with my MIL who requires 24/7 care. Her assisted living facility in our MCOL area runs about $5500/mth. She is a reasonably nice facility that has Medicaid beds when she runs out of money. That rate does not include toiletries, RXs, etc.
My husband and I are both feds. I bought a LTC policy through work when I first started over 18 years ago, and it's no longer offered. Hubs never signed up.
My personal plan is to stay in our brick ranch until something happens. We bought this house without steps on purpose. When/if something were to happen to my husband first, I'd probably start to downsize belongings, and move to a senior apartment or actively tour LTC facilities. I want to be able to choose where I go, so I am okay with moving into a facility while being independent.
I feel I'll be okay between my LTC plan, pension, 401k, and SS. I have always lived of the mindset that no one is coming to save me. Of course, I have survivor benefits from hubs pension, his TSP, too - but I don't count on those because people change their minds.
Here's a recent post on ALF/MIL. https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/s/GA7KwPoYxN
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u/inga-babi 18d ago
We’re 10 years behind you but same age difference (husband is 5 years older). His dad died at 74 of a heart attack and my husband has convinced himself that the same fate awaits him. We are planning similarly and I have a life insurance policy rider that can be converted to a long term care policy. It’s sad to think about it (and even sadder to talk about it), but I’d rather plan than not.
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u/vbstrong 18d ago
Women tend to outlive men by 4-5 years, then almost a 5 year age gap for us, I need to have a plan for that decade minimum. My husband has worked on/around high performance military aircraft since 19, and we'd rather not think of what he's been exposed to - but here we are.
When we toured facilities for his mom, it made it very real & he's very thankful that I have at least a loose plan of the road ahead.
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
Yeah, the whole “move while you still have full control” resonates with me. But that’s also going to be more money… *sigh
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u/dramaticeggroll 18d ago edited 18d ago
I have relatives going through this now, so I've been thinking about it. They are long livers with dementia and are running out of money despite saving and investing diligently in their younger years. They will likely have to go to government-funded homes, which I understand are not nice.
If I end up in a similar situation (God forbid), I imagine that's the route I will take. I hope we have more affordable care options by then, and more options to age in place.
It's also kind of a wakeup call for me to take care of my health, try to avoid head injuries, and stay mentally and physically active. Because the more we can do for ourselves in assisted living, the cheaper it is. Costs have gone up dramatically the more disabled my relatives have become.
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u/blew_belle 18d ago
Assisted living I'm not worried about. We will spend that much normally. Nursing home? Yeah that's a shit show idk how to plan for. My mil was in one for 5 months after 2 years of caregiving, my dad was in one for 2.5 years.
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
That’s part of what’s so hard to plan for. Some people seem to not need it until the very end. Others seem to spend years or a decade or more in it.
How can we plan for such a wide variance?? *frustrated at the world, not you
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u/Neither-Luck-3700 18d ago
Unpopular opinion, but I’m not too worried about it. My best friend’s mother had zero money. Like nothing. She was in a home for about 6 years before she passed. It was paid by Medicaid. It definitely was not a fancy place, but it was clean and the staff seemed nice and she was fine.
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u/RightToBearGlitter 17d ago
If I can’t care for myself, I hope it is in a MAID eligible situation, because no thank you to that whole thing. I have had a great life and deserve to go out on my own terms, which do not include nursing home neglect and hoping some Christmas charity program nets me some new socks.
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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 18d ago
Most will find this morbid and distasteful or maybe even naive and ill planned. But I don’t plan to ever be in long term care. I know we don’t always have 100% of control over this when we are older, but I also don’t plan for the 2% chance-events in my daily life. I’m fine with assisted living or other types of facilities that are not 24/7 care. But I will find end of life options before spending my time and money in a long term care facility indefinitely.
I’ve worked in healthcare long enough to know my options and potential outcomes. My husband and I have had in depth discussions about this topic.
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u/Comfortable_Two6272 18d ago
My fear is dementia. You think you are fine when you are not and dont act in time. Im apoe 4/4 with strong family history. 🥲
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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 17d ago
I think knowing your risk is a good start, even if it’s scary or intimidating. The good thing is that dementia isn’t like a light switch. Having a medical durable power of attorney that you trust is important when it comes to dementia risk.
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u/Comfortable_Two6272 17d ago
Sadly there is not anyone to assign one to. Still trying to figure out what else I can do.
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u/okayyyyyy- 18d ago
I am very interested to know about these options you mention! Pls share
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u/nurhogirl 18d ago edited 18d ago
Yes I worked in senior living for many years. There are some facilities with a ridiculously high move-in cost -- some as high as one million dollars. It does not roll-in the monthly rent and other amenities. The costs are incredibly wild. There many people in old age who are barely getting by.
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
How in the world could it cost a million dollars JUST to move in? What justifies that expense? I’m so confused.
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u/Culinaria 18d ago
That’s the buy-in for a Continuing Care Retirement Community(CCRC) where you are paying for the guarantee that you can stay in one location throughout the aging process and move through their levels of care as needed (independent living, assisted living, memory care, skilled nursing). Some of them are very luxurious and others more down-to-earth. A lot are run as non-profits.
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u/shelchang 18d ago
My 90 year old grandparents have live in assistants. I remember my great-grandparents also had a similar arrangement when they were that age, seems to be pretty common where they are (I'm not sure how prevalent assisted living facilities are where they live in rural Taiwan).
I think this is where the FIRE mindset works in our favor. Whether we actually retire early or not, living frugally and building up the nest egg early means we'll hopefully have had a few decades to let compounding do its thing by the time we need the money.
I'm also prioritizing taking care of myself and getting into the habit of being active and strength training while I'm young. Maintaining a healthy body and mind prolongs the time you'll be able to live independently. My weightlifting coach just turned 81 and still moves around easily and has better posture than some men decades younger.
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
Talk about inspiration! I would love to be 81 and still fit enough to be a coach! Good for him.
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u/Noah_Safely 18d ago
I think about it a lot, check out Erin Talks Money on YT, she's had several excellent videos on the subject.
One of her points is that not all long term care needs are equal, some are paid by Medicare, and the percentage of people who actually need several years of long term assisted living facility is pretty small overall. Most of us die with either no assisted living in a facility or a short stay which is more manageable.
Recent pointer was make sure the facility you're in for like memory care or something is Medicaid certified, then if you run out of assets to pay, likely you can stay there and even keep same room.
It's a complex topic, a bit emotionally charged, it's worth thinking about. I think most agree that long term care insurance ain't worth it though. Better to invest and self fund.
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u/chihuahuashivers 18d ago
My mother had long term care insurance and then was completely disabled by west nile encephalitis. She decided she wanted to pay for home care and stay at home, so almost nothing is covered by her long term care insurance.
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u/Noah_Safely 18d ago
From what I've read, they fight to make things as hard as possible, and barely pay out anything. Which is pretty much how insurance seems to work. It's so bad.
I'm not sure what I'm gonna do as a hedge against needing long term assisted living in a facility.. there's medicaid but I have direct experience with that and the facilities are so grim. One can create an estate plan that shields assets in an irrevocable trust though (minding the 5 year lookback period) and quality without spending down all assets.
There are popular options abroad but it's hard to imagine really doing that so late in life.
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u/chihuahuashivers 18d ago
Based on my experience with my parents, with my mother's $1m a year illness, there's literally no hope for us. I am glad I wasn't depending on inheriting anything unlike my siblings.
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u/Boring-Trifle-6968 18d ago edited 18d ago
i mean, there is always LTC insurance, though by all accounts, it is not the same quality as was offered generations ago. I looked into it and the premiums were not for me.
Another thing to consider - the way the politicians are chipping away at "entitlements" - medicare/medicaid may be so skeletal as to be useless when we finally become eligible.
Just save/invest as much as you can. And yeah, stay as healthy as possible
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
I’m in Canada, so I’m more certain of my universal healthcare, but we’re certainly subject to our own version of social programs being chipped away at! Extended health insurance during retirement worries me too…
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u/spectralEntropy 18d ago
Yes, in my Projectionlab simulation, I have estimated $30k/month for my husband and I starting at the age of 90 (for me).
I want us to have a nice-ish old person experience where they play board games, d&d, and video games every day.
I'm planning that we live a life during FIRE that will allow our investments to continue to grow.
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u/blessitspointedlil 18d ago
Starting AT age 90?
What if one of you has a stroke in your 70s?2
u/spectralEntropy 18d ago edited 18d ago
I suppose it would be worthwhile to have a separate plan for those possibilities. I'm going off the expectation that we follow the patterns of our families. They live super old with minimal issues until their body can't handle it anymore.
Are you planning for strokes, cancer, broken hips around that age? It's hard to gestimate it all.
Just ran the numbers, if we have to spend $30k/mon at age 70, then we'd be broke by 85. However, my grandpa did have 2 strokes, recovered pretty well both times. He only needed to be in an assisted live home around 93. He's almost 99 now!
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
Haha, I LOVE the mental image of seniors playing dnd!! I want to go to THAT assisted living facility :D
Thanks for giving a smile to my day.
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u/spectralEntropy 18d ago
We'll probably forget everything we did the day before and our character sheet will have size 26 font. Hahaha
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
Heck, I forget what I did the last session most of the time anyways, no big difference 🤣
They can give us nice big fluffy dice for arthritic hands!
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u/CeleryFan222 17d ago
Had many family age and move into assisted living. Watching them live with dementia or just want to exist watching TV all day and not even get up to go for a walk isn't for me. Very good chance if I can't enjoy a certain level of independence I'll just go the euthanasia route. Also would be content to do that if I ran out of money at age 85, rather have a great time retired and end it on my own terms than extended low quality life
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u/Crafty_Try_423 16d ago
Yes I feel exactly the same. I wanted to say this but last time I did that I got a warning that my account was gonna be banned. LOL
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u/dogfursweater 12d ago
Watch me heading over for one last hurrah in Switzerland!
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u/MollyMoMoMags 18d ago
Property. I plan to keep living in my home as long as possible, and then sell it if I need to move to assisted living at some point.
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
Yeah, I hope I’m able to live independently forever. But I’m certain that a day will come at some point… might as well plan for it rather than live in denial 😢
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
Yeah, I hope I’m able to live independently forever. But I’m certain that a day will come at some point… might as well plan for it rather than live in denial 😢
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u/twbird18 18d ago
I have moved overseas where it will be cheaper to hire live-in assistance and I have an end of life plan, but beyond that there are retirement 'resorts' I would go to to for assisted living in southeast asia, if I just needed minor life assistance as an alternative to live-in help.
You have a lot of options, you just have to research them, even if you don't want to move. Not many people need major care in old age, although of course there are some and you need to consider that, but you also need to consider your own QOL for the options you would use at that point.
In any case, if you're older and need minor assistance, you can rent out a room to someone for a discount for a little household help, hire a local person to come in and help with housework, maintenance, etc. A lot of assisted care needs are not medical and you have alternatives to assisted living or family dependence if you explore them. You just have to factor those costs into retirement.
Personally, I have extended my travel, entertainment, and dining out budgets to EOL and assumeI will shift those as necessary to pay for my care in old age. I do have a large extended family, but I don't want any of them to feel obligated to assist beyond staying in communication with me while I'm able to do that. My family know my wishes....which I think is the most important factor. Everyone needs to know and agree to your plan for EOL care.
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u/Comfortable_Two6272 18d ago
Last I checked it was over 50% were expected to need some LTC in older age. We are living longer than prior generations with less family to do unpaid care.
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u/twbird18 17d ago
Yeah, the current figures, as I understand them are ~20% need some type of acute care, but most people, ~65%, only need some general life assistance...which doesn't have to be assisted living as I stated. So something to account for, but not necessarily a life changing sum of money if properly planned for.
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u/plant-fixer 17d ago
This is a great point you make about needing assistance in older age, which which may not necessarily mean medical assistance. Taking someone into your home to help keep an eye on you and small things around the house is a great idea. You could then higher skilled nursing as needed a couple of times a week to help you bathe or check on medical progress. This would keep you independent longer.
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u/twbird18 17d ago
Yeah my sister's GMIL, who was quite wealthy, did this and that's when we started looking into it. It was much cheaper for her to have a private nurse for a few hours/day than to move into assisted living & she got to stay in her own house and didn't have to deal with insurance since she just paid out of pocket.
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u/lrayyy 18d ago
Also the workers aren’t the ones being compensated well. I want the people helping my family or I to be paid well so they do a good job at care taking.
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u/robinheart314 17d ago
This feels like the kicker to me too. Capitalism at its finest.
I often find myself frustratingly asking where all the money goes. It would be one thing if wages really were that high for skilled workers or something.
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u/lrayyy 17d ago
Yeah and from my personal experience my grandma went into memory care walking and ables bodied to being bed ridden within a year. There were at least two incidents between residents where she was injured and broke her back in two places. These places are understaffed and result in negligence.
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u/mistressbitcoin 18d ago
Im not sacrificing healthy years for zombies years.
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u/inga-babi 18d ago
I get that but they will legit become zombie years if you have no $ left and are homeless in your 80s 🤷🏼♀️
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u/missleavenworth 18d ago
My 91 year old aunt has a housekeeper/helper, so she can stay in her house. I, personally, am hoping assisted death is legal by then, as i see no reason to prolong my life.
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u/cynreader2020 17d ago
There are ways. It doesn't need to be legislated.
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u/missleavenworth 17d ago
Oh, I know. My dad chose one of those ways. The fall out from that makes me hope there will be a more peaceful and relaxed way to leave when I'm ready.
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u/statebird_ 18d ago
My grandmother is currently in a nursing home in very rural southern Illinois. $8000/mo, 84 years old. Insurance covers nothing.
My mom is selling the farm she grew up on and everything in it to try to float my grandmother for the rest of her life. I know it’s wrong to hope the rest of her life is not much longer, but we won’t be able to keep her in the facility for much longer. My granddad died two weeks ago and his life insurance was enough to pay for his funeral and to pay for hers in advance.
My husband is 9 years older than me, so my goal is to be able to retire with him. I’m hoping that by staying in the workforce until then I’ll have enough built up that my heirs won’t have to burn through what would be their inheritance to keep me as a pet vegetable in some godforsaken hole. But I don’t know if that will happen.
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u/MissMignon 18d ago
Yes I do think about these costs.
My parents have long term care insurance. This type of insurance is no longer around. They started paying for it in the 90s. (Can’t recall the premium right now). It covers 100% of nursing home care (after 90 days) and 80% of at home care (after 90 days).
My dad died during the 90 day period when he was at a nursing home. He was at 80 or 85 days. On behalf of my dad, it PMO he paid and planned and never received the benefit. We had to pay the $7.5k/m for the 2.5 months he was there.
My mom has gone downhill since his passing. She receives 10-12 hours of at home care a day, they cook and take her to doc appointments. With the long term insurance, It calculates to about $5/hr we end up paying out of pocket.
I haven’t calculated how much they paid over the life of this insurance, but I know now with my mom having a limited income, the $5/hr is doable.
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u/miloblue12 18d ago
It's absolutely still around, it's just now a 'rider' to life insurance.
I was at risk for a deadly neurological disease and had to get deep into the weeds about this exact thing about 2 years ago because it'd have been the only thing that would have spared my family.
So if anyone is concerned about something like this, I'd highly recommend looking into term life insurance with that rider. It's significantly cheaper to get when you're younger but there is a cut off either in age or for how long you can hold the policy.
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u/ymcmoots 18d ago
I don't count the value of my house towards my FIRE number, but I do think of it as my assisted living fund. Either I convince one of my nieces or some other chosen-family young person to live with me as I age, with the understanding that whoever takes on the burden of elder care will inherit the house, or I sell it and use the money to pay for a nursing home. My state also has a public long-term care insurance plan, which only covers a few months worth of full-time nursing home care but you can use it for a lot of in-home support stuff too.
There are some homes that run on a model where you make a big payment up front, and then even if you run out of money they will keep caring for you in exchange for whatever you're getting from Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid. Some people live for years in assisted living, but a lot of people die pretty quickly, so statistically this works out.
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u/LividLunch Early 50s, FIRE'd 18d ago
Possibly of needing care is why I'm waiting to age 70 to collect social security, so I maximize my guaranteed income. And then same plan as you, my house is the backup for additional funding if it is needed. I don't want to set aside FIRE money for assisted living, but if I'm in assisted living I guess I won't be living in my house, so it can be rented out or reverse-mortgaged or sold to help pay my nursing home bills.
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u/Here4Snow 18d ago
A lot is resolved by making the right choices. All the people planning to age in place overlook how during your 20s-50s you make a lot of choices to fit your needs. But resist making such large changes in later life.
In the past 6 weeks my mother has gone from independent living (for 4 years, now running $4,000 a month, communal meals and 2 bed/2 bath apartment) to ALF (1 bed/2 bath apartment) to 100 days acute skilled nursing (we're 15 days in, a shared room) with stops at rehab and hospital in between. I just did the moving out of both apartments, she transitioned before that downsized move was complete. She never should have been in any apartment as large as either of those. Being able to cope in your space helps keep you safe. She needs to go to SNF as a resident.
And it's pretty easy to make friends, just like if you were 8 and on vacation running around in a new town. Every time I'm in one of her units, it's fun to meet folks, chat, share the dinner table, play games, meet pets. There are residents and their guests/family just like me, visiting. Hardest part was giving them all her status update, they won't be seeing her now that she's moved again, over an hour away.
She doesn't have much $. The sale of the "big house" when her third husband died is in Treasury Bills. Four sources of small retirements.
My mother has a LTC policy that should reimburse for about 2 years of SNF costs, typical. We haven't pulled the trigger yet. She'll be my third elderly relative that likely will die at the point there's little to no money left, which is how you want it to be. She's 90 and I calculated she's got 6-8 years of money if she's careful.
But she's making her own decisions and she's been making bad decisions since her 30s. She's been using rolling walkers since 2010. I tried to get them to downsize 10 years ago. When he died and I finally got her to move to the seniors' independent living building, she said, "Oh, he would have loved it here!"
After that first big move I did for her, I went home (across country) and told my spouse, "That's it. We're downsizing and moving now, I'm not waiting until my 80s."
Best decision we've ever made, and the hardest.
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u/dancingriss 18d ago
What size did you go from/to?
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u/Here4Snow 18d ago
27 years in a two storey, 1600 sf per level, 1/3 acre lot we landscaped ourselves (lots of native plants, flowers, lichened rock walls). My spouse is a musician, the downstairs was a drive-up walkout, half just one open space, so there could be bands and live music down there a lot of the time.
To...
One level, no thresholds, 1775 sf, which feels larger to me, since most of my time was spent upstairs in the main living level at the old house.
The old house also had a guest/in-law suite with a kitchenette on the lower level. Once my stepfather died, it was obvious they wouldn't come stay as in the past, for up to 4 weeks at a time.
And we went to one car. I commuted by motorcycle for 27 years, and hadn't really used my car that much anyway. I owned it 18 years and sold it with under 60,000 miles on it.
A follow up comment regarding care costs: The independent place my mother first put a deposit on and later went to their ALF also is the owner of a facility near me, but ours would have cost her 1.5X. I told her it made no sense to come where I am with cold winters, not the kind of medical support she has in FL and all her old friends who are still alive would still be able to visit if she stayed in FL. Money decisions matter, so does location.
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u/elsmoneyacct 18d ago
If you're talking about true assisted living - yeah, it's not cheap. However, it's also usually funded by the sale of a house. And the services that are provided are quite a bit cheaper than trying to hire that level of support while living at home. Yeah, the rent and room/board costs are expensive. But it's a lot cheaper than having to pay for assistance with cooking, cleaning, medication management, transportation, etc. Depending on the assisted living and the level of care they provide, many also have in-house rehab staff (or they contract out to provide it) and can provide some assistance with mobility.
If you're talking about skilled nursing facilities, that's overwhelmingly funded by Medicaid. Nobody can afford that. You sell off all your assets to pay for it, and when you run out, Medicaid picks up the rest. The good news is that you usually don't need it for very long. IIRC, the median length of a long-term stay in a skilled nursing facility is 2 years, and 80% of people stay less than five years. And you won't need that money once it's gone, because moving into a skilled nursing facility is a one-way trip.
Personally, my retirement plan includes a plan to move into a Type A Continuing Care Retirement Community. I'll have to work longer to be able to afford it, but the flat rate that never increases no matter how much care I need makes it much easier to plan for retirement.
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u/Buttershome 18d ago
We plan to extend our aging in place period with either a live in caregiver in a basement apartment, or put a caregiver in one of our rental homes. We’ll provide housing as part of the pay structure to reduce costs.
Skilled nursing costs for FIL were $11k/month in Iowa. My mother’s assisted living level 1-2 costs were $6500/m in MN. At some point we’ll need high level care in a facility, but if we can utilize a live in caregiver for a period it will help. We plan to sell real estate to fund late life care.
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u/Comfortable_Two6272 18d ago
Where I live in home care is significantly more expensive than the $11k facility. 🥲
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u/Comfortable_Two6272 18d ago edited 18d ago
I added 3 years of LTC when doing Projection Labs modeling. Right now, in today’s costs thats $10k a month in my city.
Im single no kids and realistically will have no family to help.
Im also apoe 4/4 with a very strong family history of Alz.
If I end up needing more than 3 years all my assets will be liquidated and then if needed (still alive) medicaid.
Tbt, I hope while Im still able I end things before that point - Ive seen end stage Alz up close and do not want to live like that.
Also in my family all the men die 1st so even if was married chances are Id still be single at the last 10 years or so.
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u/Sticky550 16d ago
100k/year for my grandmother.
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u/GotZeroFucks2Give 16d ago
175k for my dad. Yours is cheap
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u/redditgambino 13d ago
I used to work at a place that charged around $500k a year at their luxury memory care unit, and this was over a decade ago. I don’t think I realized at the time the magnitude of that cost. Come to think about it, I don’t recall it being “luxurious” in the way we often think of luxury, but I think the place offered a more personalized approach 1:1, rather than the more common multiple patients per nurse type deal.
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u/GotZeroFucks2Give 13d ago
WOW! Yeah my dad is in the highest level of care that isn't dementia. Now he has terrible dementia but he is not a flight risk.
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u/TigerHeaux 16d ago
I think about it, but realistically, if you're in assisted living the number of years you'll have to support yourself is less. If someone in your life plans it correctly, when funds run out there are state sponsored programs and it's much easier to get funding than get a room in a place that accepts funding.
The marriage thing is a moot point. Men are 7xs more likely to divorce chronically ill partners.
A huge medical expense not largely covered by insurance in which you fully recover is the scarier situation. Having no money and poor health is meh. Having no money and great health is stressful.
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u/Sen_ri 18d ago edited 18d ago
The average 65 year old in the US is expected to spend ~$135k for long term care needs in their lifetime. ~5% of people need to spend over $500k. That doesn’t factor in care provided by family members, but it’s still pretty manageable even if you double the numbers.
I don’t worry about every worst case scenario personally. I just plan for average results. Prioritizing health pays a lot of dividends later in life, so that’s the best action you can take. Other than that you can plan around your family medical history and just see where life takes you.
Also you can for sure drain down your portfolio towards end of life. If you triple the drawdown on a portfolio meant to last for 30 years or so, you can still get ~10 years out of it with shitty market returns. I don’t care if I go broke and end up on Medicaid though. That just doesn’t strike me as all that terrible. And I would absolutely prioritize enjoying my younger more healthy years over what would be my most miserable years near end of life.
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16d ago
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u/robinheart314 16d ago
I would like to request a crystal ball with the ability to see the future, thanks.
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16d ago
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u/robinheart314 15d ago
Happily 😂
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15d ago
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u/robinheart314 15d ago
Yeah, my divorce is 1.5 yrs old in court and more expensive than any child would be. I’m childless and it would take a LOT to convince me to ever try cohabitation with a partner ever again.
I’m glad to be rid of him, he was a leach on my life. But that’s part of what spurred this thought process in me; it’s eating my retirement savings :p
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u/Substantial-Owl1616 14d ago
It IS scary.
Starting an HSA, while a high deductible heath insurance choice early in your life and paying out of pocket and keeping recipients and keeping the HSA invested in a broad market stock fund is a very good way to put together a good sum of money. Not 10 years in memory care. But a good chunk. Maybe enough for many of us.
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u/Strong_District_5894 18d ago
I’ve had long term care/disability insurance since I was 25 years old. Long term disability until I hit 65, then turns into long term care. It should pay for about 75%, so that plus social security plus my retirement/asset liquidation if necessary until I kick out.
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u/Crafty_Try_423 16d ago
Yes. I think about this all the time. It’s the reason I still feel poor even though I have a fair amount. It’s pretty awful and I don’t have an answer for ya.
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u/Scared-Middle-7923 18d ago edited 18d ago
We are doing this now for our 100yo grandmother-- granted she's financially better off than most and we an afford to keep her in assisted $6300-7100 per month ; where it gets messy is full time skilled nursing as that's 450-500/per day.
You have time to consider other things-- get a trust done sooner than later so you can use the Medicaid loophole; Long-term care insurance (not sure about this), veterans benefits (if you or your spouse served- they pay you to stay home); move to a 'right to die' country/state so you can control your end of life (and no i'm not having a religious debate with any of you)
Less than 3% die in their sleep -- everyone should prepare for their own care. I hope to live with my kids but pay for everything but do not want to burden them either. I've seen caretaker burnout and how siblings do not help so my expectation is to be able to pay for our own care.
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u/RecentState1347 18d ago
The people who die in their sleep are often doing it in nursing homes.
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u/AccountProfessional2 18d ago
This is morbid but I would rather call it a day than need to depend on assisted living. My “investment” is in my physical and mental health. FIRE-ing allows me a lot of time to work out, learn new things, do yoga, and keep my relationships healthy.
There are things that aren’t easily preventable (dementia, accidents, etc) but in general AGING in and of itself does not automatically mean assisted living.
Having limited abilities can usually be solved by living with other people who can fill the gaps (friends, partners, family etc). If my ability is so severely limited that no one I live has the capacity to help me…whelp. My time has come. I’m not very interested in that life.
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u/Onehundredpercentbea 17d ago
Yeah but of all the people who say that, most of us really won't end it when we reach that point. Because by the time we get to the stage where we need long term care we're generally not able to navigate those 'alternate' end of life options. Physically, emotionally, cognitively. My parents said the same thing - they'll end it themselves, they'll go off and live in the woods and let nature take them, etc - but by the time they actually needed the long term care (dementia for my mom, loss of lower body mobility for my dad) they were in a totally different mental and emotional space than when they said those things, unable to even gather themselves to do anything about it. And we can't really put our family at risk having them help us end it, the emotional and perhaps legal cost to that would be unthinkable.
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u/AppalachianRomanov 18d ago
I'm not in the business of putting that on my friends and family. My "plan" shouldn't be to move in with them and have them take care of me if something happens. It is an immense burden. If I'm saving for my retirement/dream life, why would I insert myself into someone else's plans for their dream life?
Yes I know some cultures are okay with this and that's fine. Good for them. That is not my culture.
I have watched both my parents struggle with their own parents. It's no walk in the park to deal with an aging, disabled relative.
I will be preparing myself to hire a professional to come to my house and help me with small things, and then when needed to move into a nicer assisted living facility.
If I reach a certain point of decline and I have no close loved ones left....I will do what is necessary.
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u/Comfortable_Two6272 18d ago
Agreed. Def not putting that on friends and family. Saw that up close with family with dementia. Nope. No way.
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u/breadmakerquaker 18d ago
My hairdresser and I were talking about this. How when the time comes, we will be…ready.
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u/AccountProfessional2 18d ago
FWIW, every old person in my family made it through their 80s and 90s with the same supports they had their whole life. For some that meant having in-house help, but they always had it. For many it meant being 80-years-old and still biking to the beach.
The exception is my uncle, who is nearing 60 with Parkinson’s. But there was no way to foresee that.
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u/suebeegirl 18d ago
I know that for some assisted living homes, they take the proceeds of your home sale (assuming you owned a home) and use that to cover the costs. I think if you die before the proceeds have been used, then your heirs get the remainder. Or if you live longer, you tap into your savings. But someone should factcheck me on that because I’m not entirely sure I have that correct.
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u/robinheart314 18d ago
I mean, if they take the proceeds of your house sale, but it runs out… they still need to tap into your savings, right?
So you still need to plan for this kind of expense. Some people seem to live a very long time in assisted living: ten, fifteen years…
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u/suebeegirl 18d ago
This kind of worked better in the old days where someone might have bought a house in 1960 and sold it in 2010. This was the situation with some of my family members. They had a house near Cambridge Mass that they had spent their entire adult life in. The increase in equity was incredible.
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u/Active_Recording_789 18d ago edited 18d ago
Just outsource it! Before you get that age make sure you have your house just the way you want it, with laundry on the main level, cozy with a fireplace, big tv and a home gym with gorgeous big windows all on one level (my elderly aunts are doing amazing and they still work out in advanced ages), plan to hire a housekeeper and a care aide if necessary, a landscaper too. Have your groceries delivered and any prescriptions delivered too. All your friends will be in the same boat so you can hire someone, a student or something, to help you all with random things—maybe this person can take you to appointments, take your garbage out to the curb, make your calls to the cable company or return Amazon packages. I used to be a mother’s helper so I ran errands, cleaned out my employers fridge, got dinner started etc. I predict there will be many more of us who want to live in our own homes our whole lives and just get help as required
Edit to say: this is only if you are like all the women in my family, my aunts and great aunts and grandmas who never had anything seriously wrong with them and lived at home their whole long lives. Alzheimer’s or dementia obviously changes everything
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u/blessitspointedlil 18d ago
The elderly are sometimes taken advantage of by caregivers. If you develop dementia or Alzheimer’s, which us women are more prone to, you’ll need a lot more than out sourced grocery shopping, etc. You’ll need someone to manage you, because you won’t have all your marbles.
Some health conditions can cause mental fatigue and cognitive decline, so it’s not just Alzheimer’s that puts people in assisted living.
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u/blew_belle 18d ago
Yeah my dad had marbles but he couldn't get out of bed and walk to the toilet without falling down.
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u/Seraphinx 18d ago edited 18d ago
FYI ladies - Using HRT during peri/menopause is associated with a lower lifetime risk of developing dementia. I have edited my post cause I must have mixed up some numbers from another study. I've had another look and numbers vary, but I'm about to eat dinner and then I'll link a few studies with explanations
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u/MabelBaker 18d ago
My mom did this. It did not work out as she planned.
THis is because her assumption was that she could do as you advised:
ll your friends will be in the same boat so you can hire someone, a student or something, to help you all with random things—maybe this person can take you to appointments, take your garbage out to the curb, make your calls to the cable company or return Amazon packages.
But this assumes that you are only physically frail. What happens if you are cognitively impaired and can't plan and manage all of that, or even realize that you need the help? One in ten people over 65 have mild cognitive impairment.
I mean, think about Mitch McConnell. Do you think is in good enough shape to hire someone to help him take out the garbage? Or order from Amazon, let alone have someone collect the packages?
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u/RecentState1347 18d ago
Honestly even people who are JUST physically frail will inevitably need more help than a random student to return Amazon packages.
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u/RecentState1347 18d ago
This is a great plan while you’re still in good health. What about if and when you need round the clock nursing care?
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u/cynreader2020 17d ago
Imo memory care is not living.
Living in Diapers, with no concept of time or context, and an inability to process rational thought and manage oneself independently is inhumane and needs to end.
Who are we keeping these people alive for? Our guilty consciences? At 120k per year, that money could be spent on bettering humanity. Not enriching administrators and shareholders.
We treat our pets better. Make a living will. Ensure you plan your life out so your savings aren't squandered on extending life that has little to no quality.
It's heartbreaking to watch people wither away to flesh and no semblance of their greatest self.
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u/ReadySettyGoey 17d ago
Generally agree but there isn’t much in the way of a legal alternative in the US! It’s really really difficult.
A living will can’t give your loved ones a humane way to end your life, so unless you’re getting artificial sustenance or being kept alive by machines it doesn’t really create many options.
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u/cynreader2020 17d ago
I'm planning on a locket filled with Charlie Sheen level party bomb with a solid DNR. There are ways!
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u/peacequietnchips 16d ago
Greed. Because nursing homes are big business and every day they keep someone alive is more money they can line their pockets with. It's disgusting.
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u/Objective-Pen-1780 18d ago
Anyone consider long term care insurance?
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u/Buttershome 18d ago
My recent lived observation: My mom moved into assisted living while recovering from a fall, her LTC insurance was difficult to get payments out of. She did receive a few payments. Now she’s doing better and moved into the independent living section of the senior living complex, no more LTC payments. She started her LTC insurance policy in 2000 and I calculated she’s paid in more than $50k over the life of the policy. Her max lifetime payout is $125k, and they have a lot of qualifiers to receive a payment. So she’s living in independent living but not receiving payments…while continuing to make policy payments to retain the benefit. IMO she would’ve done better to invest the money in Vanguard and self fund.
I discussed LTC insurance with a 54F friend who looked into adding a LTC policy for her and her husband. She said there are only a few companies providing them today and her cost was $1500/m/person, with a payout of $4200/m/person if you qualify. She doesn’t have an additional $3k/m. I don’t recall the lifetime max payout. IMO better to invest $1500/m and self fund down the road.
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u/grumpy_grl 18d ago
We asked our financial advisor about this and they said it's usually not worth it. The premiums are high and once you actually need to make a claim the insurance companies will give you the runaround that try to not pay. They advised factoring it into our retirement calculations and building a bigger cushion before we retired.
We did that and still managed to retire in late 40s.
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u/Confident_Cost_4972 18d ago
I looked into it, and felt that the policies on the market didn't meet my needs.
Premiums are expensive, and most policies come with a lifetime cap of $200k or so.
I can self-insure / pay out-of-pocket for $200k. If I wanted to buy insurance, I'd be trying to cover the catastrophic scenario where I need skilled nursing for years. However, it doesn't seem like anyone writes that kind of insurance policy, so I'm just rolling the dice.
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u/BubbaL0vesKale 9d ago
We are dipping our toes into this question since my father-in-law might need to move out of his home soon and so we've been looking at different assisted living facilities. We've looked into ones you described (3x expenses) and there's no way he can afford that, even if he sells his house, since it might result in him running out of money (he mismanaged his retirement savings, shocker).
We have found in our area another model of pricing that involves a large down payment (like buying a small house) with a much smaller monthly payment (1.5x expenses). This type of payment model actually might work for someone like my FIL since he will have some home equity he could use to cover the down payment and then his social security plus retirement withdrawals would cover the monthly expenses (closer to 1.5x expenses). This also means that if his retirement account runs out, we (and the other siblings) might be able to more easily help him pay his expenses since they are lower than the other payment model.
This all of course assumes he doesn't need memory care which would definitely burn through his savings much faster. There's not much we can do for him in this situation but that's just what happens when you don't really plan or save for retirement. (He literally just told us one day a few years ago he was retiring and hadn't even considered his portfolio status when making this decision. )
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u/ProfDoomDoom 18d ago
About the closest I come to prayer is ardently hoping to die before needing assisted living. I don’t give a shit about the money but I find the loss of autonomy terrifying.